MilesBuzz! - Security ???s for vacation travel

We're shortly traveling to Hawaii on the nonstop from EWR. This is a vacation trip. I'm getting nervous about going through security.... Some of the stories I've read on these boards have made my hair stand on end and, in my opinion, border on invasion of privacy.

What can we expect?

I'm FedExing my laptop (my company has agreed to pay - heck, they should be grateful I'm even TAKING it). So, all I will have is a small (ladies size) backpack with personal effects - non of which are sharp :}. We're talking about books, glasses, OTC drugs. I did NOT go out and buy a bra without underwires-I'll deal with it. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

BUT - my husband will be carrying a camera backpack case. This is where we need your advise. The case will contain a camera body, with it's cover, several lenses, filters, pro quality film that WILL ruin in the xray machines, and various other camera related equipment. He's checking the tri-pod.

Of course, we don't care if they go through the stuff - they can be our guests. BUT, if one of these guys take the cover off the camera body & touch the mirror, my husband just may throw a fit. He's told me that it can be damaged by someone touching that mirror. Is the airline/security taking responsibility for damaging property?

Now, before you tell me I'm getting hysterical, keep in mind that I've read some pretty nasty stuff going on. We have nothing to hide, but just don't want our stuff damaged. Particularly since DH is really looking forward to taking some pictures (he says is relaxes him). Plus, while not professional gear, it's pretty high quality.

What do you experts think? Oh ~ didn't mention that we don't fit any profile that we're aware of.

Mary

I sometimes carry a camera through airports professionally (I do some freelance magazine writing/photography) and here's what I've done when carrying my trusty Nikon and etc. through airport security, including two trips post-Sept. 11th.

First, there's no harm in letting your lenses, camera bodies and other equipment through the X-Ray machine. It's only the film you have to worry about. Just be sure not to have a roll loaded before you go through security. I've never seen or heard of the security types disassembling a camera body, but if they're feeling really suspicious they may ask you to dry fire a few frames (another reason not to have any film inside).

Second, I've asked for hand inspections of my film and gotten it each time. One airport security guard, in Denver, tried to insist on putting my film through the X-Ray but I calmly said "no," pointed out that FAA regulations permit travelers to request a hand search of photographic film and asked to speak with a supervisor. The supervisor performed a hand inspection of my film and told the original screener that I or anyone else who asked for a hand inspection of film was within their rights. I've heard apocryphal accounts of a USAToday photog who carries a printout of the relevant regs from FAA's website in his camera bag, but I've never needed it. You can also get a lead foil film storage bag at any well-stocked camera store and put your film in that (which will result in a more intense hand inspection when they can't see through the blob in your baggage) but I have had no difficulties using a plastic 'ziploc' bag and insisting on my right to a hand inspection.

You might consider the possibility of mailing your exposed rolls home or (unless you've got a lab you regularly use or you're doing something tricky) having the film developed while you're on vacation. This eliminates the return half of the problem.

Greg,

Thanks so much for your reply. I feel better, I'm sure he will too. He also has a Nikon.

We may consider shipping the exposed film back to my office with the laptop, since it will probably cost a fortune to develop it in Hawaii.

Again thanks much!

Mary

I think you will be okay. I requested hand checking of my camera equipment, and while the Argen-not-bright personnel and their supervisors said that they weren't going to do it, the gentlemen with the M-16s told did it for them and told them that they had to.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mdtony:
I think you will be okay. I requested hand checking of my camera equipment, and while the Argen-not-bright personnel and their supervisors said that they weren't going to do it, the gentlemen with the M-16s told did it for them and told them that they had to.</font>

Interesting. There was a report elsewhere that a security person would not allow a nail clipper to pass, even after the FAA removed the prohibition. Mr. M-16 said that he agreed with the passenger that it a nailclipper was a permitted item, but nonetheless could not allow the person to continue unless the security person said it was okay.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Mary2e:
Greg,

Thanks so much for your reply. I feel better, I'm sure he will too. He also has a Nikon.

