Travel Technology - OT: When to buy a new HDTV in N. Am.?

I have a hankering to buy a HDTV. Having done some research, I want one with a built-in tuner as 2 local stations (have a clear LoS to the broadcast antennae) in Canada have HD broadcast signals. I am also too cheap to pay for cable and any going to be using the tv to watch the few HDTV shows I can get and DVDs.

Most of the cheaper sets (under USD900) being offered don't have tuners. BestBuy likes to call them HDTV-ready and other retailers have the stock disclaimer that you need a HD source, while yet others call them HD monitors). I understand that come July, all HDTVs sold in the U.S. are required to be equipped with tuners. Would it be better to wait until the second half of the year to pick up a HDTV in that case?

Were I you, I'd get one of the very inexpensive 32" LCD TVs ($599 or so) that are out there and simply get an external tuner box for it. You can find those for anywhere from $100-$200 or possibly snag a used one on Ebay for less. That way you don't have to wait and don't spend a fortune.

I don't see that much benefit of getting the built-in tuner. If the set that you prefer has one, fine. If not, get a set top box, preferrably from the same manufacturer if they make a decent one, so you can use a single remote to control the monitor and the STB.

When I lived in Florida, I had a Samsung DLP and a Samsung STB. I still have the monitor but I sold the STB to somebody that wanted it on the AVS forum.

I guess one of the drawbacks of the STB is that you need an extra connector on the back of the monitor. My Samsung DLP only has a single DVI input, so I used a DVI switch. Yeah, that was a PITA, so just make sure you're monitor has enough digital inputs.

-David

Were I you, I'd get one of the very inexpensive 32" LCD TVs ($599 or so) that are out there and simply get an external tuner box for it. You can find those for anywhere from $100-$200 or possibly snag a used one on Ebay for less. That way you don't have to wait and don't spend a fortune.
Those are probably not HDTV, more likely EDTV (lower resolution).

An off-air tuner box that receives and decodes HDTV is going to cost $150-200.
For example, do a Google search on "HUMAX Digital Tuner HDTV".
If you want to watch off-air DTV stations, get a DTV receiver with a digital tuner.

I would avoid buying an HDTV with a tuner built in if you want to save money right now. It will only become dated as future generation ATSC chips come out. You will be able to get a much better quality HDTV-ready set that way. Look at the Sharp Aquos line in particular for LCD.

Samsung makes some excellent OTA tuners on the old SIR-TS151 and SIR-TS160 boxes (160 has a DirecTV tuner in it also which a moot point in Van.). Newer OTA model is the SIR-TS161.

To start off, you could always get an ATI HDTV Wonder card for about US$140 if you have a PC within cable stringing distance of the TV.

You can hook up via component, HDMI or DVI depending on all the TV supports. All HDTV/HDTV-ready sets currently support component, along with one/both of the other two inputs and the picture difference is entirely negligible between the 3.

Those are probably not HDTV, more likely EDTV (lower resolution).

No, they're HDTV. Lowest resolution one I've seen is 1280x720. It's not full spec but it's definitely better than EDTV (852x480).

The cheapest DTV tuner option would be to go on Ebay and buy an old Voom box. They go for under $50 and work just fine. Make sure the seller states it is ACTIVATED. If the box dies, no problem, toss it. Also, for $150, you can buy a USDTV box at Wal Mart. They're closing 'em out but I've seen them at two stores. They're very basic but do the trick.

I disagree with purchasing a TV with an integrated ATSC HD tuner. Such TVs are MUCH more expensive. Yes they're higher quality but you can't beat the value proposition of a 32" flat screen HDTV with tuner for under $1,100. (I was wrong, the 26"ers are $600 or so, the 32" are $1000 or so. this (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?ref=froogle&pfp=froogle&product_code=332803&cm_ven=froogle&cm_cat=&cm_pla=&cm_ite=feed) is a pretty amazing deal on one though.) NO flat TV of like size is available with an in-built ATSC tuner for anywhere near that price.

Regardless of tuner v. box, be sure your new TV has an HDMI input. If you're going to be watching a lot of DVDs, that will allow you to use the new generation of up-converting DVD players to give you HDTV quality off DVDs.

Regardless of tuner v. box, be sure your new TV has an HDMI input. If you're going to be watching a lot of DVDs, that will allow you to use the new generation of up-converting DVD players to give you HDTV quality off DVDs.
To risk going OT, you will get an upconverted HDTV resolution that may or may not look better on your given TV than 480p (if you have a progressive player). You can't get magically produce 720p/1080i native quality from the native 480i bits on the DVD.

