SAS EuroBonus - OT: Emirates to ARN

According to Swedish magazine Business Travel, Emirates is to start a route to Stockholm (ARN) in October 2006. The article doesn't say whether it is the discontinued CPH route that has been moved or if ARN was planned for from the beginning. Either way it's very good news for Scandinavia, Stockholm, Arlanda Airport and indeed all Middle East travellers.

According to Swedish magazine Business Travel, Emirates is to start a route to Stockholm (ARN) in October 2006. The article doesn't say whether it is the discontinued CPH route that has been moved or if ARN was planned for from the beginning. Either way it's very good news for Scandinavia, Stockholm, Arlanda Airport and indeed all Middle East travellers.

So Emirates are planning to "punish" the Danes by moving the planned service to ARN?? :td: :td:

Lufthansa all the way to Dubai for this guy.... No way I'm supporting Emirates!

So Emirates are planning to "punish" the Danes by moving the planned service to ARN?? :td: :td:

Lufthansa all the way to Dubai for this guy.... No way I'm supporting Emirates!

erm actually, that was just a thought made by the OP... there was nothing official about the Danes being "punished"

Cheers

erm actually, that was just a thought made by the OP... there was nothing official about the Danes being "punished"

Cheers

Yeah, I'm sure politics had nothing to do with Emirates changing their mind about CPH :p

Yeah, I'm sure politics had nothing to do with Emirates changing their mind about CPH :p

me too.

Yeah, I'm sure politics had nothing to do with Emirates changing their mind about CPH :p

Yes, the decision to postpone CPH route just happened to come a little after some pics were published in Danish papers - what a coincidence :rolleyes: :D

Lufthansa all the way to Dubai for this guy.... No way I'm supporting Emirates!
I second that.

Yes, the decision to postpone CPH route just happened to come a little after some pics were published in Danish papers - what a coincidence :rolleyes: :D

Private companies (i.e., Emirates is not owned by the UAE) are allowed to evaluate their commercial situations (i.e., marketing impact) the way they wish. United Airlines pulled out of India (i.e., cancelled its marketing program related thereto too) after 9/11 and Delta ditched its Middle East strategy after 9/11. Perception has an impact on commercial decisions.

In any event, I'm happy to have Emirates out of ARN (for now); it'll serve me better than a CPH route. :D

I'll certainly be flying Emirates from ARN-DXB since a lot of countries I visit don't have better alternatives or require transfers at airports/cities I'd rather not transit through. However, Emirates non-affiliation with a major airline alliance (and elite qualifying miles in such programs) is a turn-off.

Private companies (i.e., Emirates is not owned by the UAE) are allowed to evaluate their commercial situations (i.e., marketing impact) the way they wish.

In principle of course not, but the timing of this one makes you really wonder...

PS. This is an interesting article if you can read any Danish: http://takeoff.nu/news.cfm?nNewsWeekly=0&nNewsId=6800

In principle of course not, but the timing of this one makes you really wonder...

PS. This is an interesting article if you can read any Danish: http://takeoff.nu/news.cfm?nNewsWeekly=0&nNewsId=6800

I'm definitely of the thinking that the cancellation timing was clearly related to the circumstances at the time. (That is to say that there is little to wonder about the timing.) The timing of a launch did not make sense for Emirates given the circumstances at the time, especially commercial implications that were broader than the CPH-DXB route's viability and which could involve perception-based commercial risks in EK's main markets were the launch to then go ahead. That too, with or without the cancellation, wouldn't there have been a drop -- marginal as it may be -- in Danish interest in visiting EK's home market in the backdrop of news stories where Danes were being told that Danes should hide or not go to certain places? Losing some part of the tourist market would be a financial hit for EK and the family/friends' and business travel demand on those routes don't make up for the drop in tourism-related demand. [Swedish media didn't have anywhere near the volume of "hide"-type stories that the Danish media had. And on the alternative side, Persson is nowhere near as infamous in the UAE like Rasmussen is. (Rasmussen needs communications help, including help with keeping his "private" comments from making the rounds.)]

Any reasons why EK would be a whole lot more commercially viable flying from CPH to DXB than from ARN to DXB?

[Swedish media didn't have anywhere near the volume of "hide"-type stories that the Danish media had.

