carl92103
Apr 3, 06, 8:58 pm
Interesting article:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06092/678833-28.stm
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06092/678833-28.stm
US Airways Dividend Miles - HP/US not merging well
View Full Version : HP/US not merging well
CAL PHL FLYER
Apr 3, 06, 9:54 pm
US wont last long..HP would have had a chance if they stayed on thier own..now US will drag them both out of business!
flyingcat
Apr 3, 06, 11:13 pm
Actually HP would have been bankrupt. Thats straight from Doug Parker.
As for the story its old news. The brawl was over a month ago and the employees involved were fired. The post gazette must be getting deperate for news, next they will rehash the election. I guess they ran out the standard "why isn't PIT the hub of the world? stories.
It's like the ex that won't leave you alone.
As for the story its old news. The brawl was over a month ago and the employees involved were fired. The post gazette must be getting deperate for news, next they will rehash the election. I guess they ran out the standard "why isn't PIT the hub of the world? stories.
It's like the ex that won't leave you alone.
ClueByFour
Apr 3, 06, 11:29 pm
Actually HP would have been bankrupt. Thats straight from Doug Parker.
They were one of the only airlines to have a profitable quarter after 9/11, a period in which US was bankrupt, twice.
As much as I like the frontline US employees, the better move would have been to "TWA" the operation. Trying to pull a merger with the old US is like lashing the anchor from the titanic to HP. The cultures are that different.
They were one of the only airlines to have a profitable quarter after 9/11, a period in which US was bankrupt, twice.
As much as I like the frontline US employees, the better move would have been to "TWA" the operation. Trying to pull a merger with the old US is like lashing the anchor from the titanic to HP. The cultures are that different.
flyingcat
Apr 3, 06, 11:38 pm
They were one of the only airlines to have a profitable quarter after 9/11, a period in which US was bankrupt, twice.
As much as I like the frontline US employees, the better move would have been to "TWA" the operation. Trying to pull a merger with the old US is like lashing the anchor from the titanic to HP. The cultures are that different.
Not profitable enough to survive the next ATSB loan payments that were coming due. Plus the other legacies were attempting to reduce their labor and other costs to HP level. This has been there greatest asset since 1984. They deperately needed more revenue generating power. Something US (CLT, PHL, etc.)had but needed competent management.
In terms of revenue generating possibilities, LAS and PHX don't come close to the O&D levels/yields of the other hubs.
As much as I like the frontline US employees, the better move would have been to "TWA" the operation. Trying to pull a merger with the old US is like lashing the anchor from the titanic to HP. The cultures are that different.
Not profitable enough to survive the next ATSB loan payments that were coming due. Plus the other legacies were attempting to reduce their labor and other costs to HP level. This has been there greatest asset since 1984. They deperately needed more revenue generating power. Something US (CLT, PHL, etc.)had but needed competent management.
In terms of revenue generating possibilities, LAS and PHX don't come close to the O&D levels/yields of the other hubs.
bofie
Apr 4, 06, 12:54 am
How can you be so negative? Usairways East is not some terrible company filled with trolls who delight in screwing the pax. Culture schmulture. East and west employees are all people who have families, pay bills and and are kind to small animals. Enough already! Stop this nonsense about corporate cultures and stop slandering good folks who are trying to do a job.
carl92103
Apr 4, 06, 1:30 am
How can you be so negative? Usairways East is not some terrible company filled with trolls who delight in screwing the pax. Culture schmulture. East and west employees are all people who have families, pay bills and and are kind to small animals. Enough already! Stop this nonsense about corporate cultures and stop slandering good folks who are trying to do a job.
I know I will be attacked on this comment but US West is the problem. This new management is one bad decision after another. US East has some good employees and I hope both parties can find a way to make it work. I think both groups can learn a lot from each other.
I know I will be attacked on this comment but US West is the problem. This new management is one bad decision after another. US East has some good employees and I hope both parties can find a way to make it work. I think both groups can learn a lot from each other.
McFlyPHL
Apr 4, 06, 7:31 am
I know I will be attacked on this comment but US West is the problem. This new management is one bad decision after another. US East has some good employees and I hope both parties can find a way to make it work. I think both groups can learn a lot from each other.
Please, please, please run along to the UA board. We all get it. You hate the new management, Doug Parker, and his dog because he didn't value you. UA is the king of the world.
