Cathay Pacific Asia Miles - Help with problem/compensation

I had a big problem on my CX flight in paid J from CDG-HKG this week. I am curious on how to approach the situation. CX seems to do things "differently". I read this board about how not to ask for Upgrades etc. I want to handle this the smart way. Basically here is the situation:
I paid for TWO business class seats from CDG-HKG. One for me and one for my mother. I got lucky (Flight was full) and got upgraded to First at the gate. After that I encountered three problems of varying difficulty.

1) My first class seat was broken. It would not recline at all. It was stuck in that slightly leaning fowarward position for takeoff. It was terrible on an 11 hour flight. Obviously this is the bulk of my compensation issue. The reason I bought the J seat was comfort. I ended up with less comfort than a coach seat. I would normally ask for the difference in the fare on that leg between J and discounted coach as compensation. Alternatively and upgrade to J from Discounted coach would be acceptable too. What do you think?
2) Due to the ridiculous French being on strike (Industrial action they called it). They had zero asian meals and only three choices of meals. Murphy's law dictates they were the three things I'd never eat. I realize this isn't directly CX's fault. However, I certainly did not get the "CX experience" of food I paid for. I'd roll this in my solution from above. Basically a partial refund or a do vover. But, I do mention it so you get a feel for the problems.
3) I was wanting to buy a necktie from duty free. They had "weight issues" and didn't load the carts... I realize it's no biggie. Again, just seemed like I was cursed!

How would you contact CX and what is reasonable? Thanks, Cigar

Don't even mention 2) or 3) - there's nothing much CX could have done about 2), and duty free isn't a committed part of the service so I don't see that you can expect anything if they choose not to offer it on a flight. I assume that they offered to find you something you could eat from the J or Y cabins?

On 1) you clearly have a case. I would just write a very polite letter (to the customer relations address on the CX website) explaining what happened, making the point you have made (you pay for J to get a comfortable seat and you ended up with a less comfortable one). If it were me my hope would be that I would get a confirmed availability long haul one-class upgrade voucher, or something like that (perhaps the equivalent miles).

Of course your mother (I assume) did get the full F service for the price of J so on average you still did OK!

And don't hold your breath waiting for the reply - it may take CX a while, but they will get round to it...

Don't even mention 2) or 3) - there's nothing much CX could have done about 2), and duty free isn't a committed part of the service so I don't see that you can expect anything if they choose not to offer it on a flight. I assume that they offered to find you something you could eat from the J or Y cabins?

On 1) you clearly have a case. I would just write a very polite letter (to the customer relations address on the CX website) explaining what happened, making the point you have made (you pay for J to get a comfortable seat and you ended up with a less comfortable one). If it were me my hope would be that I would get a confirmed availability long haul one-class upgrade voucher, or something like that (perhaps the equivalent miles).

Of course your mother (I assume) did get the full F service for the price of J so on average you still did OK!

And don't hold your breath waiting for the reply - it may take CX a while, but they will get round to it...

Yes, the price difference was about $4,000 US dollars between coach and J. It really was a big problem. I didn't pay that for a seat with less recline than coach!

Would the seat really not move at all? Normally when that happens they can recline it manually.

I had exactly the same problem a year ago from HKG-LAX. I was sitting in 4A. What was your seat? After takeoff, I was horrified to find the seat wouldn't recline at all. In fact, it was in that slightly forward position you mentioned!

They gave me $250 in duty free coupons on the flight which I felt was an insult.

I wrote to Customer Service in HKG. They said the $250 was all I was getting.

I then wrote to the CEO, returning their lousy $250 coupons and said I felt really mistreated.

Customer service apologized and gave me 70,000 miles, which is good for a round trip upgrade from J to F. I thought this was fair.

I am a Diamond member. I don't know if this helped but being a Diamond member really doesn't count for much from my experience.

They should really do something for you. Since you are not a CX member, they can't give you miles but they can give you some free future upgrade certificates.
Let us know how your situation turns out.

Would the seat really not move at all? Normally when that happens they can recline it manually.

They had four FA's with flashlights and gloves on digging in the seat. The problem appeared to be the motor worked but something was "jamming" the track/belt that allows the seat to recline. I think something is sheared off and stuck in the track. The seat would not move at all. I would have been okay with a manually recline or ANY recline. But it was stuck firm. I suspect something sheared off the last time it went upright.

I had exactly the same problem a year ago from HKG-LAX. I was sitting in 4A. What was your seat? After takeoff, I was horrified to find the seat wouldn't recline at all. In fact, it was in that slightly forward position you mentioned!

They gave me $250 in duty free coupons on the flight which I felt was an insult.

I wrote to Customer Service in HKG. They said the $250 was all I was getting.

I then wrote to the CEO, returning their lousy $250 coupons and said I felt really mistreated.

Customer service apologized and gave me 70,000 miles, which is good for a round trip upgrade from J to F. I thought this was fair.

I am a Diamond member. I don't know if this helped but being a Diamond member really doesn't count for much from my experience.

They should really do something for you. Since you are not a CX member, they can't give you miles but they can give you some free future upgrade certificates.
Let us know how your situation turns out.

Uh OH! I only got $50 in duty free coupons! :eek:
3 k was my seat.
I hope they do the "right" thing. If they don't I'll dispute the AMEX charge as not reciving what I paid for. Clearly without a recline and food choices, they wouldn't have much leg to stand on.

...
I hope they do the "right" thing. If they don't I'll dispute the AMEX charge as not reciving what I paid for. Clearly without a recline and food choices, they wouldn't have much leg to stand on.

You'll dispute the AMex charge because it's not what you paid for?????

Your charge is the right of passage from point of origin to destination. Which is what CX gave you. There was a seat. At least you didn't have to stand - because that would be a breach of contract. You got to sit down... even if slightly uncomfortable, from start to end.

