MilesBuzz! - Best Frequent Flyer Prorgram out of LA?

Moving to LA soon who do you reckon is best FF program out of LAX?

Currently SE on NW and travel semi-frequentely. Probably about 12 domestic flights (MIA, BOS, ATL, ORD) About 3-6 Transatlantic flights (AMS, LON, MIL) 1-2 Transpacific flights (AKL, SYD, MEL). I am keen on Elite status for domestic upgrades and elite bonus miles and accordingly I would like to concentrate the mileage in one program if possible.

Moving to LA soon who do you reckon is best FF program out of LAX?

Currently SE on NW and travel semi-frequentely. Probably about 12 domestic flights (MIA, BOS, ATL, ORD) About 3-6 Transatlantic flights (AMS, LON, MIL) 1-2 Transpacific flights (AKL, SYD, MEL). I am keen on Elite status for domestic upgrades and elite bonus miles and accordingly I would like to concentrate the mileage in one program if possible.
First of all, NW out of LA to the rest of the US is really weak (no non-stop to anywhere you mention, always going through MSP or MEM or DTW).

What you didn't explain is what class you buy for Transatlantic and Transpacific and whether you need to upgrade there. If you fly the class you buy there, AA is in the running through oneworld partner QF for those AU/NZ bound flights. If you need to upgrade with miles, that's out because Transpacific AA only flies to Japan/China/India on its own metal (NRT straight from L A, the others from other hub cities), and you can't upgrade on QF with AA miles. In that case, I would say you'd want to look at UA, since it flies nonstop on its own metal to SYD.

Both AA and UA should be fine for your domestic flights, and both would be reasonable for Europe though in each case you might need a partner shorthop at the Europe end to someplace like AMS, since AMS is an entrenched NW/KLM hub that most other majors don't touch from the US.

(If AA, you'd use Alaska credited to AA for flights up and down the west coast, if you needed to do any of those.)

Upgrades and such work differently in each airline. Neither AA nor UA has "automatic free upgrades" for elites (at least, not until top elite at 100k a year) the way NW does. Instead you use things called "stickers" (even though they're electronic) for domestic upgrades (you earn a certain amount, you can buy more). AA allows you mileage upgrades from almost any fare (except occasionally the very deepest sale fares), but for international you have to use a $250 copay each way (unless you're paying full fare). UA doesn't require the copay but only allows mileage upgrades internationally from the few highest coach fares, so you have to start by paying about $500 roundtrip over the cheaper fare before you qualify for upgrades. So on average that's about a wash.

AA doesn't do status match; instead they have a Challenge where you get your status quickly by flying enough in 90 days to earn 5k points for Gold or 10k points for Platinum. (You can't challenge or match to the highest level, especially since at NW the highest level is 75k but at AA it's 100k a year.) I'm not as familiar with how UA handles this.

First of all, NW out of LA to the rest of the US is really weak (no non-stop to anywhere you mention, always going through MSP or MEM or DTW).

What you didn't explain is what class you buy for Transatlantic and Transpacific and whether you need to upgrade there. If you fly the class you buy there, AA is in the running through oneworld partner QF for those AU/NZ bound flights. If you need to upgrade with miles, that's out because Transpacific AA only flies to Japan/China/India on its own metal (NRT straight from L A, the others from other hub cities), and you can't upgrade on QF with AA miles. In that case, I would say you'd want to look at UA, since it flies nonstop on its own metal to SYD.



Thanks and apologies for the omission. I will mostly fly Business as I do now, however I do fly coach to Europe(or very selectively) when I go there for leisure as from my current location (JFK/BOS) 6 hours is no problem... infact with all the in flight entertaining gizmos these days I look forward to the ride... However from LA is a different story and I dont know if I will be able to handle the long haul(misses usually travels with small dog etc.). Case in point a couple of weeks ago we did BOS-JFK-PPT-LAX-BOS. JFK-PPT in J was great on TN3 and it went by smoothly albeit 13 hours.(only 3 other pax in J... 20% load in coach... should have kept my dough!) On the way back PPT-LAX, which is 8 hours and it had roughly 40% load in coach, misses and I had our own row with two seats and it went smoothly again and still happy didnt drop another g... so the extra 4-6 hours on the long -haul i've found to affect me the most.