Fact of the matter is that US' combined results don't bear out your conclusions. So far they're doing about as well as can be expected.
Please, please, please run along to the UA board. We all get it. You hate the new management, Doug Parker, and his dog because he didn't value you. UA is the king of the world.
Fact of the matter is that US' combined results don't bear out your conclusions. So far they're doing about as well as can be expected.
murphy
Apr 4, 06, 7:47 am
Which bad decisions are going to lead to ruin? Is it the improving operational performance, the falling costs, or the fastest yield growth in the industry that has you so worried?
PhillyPhlyer40
Apr 4, 06, 10:24 am
Which bad decisions are going to lead to ruin?
Trying to be a low cost carrier and offer F. Chose one. Abandon ALL FF's and VFF's and have no Fclass only southwest style Y or bring up the Fclass standards and VALUE FF's and VFF's!
I dont think they really know what they are going to do. Too much seems like they are changing the rules as the game is played!
Trying to be a low cost carrier and offer F. Chose one. Abandon ALL FF's and VFF's and have no Fclass only southwest style Y or bring up the Fclass standards and VALUE FF's and VFF's!
I dont think they really know what they are going to do. Too much seems like they are changing the rules as the game is played!
FreeSpiritFan
Apr 4, 06, 11:27 am
Trying to be a low cost carrier and offer F. Chose one. Abandon ALL FF's and VFF's and have no Fclass only southwest style Y or bring up the Fclass standards and VALUE FF's and VFF's!
I dont think they really know what they are going to do. Too much seems like they are changing the rules as the game is played!
I am currently US CP - but whenever they get their act together and re-tier everyone I expect to probably only retain Silver. My goal now is instead to be named #1 and name a plane after myself w/ Free Spirit - a TRUE low-cost carrier that does have first.
The way they get First Class to work in the LCC model is by never giving it away - then you don't have 35 CP's on the upgrade list for 3 spots - instead its been my experience to pay between $35-$60 in order to upgrade.
Personally, I am always willing to pay under $100 r/t for a nice F seat, extra miles, and free food/drink. Besides, this garauntees me a good seat - one complaint I do have about Spirit is that their seat assignment process isn't always the best. I think they have issues w/ seat assignments and schedule changes.
I dont think they really know what they are going to do. Too much seems like they are changing the rules as the game is played!
I am currently US CP - but whenever they get their act together and re-tier everyone I expect to probably only retain Silver. My goal now is instead to be named #1 and name a plane after myself w/ Free Spirit - a TRUE low-cost carrier that does have first.
The way they get First Class to work in the LCC model is by never giving it away - then you don't have 35 CP's on the upgrade list for 3 spots - instead its been my experience to pay between $35-$60 in order to upgrade.
Personally, I am always willing to pay under $100 r/t for a nice F seat, extra miles, and free food/drink. Besides, this garauntees me a good seat - one complaint I do have about Spirit is that their seat assignment process isn't always the best. I think they have issues w/ seat assignments and schedule changes.
McFlyPHL
Apr 4, 06, 11:57 am
Trying to be a low cost carrier and offer F. Chose one. Abandon ALL FF's and VFF's and have no Fclass only southwest style Y or bring up the Fclass standards and VALUE FF's and VFF's!
I dont think they really know what they are going to do. Too much seems like they are changing the rules as the game is played!
Yes... they're getting rid of a system that didn't work (see 2 BKs). Contrary to your assertion, WN DOES value FF and VFF's - it's called companion pass. Not a free F seat, but a pretty darn nice benefit. Just because the benefit isn't exactly what you had before (when they were, say, bleeding cash) doesn't mean it has no value or that they don't care.
I dont think they really know what they are going to do. Too much seems like they are changing the rules as the game is played!
Yes... they're getting rid of a system that didn't work (see 2 BKs). Contrary to your assertion, WN DOES value FF and VFF's - it's called companion pass. Not a free F seat, but a pretty darn nice benefit. Just because the benefit isn't exactly what you had before (when they were, say, bleeding cash) doesn't mean it has no value or that they don't care.
JScottsAZ
Apr 4, 06, 12:41 pm
I know I will be attacked on this comment but US West is the problem. This new management is one bad decision after another. US East has some good employees and I hope both parties can find a way to make it work. I think both groups can learn a lot from each other.