If you were really that uncomfortable, you could have very well exchanged seats with someone in J who would have been more than happy to sit upright and enjoy all the perks and services just being in F class.

I wouldn't believe that CX would have let you go entirely hungry. They must have fed you something...

I agree with christep, that services relating to meals and inflight duty is beyond their control. Blame ground catering.

And you got upgraded from J which is what you paid for.. for better personal space in F even though there were some service issues...

You may try writing...to CS.. but trust me, they would know that you got the upgrade! So write fairly..

You'll dispute the AMex charge because it's not what you paid for?????

Your charge is the right of passage from point of origin to destination. Which is what CX gave you. There was a seat. At least you didn't have to stand - because that would be a breach of contract. You got to sit down... even if slightly uncomfortable, from start to end.

If you were really that uncomfortable, you could have very well exchanged seats with someone in J who would have been more than happy to sit upright and enjoy all the perks and services just being in F class.

I wouldn't believe that CX would have let you go entirely hungry. They must have fed you something...

I agree with christep, that services relating to meals and inflight duty is beyond their control. Blame ground catering.

And you got upgraded from J which is what you paid for.. for better personal space in F even though there were some service issues...

You may try writing...to CS.. but trust me, they would know that you got the upgrade! So write fairly..

Boy, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed didn't they? :(
First I did not say they didn't offer me any food. I also said it was a minor issue. Go read what I wrote.
Second heck yes I would dispute the charge. As far as your less than charitable response:
"Your charge is the right of passage from point of origin to destination. Which is what CX gave you. There was a seat. At least you didn't have to stand - because that would be a breach of contract. You got to sit down... even if slightly uncomfortable, from start to end."
That is completly off the mark. A coach seat comes with the pure transportation excuse. When you pay an extra $4000 US ($32,000 HKG) you sure expect a working seat that reclines. Clearly they are selling SOMETHING for the extra money. My point is it is either the seat, the food or something. I didn't get that "something" whatever you want to define it as.
And the seat was very uncomfortable. It was beyond vertical in a foward direction. Very uncomfortable for a person as tall as I. And it was impossible to sleep.
And I never contemplated trying to go to business and trade a broken seat for a working seat in business. It can't imagine anyone would make that trade, as they were all happily sleeping while reclined.
As for them willing to trade for the "perks and services" of First class, that directly contradicts that "Your charge is the right of passage from point of origin to destination". Which is it? Do I pay for perks? If so I didn't get them thus a compensation is due. If not, what would the people in business be trading for? :rolleyes:
Lastly, You imply I would lie or mislead CX in any letter. That is offensive. You clearly see in my post I freely admitted to the upgrade. I never said, "I had first class etc". You said,"You may try writing...to CS.. but trust me, they would know that you got the upgrade! So write fairly.." To imply I wouldn't is offensive. I don't remind you to "tell the truth". It is understood that people SHOULD be honest. Thank you for treating me like I was somebody trying to rip off CX... :mad:

I apologise if I may have sounded a bit off...

And yes, I did just wake up, thanks ! I'm in asia right now. :o

What I meant was that it is improper for you to dispute the charges to amex. You have already used your ticket.. and that is something to be said. If you dispute it.. well, you might be starting something you do not want to.

Basically - please do just write in, call CX and see what you're entitled to. Yes you were to be seated in J but was upgraded to F and you feel that you did not get treated the way you were expecting to.

But really, is it just because that asian carriers try to kow tow to their western clients that you feel justification that you could have received more after having received your upgrade?.. ok on a non working seat..

But did you even attempt to ask if you could change seat inflight .. did you tell the ISM that? Did you even communicate that you were not happy...

If they gave you only $50 voucher, that says to the CS department that it is a minor issue as far as the ISM is concerned...

But anyway... no matter how we feel is already justifiable or not, you will still write into CX Customer Relations. So just let us know what they say to you in return..

I hope they do the "right" thing. If they don't I'll dispute the AMEX charge as not reciving what I paid for. Clearly without a recline and food choices, they wouldn't have much leg to stand on.

Frankly I am not really sure about the recline as a basis for disputing your Amex charge, but for sure lack of food choices is not a valid argument IMO.

the point is -- had the OP known that the F seat was broken, he would not have taken the upgrade. clearly the OP feels the marginal addition of personal space and service is by no means worth the trade of a working J seat.

a cost benefit analysis with which i completely agree.

when CX requests a pax to accept a change in the specs of their product (a change in the guise of a so-called upgrade) one would hope CX takes the care to ensure the change is at least of comparable value.

by not doing so, this is no different from the many bait and switch stories you hear online and off.

and while i am not a credit card T&C expert, i think when there has been a bait and switch, the credit card charges ought to be disputable.

big big thumbsdown to CX. had i been in OP's position on the flight, i would have been fuming, and if i had discovered the problem with the seat early enough, i would have exited the AC and demanded a working J seat before reboarding. let CX find another sucker to take the broken seat.

the point is -- had the OP known that the F seat was broken, he would not have taken the upgrade. clearly the OP feels the marginal addition of personal space and service is by no means worth the trade of a working J seat.

a cost benefit analysis with which i completely agree.

when CX requests a pax to accept a change in the specs of their product (a change in the guise of a so-called upgrade) one would hope CX takes the care to ensure the change is at least of comparable value.

by not doing so, this is no different from the many bait and switch stories you hear online and off.

Exactly. I would not have taken an upgrade to a broken seat. And extra pitch was meaningless since I couldn't sleep sitting straight up.

Frankly I am not really sure about the recline as a basis for disputing your Amex charge, but for sure lack of food choices is not a valid argument IMO.

