Other European Frequent Flyer Programs - "Finnair" Long-Haul/Gateway Fresh Lounge in HEL

Here's a little bit of scenario: I was flying HEL-LHR on BA794 a couple of weeks ago and tried to access the lounges after the passport control on the non-Schengen side using my AA Platinum card (=OW Sapphire). Was denied access on the grounds that I was not flying on an AY flight and the oneworld Sapphire/Emerald lounge access benefits apply only if one flies on an AY flight, OR, in case of BA flight, one has BA Silver/Gold. I don't know what would happen if one flew on BA metal but with AY flight number, or on AY metal but AA/QF flight number or something more exotic.

I subsequently emailed the Finnair customer service and got a very nice letter stating that that is indeed the case: no access to (non-BA) oneworld cardholders unless flying on AY. Apparently the lounge is not operated by AY but rather by Gateway Restaurants. However, I would have had access to the Finnair-operated lounges *before* the passport control.

Of course this will have a negligible effect for most people as the only non-AY oneworld are the two daily BA flights to LHR... The funny thing is that it clearly states outside the lounge "Oneworld Sapphire" etc.

One question: Where were you headed (Asia?) and did you already have a BP for this segment? What was your connection time to burn on lounges?

One question: Where were you headed (Asia?) and did you already have a BP for this segment? What was your connection time to burn on lounges?

I was actually heading back to BOS (HEL-LHR [BA] and LHR-BOS [AA]) and I had my BP. I wasn't connecting and I arrived there maybe 1 h before departure. In hindsight, it was idiotic of me to go through passport control, but I was assuming I would be admitted to the lounge since I was OW Sapphire and I was flying on an OW flight. The lounge dragon told me that I would be able to use Finnair-operated lounges but they are all on the Schengen side (ergo: go through passport control etc. again).

I am fully aware that the long-haul lounge is for long-haul J passengers and OW Emeralds (right side), but at least the Gateway Fresh lounge should have been accessible (left side).

This is one of the annoying aspects of HEL as an airport. Take solace in that you didn't miss much, it is a very bare-bones lounge with minimal drink choices (and all very cheap, no drinkable scotch or cognac for example), and seating that is not much different from the terminal public areas. It isn't like the BA lounges at LHR, and any AC would beat it for amenities.

This is one of the annoying aspects of HEL as an airport. Take solace in that you didn't miss much, it is a very bare-bones lounge with minimal drink choices (and all very cheap, no drinkable scotch or cognac for example), and seating that is not much different from the terminal public areas. It isn't like the BA lounges at LHR, and any AC would beat it for amenities.

But it would have spared me the three euros I spent on Ilta-Sanomat and coffee... :D I've been to this lounge many a time, but always on an AY flight. I quite agree with you that it's not like Terraces or CX lounge at LHR, but still vastly superior to the decrepit piece of c*ap at BOS (Admiral's Club - yeah right). Some ACs are quite decent, though: e.g. ORD, DFW Terminal D, and JFK Terminal 9.

One further sign of their cheapness is the lack of computers on the Gateway Fresh side.

I was actually heading back to BOS (HEL-LHR [BA] and LHR-BOS [AA]) and I had my BP. I wasn't connecting and I arrived there maybe 1 h before departure. In hindsight, it was idiotic of me to go through passport control, but I was assuming I would be admitted to the lounge since I was OW Sapphire and I was flying on an OW flight. The lounge dragon told me that I would be able to use Finnair-operated lounges but they are all on the Schengen side (ergo: go through passport control etc. again).


On the other hand, immigration there takes a few seconds unless you're unlucky to arrive just after a MD11 from China. And there is no security check either when heading back to the non-schengen area so when bounced from the non-schengen lounge you'll be in the golden gate -lounge in about a minute...

On the other hand, I've never understood why airlines and alliances make so many rules and exceptions to their policies that a normal frequent traveller like me has absolutely no way of knowing what I'm allowed to do and where I'm allowed to go. Why can't they keep it simple like "OW emerald + OW airline = lounge access everywhere to any lounge that welcomes any OW airline". The costs caused by this really can't be significant as the masses meet exactly that criterium on every airport in the world.