I disagree with purchasing a TV with an integrated ATSC HD tuner. Such TVs are MUCH more expensive. Yes they're higher quality but you can't beat the value proposition of a 32" flat screen HDTV with tuner for under $1,100. (I was wrong, the 26"ers are $600 or so, the 32" are $1000 or so. this (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?ref=froogle&pfp=froogle&product_code=332803&cm_ven=froogle&cm_cat=&cm_pla=&cm_ite=feed) is a pretty amazing deal on one though.) NO flat TV of like size is available with an in-built ATSC tuner for anywhere near that price.
This (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11069085&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=) is one of the cheaper 32 inch boxes with integrated tuner available from costco. The prices just seem to keep dropping.

THAT is a hell of a deal for a TV with CableCard. I simply don't understand the price delta between non-ATSC TVs and ATSC TVs. The tuner portion can't cost more than $75 and probably costs less. I suppose it's just "charge what you can while you can". As good as that deal is, the $899 for the Viewsonic 32" I linked to plus $150 for an external tuner is still a huge savings considering the OP doesn't and won't have cable.

No the tuner is actually more like a $17 dollar addition in real terms and dropping fast.

Thanks for all the tips. There's so many models right now and I'm waiting for some point where LCDs or plasmas become more affordable.

No the tuner is actually more like a $17 dollar addition in real terms and dropping fast.

That's what I imagine will happen when compulsory tuners are required next week, at least for 25-36" units (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-190A1.pdf). I guess manufacturers may be tryng to clear out "HDTV-ready" stock. All tvs are required to have integrated digital tuners in justa year's time.

footnote: I was going to buy a Toshiba tube widescreen but it seems quality and reliability are poor (it's not even made by Toshiba).

I don't think that FCC order means what you're saying. I think that means that all televisions with a tuner must have a digital tuner. You can still sell monitors with no tuner. Otherwise, large monitors like the Dell 3007WFP and Apple Cinema Display would require tuners.

Exactly, selling as monitors with no tuners is still allowed.

$899 for a 32" TV is VERY affordable. We've hit the point where LCD is priced similarly to CRT. Samsung 30" CRT TVs are $899. The Sony 34" CRT is $1050 or so. The price points won't change as time goes on but you will get more for your money. So, by this time next year, a 42" Plasma should be around $899 although that'll be an EDTV model.

IMO a consumer oriented TV with internal tuner will never be less expensive than a "monitor" which needs an external box. The plasma market is rife with this. The "monitor" version will be $1800, and the consumer version with the same panel will be $3200. In some cases, the consumer version may have more inputs than the monitor version or they may be identical with only the warranty to differentiate them.

Note that what's being legislated out of existence are TVs with analog only tuners. As Hfly said, monitors with NO tuner will still be very legal (many plasmas fall into this category and the consumer models mostly have external media boxes anyway!)

There's another issue affecting price: royalties on copy protection technology. Digital TVs have an HDMI interface while PC monitors have a DVI interface. Part of the HDMI interface is HDCP copy protection. Digital cable set top boxes can connect to TVs with HDMI (or with analog RGB) interfaces. If you hook up a set top box to the DVI connector on a PC monitor, the cable will connect but the set top box will sense that the monitor does not support HDCP and will not send any video. If you hook up a set top box to a DTV receiver, it will sense that the TV does support HDCP. But there are royalties associated with HDCP. So there are two differences between a flat panel PC monitor and a flat panel DTV receiver: the tuner, and copy protection.

There's another issue affecting price: royalties on copy protection technology. Digital TVs have an HDMI interface while PC monitors have a DVI interface. Part of the HDMI interface is HDCP copy protection. Digital cable set top boxes can connect to TVs with HDMI (or with analog RGB) interfaces. If you hook up a set top box to the DVI connector on a PC monitor, the cable will connect but the set top box will sense that the monitor does not support HDCP and will not send any video. If you hook up a set top box to a DTV receiver, it will sense that the TV does support HDCP. But there are royalties associated with HDCP. So there are two differences between a flat panel PC monitor and a flat panel DTV receiver: the tuner, and copy protection.

That's a very important point about copy protection. Not many smaller monitors include HDCP at this point although most Plasmas do and the LCD I linked to earlier does as well. Fortunately, conversion from DVI to HDMI and v/v is a simple matter and only requires an inexpensive adapter or cable. Still, without reading the fine print that sexy new TV may be an expensive paperweight if you can't get any content to play on it.

I understand that come July, all HDTVs sold in the U.S. are required to be equipped with tuners. Would it be better to wait until the second half of the year to pick up a HDTV in that case?

The deadline is March 2007, and it only applies to TV's - i.e. those devices with built in tuners.

If it doesn't have a tuner (HD monitor, HD-ready, whatever you call it), nothing is required.

Most HD devices don't have tuners because very few people capture signals OTA, especially those spending $$$$ on HD. Cable, DirectTV, etc., are what most folks use.