And why would they ? It was mainly the Danish and to a certain extent the Norweigians that were targeted !

And why would they ? It was mainly the Danish and to a certain extent the Norweigians that were targeted !

For me, it's not a question of who would or should, but more of a matter of who did and didn't and how that impacted (and continues to impact) the commercial decision making process.

The point I was making is that perhaps ARN makes more sense given the circumstances, where the ARN-home market didn't have anywhere near the number of such stories and the ARN-area leisure market is less likely to be turned off since Swedes were mostly -- not entirely -- left out of the conflagration.

Private companies (i.e., Emirates is not owned by the UAE)
Emirates might not be owned by the UAE government, but by the same sheiks that sits in the government...

For me, it's not a question of who would or should, but more of a matter of who did and didn't and how that impacted (and continues to impact) the commercial decision making process.


Commercial decision. I doubt it very much as bookings according to Emirates were significantly above expectations. Then all of a sudden the route was cancelled.

Having said that: Has there been any confirmation on the ARN opening - I am not aware of any.

And while we are on international routes into Scandinavia: Rumor has it that Varig will cut its CPH route and that Malaysian will cut their ARN stop. Both of them as part of a restructure of these troubled airlines.

Emirates might not be owned by the UAE government, but by the same sheiks that sits in the government...

The owners of Emirates eat up the scraps left by the UAE government's biggest whigs. Dubai's sheikhs -- affiliated with Emirates (EK), to say the least -- are not on an equal footing with the UAE Presidency no matter how hard Dubai may try. Abu Dhabi (and its allies in the UAE) make sure of that.

The UAE's President and ultimate ruling establishment have objectives that directly oppose the Dubai-based majority owners of Emirates. Let's just say that Abu Dhabi's royal family would have little issue with slapping Dubai's sheikhs (even quite literally :eek: ) if Dubai or Emirates grows too big for their britches (or their national costume equivalent). And Abu Dhabi's ruling establishment does not for a second believe that Dubai sits in the UAE government on an equal footing. It's more like Dubai is in the room like a summer intern -- i.e., because the intern is your inlaws' favorite nephew and upsetting the inlaws by rejecting him will come up later during vacation and make things more complicated, even if only a nuisance complication. :D

Dubai -- people and its establishment families -- diversified the way they have because Dubai had nowhere near the oil of Abu Dhabi nor the real clout required to hold even its relatively weaker position within the UAE. And things have not changed so much yet either, with Dubai and Dubai's sheikhs getting the sloppy seconds and leftovers.

It's interesting how an airline that began by building on the backs of Pakistanis' planes have come so far ... and without an equity (or equity-equivalent) injection of cash from government in over a decade. :D

Commercial decision. I doubt it very much as bookings according to Emirates were significantly above expectations. Then all of a sudden the route was cancelled.

Having said that: Has there been any confirmation on the ARN opening - I am not aware of any.

And while we are on international routes into Scandinavia: Rumor has it that Varig will cut its CPH route and that Malaysian will cut their ARN stop. Both of them as part of a restructure of these troubled airlines.

The bookings from CPH were not going to drop off after the conflagration? I'd be surprised if they would not have. Also, there are the derivative commercial considerations, like the PR impact. Would EK really financially benefit from news stories saying it was launching service to Copenhagen while memories of the debacle were fresh? I have my doubts. That EK is not willing to sacrifice its bread and butter, of regional traffic, for what may be fair weather business seems a commercially defensible position.

Varig's LHR-CPH is going because of Varig's financial precariousness. It might be sold in scraps even. :eek:

Malaysian is having financial issues too but it seems to me to be a bit more viable than Varig's LHR-CPH route. But that is not to say that ARN-KUL will last, since Malaysian's RTW-type routings seem to be on the chopping block. :(

And while we are on international routes into Scandinavia: Rumor has it that Varig will cut its CPH route and that Malaysian will cut their ARN stop. Both of them as part of a restructure of these troubled airlines.

Where did you pick up these rumors?

Where did you pick up these rumors?

At least the consortium of investors led by Boris Berezovsky have retained services in an effort to pursue the pick up of Varig. In that area too routes being slashed have come up.

