MilesBuzz! - Book a refundable ticket just to get through security?

Would you do this? (I'm contemplating it, but have not yet done it yet).

My mother is coming to visit, and she is elderly. She's very mobile, but she would prefer that I meet her at the gate. I know this sounds kind of stupid, but would you simply book a refundable ticket so that you could enter the secure area for this purpose?

Is this a punishable offense?

BooBooKitty - I doubt it's punishable... borderline unethical, perhaps. But, some CSRs are "promoting" it as a way to get through security. And I've heard of a few FTers pull this trick to get through. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif



------------------
"What do you mean you didn't get miles for that?!"

I was just thinking this the other day while standing in the security line at ATL. If someone really wanted to get through security without any intention of flying, they could do this. Kind of defeats the purpose of not allowing unticketed passengers through security.

Nothing to add of substance- just enjoyed your screen name.


Sincerely,

Silent Bob.

The other way to do it is to get a pass to help your mother but I guess that means she would have to be trundled out in a wheelchair.

I'd try for a pass before trying this. It will certainly work, but who knows what they are tracking now. I don't know about Atlanta, but in Newark you can not get to the gates with a ticket, you have to have it converted to a boarding pass or get a pass from an express agent (at least at United) to get to the gate. Paper tickets, e-tickets are not enough to get through security, you either stand in line and get a boarding pass or get some pass at the express line, so it may not even work if Atlanta is the same.

cordelli, I think you can still take a refund on the ticket even though you've already checked in and have a boarding pass.

Am I right?

Jeff http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cool.gif

Buying a full fare first ticket will also get you into any lounge for free.

When they opened the Bradley terminal at LAX they only allowed ticketed passengers. I was an LAX nut and wanted to see the terminal. I bought a ticket to Korea (for about $2000), visited the terminal, then refunded the ticket and went home.

The simplest way to do this via Delta.com (if you have at least 25k miles) is to select a frequent flier award itinerary online (but not book it). It will show up in "My Itineraries" as a trip that has been bought and confirmed. This could then be printed and handed to security as an e-ticket. I've not done this, but it seems like it would be pretty easy. This seems like a pretty big loophole!

This should work, although I'd discourage anyone from doing it unless it was absolutely necessary.

Also, I've heard that some airlines can take quite a while to actually post refunds to your credit card account, sometimes 1-2 months. So, you might want to take that into account, if it is an issue for you.

d

Given the current environemnt, I would suggest purchasing a roundtrip ticket instead of a one-way fare.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pjs:
I was just thinking this the other day ...........Kind of defeats the purpose of not allowing unticketed passengers through security.</font>

Keeping unticketed passengers out of secure areas may not be so much for "security" as it is intended to lessen the burden on the the already overwhelmed security checkpoints. The lines are long enough. Who need looky-loos and do-gooders adding to the lines, when there are acceptable options.

In my experience in the past month, those who go through security without ANY carry-on luggage are examined, and questioned, thoroughly. Again, slowing things down.

May a lengthy PROBE be your fate......

I was going to do this at LAX when my parents came to visit also but I never got around to it. You are one person & not likely to clog up the security line & I don't think the "what if everyone did this" argument would apply. LAX can be an intimidating place for your elderly mother to navigate.Go for it.
I also like your screen name. Laverne & Shirley, right?

I did this during the Gulf War to get though security at DFW. I didn't have any problems, other than the credit taking awhile to post to my account.

So, my friends and I could theoretically book four $12,000 tickets on the Concorde, check in and get boarding passes, visit the Concorde lounge for a few hours of cavorting, then not board the plane and ask for a refund? Not that I would ever do that, but is it really plausible??

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by clublounger:
May a lengthy PROBE be your fate......</font>

Dude chill. She's going to meet her elderly mother, not attending an airport FT party.

I would agree that you should buy a r/t ticket. Just buy a r/t ticket to SAN, PHX or LAS - something cheap.

What makes you think that BooBooKitty is a she?

And some people think snake in an "it"!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by corky:
....I don't think the "what if everyone did this" argument would apply. </font>

and I don't necessarily agree....

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TravelManKen
Dude chill[/b]</font>

done. Cold, actually.