Don't you get tired of saying the same thing over and over and over? We know you obviously have an obsessive dislike of HP, Doug Parker and anyone involved with Arizona. For heaven sakes, just enjoy your newfound home with UA and move along.
To all those who think the new management is disorganized and has no idea what it's doing, it's pretty simple -- the combined airline will be run mainly the way HP was run. And if you look at HP's performance since Sept. 2001 you'll see that's been pretty good. Yes, you can be an LCC and have perks like FC upgrades, etc. There isn't a huge amount of confusion about what the airline is trying to be -- mainly just change, and most of the change will be felt on the East side. This may cause some pain, but the old East side model wasn't working, and the old West side model (HP) was working reasonably well.
Don't you get tired of saying the same thing over and over and over? We know you obviously have an obsessive dislike of HP, Doug Parker and anyone involved with Arizona. For heaven sakes, just enjoy your newfound home with UA and move along.
To all those who think the new management is disorganized and has no idea what it's doing, it's pretty simple -- the combined airline will be run mainly the way HP was run. And if you look at HP's performance since Sept. 2001 you'll see that's been pretty good. Yes, you can be an LCC and have perks like FC upgrades, etc. There isn't a huge amount of confusion about what the airline is trying to be -- mainly just change, and most of the change will be felt on the East side. This may cause some pain, but the old East side model wasn't working, and the old West side model (HP) was working reasonably well.
EnvoyBoy
Apr 4, 06, 12:44 pm
I dont think they really know what they are going to do. Too much seems like they are changing the rules as the game is played!
Seems to me that they know what they're doing. The result is that they seem less interested in the passenger most likely to be a contributer to FT and that has everyone on here (but surely not everyone, everywhere) up in arms.
The fact that they seem to be flying nearly full, while charging what many on here consider exceedingly high fares, appears to be a recipie for success. Most all my mainline flights in 2006 have been sold out, nearly sold out, or oversold. That combined with higher fares indicates that they might just be on to something.
The issue for those on FT is that this aforementioned "something" happens to be disliked by most of those here. (Change is bad! RAR! :mad: ) A great thing about the industry is that those unhappy passengers have the option to take their business (and their anger and their righteous indignation (but apparently not their FT posts)) elsewhere.
Seems to me that they know what they're doing. The result is that they seem less interested in the passenger most likely to be a contributer to FT and that has everyone on here (but surely not everyone, everywhere) up in arms.
The fact that they seem to be flying nearly full, while charging what many on here consider exceedingly high fares, appears to be a recipie for success. Most all my mainline flights in 2006 have been sold out, nearly sold out, or oversold. That combined with higher fares indicates that they might just be on to something.
The issue for those on FT is that this aforementioned "something" happens to be disliked by most of those here. (Change is bad! RAR! :mad: ) A great thing about the industry is that those unhappy passengers have the option to take their business (and their anger and their righteous indignation (but apparently not their FT posts)) elsewhere.
murphy
Apr 4, 06, 1:19 pm
Don't you get tired of saying the same thing over and over and over? We know you obviously have an obsessive dislike of HP, Doug Parker and anyone involved with Arizona. For heaven sakes, just enjoy your newfound home with UA and move along.
To all those who think the new management is disorganized and has no idea what it's doing, it's pretty simple -- the combined airline will be run mainly the way HP was run. And if you look at HP's performance since Sept. 2001 you'll see that's been pretty good. Yes, you can be an LCC and have perks like FC upgrades, etc. There isn't a huge amount of confusion about what the airline is trying to be -- mainly just change, and most of the change will be felt on the East side. This may cause some pain, but the old East side model wasn't working, and the old West side model (HP) was working reasonably well.
I think we need a sticky. "carl92103 has left US, and really like UA". It could become the clearing house for all jilted CP posts.
To all those who think the new management is disorganized and has no idea what it's doing, it's pretty simple -- the combined airline will be run mainly the way HP was run. And if you look at HP's performance since Sept. 2001 you'll see that's been pretty good. Yes, you can be an LCC and have perks like FC upgrades, etc. There isn't a huge amount of confusion about what the airline is trying to be -- mainly just change, and most of the change will be felt on the East side. This may cause some pain, but the old East side model wasn't working, and the old West side model (HP) was working reasonably well.