/hv

This is one of the annoying aspects of HEL as an airport. Take solace in that you didn't miss much, it is a very bare-bones lounge with minimal drink choices (and all very cheap, no drinkable scotch or cognac for example), and seating that is not much different from the terminal public areas. It isn't like the BA lounges at LHR, and any AC would beat it for amenities.

The new emerald lounge isn't that bad, except of course for the drinks as you mentioned. It's spacious and comfortable and has all the usual facilities, too. But their whisky is some blended stuff, cognac too. Tanqueray gin is your best choice there, at least it is mine...

Does AC mean AA admirals clubs? I just visited one in November on my way from Miami to Panama City. I was more or less shocked when I realised at MIA that they really serve only tea and biscuits free of charge and all alcoholic stuff must be bought at the bar. Or is the bar there just for a bloody tourist like me and the free bottles of 30yo whisky are just hidden somewhere out of sight?

/hv

Does AC mean AA admirals clubs? I just visited one in November on my way from Miami to Panama City. I was more or less shocked when I realised at MIA that they really serve only tea and biscuits free of charge and all alcoholic stuff must be bought at the bar. Or is the bar there just for a bloody tourist like me and the free bottles of 30yo whisky are just hidden somewhere out of sight?

/hv

1) Yes, AC = Admirals Club

2) The bar is there precisely for bloody tourists like yourself ;) Actually, all the ACs in the USA have cash-bars... very sad for all of us :td:

2a) If you used your status to access the AC, you should've been given 2 drink coupons... of course, sometimes you have to request them, or else the dragons might not volunteer them.

1) Yes, AC = Admirals Club

2) The bar is there precisely for bloody tourists like yourself ;) Actually, all the ACs in the USA have cash-bars... very sad for all of us :td:

2a) If you used your status to access the AC, you should've been given 2 drink coupons... of course, sometimes you have to request them, or else the dragons might not volunteer them.

I had a C flight MIA-PTY and a BA gold/OW emerald card and I didn't get any coupons. I'll have to ask them nicely next time.

I just didn't understand the comment blaming the AY lounge at HEL bad because its free booze is of low quality, which definitely is true, but preferring the ACs with no free stuff whatsoever.

/hv

I had a C flight MIA-PTY and a BA gold/OW emerald card and I didn't get any coupons. I'll have to ask them nicely next time.

I just didn't understand the comment blaming the AY lounge at HEL bad because its free booze is of low quality, which definitely is true, but preferring the ACs with no free stuff whatsoever.

/hv

Also don't forget that the 'free' drinks are not 'free' even if you got the coupons since you do have to tip the bartender! I usually leave $1, most people seem to be handing out $1-2 for their drinks.

Also don't forget that the 'free' drinks are not 'free' even if you got the coupons since you do have to tip the bartender! I usually leave $1, most people seem to be handing out $1-2 for their drinks.
You're kidding, right? :confused:

No, he's not.

You're kidding, right? :confused:

Well, even though your drink is free, you are still being served by a real server who expects to be tipped. Most AC customers are there on a paid membership who also pay cash for their drinks and tip according to the usual US custom (15-20%, $1 minimum). I have no clue what the practice is in non-US ACs (e.g. LHR).

Well, even though your drink is free, you are still being served by a real server who expects to be tipped. Most AC customers are there on a paid membership who also pay cash for their drinks and tip according to the usual US custom (15-20%, $1 minimum). I have no clue what the practice is in non-US ACs (e.g. LHR).

And don't forget, while we all pay a premium of some sort to be in the AC, that bartender is probably there on minimum wage or less... and for most of us, the $1 is more important to him/her than to us.

And don't forget, while we all pay a premium of some sort to be in the AC, that bartender is probably there on minimum wage or less... and for most of us, the $1 is more important to him/her than to us.

It's not a matter of money but principle. As an European traveller I haven't got used to paying for stuff & service at a lounge. When I get into one, it's then a hassle free place where I don't have to think about mundane matters like "how much I should tip this guy". While in Europe and Asia the airlines seem to add more free stuff to their F/J lounges, in USA it seems to be going to a completely different direction making the lounge basically only an extension of the normal waiting hall with a minimal access control.