If you read my original post I clearly stated that the food wasn't a big compensation issue. I simply mentioned it because beyong the basic transportation there are only a few reasons why you pay extra for Business.
1) Size of seat (pitch and width)
2) Better food
3) Better service.

My point was I didn't get two out of three. And the service to me is the least important. The only reason I spent the big money for business was the seat width.
Second, I did not say disputing the charge was my first course of action. I simply answered a question from another poster about what I might do if CX was not responsive.

I apologise if I may have sounded a bit off...

And yes, I did just wake up, thanks ! I'm in asia right now. :o

What I meant was that it is improper for you to dispute the charges to amex. You have already used your ticket.. and that is something to be said. If you dispute it.. well, you might be starting something you do not want to.

Basically - please do just write in, call CX and see what you're entitled to. Yes you were to be seated in J but was upgraded to F and you feel that you did not get treated the way you were expecting to.

But really, is it just because that asian carriers try to kow tow to their western clients that you feel justification that you could have received more after having received your upgrade?.. ok on a non working seat..

But did you even attempt to ask if you could change seat inflight .. did you tell the ISM that? Did you even communicate that you were not happy...

If they gave you only $50 voucher, that says to the CS department that it is a minor issue as far as the ISM is concerned...

But anyway... no matter how we feel is already justifiable or not, you will still write into CX Customer Relations. So just let us know what they say to you in return..

First to your question about changing seats. As I posted earlier EVERY seat was full. As I also mentioned the flight was weight restricted. There was no seat to switch to. None, ZERO, Zippo, NADA,NON, NILL
Second it seems almost racist in your post. You said, "But really, is it just because that asian carriers try to kow tow to their western clients that you feel justification that you could have received more after having received your upgrade?.. ok on a non working seat.."
I couldn't care less if the carrier is ASIAN, AFRICAN, NORTH AMERICAN or purple... If I pay big money for a seat. I want the seat to work. I don't see how the fact I am western has any bearing on the seat not working. They sold me a product that didn't work. How is that "Kow Tow"ing? It almost seems like you have some iissues or frustrations with non asians. Granted, I am sure you get your share a ridiculous posts from people asking for the moon for superficial problems. We get that all the time in my home forum of Continental. Nine out of ten times we tell them to forget it. However, some times they have a legitimate issue. And when you are 6 foot 5 inches tall and weigh 325 pounds. Trust me, seat size is beyond important.
You seem to feel just because I got an upgrade to more pitch, that there is no issue. If that is the case, why do airlines market "lay flat seats" verses seats that simply recline. Clearly the market and economics agree with me. Recline is a BIG deal.
Lastly I didn't ASK if you felt I was justified. I asked for the best way to approach CX. I respect different cultures and people. I do not want to be a "bull in the China shop" and offend them, and get nothing. I read your very helpful posts and guides on upgrades. I normally would have been begging for the FC upgrade. But after reading your advice, I did not. And it worked out. I was respecting the culture by coming here and asking how to approach the situation, instead of immediatly adopting a western approach. To refresh you memory here is my original first sentance:
"I had a big problem on my CX flight in paid J from CDG-HKG this week. I am curious on how to approach the situation. CX seems to do things "differently". I read this board about how not to ask for Upgrades etc. I want to handle this the smart way."

Sidetracking somewhat, but does anyone have any idea what the rated maximum load is on CX's F seats? There must be some weight above which the motors simply won't move the seat...

(I realise that wasn't the problem here.)

If you read my original post I clearly stated that the food wasn't a big compensation issue. I simply mentioned it because beyong the basic transportation there are only a few reasons why you pay extra for Business.
1) Size of seat (pitch and width)
2) Better food
3) Better service.

My point was I didn't get two out of three. And the service to me is the least important. The only reason I spent the big money for business was the seat width.
Second, I did not say disputing the charge was my first course of action. I simply answered a question from another poster about what I might do if CX was not responsive.

... and I was just responding to your very own post about the recline and food choice - in case CX does not do 'the right thing'.

As I said I am not too sure about the first item (recline) as I don't know the T&C that well, but for the second item (food choice) I am sure it is not a valid argument to dispute the charge.

FWIW, I too would be furious if I have to bear a long haul in the fully upright position - even in F.

... and I was just responding to your very own post about the recline and food choice - in case CX does not do 'the right thing'.

As I said I am not too sure about the first item (recline) as I don't know the T&C that well, but for the second item (food choice) I am sure it is not a valid argument to dispute the charge.

FWIW, I too would be furious if I have to bear a long haul in the fully upright position - even in F.

Thanks. :)

I am absolutely appalled by the responses of some of the posters here...........of course cigarman should be compensated for a non-working seat, he paid for it! CX did wrong to a full fare paying passenger and should make amends. It does not matter one bit that he was "upgraded" to "first", as this was done for the airlines benefit.........

Cigarman, absolutely do not rest until you are completely satisfied with your compensation!

I agree with christep here: a fair compensation would be a one way upgrade Y to J or the equivalent miles for that.

I am absolutely appalled by the responses of some of the posters here...........of course cigarman should be compensated for a non-working seat, he paid for it! CX did wrong to a full fare paying passenger and should make amends. It does not matter one bit that he was "upgraded" to "first", as this was done for the airlines benefit.........

Cigarman, absolutely do not rest until you are completely satisfied with your compensation!

I totally agree with Q Shoe Guy.
The most important factor for me to buy a J or F ticket is to have a bed to sleep on. Others are less important. I will be extremely mad if that happen to me.

Ok.. this will be a hot topic I see...

I really don't know what CX will say.. so like I said, let OP write in and see.

