JetBlue TrueBlue - JetBlue Flight Attendant Fired For Fatigue

Hi JetBlue flyers. My name is the Queen of Sky and I am the Delta flight attendant that was fired because of my blog two years ago. Below is something I thought I would pass along to you all. I get a lot of emails from wrongfully terminated flight attendants, but this one stood out to me. It is just WRONG! :td: :mad: So I helped her write the following press release...


JetBlue Flight Attendant Fired For Fatigue

Long Beach, CA, March 23--JetBlue flight attendant Carolyn Livingston was fired last week after being bullied into working a flight that put her over the FAA maximum flight attendant duty period. The company accused her of sleeping on the job. She maintains that she was not, although she said she had tried to get herself and her crew released from the flight due to fatigue.

On February 17, Livingston, 35, was lead flight attendant of a four-member cabin crew that was to work a red-eye flight from Long Beach, CA, to Fort Lauderdale, FL, and back the next morning without a break. They were scheduled to report to the airport at 8:20pm and take off at 9:20pm. The flight was delayed two and a half hours, and didn't leave until 11:30pm.

During the flight, Livingston told the pilots to call the cabin crew in fatigued, as they were too tired to work the return flight back to Long Beach Airport, which would now put them over the FAA maximum 14-hour duty day.

When they landed in Fort Lauderdale, an In-flight supervisor met the plane and informed Livingston and her crew that there were no hotel rooms available in Fort Lauderdale, and that they would have to fly them all the way to New York’s JFK airport to get a hotel room if they refused to continue the trip. The supervisor also told Livingston that the return flight to Long Beach would have to cancel unless she and her crew agreed to work it.

Livingston’s crewmembers then decided to change their minds and work the return flight back to Long Beach.

“At this point I felt pressured to work the flight back, too,” Livingston said. “The supervisor intimidated me by telling me that they would have to cancel the flight if we didn’t work it. Plus, she didn’t seem to want to accept no for an answer. She informed us that they wouldn’t be able to get us a hotel room in Fort Lauderdale if we decided to stay.”

Livingston said she finally decided to go ahead and work the flight home, as it seemed to be the easiest solution for everyone involved.

Three weeks later, Livingston’s supervisor notified her of a report from a fellow crewmember that stated Livingston had been sleeping on one of the jumpseats in the back galley during the flight back to Long Beach on February 18. Sleeping on the jumpseat is a fireable offense at JetBlue. Subsequently, Livingston was placed on suspension pending an investigation.

On March 16, Livingston was terminated from JetBlue. The reason given: sleeping on the jumpseat.

“I was shocked. I absolutely was NOT sleeping on the jumpseat,” Livingston said. “Management concocted that as an excuse to fire me for attempting to call in fatigued for the flight.”

Fatigue is not a new issue for the airline crews. Indeed, it has been a major concern since the dawn of aviation. It is especially important since it impacts airline safety. Pilot fatigue has been blamed for many crashes through the years.

“Apparently safety is not JetBlue’s number one concern,” Livingston said. “Otherwise they would have allowed us to call in fatigued and relieved us from the flight. I told the oncoming pilots that we had called in fatigued, and they were shocked that In-flight didn't release us. In their opinion that was a complete no-no.”

Not only does crew fatigue impact airline safety, but also crewmembers’ health. In recent years flight attendant and pilot unions have been trying to push for stricter federal regulations regarding required crew rest and maximum duty days. Many airlines like JetBlue, however, find ways to intimidate their employees into flying past the federally mandated daily limits.

Livingston, a single mother, stated she felt she had no chance of appealing to get her job back.

JetBlue spokeswoman Jenny Dervin said the company does not comment on crewmembers to the public.

JetBlue flight attendants are not unionized.

Contact:
Carolyn Livingston
CWilson555@aol.com

Ya know, if you're gonna rely upon the FARs to argue that B6 ignored safety and put its pax at risk, it might be a good idea to summarize those regulations in a non-misleading manner. My opinion is that you have not accurately described the 14 hour duty day limitation of 121.467.

Lots of FAs at lots of airlines are scheduled for duty days in excess of 14 hours. And 121.467 allows duty days in excess of 14 hours, provided that those duty periods are followed by proper rest periods.

Sad thing is, given the state of journalism these days, you'll probably be able to get your press release published verbatim in hundreds of outlets.

