American Express Membership Rewards - UK Centurion Re-launch

Hi

Spoke to Centurion the other day about the reduction of benefits, diminishing acceptance of the card, and the fee.

It seams that the re-launch that had been scheduled for Q1/Q2 will not take place now until Q3/Q4 and that we will all be "invited" (sound like an opportunity to raise the fee) to apply closer to the time. I was also informed that it will include Airline membership benefits and that we will all be suitable impressed with the new benefits package.

Amex is trying to grow the number of merchants that accept the card and they are achieving this through their various credit card products.

In regards to discounted fees that have been mentioned by other posters, I was informed that "Everyone pays the same and it is not negotiable", you can however use your reward points to pay your membership fee.

I look forward to seeing what they have to offer ( And how much they are going to charge for it).

Great Idea. Reduce benifits at current rate , get some more bennifits and charge them alot more no doubt.

Any one care to mage a guess on Airline Benifits.

Cant ses BA getting involved in this can anyone else ?

It would have to be a UK airline or it doesn't make much sense (though that didn't stop them in Australia offering Malaysia Enrich membership). They already have relationships with Virgin and BMI, so I guess it's likely to be one of these two.

It is possible that BMI would sell Gold memberships to Amex. After all, BMI is the most generous airline in Europe, as far as I know, for comping status from other programmes. And BMI has presumably seen a massive collapse in the number of Gold members after scrapping business class on most routes. Star Alliance Gold may therefore be a possibility.

That said, you can of course get Star Alliance Gold very easily through Lufthansa with their status match promo which runs every 3 years or so, and that status lasts for 3 years ...

This is a bit off topic but do you have additional information regarding this Lufthansa status match? Is it restricted to UK residents?

It is possible that BMI would sell Gold memberships to Amex. After all, BMI is the most generous airline in Europe, as far as I know, for comping status from other programmes. And BMI has presumably seen a massive collapse in the number of Gold members after scrapping business class on most routes. Star Alliance Gold may therefore be a possibility.

That said, you can of course get Star Alliance Gold very easily through Lufthansa with their status match promo which runs every 3 years or so, and that status lasts for 3 years ...

When the re-launch I hope they do what they did in the US as in those on the old rate get to keep it and only new applications pay the higher fee.

This is a bit off topic but do you have additional information regarding this Lufthansa status match? Is it restricted to UK residents?

Star Alliance do a status match for UK residents every 3 years or so. The last time was Spring 2005, so I can't see it being repeated until Spring 2008 at the earliest. Especially as people who took a LH status match in Spring 2005 got status until Spring 2008.

It is possible that BMI would sell Gold memberships to Amex.
This would be just typical - Centurion moving its benefits over to stuff I already have! I already had PC Plat. I (along with anyone else who has a pulse) already had SPG Gold. I already have bmi Gold. OK, it means I could divert those miles for status elsewhere but (for the time being) bmi diamond club is the best game in town with miles plus cash.

Actually, my understanding is that Virgin Atlantic and BA have both been unreceptive to Amex's Centurion approaches.

I am sure that Malaysian will offer Gold Enrich (and they are going to join Skyteam, aren't they?). But, closer to home, I gather that all European Centurion schemes will offer the only elite airline status currently enjoyed by any European Centurions.

As Rolf Harris would say, do you know what it is yet?

It's Alitalia Club Freccia Alata status! Don't mock, at least it gets you Gold treatment with Air France, KLM and Czech as well as lounge access in the USA with Continental, Delta and Northwest.

It's Alitalia Club Freccia Alata status! Don't mock, at least it gets you Gold treatment with Air France, KLM and Czech as well as lounge access in the USA with Continental, Delta and Northwest.
Oh god, to add even further to my misery: it's the elite status I decided wasn't worth having!

Hopefully they will do something about the terrible centurion concierge.

I thought Id give them another try today, called them to book a hotel in copenhagen next weekend, they called me back after an hour to say there was no availabilty due to a nato conferenece.

A quick trip to travelsupermarket.com shows lots of availability in almost any hotel, just booked the Raddisson Royal - no problems at all.

How Centurion conceirge can come back with 'no availabilty' when they are supposed to go out of their way to get things sorted for you is beyond me.

I guess Ill keep booking my own travel in the meantime, while we look at alternatives.

Oh god, to add even further to my misery: it's the elite status I decided wasn't worth having!

:D I did think of you when reading your post, our chat at BRU and then reading the one from DCF

In which countries do Centurion card holders get Alitalia Club Freccia Alata ? (certainly not in France...)

Oh god, to add even further to my misery: it's the elite status I decided wasn't worth having!