If it happened to me and I was op-up'd, I wouldn't dare make too much of a big deal.. because I would be embarrassed in the first place as the ISM would know that I was op'up'd from J. If the flight is really full, and I needed the sleep , I would try asking the ISM if they could switch seats with me - whether in J or even Y... well, ok, not Y as it would be better to sit upright in a F class seat than a Y class seat.

I wouldn't dare dispute the cc charge because it is not a valid complaint. I would however, tell CX that I didn't get my J class seat because I paid for a flat seat and I didn't get one.

But let's just say theoretically, that on the day of your flight, that aircraft snagged, and CX decided to put you on another aircraft with no flat seats. What then? CX fulfilled their obligation and contract in taking you from A to B.. though of course having a flat seat is one of the perks of flying CX, but flat seat or not, the fare is exactly the same.

We don't know exactly what CX will say or do... everything here is speculation. Now where are the "CX employees" when I need them here ?

Just write in and see... we may all be very surprised.

But let's just say theoretically, that on the day of your flight, that aircraft snagged, and CX decided to put you on another aircraft with no flat seats. What then? CX fulfilled their obligation and contract in taking you from A to B.. though of course having a flat seat is one of the perks of flying CX, but flat seat or not, the fare is exactly the same.



But in this case, all the seats on that plane were working perfectly well except one. (aren't they?!?)

cigarman, I've found CX customer relations to be very defensive when it comes to complaints, and more often than not I don't even receive a reply, despite being MPC Diamond, so I don't know how they will react to this. I did have a somewhat similar situation recently on BA, when my F seat would not recline at all (it was paid F, however). BA sent me a voucher for a free return F ticket to any BA destination, which I thought was generous of them. I hope CX compensates you in a manner that leaves you satisfied. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

In this case, I'd say you probably will end up having to dispute the charge.

1. The upgrade means nothing. They chose to do an op-up.
2. Compensation in the form of a 1-way upgrade is also useless, as it would require the OP to buy another very expensive ticket to use it.

In this case, a lot of money was spent to ensure comfort, and that comfort clearly wasn't provided. The only acceptable response would be a large refund. I'd even go so far as to suggest a full one-way refund, if only to ensure customer goodwill. I'd send a letter, and wait 2 weeks for a reply. With that much money at stake, they'd better answer you quickly. If you haven't heard anything in that time, call AMEX. That'll get you a response from CP.

I would try not to expect too much, as comfort (as important as it is) is one component of the whole CX experience.
But that's just me.

A few years back, I was upgraded to F at CDG and it was in the midst of a rather long spell of strike by catering services at the airport. CX carried foods from HKG for CDG-HKG. They did not have a full range of food typically available and they offered some meal vouchers as compensation to all F pax at least. I don't remember the value, though. I didn't take them as I had access to the Wing/Pier's F section.

The point is that the flight was overbooked and that this passenger really did CX a favour by opting for the first class seat.

That's because, under EU passenger rights, CX would have had to pay a hefty amount of DBC (amounting to several hundred US dollars) to any passenger it bumped from that flight.

Also .... shouldn't the crew on the flight ex-CDG have known that F class seat was faulty. I thought that the in-bound crew (ie HKG-CDG) would have filed a report which would have listed any problems with the seating ?

The point is that the flight was overbooked and that this passenger really did CX a favour by opting for the first class seat.

That's because, under EU passenger rights, CX would have had to pay a hefty amount of DBC (amounting to several hundred US dollars) to any passenger it bumped from that flight.

Also .... shouldn't the crew on the flight ex-CDG have known that F class seat was faulty. I thought that the in-bound crew (ie HKG-CDG) would have filed a report which would have listed any problems with the seating ?

Bingo! Ding ,ding..........this is the correct answer!

Ok.. this will be a hot topic I see...

I really don't know what CX will say.. so like I said, let OP write in and see.

If it happened to me and I was op-up'd, I wouldn't dare make too much of a big deal.. because I would be embarrassed in the first place as the ISM would know that I was op'up'd from J. If the flight is really full, and I needed the sleep , I would try asking the ISM if they could switch seats with me - whether in J or even Y... well, ok, not Y as it would be better to sit upright in a F class seat than a Y class seat.

I wouldn't dare dispute the cc charge because it is not a valid complaint. I would however, tell CX that I didn't get my J class seat because I paid for a flat seat and I didn't get one.

But let's just say theoretically, that on the day of your flight, that aircraft snagged, and CX decided to put you on another aircraft with no flat seats. What then? CX fulfilled their obligation and contract in taking you from A to B.. though of course having a flat seat is one of the perks of flying CX, but flat seat or not, the fare is exactly the same.

We don't know exactly what CX will say or do... everything here is speculation. Now where are the "CX employees" when I need them here ?

Just write in and see... we may all be very surprised.

Let me answer that question with a real type example. If CX oversold and could not fly me and offerred to put me on BA in J class I would REFUSE. Your premise assumes I have to fly whatever CX wants me to. BA J class narrows in the middle of the seat, which is beyond stupid, since people are FAT in the middle. Yet it is wide at the top and bottom... go figure. Also BA has a wall at the end of the J seat 6 feet down. I am 6'5'. So basically I would refuse to fly BA. Now, if they sweetened the offer... who knows. If they said, we know Quantas is not as good, but fly them in J and we'd give you a voucher for $1000 US. I might do it. They point is It is MY choice, NOT CX I am the paying customer. They can't just choose to substitute.
If you bought a Mercedes E class (mid level) car and when you went to pick it up they said, "Gee we sold too many" here is a Jaguar X type, is that okay? Both are mid range luxury cars, both are transportation. Both might cost the same. But, clearly it isn't...
When you buy a J seat, you are buying more than just "basic" transport. So absolutly you have a right to get what you agreed (contracted) to pay for.
I am stunned that you'd be embarrassed to complain to the ISM because she knew you had be upgraded. Why? You paid ALOT of money to fly in J. The person who SHOULD be embarrassed is the ISM for having a broken seat, Less than normal food selections, no duty free etc. HER employer sold something they couldn't deliver.