These are not good for F/A were sleeping on the job and it is against the rules on the airlines. They doesn't allowed to get sleep on the plane. That's why B6 some employees were fired their job. It should need to stay awake for all the times. It need come along on FA to get back on the job and stay with the rules on FAA regulations and become it is stricter with FAA. Maybe some of employees will accepted to find another job in the future.

It would never occur to me to complain about a FA napping on a flight. Not even on legacy carriers where they close the curtains to make sure nobody sees. To have a fellow crewmember make such a report? That's almost incomprehensible. Everybody knows that the FA's will be fully awake immediately if a problem arises, and in that case I want them to be as well-rested as possible.

JetBlue flight attendant Carolyn Livingston was fired last week after being bullied into working a flight that put her over the FAA maximum flight attendant duty period.
What penalty has/will the FAA impose on Jet Blue for allowing these flight attendents to work beyond the FAA maximum flight attendant duty period?

I have friends who fly for some of the legacy carriers and they have been complaining of fatigue in the past few months. They are working more hours on obviously much fuller flights with bare minimum layovers and are not happy. As such i think this problem is going to become a major issue as airlines push their employees to the limit. Will be interesting to see what the FAA does or does not do
K

What penalty has/will the FAA impose on Jet Blue for allowing these flight attendents to work beyond the FAA maximum flight attendant duty period?

There's no possible penalty to be imposed, as B6 did not schedule the flights to exceed the 14 hour duty day.

Remove all the whiny rhetoric from this "press release," and this boils down to an FA attempting to call in "fatigued" less than seven hours after she reported for duty. She reported at 8:20pm, took off at 11:30pm, and her flight to FLL wouldn't have taken much longer than four hours (especially with the tailwinds), meaning she had decided that she was too tired to keep working only halfway into the 14 hour duty day.

Her LGB-FLL flight was delayed due to the severe headwinds encountered by nearly all B6 westbound flights during February and much of March, many of which had to stop for fuel.

Sounds like she needed to get more rest prior to her flights so she wouldn't fall asleep on her jumpseat.

As an aside, if I were in charge, I wouldn't fire anyone for catnaps, especially at altitude, where an evacuation requiring the FA's full attention is not gonna happen.

Livingston, a single mother, ....
What's the relevance?

JetBlue flight attendants are not unionized. [/email]

So what appeal rights do they have if they are fired? None?

Terminated employees are allowed an appeal (if they know about it)....but benig that the panel works with/for management, I can't imagine it being entirely fair and impartial... :rolleyes:

I have friends who fly for some of the legacy carriers and they have been complaining of fatigue in the past few months. They are working more hours on obviously much fuller flights with bare minimum layovers and are not happy. As such i think this problem is going to become a major issue as airlines push their employees to the limit. Will be interesting to see what the FAA does or does not do
K

Unfortunately, it will probably take some sort of horrific tragedy before the
FAA does anything.

What's the procedure if the FA falls ill while in flight? Surely the airline doesn't expect you to continue working and potentially making customers sick, do they? Nobody in management really cares, or takes seriously, fatigue, but more do illness, so why not just feign illness? Or do they still get fired if they fall asleep?

JetBlue Flight Attendants are Not Unionized..therefore they can not fight a termination..they agree when they join JetBlue that they are to be employed "At Will" and JetBlue reserves the right to Fire any Flight Attendant for any reason at any time.Thats what they get for Not having a Union..(Besides..how many employers allow sleeping on the job)?..Shame on Her..JetBlue is Correct here..Now they can hire a New Flight Attendant off the street for less pay and keep fares cheap.

If I was a f/a for B6, I would get all my co-workers to go on strike, and demand to be unionized (is that spelled right). I mean the people who clean the toilets at the airport even have a union.

JetBlue Flight Attendants are Not Unionized..therefore they can not fight a termination..they agree when they join JetBlue that they are to be employed "At Will" and JetBlue reserves the right to Fire any Flight Attendant for any reason at any time.

Funny, that sounds just like my job, and virtually every other job in this country!

If I was a f/a for B6, I would get all my co-workers to go on strike, and demand to be unionized (is that spelled right). I mean the people who clean the toilets at the airport even have a union.

You've got that backwards. First you unionize, then you strike.

If you strike first, your employer will fire you.