In which countries do Centurion card holders get Alitalia Club Freccia Alata ? (certainly not in France...)
Currently? In Italy at least.

DCF seems to be claiming that this will be the status that gets rolled out across Europe though as part of the relaunch.

To me too this is definetely the least useful, matching us up with one of the few airlines that still slump on the verge of bancrupcy and with no operations out of Norway (And even if they did, I'd probably not fly them)... :confused: BMI woul not do the European residents any good, as it's restricted to UK residents only.
BA and LH would be excellent, and I'd settle for any airline that could get med a *Alliance Gold.
And I'm definetely wondering about the new fees, being a Charter member.
My two cents (or ,02 NOK) worth.

:confused: BMI woul not do the European residents any good, as it's restricted to UK residents only.No, it's not. And even if it were, it's a UK card we're discussing. ;)

I'd settle for any airline that could get med a *Alliance Gold.Er, like bmi?

No, it's not. And even if it were, it's a UK card we're discussing. ;)

Er, like bmi?


I'm aware of that, and it's a UK card I'm holding at present, being one of the originally invited May 1999.
But: I'm Norwegian with a Norwegian address, and therefore the beauraucracy of both BMI and BA prevent me from joining BMI or holding the BA/Amex card.. :(

I'm Norwegian with a Norwegian address, and therefore the beauraucracy of both BMI and BA prevent me from joining BMI or holding the BA/Amex card.. :(We Brits can sympathise. We look at the generally far superior offers available to North American members of FF and frequent guest schemes. BUT you can if you wish benefit from lower status earning levels with BA than the Brits.

The consensus is that BA gold will not be available with this card, though speculation suggests that BD gold may be. If you have a UK AmEx card, perhaps they will be able to make arrangements with BD for you?

We'll just have to see what's in the relaunch.

I called the insurance team at Amex yesterday to ask about the improved Worldwide CDW cover. The guy in the team indicated to me that he could not believe how the idiots at Amex HQ would improve the Platinum offering to make it better than Centurion. I have two trips in the next month, one to the Caribbean where car hire insurance is traditionally expensive - this simple change actually will cost me in the region of $100 over the next month. I know - not a lot, but it is making me consider whether centurion is the card I need or whether I should go back to Plat.

Sweet lord, why would we want BMI Gold?

BMI is in a right old state, it is a LCC as far as I am concerned now. And why would a Centurion cardholder want to travel on them, its not like we have crap status at a low-rank hotel chain is it? Oh hold on, yes we do.

The relaunch of Platinum will be an interesting one - the benefits do look very good and a no brainer in regards to the fee. I think that some people will drop back to Platinum and get a lot out of it. In regards to doing Platinum first, well what did you expect? Common sense and logic need not apply. The Centurion agents make it very clear at how dismayed they are themselves at the decision - they are like mushrooms, fed crap and kept in the dark. Us peeps here at FT probably know more than most of the agents about the changes.

I just wish that AmEx actually grabbed a representative group of Centurion cardholders from each market, and asked them for their candid feedback instead of trying to second guess.

My only hope is that given the sterling job that has been done on Platinum refresh, that Centurion refresh is just as good or better. The price increase for Platinum was 9%, so whats the odds that the increase for Centurion will be in excess of that?

Thanks,
Richard

The guy in the team indicated to me that he could not believe how the idiots at Amex HQ would improve the Platinum offering to make it better than Centurion.

If you noticed my post a couple of days ago, they've sent me a letter confirming that, as a Centurion, I get the same worldwide cover.

Sweet lord, why would we want BMI Gold?

BMI is in a right old state, it is a LCC as far as I am concerned now. And why would a Centurion cardholder want to travel on them

I think purely the Star Alliance Gold would be valuable, whoever it is issued by. Sure the consensus is you get treated better by your home airline within the alliance but *Gold is valuable in it's own right. I guess the only issue and it is a big one is if bmi drop out of Star Alliance in which case bmi Gold becomes a VS Clubhouse access card, oh but you get that with Centurion. :) Yep bmi Gold would be useless!

Oh and not travelling on them doesn't just go for Centurion members. I don't think anybody would want to :D

Fair point about *A Gold, but I find the market is so overcrowded with *A Gold's. The huge status match promos don't help, one reason why I am glad BA and VS don't do this. There is merit in doing status matching, but with some documented evidence - not doing it as a free for all. Each of the *A airlines knows the score, and will rightly so look after its own first.

I think a discount card for EasyJet would be better recieved than BMI status. How to ruin a good airline in a small amount of time.