I moved to LA 7 months ago and have NW Gold for hte past 3 years living out of New Orleans....flying NW is harder, less flights (though 3 redeyes) and almost all connect in MSP MEM or DTW. Hard to get upgrades because of the number of elites and limited flights. The WC is old but otherwise Terminal 2 is easy to use and few wait times. However flights out to AMS (on KLM), Hawaii, NRT daily is nice. Also AF flies out of Term 2 to PPT and CDG. However no easy upgrades on international flights for NW elite.

I occationally fly CO and DL which is ok. Makes it more flexible though you lose some benefits (eg 50% EQM on cheap CO flights and no upgrades on DL)

I'm thinking of jumping ship next year to AA or UA. Just wish they had a free domestic upgrade scheme.

Not sure what I'll do....

Thanks and apologies for the omission. I will mostly fly Business as I do now, however I do fly coach to Europe(or very selectively) when I go there for leisure as from my current location (JFK/BOS) 6 hours is no problem... infact with all the in flight entertaining gizmos these days I look forward to the ride... However from LA is a different story and I dont know if I will be able to handle the long haul(misses usually travels with small dog etc.). Case in point a couple of weeks ago we did BOS-JFK-PPT-LAX-BOS. JFK-PPT in J was great on TN3 and it went by smoothly albeit 13 hours.(only 3 other pax in J... 20% load in coach... should have kept my dough!) On the way back PPT-LAX, which is 8 hours and it had roughly 40% load in coach, misses and I had our own row with two seats and it went smoothly again and still happy didnt drop another g... so the extra 4-6 hours on the long -haul i've found to affect me the most.
Well, in that case I would suggest you narrow it to AA and UA and then look at both those in detail. Each has its advantages. With AA there is lifetime gold for 1MM from ALL sources and lifetime platinum for 2MM from ALL sources. (Whatever lifetime status UA has, in contrast, is only based on actual flying miles.) AA is regarded by many as having the best FF program overall.

OTOH, UA has Economy Plus (while AA has ripped out MRTC), tho that only affects you if you fly economy AND can't get an exit row seat (on AA all elites can reserve exit row seats at the time of booking online, I'm not sure how exit row works on UA).

UA has a good network in the west, while AA relies on (full EQM earning) partner Alaska for much of the west.

To some destinations, UA only flies TED. AA has no cheapo subbrand. (Tho of course both fly RJs to certain destinations.)

Etc.

Moving to LA soon who do you reckon is best FF program out of LAX?

Currently SE on NW and travel semi-frequentely. Probably about 12 domestic flights (MIA, BOS, ATL, ORD) About 3-6 Transatlantic flights (AMS, LON, MIL) 1-2 Transpacific flights (AKL, SYD, MEL). I am keen on Elite status for domestic upgrades and elite bonus miles and accordingly I would like to concentrate the mileage in one program if possible.

What are your vacation habits? Domestic or International?

I agree that your best choice is either UA or AA. The previous posts offer good comparisons of the trade-offs between the two. It looks like you accumulate enough elite qualitying miles/points (100,000 per year, though bear in mind that for business class you often accrue 1.5 per mile of travel, so you don't actually need 100,000 flight miles to quality) to make top status (1K for UA, Executive Platinum for AA) on whichever airline you choose, so I'll add a some factors based on that assumption. I'm new to AA's EP status myself, so I'll indicate where my info for that is not as certain.