For what it's worth, I think it's cool that we all try to benefit from loopholes, etc. in mileage programs and the like. But, in this day, I feel it's just better if people don't try to circumvent the rules that have been put in place to make things safer and as efficient as possible. Not that they are safe nor efficient, just hopefully more so.

Remember, we're talking about a woman that is

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">...very mobile, but she would prefer that I meet her at the gate.
[/b]</font>


[This message has been edited by clublounger (edited 11-08-2001).]

Clublounger;
OK, I give up. How is boobookitty's picking up his/her mother having ANY effect on anyone's safety? Puh-leeze

I just see this as wasting people's time and money. In order to do this, you will need to:

1. Call and make a reservation, costing the airline phone time and the reservationist's time or wait in line at the airport/CTO, again wasting an agent's time. Meanwhile, people who are actual customers will have to wait longer to speak to someone on the phone or get to the front of the line in person.

2. The airline will ticket you and charge your credit card money. The transaction is relatively insignificant on the credit card processing system. But, the airline is going to mail you a ticket and/or receipt if you buy it over the phone, or give you a ticket and receipt in person. This is a waste of paper. Again, maybe not a significant one, but a waste, nonetheless.

3. You'll have to go through security. Since you won't have any luggage, you might look suspicious and get a more detailed screening. This will delay the screening of real passengers, some of whom may have a plane to catch in a hurry. This delay may be a few seconds or a few minutes, depending on how many people you occupy and for how long.

4. After picking someone up/dropping someone off, you're then going to either call the airline or show up in person. Again, you'll be wasting more people's time and paper.

Phone calls to companies can cost anywhere from a few dollars per call to $20-25 per call. Mailing stuff costs around $0.50-$1. Agent's time in person is difficult to quantify and, like paper, is a relatively insiginficant cost.

Though adding up all of these costs still comes up with a relatively low total cost, you're still wasting time and money.

Perhaps if you can manage to purchase a cheap ticket, let's say $20, and not request a refund, then I'll be satisfied.

d

What is the big deal? First of all, it should be obvious that the rule requiring an airline ticket is not there to improve safety, it's there to ration security.

If airlines were truly interested in people not buying refundable tickets just to meet someone at the gate, then they would pay more money to increase the supply of screening so that security doesn't have to be rationed. That would benefit everyone, ticketed or not. Alas, that costs more than spending a few bucks refunding a ticket to someone who never had an intention of flying.

Regarding how much it costs the airline to refund a ticket -- so what? Do you decline the beverage or meal if there is one, to help them save money? Do you refuse to fly any plane other than a 757 to help them save fuel? They're a business, not a charity.

To sbrowner: how did you get out of the Bradley terminal without going through U.S. Customs, it doesn't look there is any other way out.

I tend to agree with Doppy and Clublounger on this one. Exploiting this loophole has a lot of less-than-desirable side effects. My first reaction when I read the initial post was that this simply adds unnecessary volume at the security checkpoint, on the phone, and in the checkin lines. Yes, I know one case is trivial, but it might not be to the person behind you in line, waiting for you to do something unnecessary and against the current desires of our country (misguided as the FAA can sometimes be...).

As for cost to the airline, I know we all hoard miles here, look for bonus opportunities, and are pretty good at finding cheap airfares when we need to. But that doesn't mean we don't want our airlines to be profitable. Doing something idiotic like this DOES cost them money. I don't buy the argument that because they jammed you once before for a change fee that you should jam them right back with fraudulent ticketing.

Finally, I'd react differently if this were a case of a disabled person or an elderly person unable to travel without assistance. In those cases, you can get a pass to go to the gate, plain and simple. But this isn't that case at all.

I'm not terribly concerned about the costs to the airlines, I was just noting them, as well as the delays that other real travelers may face. I am concerned about the general feeling among all people (not just FTers) that they need to get something for free from airlines every time they fly (or don't fly). I think AAFA put it well in an AA thread a couple months ago when she said something to the effect of "I don't go to a shoestore and buy a cheesy pair of shoes, then ask them to upgrade me to Gucci's for free."

Meanwhile, while it is great for some people to go with their friends/family to the gate, it's also a burden on people who are actually traveling. Like the two dozen people who need to see Grandma off before she takes a weekend trip to Florida, or the two dozen people who need to welcome Grandma home when she gets back from a weekend trip to Florida.