/hv

It's not a matter of money but principle. As an European traveller I haven't got used to paying for stuff & service at a lounge. When I get into one, it's then a hassle free place where I don't have to think about mundane matters like "how much I should tip this guy". While in Europe and Asia the airlines seem to add more free stuff to their F/J lounges, in USA it seems to be going to a completely different direction making the lounge basically only an extension of the normal waiting hall with a minimal access control.

/hv

When in Rome... ;)

This is another difference in perception. I actually think nothing of it to pull out $1 and put it on the counter... not a hassle at all. I understand it if you're not used to doing it. But still... is it so bad to follow the customs of the country visited?

And don't forget, while we all pay a premium of some sort to be in the AC, that bartender is probably there on minimum wage or less... and for most of us, the $1 is more important to him/her than to us.
I see... So it's like a contribution to the lacking social security system...

I see... So it's like a contribution to the lacking social security system...

Call it what you will... that's the reality. So are you going to not give the bartender $1 because of the country's lack of social welfare?

Call it what you will... that's the reality. So are you going to not give the bartender $1 because of the country's lack of social welfare?
My promise to you: the next time I'm in the AC, I'll hand the bartender a $ bill together with my drink chit. I don't want to mess with Americans... :D

My promise to you: the next time I'm in the AC, I'll hand the bartender a $ bill together with my drink chit. I don't want to mess with Americans... :D

Yeah, you see what happens to others who don't play nice with US :p
(We install McDonald's and Starbucks and let THEM take over :D)

I'm sure the bartender will thank you ^. Come by an AC near me and heck, I might even cover your tip! :)

When in Rome... ;)

When in Rome indeed... :rolleyes:

I would just hope that some N.American tourists would understand this when they come over here and stop "corrupting" our service culture. And yes, this should apply even in some of those places of Europe where "service-culture" is nearly non-existent ;) :D

When in Rome... ;)

This is another difference in perception. I actually think nothing of it to pull out $1 and put it on the counter... not a hassle at all. I understand it if you're not used to doing it. But still... is it so bad to follow the customs of the country visited?

Of course I do it elsewhere in the US without even noticing a thing but airport lounges are a different story. I'll pay a hefty premium for my F tickets and expect to get service in return instead of having to pay for absolutely everything on top of the ticket price.

Somehow they manage to do that everywhere else in the world.

/hv

This is one of the annoying aspects of HEL as an airport. Take solace in that you didn't miss much, it is a very bare-bones lounge with minimal drink choices (and all very cheap, no drinkable scotch or cognac for example), and seating that is not much different from the terminal public areas. It isn't like the BA lounges at LHR, and any AC would beat it for amenities.

How can you honestly point out the cheap drinks as most ACs in US only offer water and pretzels...? And there still is the Golden Gate lounge for all OW Sapphires just outside passport control (which takes, like others have mentioned, usually less than a minute to pass).

This topic sure is getting really exciting. When I compare the lounges that AY use on their HEL-JFK route, ie. the longhaul lounge @ HEL and AC @ JFK, it is very difficult for me to understand why the Americans here seem to find it preferable to have a lounge where you have access to two slow computers (one of which probably doesn't work anyway) and you are served free carrots and drinks that you have the privilege of paying for whereas the inferior lounge offers free hot and cold drinks (okay, perhaps not the finest whiskey on earth...), newspapers in several languages, a variety of salty and sweet snacks etc.

Maybe it is a question of culture as some of you pointed out. However, I completely share your opinions, hvisti. When I visited the AC @ JFK for the first time, I too was shocked for the lack of anything to eat (okay, you can BUY expensive sandwiches) and the fact that you have to stand in line to get something to drink!

And by the way, I just visited the new AC @ JFK terminal 9. Apart from being larger in size it was hardly better than the one in terminal 8.

Of course I do it elsewhere in the US without even noticing a thing but airport lounges are a different story. I'll pay a hefty premium for my F tickets and expect to get service in return instead of having to pay for absolutely everything on top of the ticket price.

Somehow they manage to do that everywhere else in the world.

/hv

Exactly!