1. As a UA 1K you get 6 systemwide upgrades per year that can be used anywhere it flies around the world, that generally require lower fare classes to use than mileage upgrades, and that can be used (assuming seat availability) at the time you ticket; as an AA EP you get 8.
2. On the other hand, as a 1K you get 2 "confirmed regional" (i.e., domestic) upgrades whenever you fly 10,000 miles per quarter on UA metal, for a total of up to 8 per year. Again, you can use these at time of ticketing, so you don't have to wait until 100 hours before the flight to find out. You also can use these to upgrade other folks (such as your wife) if they are flying alone on UA or on a separate record locator than you. If this other passenger has a different last name, this process can be a hassle, but still can be done.
3. On yet another hand, I believe AA has unlimited domestic upgrades a la NW. I'm not sure that this is quite the advantage over UA that some see it to be. Between the confirmed regional upgrades and the fact that you accumulate a fair amount of what are called 500-mile upgrades through UA as you go along, which work in a manner similar to AA/NW ulimited upgrades in that you can use them to request and get upgrades (if seat available) 100 hours before the flight, a lot of domestic travel can be upgraded on UA. I don't know if you'd accrue enough 500-milers to get you upgrades on all UA flights, but you can try the UA website or the UA mileage plus service desk to get the details on the accrual rates for these. Anyway, if you don't clear an upgrade you at least get E+ seating on UA and, when the planes are not full, UA tries to block out the middle seats next to elite flyers in E+ cabins.
4. UA has the nice feature for 1Ks that allow you to change or cancel award travel without any penalty fee. I don't believe that AA has this.
5. I believe that UA offers not-stop flights from LA to London and possibly other European destinations, whereas with AA you have to connect.
6. While for some routes UA has economy-only Ted flights, so no upgrade is available, for some regional jets it has installed first class and E+ seats, making those routes nicer.
7. At least for One World partner Cathay Pacific and I believe for other major partners, AA has the very nice feature that you accrue bonus miles and elite qualifying miles at the same rate as if you were flying AA metal itself. With UA, this is limited to Lufthansa transatlantic flights. On the other hand, be aware of the fact that the nature of AA's partnership with BA is that you can't accrue or cash in AA miles for awards on BA translantic flights (and vice versa).
8. My limited experience with AA's EP line so far is that the reps know more and go out of their way more to be helpful than those at UA's 1K line, who are more hit and miss.
9. I believe the consensus is that UA planes, seats, and IFE are generally better than those of AA, but that AA food is better. I think service is a wash.
10. From LA to JFK UA exclusively uses great "premium service" planes, with all E+ in economy and extremely roomy C and F seats, with the C as good or better than what UA employs in international C flies. I don't know how AA compares with this on the same route.
11. Again, in my limited experience AA often has better award availability for international and Hawaii travel (though UA is not bad, especially if you plan ahead or are flexible enough), but the same itineraries on UA generally cost you fewer miles--perhaps 15K miles less per round-trip in business.
12. While I've called Ik and EP "top status" based on mileage criteria, in fact UA has an even higher status for very high revenue passengers. I believe AA is introducing something like this also, though perhaps not in as formal a manner. Gettin back to my point #8 above, so far it seems that in terms of how you're treated EP is still seen by AA as more truly top status than 1K is for UA, though I don't really have any problems with UA's treatment of me except for the more erratic 1K phone reps.
13. UA has the worst website in the world. Well, I'm exagerating, but not too much.
14. A nice perk of AA EP status is that it gets you entry to One World partners' first class lounges regardless of what class you fly.

Hope this helps!

What are your vacation habits? Domestic or International?
100% international

100% international

UA or AA then are your best bets, as suggested above.

For you, IMO UA is going to be preferable. As an elite, you'll have access to the Economy Plus section which AA doesn't have. UA can't get you to Europe nonstop from LAX but then again, neither can AA unless you're going to LHR. I believe with UA you CAN upgrade on LH, so that'd be another plus when going to Europe. You could go with LH.

For you, IMO UA is going to be preferable. As an elite, you'll have access to the Economy Plus section which AA doesn't have. UA can't get you to Europe nonstop from LAX but then again, neither can AA unless you're going to LHR. I believe with UA you CAN upgrade on LH, so that'd be another plus when going to Europe. You could go with LH.

If I recall AA won't get points when partnered with BA for flights to the UK.

To follow up on the above couple of posts, you can use UA systemwides to upgrade on LH, but it is a cumbersome procedure and might even be limited to being confirmed 24 hours or less beforehand. The Star Alliance is starting to do cross-upgrades between member airlines, but AFAIK these cost a lot of miles.

It's correct that AA and BA don't accrue miles or provide awards for each other's flights across the Atlantic.

If I recall AA won't get points when partnered with BA for flights to the UK.
Specifically, you won't on each other's flights between the US and UK, except for codeshares (AA codeshares a flight to MAN that's on BA metal and you do earn on that).

AA has its own nonstops LAX-LHR tho, and at roughly the same times of day as BA, and BA doesn't fly to anywhere nonstop from LAX other than LHR, so from the standpoint of LA, this is totally duplicate. So as long as you're aware of it, it's not that likely to affect you from LAX (as it might from some other cities where BA has a nonstop to LHR but AA doesn't).