So who wants to try and second guess what the new 'revatilised' Centurion will look like?

- I would hope that SPG Plat makes a return.
- The insurance needs to at least meet or exceed the new Platinum levels
- Better car status, instead of Hertz #1 Club Gold?
- Some staff training, so people actually pay attention to what you are asking them?
- Titanium Card
- Gift each year for the primary member like they do in Asia
- Some decent airline status (BA Silver would be nice, but dreaming I know!)
- A decent folder to store all your Centurion materials in, which is updated each year (proactively) with the relevant guides for FHR and SLH.
- Enhanced MR earn rate
- Shutdown the Cneturion UK website, and have a rethink? Perhaps one where every page doesn't ask you to call in for more info!
- Maybe using some of the fees to get some decent IT staff in that can fix Centurion issues 24/7, instead of making me wait nearly 24 hours to cancel my own lost card (happened this weekend).
- Access to the other Centurion Concierges when in their markets, so you can get local knowledge.


ANy other suggestions, controversial ones willingly accepted!

Thanks,
Richard

If you noticed my post a couple of days ago, they've sent me a letter confirming that, as a Centurion, I get the same worldwide cover.

Which I asked for and they said there was absolutely no way they could do it ...

Fair point about *A Gold, but I find the market is so overcrowded with *A Gold's. The huge status match promos don't help, one reason why I am glad BA and VS don't do this. There is merit in doing status matching, but with some documented evidence - not doing it as a free for all. Each of the *A airlines knows the score, and will rightly so look after its own first.

I think a discount card for EasyJet would be better recieved than BMI status. How to ruin a good airline in a small amount of time.

So who wants to try and second guess what the new 'revatilised' Centurion will look like?

- I would hope that SPG Plat makes a return.
- The insurance needs to at least meet or exceed the new Platinum levels
- Better car status, instead of Hertz #1 Club Gold?
- Some staff training, so people actually pay attention to what you are asking them?
- Titanium Card
- Gift each year for the primary member like they do in Asia
- Some decent airline status (BA Silver would be nice, but dreaming I know!)
- A decent folder to store all your Centurion materials in, which is updated each year (proactively) with the relevant guides for FHR and SLH.
- Enhanced MR earn rate
- Shutdown the Cneturion UK website, and have a rethink? Perhaps one where every page doesn't ask you to call in for more info!
- Maybe using some of the fees to get some decent IT staff in that can fix Centurion issues 24/7, instead of making me wait nearly 24 hours to cancel my own lost card (happened this weekend).
- Access to the other Centurion Concierges when in their markets, so you can get local knowledge.


ANy other suggestions, controversial ones willingly accepted!

Thanks,
Richard

I'd like to see the daily emails RE: events/movie premieres/etc return

Sweet lord, why would we want BMI Gold?


Time for quick reality check. No way will BA give out any sort of status to Centurions - that would be unheard of.

After One World, Star Alliance is easily the most useful airline alliance for someone living in the UK because of a) BMI's membership and b) LH's global footprint for anyone happy to hub via Frankfurt. And we already know from previous promotions that Star Alliance is happy to give out status to UK residents in an attempt to win custom from BA.

BMI Gold for UK Centurions is therefore a sensible proposition. The bigger problem comes with Centurion outside the UK, since it is unlikely that SAS, Austrian or LH / Swiss would sanction the issuance of free *A Gold cards in Scandinavia, Austria, Germany or Switzerland. Flying Poo may be an alternative here.

If you noticed my post a couple of days ago, they've sent me a letter confirming that, as a Centurion, I get the same worldwide cover.

I guess you got a good agent, I just called them and they said they could not match the platinum cover yet, Centurion is due to be refreshed, but they could not confirm any dates.

I called them as well, and they matched the platinum cover. Not that it mattered though...

After this call I spoke to travel about a different issue, and once again the service was way below what I expected. The service I get from Amex corporate travel is much better (still not great though).

Most of my experiences with the concierge service have been pretty weak as well. Only on a few occasions have they managed to get me into restaurants etc, they fail more often than tey succeed. Their knowledge of restaurants, bars etc. outside of London is non-exist. When I've called them up from places like New York to get advice on new and interesting restaurants or bars they've simply used Google. Never have they gotten in touch with a concierge in the US for help, although I have asked them to.

I then asked to speak to the cancellation department who confirmed that a relaunch is due, but it will not happen in 2006 for sure. Neither could they confirm any of the new benefits. With this in mind, I decided to cancel the card, there really isn't anything that justifies charging £650 for a card. I'll take my spend elsewhere.

I decided to not downgrade to plat and also cancelled my BA Amex.