If I dine in a restaurant in the US, then I'm tipping the usual 15-20%. No problem there, it's so to say part of the deal. No tips means Mickey Dee... :)

But if my airline gives me access to a lounge (remember, the airline is paying the lounge for my visit) and offers me complimentary drinks in the form of coupons, then I really consider them free. Having said that, I never tip the AC bartenders (I use my coupons for botteld water mostly). I see it as AY's obligation to tip the bartenders should they find it necessary.

Maybe it is a question of culture as some of you pointed out. However, I completely share your opinions, hvisti. When I visited the AC @ JFK for the first time, I too was shocked for the lack of anything to eat (okay, you can BUY expensive sandwiches) and the fact that you have to stand in line to get something to drink!

But you can't possible have the booze freely available in a US lounge! God knows, maybe a minor might sneak in and grab himself a beer (or wine or something stronger, heaven forbid)... :D

On the other hand, immigration there takes a few seconds unless you're unlucky to arrive just after a MD11 from China. And there is no security check either when heading back to the non-schengen area so when bounced from the non-schengen lounge you'll be in the golden gate -lounge in about a minute...

What if one is coming in on that MD11 from China (in C class)?

There are 2 AC lounges at JFK, and one of them is brand new and much nicer than any lounge at HEL (in terms of furniture, space, decor and ambiance). Even the bar is nicer, and drinks are free for international travel (actually for all travel for some of us, the reason for my double Emerald). The lounge that AY uses happens to be destined to be torn down, so it hasn't had any renovation for the past 5 years. Most ACs have good computer and other business facilities, and things like showers (no showers in the HEL lounges that I have had access to). Sure the AC approach of being a membership club is annoying, but for OW emerald/sapphire status it works quite well and rank in the top half of OW lounges world-wide. Quite a few BA lounges are worse than the AC, for example (only the Terraces are better).

What if one is coming in on that MD11 from China (in C class)?

That reminds me of a scenario which is totally possible: suppose you arrive from outside the Schengen area (say, Russia/China/Japan/Thailand) and you are a citizen of a country needing a visa to enter the Schengen countries (say, China/Russia etc.). If you are connecting to a BA flight, there is in fact no lounge one could visit if one doesn't have a Schengen visa (or BA Silver/Gold), and I'm pretty certain that no Schengen country will issue a visa to "visit the airport lounge" - not to mention the cost/effort.

Hi there

"Schengen" I have noticed this in other threads (and on the AY website), but I don't know what it means, can anyone point me in the right direction?

I have AY flights booked for May 06 SIN-HEL-LHR, what lounge access in HEL is permitted with OW Sapphire?

Also while i have your attention, what are AY's upgrade policies?

Cheers
vflyer

Hi there

"Schengen" I have noticed this in other threads (and on the AY website), but I don't know what it means, can anyone point me in the right direction?

I have AY flights booked for May 06 SIN-HEL-LHR, what lounge access in HEL is permitted with OW Sapphire?

Also while i have your attention, what are AY's upgrade policies?

Cheers
vflyer

Schengen is a city in the Netherlands, a place where an agreement about passport free travel between participating countries was signed.

Currently the Schengen countries are the old EU (except UK and Ireland) + outside EU countries Norway, Iceland ans Switzerland.

What it means is that when you enter this area, you'll go through immigration once when entering and leaving, at the point of entry and departure. So anyone coming from the far east with AY and going to Germany must go through immigration at HEL but not again in Germany. The flight HEL-xxx in Germany is considered domestic.

So at international airports there are two areas: schengen/non-schengen. Easily understood by a foreigner as international/domestic. Except that "domestic" means flights to all schengen countries. All flights to/from non-schengen countries then depart from the non-schengen area and there is immigration between these two areas.



Both your flights use the non-schengen area at HEL because UK is not part of the treaty. As an OW sapphire (assuming it is a British Airways card) you can use the business class lounge on non-schengen side. The entrance to both of the lounges is the same. Just go there and check in with your BB/card and they'll wave you to the correct lounge.

About AY upgrades.. don't have a clue as I don't use AY for long haul as they don't have a first class...