Obviously this many people would cause more of a slowdown in the security line than one person, but that's not the point. People in every other country and at some airports in the US have lived for years and years having to say goodbye at security. If you only have travelers go through security you speed up the operation and allow the screeners to pay more attention to a fewer number of people.

But, to ask airlines to pay for more security screeners so that non-travelers can enter the sterile area? That sounds ridiculous to me. If non-travelers really need to get through security, maybe they should lobby for a system to be imposed where a $5 or $10 fee to pay for the costs associated with the security screening can be collected for those who want to enter the sterile area, but don't have a legitimate reason to do so. But don't pass that cost along to me, an actual traveler.

d

Hmm... non-ticketed fee? OK, but $5 is way too much. Assuming five minutes of labor and $12 an hour, that's only $1. In reality, it costs much less than that. But, I would be happy to pay $1 to go through security to meet my mother at the gate. Heck, I'd pay $1 just to plane-spot! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I don't believe delaying the person behind you at security or the phone queue to get a refund is relevant. I could call every airline to get a fare quote instead of going to Expedia.com -- is that such a bad thing?

Even worse, I change planes instead of flying non-stop to get another segment and more miles. That means people behind me boarding on my connecting flight who are taking the first of a two flight trip are delayed, quite possibly causing them to mis-connect. I'm also using up a seat on not one, but two flights that may result in them being overbooked, causing someone who was trying to book a flight at the last minute to miss a funeral or a dying relative's last words.

See where this is going? It's one thing to be considerate, such as holding a door open or helping a blind person cross the street. But to abstain from going through the security checkpoint? That's insignificant IMHO.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Meilensammler:
Buying a full fare first ticket will also get you into any lounge for free.</font>

This, generally speaking, is not true for domestic US flights on most airlines. The clubs are primarily membership clubs, not premium cabin clubs. Most airlines do offer this perk for trans-oceanic premium cabin passengers, and possibly for certain trans-continental flagship routes.

As I was reading this thread, I was thinking like a Devil's Advocate.

I would expect with the security at Airports today, that if you bought a ticket, checked in, and then cancelled the ticket, the airline would have to A) recheck to make sure that you were not on Board, B) Check to make absolutely sure that you did not check in any luggage. This could also entail the plane and Gate area being evacuated and the luggage being off-loaded. The end result could be a several hour delay for the other passengers on the flight.

I would suggest calling the airline to find out about getting a pass to the gate to meet Grandmother.

Hey, agree with everyone that buying a ticket and taking all this time and causing other delays is wrong.

BUT, if you need or want to be in the terminal, that is what you have to do. We have made some silly decisions that airport terminals are a national threat and put these rules into place. Until we realize we have over reacted and get back to sanity, this is the way it is.

And the waste by a small number of people of buying tickets is nothing compared to those that have to arrive 2-4 hours early for flights, miss flights, etc, etc. All with minimal increase in security. I think I saw that some 50-60 million people flew in October. Tell me the delays and hassles they went through, and for what?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pjs:
I was just thinking this the other day while standing in the security line at ATL. If someone really wanted to get through security without any intention of flying, they could do this. Kind of defeats the purpose of not allowing unticketed passengers through security.</font>

In the airport in a locale in South Asia, I was told that no passenger is allowed to leave the terminal once allowed in, unless the flight is cancelled after entering. There have to be a lot of other exceptions, imaginably.

I have been thinking about this topic for a few weeks. For those who are familiar with me you know that I have a 5 year old son who loves to go to Newark Airport and spend the day plane spotting. We would ride the monorail, watch the planes, shop in the stores (toys, candy etc), eat lunch in the restaurants (esp. in Terminal C) and have snack in the CO Presdints Club.