I never cared to figure out why Varig didn't simply decide to code share on the LHR-CPH route. Anyone know? (It's too bad that this may well go sooner than later since it was, for a good part of time, one of the cheaper options between LHR-CPH for me.

At least the consortium of investors led by Boris Berezovsky have retained services in an effort to pursue the pick up of Varig. In that area too routes being slashed have come up.

I never cared to figure out why Varig didn't simply decide to code share on the LHR-CPH route. Anyone know? (It's too bad that this may well go sooner than later since it was, for a good part of time, one of the cheaper options between LHR-CPH for me.

It still is one of the cheapest options on CPH-LHR (from DKK695 or so), and it always seems to be full - and they always have to op-up :-)
Also, this is the only route where you can actually fly First within Europe. But noone seems to use that unique option?

Also, this is the only route where you can actually fly First within Europe. But noone seems to use that unique option?

There's also MAN-ZRH on SQ :)

It still is one of the cheapest options on CPH-LHR (from DKK695 or so), and it always seems to be full - and they always have to op-up :-)
Also, this is the only route where you can actually fly First within Europe. But noone seems to use that unique option?

It's been used for some promotions. :D

The bookings from CPH were not going to drop off after the conflagration? I'd be surprised if they would not have. Also, there are the derivative commercial considerations, like the PR impact. Would EK really financially benefit from news stories saying it was launching service to Copenhagen while memories of the debacle were fresh? I have my doubts. That EK is not willing to sacrifice its bread and butter, of regional traffic, for what may be fair weather business seems a commercially defensible position.

(

I see your point, but if they after a few months choose to launch service to ARN, I think it's provoking and it's not a company I will support. If they had any balls, Emirates should have tried to be above the debate and try to build a bridge. If they did, I think they would gain respects all over, surely from me.

But Emirates have not confirmed anything at ARN yet so I will hold my tongue until they do.. :D

CPH is where EK should be. Too bad it got cancelled (or at least put 'on hold') because of political issues that doesn't have anything to do with either Denmark or Copenhagen in reality.
I think (and hope) we're going to see Gulf Air or Qatar Airways in CPH in the near future, since there aren't any flights between Scandinavia and the gulf as of this moment.

EK in ARN? Who knows. It's the 'wrong' airport anyway.

CPH is where EK should be. Too bad it got cancelled (or at least put 'on hold') because of political issues that doesn't have anything to do with either Denmark or Copenhagen in reality.
I think (and hope) we're going to see Gulf Air or Qatar Airways in CPH in the near future, since there aren't any flights between Scandinavia and the gulf as of this moment.

EK in ARN? Who knows. It's the 'wrong' airport anyway.

Why is ARN the "wrong" airport? Just because it's not as well designed as CPH?

Why is ARN the "wrong" airport? Just because it's not as well designed as CPH?
It's "wrong" in the sense that EK's original Scandi-destination was supposed to be CPH (because they obviously saw the better market there), and it got cancelled/put on hold because of a stupid political matter.
I'm not trying to put ARN down here. It just feels wrong (and hell, it must feel a bit strange for EK as well if they start a route to their "second choice" destination).

I suppose many travellers feel like this.

It's "wrong" in the sense that EK's original Scandi-destination was supposed to be CPH (because they obviously saw the better market there), and it got cancelled/put on hold because of a stupid political matter.
I'm not trying to put ARN down here. It just feels wrong (and hell, it must feel a bit strange for EK as well if they start a route to their "second choice" destination).

I suppose many travellers feel like this.

ARN feels right to me .... I mean for me. :D

ARN feels right to me .... I mean for me. :D
I hear ya! ;)

Where did you pick up these rumors?

As it relates to Varig: Part of a possible restructuring plan includes shaving routes to a couple of destinations, including CPH. Look here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=467167&page=6&pp=15

As it relates to Malaysian: According to the company 66 out of 114 routes run with a loss. The KUL-ARN-EWR route may be axed. See here for additional details (sorry Danish only):
http://www.takeoff.dk/news.cfm?nNewsWeekly=1&nNewsId=7018&search_articles=stockholm

As it relates to Emirates: ARN already in November hinted at an Emirates route (Again Danish only):
http://www.takeoff.dk/news.cfm?nNewsWeekly=1&nNewsId=7018&search_articles=stockholm