We may consider shipping the exposed film back to my office with the laptop, since it will probably cost a fortune to develop it in Hawaii.

Again thanks much!

Mary</font>
Your attitude will go a long way in what you can expect I believe, they have plenty of hassles and don't mind dishing out some. I don't think you will have a problem, they will not disassemble the camera but I have been asked to remove the lens for them from time to time way before the 11th. No security guard has ever attempted to do so themselves, I wouldn't worry about that.

What I did want to reply to was the concept of sending the film back. Make sure it's in a lead bag if you are mailing it, or ask to be sure it doesn't get the irradiation treatment they are finding is fairly useless against what they are trying to kill.

There are security hassles, but if you are willing to cooperate with them and don't get upset all will be fine. You will not be the first person with a camera and film they have seen since the 11th.

One good thing about Newark - Security was quick a few weeks ago and the lines not bad at all, but check in was a nightmare, so if you don't have status to get in the shorter line leave plenty of time. I was at United's counter.

I've often run flim through X-rays five or six times without a problem. I don't use cheap stuff either; usually Kodak 160VC. (In fact I buy it cheap in NYC and stick it in my carryons without thinking twice.) If there's a certain kind of film that's especially susceptible to X-rays I'd like to know about it.

I do try to take my film through as few X-ray machines as necessary. But in my experience there is little need to worry.

Mary,

Depending on your local developing costs, it may not be too expensive to develop film in Hawaii. There are numerous busineses that develop film, including Costco (on Maui and I assume Oahu).

Some research I did prior to a post-9/11 trip indicates that some of the new high-power X-ray machines for scanning checked luggage can damage even consumer film, so it's better to send your film through the carry-on X-ray. Even there, repeated exposures to X-rays can slowly cause undeveloped film to fog.

On that recent trip, I had 8 rolls of film. Of the 8 rolls, 2 rolls were instant cameras which consistently had to go through the carry-on X-ray machine. The other 6 rolls I was able to get hand-inspected about half the time (3 hand inspections out of 6 flight boardings). I suppose I could have insisted on my rights to have a supervisor hand inspect, but if the personnel pushed back, I chose not to push too hard. I saw no artifacts on the prints from any of these rolls.

I had contemplated mailing rolls of film back to myself as one possible solution. Another would have been to have the film developed but not printed at the ultimate destination. I rejected both as being expensive and too much of a pain given that I was overseas.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Mary2e:

We may consider shipping the exposed film back to my office with the laptop, since it will probably cost a fortune to develop it in Hawaii.
</font>

Mary--actually, processing/printing here isn't that much more expensive than Mainland cities, and probably comparable to labs in NYC. There's an excellent lab called Photoplant in the Blackfield Building on Kapiolani Blvd. near Ala Moana Shopping Center that many of the professionals here use...so you might want to consider that option.

Enjoy your visit, and thank you for agreeing to disburse some of your disposable income on our island. We need it http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Aloha.

I've had film fogged. Asking for hand inspections resulted in a list of rules being pulled out by the screamers! Local processing can often be very good and it is very enjoyable to have your photos quickly.

I agree that attitude makes a difference, but if you have a tyrant 'screamer', you just have to stand there and take it.

How much longer do we have to put up with amateurs in charge of our security?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by cordelli:


Mary</font>
Your attitude will go a long way in what you can expect I believe, they have plenty of hassles and don't mind dishing out some
[/B]

I could agree with you IF...the screener could speak English. I went through OHare a day or two before the seven knives crap. When my bag was searched, this guy pulled out my 1/4 inch long eveglass screw driver (you know, the kind that comes with a magnifying glass just so you can see it) and ke kept saying weapon weapon weapon. I said no and asked him to explain. He smiled and said "no English"!

What a country!!!!!!!!!!!! You have to love Argenbright!!!!!!

Dosent matter anyway, all this security crap is window dressing to get non flyers back into the air. They want to sell Thanksgiving and Christmas tickets.

You can put a hundred minimum wage untrained nonEnglish speaking people at every check point in the country and it is only for show. But remember, it is safer than driving.