Regarding the relaunch, I think BMI Gold is likely, as I already have *Gold this is pretty useless to me though. I really can't see what they could add to the benefits that would justify the fee. I would be very surprised if the fee doesn't double as well.

So, the only question now is how I'm going to spend the MR points and what card to replace it with. Definitely won't be another amex.

/d

Regarding the US Concierge/PTS/CTS - PTS UK once told me that specifically US PTS does not want to deal with customers from other parts of the world. Other PTSs/CTSs will help other customers as well and that could be one reason why UK didn't contact US colleagues.

Maybe you would be satisfied with Platinum card - I have been quite satisfied with CS/PTS/Concierge UK.

dogsknob:

Did AX representatives in the card/cancellation department in any way try to offer you any incentive/offer for you to maintain the card/accounts?

dogsknob,

You must have had some really useless agents, as to compare it like that to AmEx Corp is unreal. My experience of the Corp AmEx team, in particular the travel team that I have to use due to company policy is not one that be conveyed without the use of profanity. A GCSE Geography student would do better than most of their agents. They simply cannot be bothered to do anything remotely useful - even the most simplest things like a flight to Paris from LHR, oh I've found one here for 450 pounds, shall I book that? When asked if they think that kind of money is right for an economy flight booked weeks in advance, they won't answer. Just like when I ask them if they would personally pay that. Morons.

To be brutually honest, I think the actions you did will be the only way to show AmEx that all is not well, and you can't treat customers with your top ultra-premium product like second class citizens.

Thanks,
Richard

When I've called them up from places like New York to get advice on new and interesting restaurants or bars they've simply used Google. Never have they gotten in touch with a concierge in the US for help, although I have asked them to.

The one time I have contacted them from the US they did contact the US concierge service and got some great recommendations and guest list access in San Francisco.

Fair point about *A Gold, but I find the market is so overcrowded with *A Gold's. The huge status match promos don't help, one reason why I am glad BA and VS don't do this. There is merit in doing status matching, but with some documented evidence - not doing it as a free for all. Each of the *A airlines knows the score, and will rightly so look after its own first.

I think a discount card for EasyJet would be better recieved than BMI status. How to ruin a good airline in a small amount of time.


Well, I agree with you about bmi, sadly, however, to be useful to UK customers, any airline membership needs to offer either OW Sapphire or * Gold. For *G I'd think that bmi would be the best bet, since they'd gladly sell their own grandmothers for a bit of extra revenue at the moment. I don't think BA would be willing to allow Amex to publicise giving out BA Sliver, as it would cause too much resentment, but OW Sapphire membership in, say, IB/EI/AY or even QF would, I guess, be a possible. Even Plat level with SkyTeam would be pretty useless in the UK, and should not really be in the picture. For *G, my dream would be LH (for the open doors lounge access) but I doubt it somehow...

I can see VS would be attractive to some, but for my money, unless the status gives you lounge access for domestic and EU flights, its not that attractive, and VS doesn't.



So who wants to try and second guess what the new 'revatilised' Centurion will look like?

- I would hope that SPG Plat makes a return.
- The insurance needs to at least meet or exceed the new Platinum levels
- Better car status, instead of Hertz #1 Club Gold?
- Some staff training, so people actually pay attention to what you are asking them?
- Titanium Card
- Gift each year for the primary member like they do in Asia
- Some decent airline status (BA Silver would be nice, but dreaming I know!)
- A decent folder to store all your Centurion materials in, which is updated each year (proactively) with the relevant guides for FHR and SLH.
- Enhanced MR earn rate
- Shutdown the Cneturion UK website, and have a rethink? Perhaps one where every page doesn't ask you to call in for more info!
- Maybe using some of the fees to get some decent IT staff in that can fix Centurion issues 24/7, instead of making me wait nearly 24 hours to cancel my own lost card (happened this weekend).
- Access to the other Centurion Concierges when in their markets, so you can get local knowledge.


ANy other suggestions, controversial ones willingly accepted!

Thanks,
Richard

I agree with a lot of your points, here are my thoughts (whilst I can still express them!):

SPG Plat: Definitely the worst decision ever made in the UK - I can accept that it may not have been helping SPG much on a global scale, but given that there are so few SPG hotels in the UK, giving plat status to UK members must, I'm sure, have been increasing paid bookings from Cents. Sadly, I don't think this will be reversed until after the pain has been felt by both Amex (cancelled cards) and SPG. I think they would be well advised to negotiate a reduced qualification level for UK Centurions as a "soft landing" (perhaps 10S/20N?).