Comparing nonstops to Europe from LAX, the only difference I see is Germany codeshares (UA on Lufthansa). If you are truly able to upgrade on Lufthansa, that could be an advantage. If that's harder to upgrade than AA or UA's own metal to LHR, then that returns to a wash.

Keep in mind that if you can't effectively upgrade on partner metal WTIHIN Europe, then nonstops from LAX may not be what you always want for vacation. For example, seasonally AA can get you 1-stop all the way to Rome, but if you fly to LHR you'll have to take a partner (in economy) for the rest of the way across Europe.

Specifically, you won't on each other's flights between the US and UK, except for codeshares (AA codeshares a flight to MAN that's on BA metal and you do earn on that).

AA has its own nonstops LAX-LHR tho, and at roughly the same times of day as BA, and BA doesn't fly to anywhere nonstop from LAX other than LHR, so from the standpoint of LA, this is totally duplicate. So as long as you're aware of it, it's not that likely to affect you from LAX (as it might from some other cities where BA has a nonstop to LHR but AA doesn't).

Comparing nonstops to Europe from LAX, the only difference I see is Germany codeshares (UA on Lufthansa). If you are truly able to upgrade on Lufthansa, that could be an advantage. If that's harder to upgrade than AA or UA's own metal to LHR, then that returns to a wash.

Keep in mind that if you can't effectively upgrade on partner metal WTIHIN Europe, then nonstops from LAX may not be what you always want for vacation. For example, seasonally AA can get you 1-stop all the way to Rome, but if you fly to LHR you'll have to take a partner (in economy) for the rest of the way across Europe.

Hmmm. Good info for the OP. Vacation-wise I would think 1-stop to Europe would be the norm, with intra-Europe travel done by rail. At least that's what I would do, though OP's preference may of course be different.

M8

What a welath of information...
So far Im leaning towards AA because:
1)i have about 300K miles on AA (PTD) abut 20k live miles and I want to get to 1mm as fast as possible and all sources is a big different than actual miles flown
2)for "my" European travel a connection is a must (unless when i go to LON) so whether im connecting in the US or abroad it doesnt matter.
3)AA has good caribbean reach which I use every now and then
4)AA and UA are both great but they each have their pro's and cons, which in a sense washes itself out.
5)My Domestic travel is always upfront so the e+ thing (which i have no idea what it is) doesnt make a difference for me.
6)The BA/AA agreement doesnt affect me
7)I fly to AMS and KLM has a direct flight from LAX... good for my NW account... no reason to completely shut it down but i will if im able to get AA elite.. BTW will AA match NW SE?
8)Going to HKG on CX in F soon as those miles will go well with AA...
9)AA i can redeem on TN
10)AA has also a good south america (GRU) route and occasionally get down there.
11)I heard the consensus that AA has the best FF program... (have no idea whether this is true or not
12)Benn AAdvantage member since 9/16/1996 (dont know if it helps or hurts...)

Since the BA/AA doesn't effect you, I would say you have good plan ^

M8

AA has the very nice feature that you accrue bonus miles and elite qualifying miles at the same rate as if you were flying AA metal itself. With UA, this is limited to Lufthansa transatlantic flights.

UA gives you bonus miles with US as well, as if you were flying their own metal. I'm not 100% certain about EQM's. I know that you at least get 100% of miles flown on US as EQM's.

Both AA and UA should be fine for your domestic flights, and both would be reasonable for Europe though in each case you might need a partner shorthop at the Europe end to someplace like AMS, since AMS is an entrenched NW/KLM hub that most other majors don't touch from the US.

There is a non-stop UA flight from IAD to AMS, so a domestic connection may do the trick too.

Comparing nonstops to Europe from LAX, the only difference I see is Germany codeshares (UA on Lufthansa). If you are truly able to upgrade on Lufthansa, that could be an advantage. If that's harder to upgrade than AA or UA's own metal to LHR, then that returns to a wash.

AFAIK, the LH upgrade thing is simply "academic" and "theoretical". It is not possible on lower economy fares such as W, and you will not know if an upgrade is available up to 24 hours before the flight. So, one will need to buy a higher fare, gambling that the upgrade will be available on the day of the flight.