And, by the way, the flimsy plastic knives to spread creame cheese on bagels...what a joke.

Need to control who gets to the planes from the back..catering, cleaning etc. and packages going to the stores in the airport malls and scan every piece of checked baggage and harden every cockpit door and put 2 sky marahals on every plane.

In the meantime, those of us who fly for a living will just have to grin and bare it http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Sorry for the rant.

Don't apologize for the rant. I refuse to fly because I'm totally disgusted with this security mess. How many shots to the foot will it take for the airlines to realize they have to streamline the process? OBL must be rolling on the ground (caves don't have floors http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif)laughing at our "enhanced security". Going through people's underwear is NOT the solution, just an indication of the problem. Maybe they could just stamp your forehead in place of all those ID checks.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mikey1003:


Dosent matter anyway, all this security crap is window dressing to get non flyers back into the air. They want to sell Thanksgiving and Christmas tickets.

</font>

It's not working. I don't know how many people took guns on board or got through with knives before, it wasn't a national news item then, it is now. It may be happening 90% less then it did two months ago, but every incident will be front page news.

If they want people back onboard, then they have to eliminate the lines, and make people feel secure. It doesn't take a genius to figure out if yo are going to make people stand in line for an extra hour or two, and then still let weapons through, they are not going to feel secure, and even worse, they will feel it's just not worth the hassle.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by cordelli:
It's not working. I don't know how many people took guns on board or got through with knives before, it wasn't a national news item then, it is now. It may be happening 90% less then it did two months ago, but every incident will be front page news.

If they want people back onboard, then they have to eliminate the lines, and make people feel secure. It doesn't take a genius to figure out if yo are going to make people stand in line for an extra hour or two, and then still let weapons through, they are not going to feel secure, and even worse, they will feel it's just not worth the hassle.

</font>


Amen!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Mary2e:

Of course, we don't care if they go through the stuff - they can be our guests. BUT, if one of these guys take the cover off the camera body & touch the mirror, my husband just may throw a fit. He's told me that it can be damaged by someone touching that mirror. Is the airline/security taking responsibility for damaging property?

</font>

I would guess not. They can probably claim whatever sort of security exigencies they want to or insist that it looked "suspicious" and get away with it in the current environment.

Which isn't to say that you don't have recourse, just that the damage will have already been done at that point.

JD

Hi Everyone,

Well, we're back. AND, it WAS interesting getting the film through security at Newark.

My husband pre packaged about 30 rolls of film in ziplock bags. Going through security he handed the bags and asked for a hand check. Rocket scientist security screener said that only 1000 speed film or higher got hand screened & refused. Hubby said that it was his right to have it hand checked. Screener said no it isn't. Hubby asks for supervisor, screener REFUSES to call one. National Guardsman comes over. HE calls the supervisor, who hand checks the film & lets us pass (he sympathized, indicating that he was also an ameteur photographer). Rocket scientist screener doesn't look to happy. Hubby was EXTREMELY polite entire time.

At the gate, Hubby was selected (of course) to have his camera bag checked. He had 1 body, 2 lenses, and god knows how much other camera crap in that bag & they took about 15 minutes to open every single thing. No problem here, but it seemed like an awful waste of time for everyone involved.

What did we do with the film on the way home? It was mailed back. Worth every penny we paid, since the Honolulu airport only had 1 security line at 7pm, and the crews took priority going through.

Mary

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Steve M:
Interesting. There was a report elsewhere that a security person would not allow a nail clipper to pass, even after the FAA removed the prohibition. Mr. M-16 said that he agreed with the passenger that it a nailclipper was a permitted item, but nonetheless could not allow the person to continue unless the security person said it was okay.</font>

Who knows why this happened? It could be that some guys with the guns are more proactive than others and don't like the Argen-not-bright maroons any more than you or I do.

This guy was rolling his eyes at the Argen-not-bright maroons before I even asked for his help, so he may have wanted a reason to rip into them.

I can't wait until those jokers are back on the street working for McDonald's -- if McDonald's will lower their standards.