Cigar Im gonna print and frame this thread and every time you tell someone to get a life over on the CO thread for the same problems Ill have this thread to revert to.

Seems over at CO you have more or less told others nothing was due, and here you didnt buy the F seat but a J and want compensation as if you purchased an F. Is $4000 the differnce on a 1 way or a round trip? After all all taht they might owe you is the difference on the portion of the tkt to HKG from CDG unless what you purchased was a 1 way CDG-HKG to begin with. What is that $4000 the difference between, they owe you nothin per an F seat since you didnt purchase one. Is the difference between a Full Y and J $4000.

Its not nice not getting what one has paid for No Matter if the Carrier is CX or CO!

If I was op-up'd, I wouldn't dare make too much of a big deal.. because I would be embarrassed in the first place as the ISM would know that I was op'up'd from J.

what on earth ?? what has an opup pax got to be embarassed about ?

then again, i strip to my underwear (under the duvet) when i fly at the front of the plane :D

Cigar Im gonna print and frame this thread and every time you tell someone to get a life over on the CO thread for the same problems Ill have this thread to revert to.

Seems over at CO you have more or less told others nothing was due, and here you didnt buy the F seat but a J and want compensation as if you purchased an F. Is $4000 the differnce on a 1 way or a round trip? After all all taht they might owe you is the difference on the portion of the tkt to HKG from CDG unless what you purchased was a 1 way CDG-HKG to begin with. What is that $4000 the difference between, they owe you nothin per an F seat since you didnt purchase one. Is the difference between a Full Y and J $4000.

Its not nice not getting what one has paid for No Matter if the Carrier is CX or CO!

Clearly you did not read my original post at all. Please go back and re read it. I didn't say Anything about wanting four grand. Nor did I ask for compensation based on and F seat. That is all Guy Betsy worried that I had been upgraded. I belive they either owe me:
1) An upgrade from coach (one way) to J next time I fly them. That makes me "whole" Or
2) If I get coach recline (actually less) I want to pay the coach fare on ONE leg. Thus the difference between coach (discounted, I bought way in advance) and the J fare I paid.
This is the same advice I would give in the CO forum. I simply am trying to get what I paid for. I am flexible to the solution, whichever suits the airline better. I agree it would be completly unrealistic to ask for the difference in the round trip price. I agree it is unrealistic to use FC as the comparison since I bought Business. But, as I said. I didn't make those points. That was others. I suspect you skimmed the posts and got the wrong impression. :)

Also .... shouldn't the crew on the flight ex-CDG have known that F class seat was faulty. I thought that the in-bound crew (ie HKG-CDG) would have filed a report which would have listed any problems with the seating ?

Maybe yes, unless no one was sitting there on HKG-CDG.

The moral of the story is to try the seat out while on the ground.

but it did happen once....on a HKG/YVR first class...the pax played on ground and the seat worked perfectly, once in the air.........it's unserviceable :o ....so things do happen!

but it did happen once....on a HKG/YVR first class...the pax played on ground and the seat worked perfectly, once in the air.........it's unserviceable :o ....so things do happen!

That's exactly what happened. I always test them on the ground. My 140lb mother was sitting in the seat. I made her recline it and it worked. Put it back in the takeoff position... never moved again! So I gave her my seat and I sat in hers.

That's exactly what happened. I always test them on the ground. My 140lb mother was sitting in the seat. I made her recline it and it worked. Put it back in the takeoff position... never moved again! So I gave her my seat and I sat in hers.
So are you saying that the seat started working again after she was sitting in it?

So are you saying that the seat started working again after she was sitting in it?

NO, I said it worked one time on the ground prior to takeoff when MOM was sitting in it. Plane takes off... seat never works again. I switch with Mom and give her the working seat.

update

I flew the second and third legs of the paid J trip. Leg two was uneventful. But leg three...

I used up my battery to a large degree on the NRT express (1 1/2hours) before boarding CX from NRT-HKG. Got this inferior J class that I belive is called "Reigonal Business class". The plane was a 777-300. I went to plug in my empower cord and had no juice. The FA told me "The plane was only three weeks old and hadn't been in to refit it for the power yet".
I was dumbstruck.
1) How come they didn't hook up the power when they installed the seats on a BRAND NEW PLANE???
2) How come they don't care about the needs of their business customers. This caused me a HUGE problem as I needed to work on the plane. This is why I bought business class. Not every seat in coach has power. And the web site of CX touts:
"PC power and data
Within easy reach to power your laptop, this is one feature we never take for granted - keeping you connected wherever you are! "
How can they say, they "don't take it for granted?" It was a friggin brand new plane. There is no excuse for not having operating power ports.
3) Then to add insult to injury my next flight (different ticket) connection had NO power ports at all in the old seats in J. Again how is this "not taking it for granted".

I am becoming very sick of all these seeming "fake" apologies. How about stop apologizing and get the product right???
Now I feel CX owes me even more compensation. I would have never have flown a bozo outfit if I was going to do 7 hours flying (NRT-HKG-SIN) without power! Thoughts on the power thing?

Cigarman, you've got my sympathies. Despite what CX apologists would like you to believe is fair compensation for your discomfort (I bet they'd be huffing and puffing [pardon the pun] too if it were them in your shoes), you deserve more than what you're being offered so far. So fight on and let us know how this turns out.

CX has never been a carrier of my choice as far as power ports and onboard Internet connectivity are concerned. Don't fly it when you need them. CX is not reliable.

SQ is a much better choice when it is flying a competing route like SFO -- SQ even offers CBB on this route (and HKG-SIN on SQ1/2).