We did this every other month or so and had a lot of fun. We always tried to combine this with another activity such as visiting the Statue of Liberty, going to my office to pick up something or see a client, or when I had to pick up grandma at the airport. We paid for parking, paid for meals and toys, tipped the bartender at the Pres Club and contributed to the airport's financial well being in a very positive way. In addition, by taking my son out I gave my wife a break so she could do other things. I have another son who is about to turn 2 next month and would probably start joining us soon on our airport runs. However, I have not gone to the airport since 9/11 but have thought about buying refundable tickets so we could visit but it is not worth the effort or hassle. I just feel bad for all the merchants who are losing lots of business because we can't get through security. And I feel bad my son can't plane watch because of the terrorists actions.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by amazing nj:
I just feel bad for all the merchants who are losing lots of business because we can't get through security. And I feel bad my son can't plane watch because of the terrorists actions. </font>

Which brings up an interesting idea. Wouldn't it be nice if the airport (or an airline for whom the airport is a hub) could sponsor "visits" like these? They can check you against any lists they have in advance. You can get a pass in advance so they will expect you to have no luggage. You'll be advised to leave anything metallic home. (You'll breeze through security.)

You can go to the airport and show that you still love planes. (I do. So do my son and daughter.)

I hear that airports are really suffering. Just like the efforts to visit NYC, this can be seen as patriotic.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Doppy:
Also, I've heard that some airlines can take quite a while to actually post refunds to your credit card account, sometimes 1-2 months. So, you might want to take that into account, if it is an issue for you.</font>

Doppy -

if you use an AMEX card for your airline tickets, and for any reason get a refund, just call AMEX and tell them that you are "disputing the change pending a refund". AMEX will put a hold on that money, and not make you pay it. It also speeds up the process of getting your money back. Personally, I think they should have to refund the money within 24 hours, or the amount automatically goes up, just like res!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by pjs:
Kind of defeats the purpose of not allowing unticketed passengers through security.</font>

The purpose of the exercise is so that everyone has a ticket, and is therefore run through the computer and against the FBI "no-fly" list.

Even if you don't fly on the ticket, you're in the computer, which is what they want.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mapsmith:
As I was reading this thread, I was thinking like a Devil's Advocate.

I would expect with the security at Airports today, that if you bought a ticket, checked in, and then cancelled the ticket, the airline would have to A) recheck to make sure that you were not on Board, B) Check to make absolutely sure that you did not check in any luggage. This could also entail the plane and Gate area being evacuated and the luggage being off-loaded. The end result could be a several hour delay for the other passengers on the flight.

I would suggest calling the airline to find out about getting a pass to the gate to meet Grandmother.</font>

Assuming you buy an e-ticket, it's much easier to process the refund at home by phone than at the airport before the flight leaves.

Besides, people no-show on flights all the time. Airlines don't evacuate the plane and cargo hold because of no-shows.

I too would like to meet my rather fragile mother at the gate in DFW in a few weeks when she comes to visit me.
I read that there is an official way to be allowed in to meet a passenger (presumably with a good reason). Will comb the AA and Delta sites to see if there is anyhting offical on the topic.
My guess is that parents are somehow allowed in to pick up unaccompanied minors?

amazing nj, I enjoyed your post. Have you contacted CO or EWR officials to suggest this? I think this is a great idea, especially for school age kids who may have been (or still are) very frightened by what happened on September 11. People may say "yeah, right, that's all we need right now is a bunch of non passenger kids adding to the mess at the airports, etc etc".

Well, OK. But I still think this is a great thing to do with your kids or your students in cooperation with airport officials and perhaps the airlines. I would have loved a field trip to the airport as a little kid. It's never too early to learn about travel, security, airplanes, and all sorts of interesting stuff (including MILES!).

Get the airlines to do some clever marketing here to sponsor these sorts of visits - if they can't get the adults to fly again, maybe interested kids can. Good luck with this, amazing nj. I know your sons will appreciate this now and especially when they're older.

Back on topic: BooBooKitty, what airline is your mother flying? Why can't you ask the airline if they can facilitate you? Or the airport? Have you tried calling? Has anyone called about this? It seems like this would be the most straightforward way to get information on the topic before buying a ticket that won't be used and then hassling about the refund.

[This message has been edited by blairvanhorn (edited 11-11-2001).]

I have been contemplating this same idea for when my wife's parents come to visit us at Christmas. They are both in their 80's and very frail. I have been waiting for the airlines and the FAA to make a reasonable accommodation for this situation. Would certainly be willing to pay a $10 fee and have my identity checked to do it.