I'm sure there are a number of astute FT'er who successfully do this from time to time, but this wouldn't be something you would want to count on.

7)I fly to AMS and KLM has a direct flight from LAX... good for my NW account... no reason to completely shut it down but i will if im able to get AA elite.. BTW will AA match NW SE?

Perhaps no reason to ever shut down your NW account (as long as NW continues, at least :) ), since there's no way to transfer out of NW, and it's easy to use an iDine a year or a WorldPerks Mall purchase a year or such to keep your NW miles alive. (I presume you thus mean dropping out of NW elite.) And NW miles could be useful if you ever decide to vacation (or to get cheap high-quality surgery?) in Thailand, as only NW and UA fly to Thailand on their own metal (and thus allow for upgrades).

AA doesn't typically "match", but does something different instead called a "challenge". (There's a Sticky at the top of the AAdvantage forum all about challenges.) Basically, when you have no status yet, you can sign up to earn 5k points for Gold or 10k points in Platinum over just 90 days, starting on the 1st or 15th of a month. (Note, points are not the same as miles, you earn somewhat less points than miles on cheapo fares, somewhat more points than miles on upper class fares.) I'm not sure if outright parnter flights apply, or only AA flight numbers, or only AA metal. (I did mine on AA metal, one RT flight to Europe in a "lightly discounted" class from LAX was all it took for a Plat Challenge.)

I think ThunderRoad provides a very comprehensive summary. Some additional thoughts:

(1) If you always buy domestic F (doesn't sound like that if you are looking for upgrades) then it is kind of a wash. However, if you can't buy F domestic or international tix and may occasionally get stuck in coach, United's E+ will be more comfortable than AA; however, on AA any elite can pre-reserve exit row seats (on UA, only 1P and above) so with sufficient advance notice you can assure yourself of more comfort. If you tend to change plans at last minute, you may get shut out of E+ as the seats tend to fill up.

(2) Upgrade stickers are cheaper on AA ($30/500 mi) vs. UA ($50/500mi), and AA's do not expire (nor require a minimum purchase). Personally having held low-elite status on UA and AA I found that upgrades clear more often on AA than UA as there are so many UA elites on the West Coast. But YMMV.

(3) My top priority is usually to get where I am going as quick as possible, preferably on non-stops. From LAX, AA has the most nonstops to MIA and I think a fair # to BOS. For UA, you may have to connect to MIA. Both have decent service to ORD.

(4) For international travel, you will be far better off avoiding UA's hub at IAD (see UA forum for many complaints) and flying via ORD or DFW. Also a longer overnight flight from middle-USA, which means more time to sleep. BTW, I find customs at LAX and SFO to be much better than the others.

(5) For award flights, UA and *A flights to Aus/NZ cost fewer miles than the equivalent OneWorld product on Quantas. Also, if you are willing to connect, you have a # of great options on *A including Thai, Signapore, AirNZ, etc.

(6) AA still uses reservations agents based in USA. UA has outsourced reservations to call centers in India and Phillipines - see UA board for many complaints on this topic.

It is a tough call. I think AA is easier to upgrade, but UA's E+ is clearly better if you can't upgrade.

See the recent news in the UA forum about their program being devalued. I already use AF and I will move more miles to them because their program is better. If you go to Europe mostly, I think they would be the best choice, especially after the KL merger. You get Skyteam in the US with CO, NW, DL and the rest of Skyteam plus KQ which has turned into one of the best airlines I fly.

What a welath of information...
So far Im leaning towards AA because:
5)My Domestic travel is always upfront so the e+ thing (which i have no idea what it is) doesnt make a difference for me.


E+ is just more leg room for elites (and those who pay extra). For the western US (LAX/SFO/PDX/SEA corridor), I'd prefer E+ on UA (decent legroom, sometimes video, ATC on channel 9) than "first" on AS (about same legroom as E+ on UA, no audio, no video, no ATC, often crappy little MD80s).

For some of your other purposes, such as to Asia and trans-atlantic, AA is a good choice. However, for Australia/NZ, AA is a very poor choice. QF doesn't like giving upgrades or reward seats to anyone. UA has lovely reward levels (90k for business class between anywhere in North America and SYD/MEL) and good upgrade availability if you have status. QF has no E+, so QF in economy class is hell, and getting upgrades is hard.