And that's generally allowed, since you have no union. :)

Remember: Organize, hold representation election, then strike.

oy vay. now the crew doesn't like the airline.

i knew i wasn't crazy when I saw massive problems at JetINTHERED, I mean JetBlue

You've got that backwards. First you unionize, then you strike.

If you strike first, your employer will fire you.

And that's generally allowed, since you have no union. :)

Remember: Organize, hold representation election, then strike.

Stop giving people ideas.... ;)

Remember, strike first, then unionize (at your new job).

oy vay. now the crew doesn't like the airline.

i knew i wasn't crazy when I saw massive problems at JetINTHERED, I mean JetBlue

Name one company thats about jetBlue's size or larger where 100% of their staff like the company they work for.

The fact is when a company gets as big as jetBlue, you are going to have some people that hate working for you after a while.

I would have to question the press release itself because it left out some important details such as has this happened before with this particular crew member? and so on. From a HR standpoint, what said in the press release does not make any sense because it cost alot of money to fire someone and to recruit someone to fill their spot so it wouldn't make sense to fire the crew member on a first offense. There has to be something more to it. I have some HR experiences and even have a degree in HRM and what I read in the press release just doesnt seem right.

I love jetBlue, their a great company. I am sure they have fired people in the past and people had quit the company, its bound to happen. Your never going to have 100% employee retension, regardless how well you treat them.

I am an investor in Jetblue and have generally positive opinion about the management. However, cases like these need to be worked on with more tact. As the company matures, it is important to communicate and sort issues out rather than fire using some rule/regulation.

You throw away goodwill of the employees (crew members as they say at Jetblue) and the passengers. It took years for Walmart and its shareholders to feel the negative effects of hardball tactics.

I don't think Jetblue should allow its brand to be tarnished so easily - it should try to sort things out, communicate problems and customer impact and work with the crew members. I hope someone in senior management takes these things seriously.

A press release is just that - one side of a story designed to take the best shot possible. In this case there are probably three sides....hers, the airlines and the truth. I don't go sideways when reading something like this - While I feel sorry for her loss of job - and I'm also a believe in how precious a job is to someone - the company also lost someone they made a considerable investment in too.... that decision didn't come lightly.

Now....
MODERATOR HAT ON
This is the type of topic - which is way off from the boards stated purpose of miles and points. That being said - the thread will stay open so long as the conversation remain civil - doesn't go personal (no attacks, baiting, name calling, flaming...you get the picture....).......

Thanks everyone...

In this case there are probably three sides....hers, the airlines and the truth.

This still leaves it two: her truth and the company's truth. As you state yourself, both sides have their points and believe they are in their right.

Now, when a judge comes in, he would find a third truth. But if that would be the objective truth?

Remove all the whiny rhetoric from this "press release," and this boils down to an FA attempting to call in "fatigued" less than seven hours after she reported for duty. She reported at 8:20pm, took off at 11:30pm, and her flight to FLL wouldn't have taken much longer than four hours (especially with the tailwinds), meaning she had decided that she was too tired to keep working only halfway into the 14 hour duty day.


Hmmmm, interesting...... So you used your critical thinking skills and made a determination that you may not have received the entire story. What an amazing concept. Kudos to everyone here who has been left with more questions than answers by this 'press release'. It seems so common today for people to just believe everything they read on the internet it is refreshing to see intelligent conversation, both for and against the actual value of the OP's statement.

As for me, I will admit I am a jet blue fan, but no matter what company could have been involved here I think there is something more to the story.

This still leaves it two: her truth and the company's truth. As you state yourself, both sides have their points and believe they are in their right.


I agree completely. But this has done nothing to disuade me from continuing to use JetBlue whenever I can.

You've got that backwards. First you unionize, then you strike.

If you strike first, your employer will fire you.

And that's generally allowed, since you have no union. :)

Remember: Organize, hold representation election, then strike.

That's actually not true. The National Labor Relations Act protects employees engaging in "concerted activity." That basically means that if 2 or more employees are protesting a term or condition of employment (which basically includes everything), they can't be fired. You and 1 co-worker can walk off the job because you think it's too warm in the office, and you can't be fired.

Management could permanently replace the workers who walked off, but would be penalized by the NLRB if they fired, or threatened to fire employees for such a reason.