Interview with Ron Wilson, spokesman for SFO, on KCBS radio this morning. He said that airport revenues were expected to be down $100 million for the year ending 6/30/02. Also that concessions were down 40% compared to this time last year.

Seems to me that we've created a downward spiral for airport revenues by closing the concourses to visitors. Less parking revenue from meeters and greeters and less concession revenues mean less to spend on security improvments. Also an employee who could be screening bags or helping customers is stuck at the front of the line checking boarding passes.

The new International Terminal at SFO was designed for visitor access with many shops and restaurants located in the concourse area. Many were on thin ice before, I can't see them hanging on for much longer with many potential customers on the worng side of the checkpoint.

If we screen everyone, why restrict access?

Ted,

The problem now is probably not security - its getting people through the lines. The lines are already far too long now with the extra screening, so letting the visitors also join in could dramatically lengthen the time it takes to get through.

ff

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Ted:
Interview with Ron Wilson, spokesman for SFO, .. He said that airport revenues were expected to be down $100 million for the year ending 6/30/02. ...?</font>

People keep saying you can/should not put a price on security, but $100m here, $100m there and we are into the billions. Then you add in the loss of income and jobs by those that used to work at the airport, and then they can not pay the rent, then they are homeless, and yes there is a cost.

Why are we doing this? Why?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by EchoVictor:
The simplest way to do this via Delta.com (if you have at least 25k miles) is to select a frequent flier award itinerary online (but not book it). It will show up in "My Itineraries" as a trip that has been bought and confirmed. This could then be printed and handed to security as an e-ticket. I've not done this, but it seems like it would be pretty easy. This seems like a pretty big loophole!</font>

I flew out of LAX yesteday and my paperwork was studied by a DL agent before going up the escalator that goes to the security gate checkpoint. I am sure that she would have caught on to this trick as she took her time to examine everything.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Rssrsvp:
I flew out of LAX yesteday and my paperwork was studied by a DL agent before going up the escalator that goes to the security gate checkpoint. I am sure that she would have caught on to this trick as she took her time to examine everything. </font>

The online itineraries at delta.com are ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL whether or not you have actually purchased the ticket. And I know at least TWO people who have used this exact trick to get past security at LAX, so it obviously passes their scrutiny. However, as was pointed out, the purpose of the entire charade is to *screen* the names of the potential passengers against a watch list. This is accomplished whether or not you actually fly or even ticket your itinerary.

And you are not breaking any rules. The rule states that "ONLY TICKETED PERSONS" are allowed past security. Well, you bought a ticket, didn't you? That makes you ticketed.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mapsmith:
As I was reading this thread, I was thinking like a Devil's Advocate.

I would expect with the security at Airports today, that if you bought a ticket, checked in, and then cancelled the ticket, the airline would have to A) recheck to make sure that you were not on Board, B) Check to make absolutely sure that you did not check in any luggage. This could also entail the plane and Gate area being evacuated and the luggage being off-loaded. The end result could be a several hour delay for the other passengers on the flight.

I would suggest calling the airline to find out about getting a pass to the gate to meet Grandmother.</font>


To get past security at LAX you just need a copy of your e-receipt. The e-receipt needs to have a ticket number.

My friend was flying from LAX-JFK yesterday and I didn't want her to have to wait by herself, so I bought a refundable first class ticket and didn't encounter any problems getting through security.

The 1K room at LAX took care of many ticketing needs for me eversince it opened. Besides excellent service it is the closest UA ticketing facility in the L.A. area for me. I would certainly appreciate the opportunity to be able to continue using the 1K rooms services, even if encountered a little wait to get there.

Discussing this with a LAX RCC agent (flying out on a SU with the 1K room closed) she indicated that security required to create a electronic/paper trail for anybody entering the gate area.

Keep my fingers crossed, eventually to be able to get back to the 1K room.

The original suggestion will work just fine.
I have done this once. [Purchase a round
trip tkt] via a travel agent.

Of course; once you've got one electronic
confirmation, it is trivial to dummy-up a
duplicate for whatever date, flight, name
you choose.

I've done it twice since 9/11 to meet others
at the gate.

It ain't security. It ain't about security.
It's about a bunch of congresscritters who
are trying to keep their phoney-baloney jobs.