Insurance: Agreed - it needs to match or (preferably) exceed the new Plat. package - Removing the need to buy on the card (and thus use no discounts etc.) to get the travel inconvenience is good, so is killing the excess. I think they should go further and offer optional cover on award tickets (be a good way to continue to get the extra GBP15 or so I pay for excess reduction). Over the years the cover level has been eroded from what it was (the Amex Premium annual package) when Cent. launched. I used to be covered for a ticket in the class I was travelling in, up to GBP 5K if I had to be replaced or repatriated. Now I think it's around 750 - Sure I'm going to get a First class ticket for that......

Car Status: Agree, Club 1 Gold has been a joke for me! I've not seen a single benefit from it in 7 years (I even ran a check once to confirm that they had the Cent. PC code on my Hertz profile). If they stay with Hertz it needs to be Presidents' Circle, or Equivalent with Avis or National. they also need to actually tell the CTS about the CDW insurance, since all the rates they offer me are GBP all inclusive with a ton of insurance I don't need

Titanium Card: Would be nice, but not if it doubles the fee!!

Gifts/Folders etc: Well, I'm not that fussed, though I agree that a concerted plan to get updated programme details out every year would be good, rather than the pointless drip-feed of "puff pieces" in the Centurion Mag.

Enhanced MR Rate: Agree, I pay (thanks to the heads up on FT last year!) for the MR+ package, but I think it should be free for Centurions.

Training: Agreed - It's been up and down over the years, and I really don't understand why they cannot seem to keep good people, and why they are willing to inflict obviously inept staff on "their best customers".

Access to Other CTS/CCs: Oh YEAH! Why can't I ring the US CTS when I'm in the US. Apart from the stupidity of it, think how much they would save on reverse-charge calls?!

Better IT/WWW sites: I'm sure they have some projects on the way to address these......

Other thoughts:

A bit more for non-London Centurions perhaps? I realise that there may be a big cluster around London, but over 95% of the events/offers are in the smoke, and I'm sure that the demographic isn't that skewed!!

I agree that PC Plat is no replacement for SPG Plat, and they should at least arrange IC Ambassador status as well (surely they don't think that we're more likely to stay at a Holiday Inn than an IC?!).

How about a web booking site we can use? I'd happily book my "simple" flights/hotels on an Amex WWW site as long as I knew that I would get all of my Centurion bennies, and that I was confident I could ring the CTS to fix any problems or do any changes. Surely this would save them money?! (Note for those who don't know: UK cardholders are banned from booking on the amex travel web site, which is US-based).

More Finanical offers? Free foreign exchange used to be a "semi-published" benefit for Plat/Cent but has been all but disavowed (They closed my local Amex office last year, but they used to offer this to me, even though CTS have started saying it is not a benefit). Access to Amex Private Banking was part of the launch fanfare for Centurion (I was one of the first 1000 too) but I haven't heard a peep about it for ages! The financial/lifestyle benefits of my HSBC account are arguably better than my Amex Centurion ??

If Plat. Supps. get PP membership now as well, where is the differentiation? I think offering PP to all supps. is probably a bit much, but adding the opportunity to take a guest in free would be a good extra benefit.

Those are my thoughts, anyway, I'll ask Willard what he thinks tommorow!

Ken.

Willard the Bear (http://www.willardbear.com/) - I'll tell you now m8! I want a supplimentary Centurion Card issued in the name of "WILLARD T. BEAR" that's what I want!

dogsknob:

Did AX representatives in the card/cancellation department in any way try to offer you any incentive/offer for you to maintain the card/accounts?

Nothing. But to be fair I've not spent anything on the card for the last year as I find the occasional reaction I get when showing the card quite embarrassing to be honest. I do however spend in excess of £15k per month on my BA amex though. I don't think the centurion people can see this spend, so I doubt they were going to fight to keep me.

/d

I do however spend in excess of £15k per month on my BA amex though. I don't think the centurion people can see this spend, so I doubt they were going to fight to keep me.
I am pretty sure that's true. The monthly spend on my personal Centurion card is reguarly three to four times the total credit limit on my Amex credit card; you'd think they'd be trying to entice me to spend on a (presumably more profitable) revolving credit line by giving me a limit in line with my charge card spending.

Isn't the max credit line 20 or 25k for the AmEx Credit card products in the UK?

Thanks,
Richard

Isn't the max credit line 20 or 25k for the AmEx Credit card products in the UK?

Don't think so. I have a credit limit far in excess of that for my BA Amex.

SPG Plat: Definitely the worst decision ever made in the UK

What about "peace in our time"? ;)