/hv

Both your flights use the non-schengen area at HEL because UK is not part of the treaty. As an OW sapphire (assuming it is a British Airways card) you can

/hv

Just noticed your location. I'm not sure about a Qantas card. Probably they will let you in there (non-schengen area lounge) with that as you're on AY flight. If not, then ask whether you're permitted to the gateway lounge on the Schengen side. If so, just go through immigration and follow the transfers sign (i.e. don't go down the escalator to the baggage claim area but just enter the door after immigration on your left hand side). No one wants to see your boarding pass when entering the schengen area and there isn't even a security check so this is a perfectly "legal" way of doing it, nothing fishy in it. The lounge they'll definitely let you in is located above gate 25, about 150 meters from the immigration point. When your flight to LHR is about to depart, just head back where you came from, show your passport and off you go.

/hv

Finnair's upgrade policy: in case of overbookings, which don't happen very often, they upgrade their own top elites to C.

The longhaul C cabin actually consists of two separate cabins, the latter of which consists of rows 6-7 (in old C) just in front of the Y cabin. If they don't have many C passengers, they tend to seat them all in rows 1-5 and give rows 6-7 to their own elites, but service in these "upgraded" rows in this case is standard economy service, not C.

With a Quantas card I can hardly see the possibility of getting an upgrade.

and [AC]rank in the top half of OW lounges world-wide.

This must be the joke of the day! :D

The flight HEL-xxx in Germany is considered domestic.That is a dangerous simplification, I'm afraid. The leg is definitely not considered domestic. You need a passport or an EU-issued special id card with limited validity to travel between Schengen countries. On a real domestic flights you can use any official id, eg. your driving license and with some countries/airlines you don't even need an id at all.

That is a dangerous simplification, I'm afraid. The leg is definitely not considered domestic. You need a passport or an EU-issued special id card with limited validity to travel between Schengen countries. On a real domestic flights you can use any official id, eg. your driving license and with some countries/airlines you don't even need an id at all.

This is of course true but to avoid too lengthy an explanation for someone who'll have a passport with him anyway. Also in practice no one except the airline will check your id on intra-schengen travel and what is an acceptable ID to an airline seems to depend greatly on airline and situation. Even my company id badge has been ok less than a year ago.

So yes, you do need an id to travel between the schengen countries. Actually, in some schengen countries you need to have an id always with you if leaving home. In practice, no one but the airline staff wants to see it. But for our Australian friend asking the question this is hardly an issue.

/hv

Hi there

Thanks for the info, I will be travelling with the following documentation,

a: UK Passport
b: Australian resident permit
c: AA AAdvantage Platinum Card

So the above information is still valid :confused:

Cheers
vflyer

Hi there

Thanks for the info, I will be travelling with the following documentation,

a: UK Passport
b: Australian resident permit
c: AA AAdvantage Platinum Card

So the above information is still valid :confused:

Cheers
vflyer
I don't claim to be an expert of EU-regulations, but AFAIK if you have a British (EU) passport, you should have no problem in EU countries. Just keep your passport with you when you travel.

Regarding lounge access as AA plat I leave it to others to answer.

Hi there

Thanks for the info, I will be travelling with the following documentation,

a: UK Passport
b: Australian resident permit
c: AA AAdvantage Platinum Card

So the above information is still valid :confused:

Cheers
vflyer

Sure.

At HEL you'll most likely to be admitted to the OW sapphire lounge on non-schengen side as you've got an AY boarding pass so no need to go anywhere else. The non-schengen area is smallish and there is only one lounge entrance next to gate 33. And if they for some reason bounce you, then ask about the other lounges on the schengen side and they'll direct you to the correct place. You'll just have to show your passport before getting there but as an EU citizen it will take you about 4,2 seconds.

/hv

Finnair's upgrade policy: in case of overbookings, which don't happen very often, they upgrade their own top elites to C.

The longhaul C cabin actually consists of two separate cabins, the latter of which consists of rows 6-7 (in old C) just in front of the Y cabin. If they don't have many C passengers, they tend to seat them all in rows 1-5 and give rows 6-7 to their own elites, but service in these "upgraded" rows in this case is standard economy service, not C.

With a Quantas card I can hardly see the possibility of getting an upgrade.

