Newsstand - Airlines cramming more seats into Boeing's Dreamliner

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2006-02-21-dreamliner-seats_x.htm
Posted 2/21/2006 10:24 AM Updated 2/21/2006 10:51 AM
Airlines cramming more seats into Boeing's Dreamliner

SINGAPORE (Reuters) — Airlines are choosing to cram more seats into Boeing's hot-selling new 787 Dreamliner than the company expected, giving the plane a potentially decisive advantage over its Airbus rival.

Senior Boeing sales executive Randy Baseler said typical seating in the 787-9 version of the aircraft would rise to about 280 from 259 if airlines switched to having nine seats per row in economy class rather than eight as Boeing had expected.

Two-thirds of 787 buyers have decided to fit nine seats in each row in economy, executives from the Chicago-based manufacturer said at the Singapore air show on Tuesday.

That's about right.

:td: :td:

I hope purchasers of the Airbus products are less-willing to stuff too many seats into not enough space.

"When we initially started to bring the 787 to the market we felt the market would be for eight abreast and more comfort" than earlier planes, Boeing's sales manager for the project, Marty Bentrott, told reporters.

"But 65% of our customers are going for nine abreast, and we think that (ratio) will probably go up."


I know it is not FT PC to call people names, but can I say this about 65% of Boeings customers: You B*st*rds.

Dear Boeing:

That money in your pocket does not come from the airlines, your customers. It only goes throught their bank account. It comes from their customers, people like me, the airline passengers. Who will pay for a wider seat. (I'm talking that extra 7.5% you are claiming to save. Don't give me the Just Pay 500% more and buy a FC tic.) How do you know? You don't, because I do not have the opportunity to patronize an airline with a one inch wider seat. The corporate CEO and Beancounters, with their million dollar golden parachutes and pension plans, will buy the nine seating and say "look, people are flying it, so they must love it." No, it just happens that we must travel and you are one of the airlines going there.

Enough ranting, I'm going off to buy a lottery ticket. If I win $500 million, I'll buy a small airline just for the fun of being able to fire all the top mismanagement. :D After I make them fly every day for six months in the center seat of a 9 across till they claim it's "cruel and unusual punishment" :D

Another example of how out of touch airlines are with their customers. Yeah, let's continue to cram us in like sardines in a tin can.

Another example of how out of touch airlines are with their customers. Yeah, let's continue to cram us in like sardines in a tin can.


Or the frequent fliers are out of touch with just how much the no-status passengers are willing to put up with. ;) Only time will tell.

Maybe they can make the newly named B787 NightmareLiner(tm) a single aisle aircraft with 5 and 5 seating. Then think of all the $$$ they will coin.

MisterNice

Maybe they can make the newly named B787 NightmareLiner(tm) a single aisle aircraft with 5 and 5 seating. Then think of all the $$$ they will coin.

MisterNice

Don't forget the jump seats that flip out to fill that aisle space and make it seating for 11 across :)

Stop giving the bloody accountants more ideas!!!!

This is not good news. :(

Wait until we get "standing room only", with a belt or two strapping passengers to a vertical board. :eek: ;)

If I recall, when the brand spankin new 767's, 777's, A330's and A340's were in the final stages of production, this same issue was decried.

If I recall, when the brand spankin new 767's, 777's, A330's and A340's were in the final stages of production, this same issue was decried.

I bet, these airlines wish there would be no FAA with their evacuation/emergency rules. otherwise, we would get ryanair/easyjet rowdistance and 10 in a row.

we have to be in fact thankful for these regulations!

Well I see a lot of not too smart people alk about how great EK is, and they are notorious for jamming an extra seat across on 777's....

What are the seat widths when they do 9?

Well I see a lot of not too smart people alk about how great EK is, and they are notorious for jamming an extra seat across on 777's....

which is in fact a smart decision, cause the vast vast majority of flyers only care about the fare. Nevertheless EK was able to get a four star rating, so obviously all other service items are not bad...

While speaking of EK, I am wondering you do not fire your usual comments about subsidies, cause surprisingly you would be right in this case...

What are the seat widths when they do 9?
~17.2". Exactly the same as 10 across on the 744.

Because that had nothing to do with the subject matter.

I hope purchasers of the Airbus products are less-willing to stuff too many seats into not enough space.

You cannot physically fit nine-abreast seating in an A350 (well you can, but at like 15" or less width).

While the cabin interior is wider then the A330/A340, the fuselage diameter is not, so 2+4+2 is as many as you can put in. Right now that seating is 18" wide, so it is possible Airbus could offer 19" wide seats.


Dear Boeing...

Not sure why you're ranting at Boeing, since they just install the seats the airlines deliver to their front door. :confused:

While it would have been nice to have 19" wide seats (and we may yet see them in the premium Economy cabins), more seats means lower trip costs which means lower prices.

If airlines thought they could command a fare premium for offering wider seats, they'd do it. But look at airlines like EK, with 10-abreast in the 777 (vs. 9-abreast on most other carriers), who can then offer lower fares and soak up more demand.