Cigarman, you've got my sympathies. Despite what CX apologists would like you to believe is fair compensation for your discomfort (I bet they'd be huffing and puffing [pardon the pun] too if it were them in your shoes), you deserve more than what you're being offered so far. So fight on and let us know how this turns out.

Actually I haven't asked for anything yet. I want to finish all the legs first in case something else is an issue. I take the last leg tonight.

But let's just say theoretically, that on the day of your flight, that aircraft snagged, and CX decided to put you on another aircraft with no flat seats. What then? CX fulfilled their obligation and contract in taking you from A to B.. though of course having a flat seat is one of the perks of flying CX, but flat seat or not, the fare is exactly the same.

Rubbish.

Let's say that I decide to order a new notebook from Dell; I spend a lot of money and am expecting the most up-to-date model. Dell issues me a receipt for that computer. When the box arrives at my door and I open it, however, it turns out that they shipped me a similar model, but when I try to flip it open, it gets stuck halfway and won't move. I can see the screen, but I'm not happy.

Now, as a consumer, I should first contact Dell and give them a chance to make things right. Until I do so, my credit card issuer doesn't want to hear from me. If, however, Dell doesn't act, I would have no problem disputing the charge.

I fail to see how cigarman's case differs from this.

Rubbish.

Let's say that I decide to order a new notebook from Dell; I spend a lot of money and am expecting the most up-to-date model. Dell issues me a receipt for that computer. When the box arrives at my door and I open it, however, it turns out that they shipped me a similar model, but when I try to flip it open, it gets stuck halfway and won't move. I can see the screen, but I'm not happy.

Now, as a consumer, I should first contact Dell and give them a chance to make things right. Until I do so, my credit card issuer doesn't want to hear from me. If, however, Dell doesn't act, I would have no problem disputing the charge.

I fail to see how cigarman's case differs from this.


By the way, these comments were made by Guy Betsy, not by me................... : :(

By the way, these comments were made by Guy Betsy, not by me................... : :(


With my apologies, the post has been updated. Sorry.

Actually I haven't asked for anything yet. I want to finish all the legs first in case something else is an issue. I take the last leg tonight.

As I said before, even though CX tends to do things right in the in-flight services, its customer service/consumer relations is pathetic (both USA and HK). The department only seems to give out "standard" apologies that sound "ungenuinely apologetic." Believe it or not, I've dealt with my complaint for over a three month period and the complaint got nowhere except for some duty free vouchers. The responses to the complaints were not even in direct response to the points in my complaints! :mad: I even escalated the issue to the CEO, that was when it was given a more prompt reply/attention. Even the CC letter to AA consumer relations got a quicker reply from AA than CX.... :rolleyes:

CX is a good airline if things go well, but when things go wrong.....you're pretty much out of luck pursuing anything with customer relations.....American carriers seems to have CS/CR departments that are more competent in dealing with complaints....

Let me guess, the lady you are dealing with is a Joanne?

Sorry you have to go through this.....premium travelers shouldn't have to spend this kind of effort to get compensation for what SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROVIDED in the first place.

The plane was a 777-300. I went to plug in my empower cord and had no juice. The FA told me "The plane was only three weeks old and hadn't been in to refit it for the power yet". I was dumbstruck.


I have flown on the 777-300 in "Regional" Business Class a few times over the past couple of years and the in-seat power was never available. Although the seats had the jacks installed, the power units weren't installed. That is what I was told when I asked on one occasion. On another flight, I was informed that the power was in-operative. Bottom line, no in-seat power.

My most recent experience was about 8 months ago. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it doesn't seem like CX installed the in-seat power units on the 777-300 in "Regional" Business Class -- although they did install the jacks.

Just an update. On the fourth and final leg. CX and BA failed to transfer my Mothers bag in Paris even though I had a four hour connection! Took them until 9:45pm to get us a bag that arrived in Paris at 5:30am!
I'm curious who's fault is that?
1) CX
2) BA
3) The FRENCH?

At least they got your bags on the same day.. Late bags could be delievered 1-2 days after arrival flight.

4 hour connection where? Who was your originating carrier? Who is your delivery carrier?

Basically the delivery carrier is responsible for getting the bag to you, irrespective of who first flew you. So if you first flew CX and connecting to BA to CDG, BA is responsible for getting the bag to you. All complaints are to be directed to them.

By the time they found your bag.. it has to be loaded to Paris and then when it gets there, there will be extra security checks on your bag. Then they will gather the rest of the lost luggage found that day, and then they will deliver it to you. It doesn't mean that once your bag gets to Paris that they will send it out to you specially.

At least they found your bag. I had a connection at LAX from SAN on AA to AA to LHR with a four connection as well.. and AA lost the bag.. and they said that they have 'no idea' where it is. And yes it took them over 10 hours to deliver it. AA didn't give any compensation. Did BA?

4 hour connection where? Who was your originating carrier? Who is your delivery carrier?

Basically the delivery carrier is responsible for getting the bag to you, irrespective of who first flew you. So if you first flew CX and connecting to BA to CDG, BA is responsible for getting the bag to you. All complaints are to be directed to them.

By the time they found your bag.. it has to be loaded to Paris and then when it gets there, there will be extra security checks on your bag. Then they will gather the rest of the lost luggage found that day, and then they will deliver it to you. It doesn't mean that once your bag gets to Paris that they will send it out to you specially.

At least they found your bag. I had a connection at LAX from SAN on AA to AA to LHR with a four connection as well.. and AA lost the bag.. and they said that they have 'no idea' where it is. And yes it took them over 10 hours to deliver it. AA didn't give any compensation. Did BA?

Let me clarify.