-doug

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kluau88:
My friend was flying from LAX-JFK yesterday and I didn't want her to have to wait by herself, so I bought a refundable first class ticket and didn't encounter any problems getting through security.</font>


Wow, you are the most thoughtful friend I've ever heard of. Boy, I wish that EVERYONE I knew would just ignore the rules and do as they want. I would never have to be by myself. I might fall to pieces if I'm left to my own devices, after all. Can I PLEASE be your friend?

Keep up the selfish approach.

Aloha

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kluau88:
My friend was flying from LAX-JFK yesterday and I didn't want her to have to wait by herself, so I bought a refundable first class ticket and didn't encounter any problems getting through security.</font>

Am missing something here? Why buy a first class ticket instead of coach? Assume you get your money back soon, but still, why tie up EXTRA money???

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by clublounger:

Wow, you are the most thoughtful friend I've ever heard of. Boy, I wish that EVERYONE I knew would just ignore the rules and do as they want. I would never have to be by myself. I might fall to pieces if I'm left to my own devices, after all. Can I PLEASE be your friend?

Keep up the selfish approach.

Aloha</font>

It's selfish to meet someone at the gate? Please explain.

Oh, gee, I don't know. Maybe because only ticketed passengers are supposed to go through security so that more attention can be focused on those that should be going through security (the more people, the less time they have or the longer the lines become). If everyone did this, the lines would extend from Chicago to New York. Because those are the rules. They are supposed to apply to everyone, not the selfish exception who thinks the rules don't apply to them...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Always Flyin:
Oh, gee, I don't know. Maybe because only ticketed passengers are supposed to go through security so that more attention can be focused on those that should be going through security (the more people, the less time they have or the longer the lines become). If everyone did this, the lines would extend from Chicago to New York. Because those are the rules. They are supposed to apply to everyone, not the selfish exception who thinks the rules don't apply to them...</font>

Well said AF. Retreiving Grandmas are one thing, but meeting an abled bodied person at the gate, give me a friggin break.

Well I faced this situation for the first time. My wife had a flight home Saturday afternoon on Southwest. I parked and thought that I would just wait for her in the lobby instead of circling the airport (cannot wait curbside any longer). Because of flight times I was at the airport about 30 minutes before she landed and I was hungry. I noticed that there was only 3 people in line at security so I approached the SW counter and asked for a pass to the boarding area. I explained that I was waiting for my wife and since there was no wait at secirity would it be O.K. to go up to buy some food (I guess my lack of flying lately has caused me to desire airport food) and watch a little football. The agent asked for my I.D. and my wife's name and flight number, verified everything in her computer, asked me a few security questions, then issued me a gate pass.

I think the key here was honesty. I did not try to B.S. the agent about my wife's health or buy a refundable ticket, I just asked for a pass in a polite way. If there was a line at security I would have just drank coffee and waited in the lobby, however the airport was fairly empty. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

------------------
Ken in Sacramento

TravelManKen:

Yep. BIG difference. You were operating within the rules, not knowingly breaking them for your own reasons.

Glad the agent showed some common sense. It seems to be sorely lacking these days.

Any other reports of being able to get a gate pass?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by vector:
Well said AF. Retreiving Grandmas are one thing, but meeting an abled bodied person at the gate, give me a friggin break.</font>

It should be noted that I was a ticketed passenger. If this was such a big deal, maybe the FF doing mileage runs strictly to get the mileage for status should be examined too. If FF are strictly doing mileage runs, they can be viewed as unneccessary travel/traffic at the airport.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by clublounger:

Wow, you are the most thoughtful friend I've ever heard of. Boy, I wish that EVERYONE I knew would just ignore the rules and do as they want. I would never have to be by myself. I might fall to pieces if I'm left to my own devices, after all. Can I PLEASE be your friend?

Keep up the selfish approach.

Aloha</font>

Ummm, wait, how is this breaking the rules?

The rule says something along the lines of "Only ticketed passengers may proceed beyond the security checkpoint." Am I correct?