Or the frequent fliers are out of touch with just how much the no-status passengers are willing to put up with. ;) Only time will tell.
No status customers don;t have to fly a specific airline. If airlines operating aircraft with more room, be it airbus or boeing can sell a seat at the same price, many will choose more room. As a Plat I put up with some incovenience to maintain my staus and keep flying the same airline. For me, it may be time to quit chasing status, go for comfort and fly less. We have over 2 million miles and have used over a million and half. It's becoming more difficult to use the miles. Accumulating miles by doing mileage runs is becoming less atarctive to me. People like me would go for comfort even if a seat costs a bit more as total annual cost will still be less when we don't do the extra mileage runs needed to maintain the status.

If airlines operating aircraft with more room, be it airbus or boeing can sell a seat at the same price, many will choose more room.

Assuming customers are educated enough to know the difference. ;)

Also, more seats allows airlines to offer lower fares. So a nine-abreast 787 doing LAX-SYD can offer cheaper fares then an eight-abreast 787 or A350, which will be the decision trigger far, far more often then comfort or IFE.

Maybe they can make the newly named B787 NightmareLiner(tm) a single aisle aircraft with 5 and 5 seating. Then think of all the $$$ they will coin.

^ LOL

In high school I took some cross country trips on chartered Trailways busses. Oh did I date myself? :D The overhead luggage racks were large enough for us to climb in, stretch out and actually get some sleep. There was a steady rotation up into the racks.

ALL they have to do is ban all carry on luggage, redo the overheads into berths, and sell 40 more seats- - err- -passenger storage spaces- - per plane. Think of the revenue.

Put a vacuum Bladder Emptying Tube at every seat, and cut trips to the lav 90%. Then install seat belts on the floor and sell those Steerage Class seats. At lest 10 to 20 more bodies tied to the floor. Think of the revenue. Of course, no more drink carts down the aisle possible, but heck, they're eliminating all of that anyway and now they have an excuse.

For Super Standby, those last minute $50 seats will be popular in the "We'll turn the heat on in the cargo hold just for you" cages. Pax will have to be locked in unused dog cages, to cut down the temptation to do a little "duty free" browsing in the luggage "Unlocked per TSA Orders." Think of the revenue.

Do like the cruise ships, and be exempt from those pesky FAA evacuation regs by registering in Liberia or Thirdworldistan. Or buy a few congressmen and get a loophole law passed for Part Ultimate Deregulation airlines. Think of the tax savings.

I bet we can cram 60 to 100 more people in a 787 NightmareLiner(tm). Over 200 more if we use a little phenobarbitol and stack the unconscious pax like cordwood, held down by a cargo net. After all, pax are not customers, they are "breathing cargo commodity units" to the corporate bean counters that run the world.

Think of the revenue!

You cannot physically fit nine-abreast seating in an A350 (well you can, but at like 15" or less width).

While the cabin interior is wider then the A330/A340, the fuselage diameter is not, so 2+4+2 is as many as you can put in. Right now that seating is 18" wide, so it is possible Airbus could offer 19" wide seats.


Air Transat of Canada does put 3-3-3 seating on their A310 and A330s.

Air Transat of Canada does put 3-3-3 seating on their A310 and A330s.

So does Thomas Cook (on their A330s).

Standard A330 config is 8x18" with 19" aisles.

So 9x16" with 19" aisles would work. *shudder*

Don't forget the jump seats that flip out to fill that aisle space and make it seating for 11 across :)

Japanese Subways are the new model the airline industry will follow.

And the flight attendants will be sent to the ball parks to throw snacks like they do at baseball games.

Sorry, duplicate idea.

At least it'll be more roomier than the A380 (which the airlines will probably pack it to the gills too). :rolleyes:

At least it'll be more roomier than the A380 (which the airlines will probably pack it to the gills too). :rolleyes:

The A380 will start with probably 3+4+3 at 18-19" on the main deck, but expect them to roll out 3+5+3 at 17" at the next refit (though EK might roll it out on Day One).

This is thoroughly depressing, though I understand the rationale of the airlines in doing it. I can't blame them for wanting 30-35 extra seats worth of revenue on every single flight.

For long-haul a/c, it seems that a 4-class plane is the trend:

First with twin-size beds and a jacuzzi (ok, not really, but...) (1-2-1)
Business with flat beds (2-2-2)
"Status Coach" with 2-4-2 19" seats, 35" pitch
"Fare War" with 3-3-3 18" seats, 31" pitch

I'm woefully lacking in knowledge of the non-US carriers. I know that BA has 4-class, and seem to remember seeing something like it on Eva. VS has 3-class, with Upper Class doing F/J.

Is there a trend outside the US to split coach like this?

I'm woefully lacking in knowledge of the non-US carriers. I know that BA has 4-class, and seem to remember seeing something like it on Eva. VS has 3-class, with Upper Class doing F/J.

Is there a trend outside the US to split coach like this?

BA, EVA and ANA are the only ones I know of with 4-class planes. [Unless you count UA's E+ as a seperate class.] But even EVA is moving to 3-class only with their new 777, eliminating the F cabin.

So does this obviate the need for a -10 Stretchliner series? (506504). The other thread also discusses cannibalizing the 777-200ER market.

So does this obviate the need for a -10 Stretchliner series?

While the higher-density seating config brings capacity of the 787-9 very close to the A350-900, it now allows the 787-10 to exceed the A359's seating capacity, lowering per-seat operating costs even more and making the plane that much more attractive to airlines.

So Boeing will launch the 787-10 and sacrifice the 777-200ER, as the 787-10 should see even stronger interest (and once offered, sales) then before.