Employees actually have greater flexability to strike or walk off the job without a union, because a union contract can give the union leaders the decision whether or not to strike (UPS), some contracts even have a no-strike clause, which creates the "work now grieve later" enivornment so the company doesn't loose productivity and the workers can get justice at a later time.

JetBlue works hard to be non-union, and in order to remain that way, they have to take care of their employees, which they do. The best way to keep your employees non-union, is to respect them and treat them fairly. I wouldn't be surprised if B6 has employment policies and practices which closely mirror union counterparts.

My guess is the OP is a union organizer and is trying to organize B6 FAs. The merits of a union could be debated forever, however as long as employees are treated well and fairly, who cares who is making the decisions.

Hi JetBlue flyers. My name is the Queen of Sky and I am the Delta flight attendant that was fired because of my blog two years ago. Below is something I thought I would pass along to you all. I get a lot of emails from wrongfully terminated flight attendants, but this one stood out to me. It is just WRONG! :td: :mad: So I helped her write the following press release...

I'm sorry the FA lost her job. However, there are always two sides to every story. I cannot say who is right and who is wrong because I wasn't there. However, if the fired FA has a legitimate case, she should sue JetBlue. On the other hand, if B6 didn't do anything illegal, then the OP should stop bashing B6 by publishing this so-called "press release".....

I have never traveled on Jetblue, but I can say US Airways FA work a long time. A piedmont FA complained that she works long hours and needs more rest. Thats with 18yrs of seniority. She needs to Sue jetblue if she thinks it was unlawful.

I flew in J on AA from SJU to JFK today..purser took about a 30 minute nap on the jumpseat in full view of the first few rows of business class on the 763..sound asleep while the other f/a s were chatting in the front galley.

A press release is just that - one side of a story designed to take the best shot possible. In this case there are probably three sides....hers, the airlines and the truth. I don't go sideways when reading something like this - While I feel sorry for her loss of job - and I'm also a believe in how precious a job is to someone - the company also lost someone they made a considerable investment in too.... that decision didn't come lightly.

Now....
MODERATOR HAT ON
This is the type of topic - which is way off from the boards stated purpose of miles and points. That being said - the thread will stay open so long as the conversation remain civil - doesn't go personal (no attacks, baiting, name calling, flaming...you get the picture....).......

Thanks everyone...

Im sorry but I think you have it Wrong as to what is allowed and isnt and What is miles and points.

The reason I say this is go over to the CO Board and look at the Thread about if CO should Allow Brokeback Mt to be shown or not. The Mods over there have no Problem allowing a thread that is basically either Hey Im Gay and Proud, or Gay Bashing.

I asked that it be moved to where it belongs GLBT or Omni , but it seems that 1 or Both Mods find that it is relative to CO to discuss what is basically a Gay Thread. Then again at least 1 of the Mods isnt looking at it from an NON-objective view.

So if that thread is OK for CO, why shouldnt this be OK for JB.

For the record I do NOT disagree with the Mod on this Board

I personally don't mind it if a f/a is taking a quick nap. They work long hours and its hard work. If a 15 to 30 minutes powernap is what make them more productive, than so be it. It's not like it take every single f/a to help one person that rign his / her call button... well, maybe it does on other airlines... j/k.

Basically, I'm not gonna complain about it or anything. However, with that said, I'm not taking sides on saying who was right with this case becuase I personally believe that theres more to it than what was stated in the press release.

Hi JetBlue flyers. My name is the Queen of Sky and I am the Delta flight attendant that was fired because of my blog two years ago. Below is something I thought I would pass along to you all. I get a lot of emails from wrongfully terminated flight attendants, but this one stood out to me. It is just WRONG! :td: :mad: So I helped her write the following press release...


JetBlue Flight Attendant Fired For Fatigue

Long Beach, CA, March 23--JetBlue flight attendant Carolyn Livingston was fired last week after being bullied into working a flight that put her over the FAA maximum flight attendant duty period. The company accused her of sleeping on the job. She maintains that she was not, although she said she had tried to get herself and her crew released from the flight due to fatigue.

On February 17, Livingston, 35, was lead flight attendant of a four-member cabin crew that was to work a red-eye flight from Long Beach, CA, to Fort Lauderdale, FL, and back the next morning without a break. They were scheduled to report to the airport at 8:20pm and take off at 9:20pm. The flight was delayed two and a half hours, and didn't leave until 11:30pm.