I think we need a sticky. "carl92103 has left US, and really like UA". It could become the clearing house for all jilted CP posts.
cptlflyer
Apr 4, 06, 1:25 pm
Trying to be a low cost carrier and offer F. Chose one. Abandon ALL FF's and VFF's and have no Fclass only southwest style Y or bring up the Fclass standards and VALUE FF's and VFF's!
I dont think they really know what they are going to do. Too much seems like they are changing the rules as the game is played!
FL is doing just fine with a relatively nice F cabin. Try again.
I dont think they really know what they are going to do. Too much seems like they are changing the rules as the game is played!
FL is doing just fine with a relatively nice F cabin. Try again.
janeway
Apr 4, 06, 1:30 pm
I don't understand why, on 3rd party vendors such as Orbitz, they still list America West and USAir as separate carriers.
I don't work in the airline industry, and I'm sure it's alot more complicated to merge the ticket systems than I know, but it still seems kind of half-_ssed, that they don't have a more integrated company nine(is it that long?) months post merger
I don't work in the airline industry, and I'm sure it's alot more complicated to merge the ticket systems than I know, but it still seems kind of half-_ssed, that they don't have a more integrated company nine(is it that long?) months post merger
martin33
Apr 4, 06, 3:18 pm
I don't understand why, on 3rd party vendors such as Orbitz, they still list America West and USAir as separate carriers.
they have to be listed as separate carriers, with flights "operated by" one another, as long as they have separate operating certificates. that's at least another year, year and a half.
they have to be listed as separate carriers, with flights "operated by" one another, as long as they have separate operating certificates. that's at least another year, year and a half.
LAX1K to AmWest
Apr 4, 06, 3:54 pm
I believe the problem is more than that, they have 2 infrastuctures based on different ticketing/reservation systems. They need to pick one. Of course, right now they could do that.. roll-out one to the whole company, even if on different tickets (look at the express carriers who have all their flights sold by US or HP). It is just that until there is one system, there is two flight numbers. Not sure if it will come sooner (but hope it comes before one operating certificate)...
flyingcat
Apr 4, 06, 4:07 pm
Res system switch is targeted for 4th quarter 2006 - 1st quarter 2007. As it come closer to the end of the year the date will firm up.
CPRich
Apr 4, 06, 5:12 pm
Res system switch is targeted for 4th quarter 2006 - 1st quarter 2007. As it come closer to the end of the year the date will firm up.
So a year and a half sounds about right (note to self: stash this away for future "told you so" thread, right next to last October's "No way Vista ships for Christmas next year" post).
I have to agree with many of the statements above. They are a LCC that happens to have F because of their legacy carriers. Starting over, they'd probably not have it, but it's too many $$$ to reconfigure the fleet and every once in a while you'll get a big $$ fare out of it.
I was in US F today for the first time in at least 6 months and sat next to Rocky Blier. I bet he wasn't there via an upgrade - rich people and celebrities do still (rarely) fly on US. They can continue to wring out as much as they can (the rumored $50 First Up ahead of status upgrades), only upgrading via status as a very last resort and still claim to offer unlimited upgrade to FF's.
It may tee off the 0.05% of the flying public that is the FT demographic and really understands what's going on, but I'm sure they'll be happy filling the flights with 99.95% and allowing the others to vent on an anonymous web forum.
Sad for us, but that's the reality.
So a year and a half sounds about right (note to self: stash this away for future "told you so" thread, right next to last October's "No way Vista ships for Christmas next year" post).
I have to agree with many of the statements above. They are a LCC that happens to have F because of their legacy carriers. Starting over, they'd probably not have it, but it's too many $$$ to reconfigure the fleet and every once in a while you'll get a big $$ fare out of it.
I was in US F today for the first time in at least 6 months and sat next to Rocky Blier. I bet he wasn't there via an upgrade - rich people and celebrities do still (rarely) fly on US. They can continue to wring out as much as they can (the rumored $50 First Up ahead of status upgrades), only upgrading via status as a very last resort and still claim to offer unlimited upgrade to FF's.
It may tee off the 0.05% of the flying public that is the FT demographic and really understands what's going on, but I'm sure they'll be happy filling the flights with 99.95% and allowing the others to vent on an anonymous web forum.
Sad for us, but that's the reality.