MY BAG ARRIVED ON THE SAME CX INTO PARIS I DID.
I Left four hours later for London on BA
Somehow CX and BA couldn't get a bag moved from terminal 2a to 2b in 4 HOURS! That is the problem!

4 hour connection where? Who was your originating carrier? Who is your delivery carrier?

Basically the delivery carrier is responsible for getting the bag to you, irrespective of who first flew you. So if you first flew CX and connecting to BA to CDG, BA is responsible for getting the bag to you. All complaints are to be directed to them.

By the time they found your bag.. it has to be loaded to Paris and then when it gets there, there will be extra security checks on your bag. Then they will gather the rest of the lost luggage found that day, and then they will deliver it to you. It doesn't mean that once your bag gets to Paris that they will send it out to you specially.

At least they found your bag. I had a connection at LAX from SAN on AA to AA to LHR with a four connection as well.. and AA lost the bag.. and they said that they have 'no idea' where it is. And yes it took them over 10 hours to deliver it. AA didn't give any compensation. Did BA?

Ive had BA mess up my bags also. Overnighted at LHR as no onward connection to NY by the time we landed. If you are down for less than 24 hrs BA no need to claim and drag your bags to your Hotel, as BA will hold them. Well thats exactly what they did.

I was in 1st on that Flight along with FM Jack straw and his Security detail. anyway I was met by the BA JFK Mgr when I left the a/c who promised that it would be sent to me via a Special Express Delievery Service. What that meant was their reg Service was to pick up my bag and All the others and then put mine into a Van and sent straight to me. It didnt happen as the Service put it onto their Reg Van.

Although it was the Flight that left LHR after mine did, I didnt get the Bag till the next day. Part was clearing Customs and that teh Delivery Service messed up.

But there is supposingly a different handling system for 1st Class People, maybe Biz also.

Let me clarify.

MY BAG ARRIVED ON THE SAME CX INTO PARIS I DID.
I Left four hours later for London on BA
Somehow CX and BA couldn't get a bag moved from terminal 2a to 2b in 4 HOURS! That is the problem!

The problem is AA.. Read my post above!

Guess who are the ground handling agents at CDG for CX? Yep.. AA.

I had the same problem as you but I was flying on AA from JFK to CDG and then connecting to LHR on BA about 3 years ago. Bags were lost and BA couldn't find it because AA didn't load the baggage information on SITA. They had entrusted the lost baggage scenario with their own SABRE.. except that no one had SABRE. I was connecting on a flight from LHR to CPT that same evening.. and it was BA who found the bag in NY (!) and had it delivered to LHR just in time for the flight. AA meanwhile still insisted that they were looking for the bag! I had to inform AA 3 days later (after they admitted that they couldn't find it ) that it was BA who found it for me.

The bag was probably properly delivered to CDG Terminal 2A on CX.. but ground handling agent (AA) could not get it to BA at Terminal 2B - directly opposite!

Welcome to CDG!

The problem is AA.. Read my post above!

Guess who are the ground handling agents at CDG for CX? Yep.. AA.

I had the same problem as you but I was flying on AA from JFK to CDG and then connecting to LHR on BA about 3 years ago. Bags were lost and BA couldn't find it because AA didn't load the baggage information on SITA. They had entrusted the lost baggage scenario with their own SABRE.. except that no one had SABRE. I was connecting on a flight from LHR to CPT that same evening.. and it was BA who found the bag in NY (!) and had it delivered to LHR just in time for the flight. AA meanwhile still insisted that they were looking for the bag! I had to inform AA 3 days later (after they admitted that they couldn't find it ) that it was BA who found it for me.

The bag was probably properly delivered to CDG Terminal 2A on CX.. but ground handling agent (AA) could not get it to BA at Terminal 2B - directly opposite!

Welcome to CDG!

Be that as it may, from cigarman's perspective, his remedy, to the extent there is one, lies with CX or BA, not AA. AA was acting as CX's agent and CX is responsible for the actions (or inactions, in this case) of its agent.

Be that as it may, from cigarman's perspective, his remedy, to the extent there is one, lies with CX or BA, not AA. AA was acting as CX's agent and CX is responsible for the actions (or inactions, in this case) of its agent.

I didn't say it was specifically's AA's problem, but rather it was BA's as they were the last carrier to have flown cigarman in. But I was highlighting the fact that transfers between CX and BA when bags go missing at CDG is more common than not since the ground handling is handled the "AA way". I don't know why this is so. It does not mean that it will happen all the time.. but rather, it is common.

Bags can go missing anywhere and at anytime. And when it does happen, we all hope that that little plastic tag on the handle of the missing bag will get noticed and someone will report it.

We hope!

This thread has amazed me.
Firstly, the background to my first ever complaint!
I had a problem with Cathay but I hadn't paid for 1st class nor was I upgraded. I paid for Business Class from Glasgow [Scotland] to Sydney so that I could sleep. This was about 5x the economy fare. I also had a stop over in Hong Kong for three nights as it was such a long journey and I am no longer a youngster. :p
Well! The air-conditioning above my seat was broken. Ice-cold air came pouring in and the crew, who were delightful,tried to remedy the situation by first of all banging on it and when that didn't work by celotaping a piece of cardboard over it. Bliss--------for a few seconds and then the cardboard came crashing down on my face, leaving a mark which didn't disappear for a few days. I asked to be moved to coach but it was full. I arrived in HK exhausted as I didn't close my eyes once and with a streaming nose which develped into a full blown cold and I wasn't able to leave my hotel until I left for Australia. I had packed away my warm outdoor clothes and even coming from a cold climate I had never exerienced such cold. The gentleman sitting next to me in the aisle seat went off and slept on the floor for a little while.
I was to have delivered a lecture in the University the following day but was unable to do so!
I did send a letter of compaint and phoned twice and after my 3rd phone call I was eventually compensated. They sent me a little food hamper which I donated to a local hospice. I would have choked on the contents as I felt quite insulted. :mad:
I shall be travellng to Australia later in the year but guess which airline will not get my custom.
That's my tale. :)

The air-conditioning above my seat was broken. Ice-cold air came pouring in and the crew, who were delightful,tried to remedy the situation by first of all banging on it and when that didn't work by celotaping a piece of cardboard over it. Bliss--------for a few seconds and then the cardboard came crashing down on my face, leaving a mark which didn't disappear for a few days.