During the flight, Livingston told the pilots to call the cabin crew in fatigued, as they were too tired to work the return flight back to Long Beach Airport, which would now put them over the FAA maximum 14-hour duty day.

When they landed in Fort Lauderdale, an In-flight supervisor met the plane and informed Livingston and her crew that there were no hotel rooms available in Fort Lauderdale, and that they would have to fly them all the way to New York’s JFK airport to get a hotel room if they refused to continue the trip. The supervisor also told Livingston that the return flight to Long Beach would have to cancel unless she and her crew agreed to work it.

Livingston’s crewmembers then decided to change their minds and work the return flight back to Long Beach.

“At this point I felt pressured to work the flight back, too,” Livingston said. “The supervisor intimidated me by telling me that they would have to cancel the flight if we didn’t work it. Plus, she didn’t seem to want to accept no for an answer. She informed us that they wouldn’t be able to get us a hotel room in Fort Lauderdale if we decided to stay.”

Livingston said she finally decided to go ahead and work the flight home, as it seemed to be the easiest solution for everyone involved.

Three weeks later, Livingston’s supervisor notified her of a report from a fellow crewmember that stated Livingston had been sleeping on one of the jumpseats in the back galley during the flight back to Long Beach on February 18. Sleeping on the jumpseat is a fireable offense at JetBlue. Subsequently, Livingston was placed on suspension pending an investigation.

On March 16, Livingston was terminated from JetBlue. The reason given: sleeping on the jumpseat.

“I was shocked. I absolutely was NOT sleeping on the jumpseat,” Livingston said. “Management concocted that as an excuse to fire me for attempting to call in fatigued for the flight.”

Fatigue is not a new issue for the airline crews. Indeed, it has been a major concern since the dawn of aviation. It is especially important since it impacts airline safety. Pilot fatigue has been blamed for many crashes through the years.

“Apparently safety is not JetBlue’s number one concern,” Livingston said. “Otherwise they would have allowed us to call in fatigued and relieved us from the flight. I told the oncoming pilots that we had called in fatigued, and they were shocked that In-flight didn't release us. In their opinion that was a complete no-no.”

Not only does crew fatigue impact airline safety, but also crewmembers’ health. In recent years flight attendant and pilot unions have been trying to push for stricter federal regulations regarding required crew rest and maximum duty days. Many airlines like JetBlue, however, find ways to intimidate their employees into flying past the federally mandated daily limits.

Livingston, a single mother, stated she felt she had no chance of appealing to get her job back.

JetBlue spokeswoman Jenny Dervin said the company does not comment on crewmembers to the public.

JetBlue flight attendants are not unionized.

Contact:
Carolyn Livingston
CWilson555@aol.com

Did you have some comments to add? It appears you've copied the original post and not added any.

Well, they put a frowning face at the top LOL

Hi JetBlue flyers. My name is the Queen of Sky and I am the Delta flight attendant that was fired because of my blog two years ago. Below is something I thought I would pass along to you all. I get a lot of emails from wrongfully terminated flight attendants, but this one stood out to me. It is just WRONG! :td: :mad: So I helped her write the following press release...




Sorry to hear that anyone got fired. This just goes to show that you don't play games with duty rigs. They are made for the safety of the workers and the safety of those on the plane. WHat would have happened if they had an accident?

If the duty day was exceeded than it was the crews responsibility to not take the flight and it was Jet Blue's responsibility to deadhead a new crew down or to make alternate plans for the flight.

It was not up to the crew to "save the company" at a cost to the safety of the flight.

Now, that being said, I work international out of JFK and our duty rigs state we can be scheduled 14 hours and rescheduled to 16. I know domestic is 14 hours max per FAA. 14-16 hours is a long duty day, especially if you are talking about working an all nighter out and a morning flight back.

Regardless of the duty day, this sounds suspiciously like she was fired because the rest of the crew simply DIDN'T LIKE HER. Which would lead me to believe she is regularly lazy, and complains all the time about everything. Crewmembers traditionally stick together and I find it doubtful that the crew is going to rat someone out for catching a few z's. This kind of thing doesn't happen even if most of the crew is drinking the Blue Koolaid. I can almost guarantee that the crewmembers were glad to see her go, even if half of them aren't admitting it now.