This is ofcourse partly true, but to my understanding AY upgrades people more based on fare class (Y,B,H fares) than actually by simply checking the AY/OW status. I'd bet that a Qantas Ruby with a Y-ticket will be upgraded before an AY Sapphire with a Q-ticket...

This is ofcourse partly true, but to my understanding AY upgrades people more based on fare class (Y,B,H fares) than actually by simply checking the AY/OW status. I'd bet that a Qantas Ruby with a Y-ticket will be upgraded before an AY Sapphire with a Q-ticket...

My only data point on this was 18 months ago in the summer, traveling with my wife and 1 yr old. My wife and kid were on coach awards (both with no status), I was on a paid V coach ticket (AA EXP = OW Emerald status).

The whole lot of us were op-up'd at JFK to row 6 (nice seats, coach meals). ^ ^ ^ Result: Everyone slept, everyone was happy, got some great pix of the 1-year old in his car seat in J :D

We'll see what happens this summer, we've added one more kid to the mix... :eek: ;)

Sami

My only data point on this was 18 months ago in the summer, traveling with my wife and 1 yr old. My wife and kid were on coach awards (both with no status), I was on a paid V coach ticket (AA EXP = OW Emerald status).

The whole lot of us were op-up'd at JFK to row 6 (nice seats, coach meals). ^ ^ ^ Result: Everyone slept, everyone was happy, got some great pix of the 1-year old in his car seat in J :D

We'll see what happens this summer, we've added one more kid to the mix... :eek: ;)

Sami

Good to hear you had a nice experience with AY. I won't say that status has no relevancy but it's not the only factor here, this has been, as I mentioned, stated by AY themselves. This also isn't the first time I hear AY has treated non-AY (!!??) OW-elites better than their own elites...maybe they just think that Finns have to fly with us anyway and let's try be as nice as possible to other nationalities who are lucky enough to have more choices... ;)

Good to hear you had a nice experience with AY. I won't say that status has no relevancy but it's not the only factor here, this has been, as I mentioned, stated by AY themselves. This also isn't the first time I hear AY has treated non-AY (!!??) OW-elites better than their own elites...maybe they just think that Finns have to fly with us anyway and let's try be as nice as possible to other nationalities who are lucky enough to have more choices...

Hi there

Just checked in (at MAN) for AY97 HEL-SIN tonight, and got seat 5J ^
So it appears OW elites of airlines other than AY maybe better looked after.

First op-up for quite a while :)

Cheers
vflyer

I have been upgraded on AY several times holding a really cheap Y ticket, so I am quite sure it is more about the status than the price of the ticket. The only problem withmy observation is that I almost always travel in J anyway, so they dont have the chance to upgrade.

Hi there

Just checked in (at MAN) for AY97 HEL-SIN tonight, and got seat 5J ^
So it appears OW elites of airlines other than AY maybe better looked after.

First op-up for quite a while :)

Cheers
vflyer

CX and AY are the best in terms of op-ups for AA elites flying on an alliance partner.

Been upgraded as AA Gold (Ruby) to J on an "Akkilahdot" ticket, again on a O-class ticket to row 6.

As AA Plat once to J (O-class) and maybe 6-7 times to J seats with C meals. All A/O/N class, so I'd be VERY surprised if booked class plays any role.

All BKK or JFK flights.

Been upgraded as AA Gold (Ruby) to J on an "Akkilahdot" ticket, again on a O-class ticket to row 6.

As AA Plat once to J (O-class) and maybe 6-7 times to J seats with C meals. All A/O/N class, so I'd be VERY surprised if booked class plays any role.

All BKK or JFK flights.

Trust me, it does.

This information comes directly from Finnair's operative capasity management, they say it's about 50/50 status/booking class. With AA etc. non-AY OW elite cards, you are just getting the best of things with many AY elites sitting in the back.

Schengen is a city in the Netherlands, a place where an agreement about passport free travel between participating countries was signed.

Currently the Schengen countries are the old EU (except UK and Ireland) + outside EU countries Norway, Iceland ans Switzerland.



Unless I am mistaken, passport free travel between Switzerland and other Schengen countries has not been implemented yet and will not be before the end of 2006.