Oh boy! And I thought I was unlucky when we had a two hour delay in Bangkok to fix the air conditioning!! Rather they fixed it than go through what you did.....

Okay people....

Individual critisism of others are not allowed...

Either stick to the subject or don't post at all. But the last few posts got a little too much in personal attacks and opinions (TOS no-no's) and I've had to remove them rather than edit them.

Thank you !


Guy Betsy
Cathay Pacific Asiamiles Forum Moderator

Thank you.
I'm glad you removed MY post as I had come down to the level of my antagoniser instead of ignoring him.
I apologise to the rest of you for my part in the unpleasantness.

Thank you for your comments, mise. We do want you to continue posting here.. Sometimes people can get heated up over small issues..and its nice to put a little humor instead of getting aggrevated.

And oh yes, welcome to FlyerTalk !

Hi Guy Betsy,
I have had helpful messages from folks so I have decided to take advice offered and write to the CEO. I think this is good advice.

Well contrary to Guy Betsy's gloom and doom. Cathay was very helpful and reasonable. They agreed to seat was broken and they are providing two one way upgrades (as they should). Gee... guess Cigarman wasn't a moron after all... :rolleyes:
Maybe next time someone posts in this forum, one or two people might remmber this incident with how you flamed me for asking for reasonable compensation. The proof is in the pudding. Both Cathay and I agree. The only person out of step he are those one or two unhelpful people in this forum to newbees. :td: Treat new posters the way you would treat houseguests... then they might come back.

So in fact we could have curtailed the thread at the second post, which seems to have been pretty accurate... :)

Well really the problem with the original post was the tone and approach of the post. The OP really came across as a gold-digger, rather than as someone with a genuine complaint. It's not the only post that the OP has posted on these boards that has come across that way.

I think that cathay oversold j and had to put them in first. Its out of the op's control in regards to the seat malfunction. I think that expectations of customer service is different amongst cultures.

Well contrary to Guy Betsy's gloom and doom. Cathay was very helpful and reasonable. They agreed to seat was broken and they are providing two one way upgrades (as they should). Gee... guess Cigarman wasn't a moron after all... :rolleyes:
Maybe next time someone posts in this forum, one or two people might remmber this incident with how you flamed me for asking for reasonable compensation. The proof is in the pudding. Both Cathay and I agree. The only person out of step he are those one or two unhelpful people in this forum to newbees. :td: Treat new posters the way you would treat houseguests... then they might come back.

Cigarman, Glad that things worked out well for you!

Well really the problem with the original post was the tone and approach of the post. The OP really came across as a gold-digger, rather than as someone with a genuine complaint. It's not the only post that the OP has posted on these boards that has come across that way.Agree 100% - the chair was a definite issue - the other two were laughable - thus the scorn.

But the comments about newbies are true - maybe some of the Long Timers should just ignore rather than post caustic responses - if for no other reason so the owners of this board can keep growing it.

What should one ask to be compensated for if a special meal is ordered but not loaded on the aircraft.

On a flt JFK-HKG I requested a kosher meal (even though I am not Jewish) at the time of booking. As fate would have it, I ended up in the far end of coach. All of the first and biz class seats were either sold or upgraded by people with a higher standing than myself. So, no upgrade for me. Since I was deep in coach, by the time the food service cart arrived at my isle, all of the good meals had been taken. All that was left was some nasty chicken fat like meat and probably the worst rice ball I have ever tasted and IMHO it was not edible. I queried on of the f/as and of course I was informed they had no record of my request and had no more meals left.

So, what do you think I should ask for and what do you think I will really get?

What should one ask to be compensated for if a special meal is ordered but not loaded on the aircraft.

On a flt JFK-HKG I requested a kosher meal (even though I am not Jewish) at the time of booking. As fate would have it, I ended up in the far end of coach. All of the first and biz class seats were either sold or upgraded by people with a higher standing than myself. So, no upgrade for me. Since I was deep in coach, by the time the food service cart arrived at my isle, all of the good meals had been taken. All that was left was some nasty chicken fat like meat and probably the worst rice ball I have ever tasted and IMHO it was not edible. I queried on of the f/as and of course I was informed they had no record of my request and had no more meals left.

So, what do you think I should ask for and what do you think I will really get?

I believe the airline is not liable for not fulfilling a meal request. So there is not much that can be done. You can file a complaint, but I am not sure whether anything will happen.

Side notes:
* JFK-HKG - Upgrades (mileage/op-ups) are very difficult to come by. Also, chance of upgrade on x-HKG is better than on x-JFK.
* Special meals should be requested at least 24 hours ahead.
* Special meals pretty much disqualify a passenger from an op-up.

It is hard to say whether the FAs will start serving from the front or the back. I often skip meals on airlines (because airline food is only so-so) and have snacks instead. Hope you have better luck next time.

What I think you should ask for: The CEO's resignation and one millon Asiamiles in compensation (or else.... you will sue them!)

You know what we do when we get consumer complaints? We always read them out over lunch... some (in fact prehaps most) are really hilarious! What a great way to lighten up!

Just for interest - why did you order a Kosher meal?

Just for interest - why did you order a Kosher meal?


Simple answer. I find the Kosher meals a better than the other meals that are served. So far anyway