UA has lovely reward levels (90k for business class between anywhere in North America and SYD/MEL)

See my above post or see the UA forum. It is no longer 90K. It's 110K now for a Saver award to Oz. More for non-Saver tickets. All UA awards jumped up and they charge extra fees for awards now too.

See the recent news in the UA forum about their program being devalued. I already use AF and I will move more miles to them because their program is better. If you go to Europe mostly, I think they would be the best choice, especially after the KL merger. You get Skyteam in the US with CO, NW, DL and the rest of Skyteam plus KQ which has turned into one of the best airlines I fly.

Thanks for this interesting thought... Let me ask: How is it having a foreign FF program as your primary? Are there any consequences good or bad in residing in the US while belonging to a foreign FF program?

Thanks for this interesting thought... Let me ask: How is it having a foreign FF program as your primary? Are there any consequences good or bad in residing in the US while belonging to a foreign FF program?

In every program I am aware of outside the US, it is better to be a foreigner. For instance with AF/KL, French/Dutch people have to fly 90K miles for Platinum level. If you have a US address you only need to fly 70K miles for Platinum. Once you reach 70K, you get free lounge access anywhere in the world. This includes all domestic DL/NW/CO lounges.

Thanks for this interesting thought... Let me ask: How is it having a foreign FF program as your primary? Are there any consequences good or bad in residing in the US while belonging to a foreign FF program?
Many programs require a certain number of minimum segments to be flown on THEIR metal to qualify for status each year. If you belong to a foreign FF as your primary and status (for upgrades, preferred seating, etc) when you fly them is important to you, then make sure you can fly them (not just their partners) enough each year to (re)qualify.

And therein's the rub: In most cases, you can only get domestic upgrades, preferred seating, etc, for the program that you use enough to become elite in. If you fly enough to stay elite in several programs a year, that what does "primary" mean. If you don't fly enough to be elite in ANY program a year, I clearly understand what "primary" means (you're only working toward outright awards). But if you fly around the US and want to upgrade domestically, you HAVE to make a US program your "primary" if you can only fly enough to get status with one airline. (Then once you requalify for the next year, you can steer mileage toward that foreign partner if you wish without losing status.)

I find it useful to have at least ONE foreign airline to collect with, whether it's your "primary" or not, for those situations where only foreign airlines are good earning choices with partners. Every domstic airline (except Southwest) gives only a platry 50 miles per rental day with everyone, but Avis gives a flat 500 BA miles per rentals (even one day). Similarly, Candlewood Suites (often the cheapest property in the Priority Club program) gives only 1 mile/$ spent, so for a one night stay quite likely less than 100 miles, for US airlines, but for a number of European airlines including BA a flat 500 miles again. So for things like this, I collect with BA even though I don't consider it my primary airline, because I can't think of any domestic airline (other than Southwest) that it would make sense to collect with in those cases.

Well I guess its official. Im sticking with AA and as of Yesterday im a PLAT thanks to the challenge. Found out Monday 4/17 that I was going to OZ on 4/18 and back today (landed this afternoon) BOS-LAX-SYD-CBR-SYD-SFO-LAX-BOS (all in F and C on QF). Once my firm ticketed me i called AA and the agent which was very nice said all i had to do was 10k miles in the next three months... cleared it fast. Although the trip was brutal (QF C is not that great... gr8 service though IMO) i made plat and sticking to it. Looks like I will be having a few more transpacifics than I had thought and in F/C miles add on quickly. One note: very impressed to see on my profile my member status and all miles posted (Excpet today's SYD-SFO-LAX segment)... they should give a pointer or two to SPG in point posting!
watch out AA im only 700K away from 1MM ehhehehee

Moving to LA soon who do you reckon is best FF program out of LAX?

Currently SE on NW and travel semi-frequentely. Probably about 12 domestic flights (MIA, BOS, ATL, ORD) About 3-6 Transatlantic flights (AMS, LON, MIL) 1-2 Transpacific flights (AKL, SYD, MEL). I am keen on Elite status for domestic upgrades and elite bonus miles and accordingly I would like to concentrate the mileage in one program if possible.
Move to *As ship and go for UA's MP.