Assuming that statement is correct, I will move on. I choose to buy a ticket for same-day travel on the airline. Same-day tickets generally are refundable. I then use that ticket to move beyond the security checkpoint. With a ticket, I am a "Ticketed Passenger", and you cannot argue that I am not. If that ticket allows me a refund, I still am a Ticketed Passenger. So we have not circumvented the rule that states "Only ticketed passengers may proceed beyond the security checkpoint", have we? Ok so please show me where a single rule has been broken. I bet you can't.

However, somehow copying said ticket receipt and modifying the date would be breaking the rules, as I would in effect not be a real ticketed passenger for that day of travel.


[This message has been edited by SRQ Guy (edited 11-13-2001).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">With a ticket, I am a "Ticketed Passenger", and you cannot argue that I am not.</font>
Actually, I could argue that if you had no "intent" to travel that day you may indeed be ticketed, but you are NOT a passenger.

It is amazing, how many people want to play the GAME - BEAT the SYSYTEM!

We don't have to worry about complicating the safetly for the rest of the frequent flyers! Do we!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Doppy:
I just see this as wasting people's time and money. In order to do this, you will need to:

&lt;snip&gt;</font>

I'm sorry to see that you go through so much trouble to travel. I've done this, and will do it again: buy a $50-100 Southwest refundable ticket online (30-60 seconds), print the receipt (5-10 seconds), go to airport, meet friend/family at the gate, go home. Call up at a later time/date and request the refund (30-60 seconds).

This definitely beats sitting outside in your car being harrassed by the airport cops or standing in the concourse (where, bizarrely, they never have any seats). You can relax, get some coffee and a paper, and wait for the plane (just like the old days). And, it really is a nice surprise if they don't expect it. Good for you, BooBooKitty.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Tino:
I'm sorry to see that you go through so much trouble to travel. I've done this, and will do it again: buy a $50-100 Southwest refundable ticket online (30-60 seconds), print the receipt (5-10 seconds), go to airport, meet friend/family at the gate, go home. Call up at a later time/date and request the refund (30-60 seconds).

This definitely beats sitting outside in your car being harrassed by the airport cops or standing in the concourse (where, bizarrely, they never have any seats). You can relax, get some coffee and a paper, and wait for the plane (just like the old days). And, it really is a nice surprise if they don't expect it. Good for you, BooBooKitty.</font>

Besides not being harrassed by the airport cops, people who do this are helping out those businesses at the airport who relied on business of traveling passengers and their guests who would wait with them at the gate or meet them when they came in.

I know a cup of coffee might seem small, but it adds up.

Seats have a nasty habit of taking up space and collecting people that don't move on or around much! Especially when there is a crowd. Then other people, that are standing complain, there are NOT enough seats! People who have to stand will move on and NOT hog the seats. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

So the new federal compromise bill will charge passengers $2.50 per segment up to $5.00 one way.

Maybe you guys could lobby the government to set up self service gate pass kiosks that, for $2.50, will give you a pass to get through security.

I don't have a problem with non-travelers going through security, just as long as I don't have to pay for it.

d

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Doppy:

Maybe you guys could lobby the government to set up self service gate pass kiosks that, for $2.50, will give you a pass to get through security.

</font>

The average cost may be $2.50, but the marginal cost is much less than that (similar to air travel, with fixed costs). Someone going through security who is not going to board a plane should not have to pay more than the marginal cost of the screening, as that person does not benefit from the (supposedly) increased security for air travelers.

I figure the marginal cost is around 25 cents. 50 cents tops. The administrative cost of collecting 50 cents outweighs the benefit of the collecting the 50 cents to begin with. In fact, if they simply didn't check boarding passes and ID's, it would save time and money for everyone. Showing ID three times for one flight does not improve security.

Non-travelers going through security are getting the same benefits as travelers going through security.

Weapons and bombs airside can be dangerous to people in the terminal, as well as in the air.

Airplanes being hijacked and crashed into the ground or buildings is just as dangerous for the people on the plane as it is for the people who are getting crashed into. Besides the economic costs of having property destroyed, emergency services, investigations, etc.. Everyone has a stake in air travel security, not just the people on the plane.

I could also argue that non-travelers' names should be run through the FBI database that everyone else's names are run through, in the interest of security. That would cost money too.

Additionally, non-travelers are taking up security time, delaying the people behind them who may have a plane to catch in a hurry.

And finally, to set up and maintain kiosks there would definitely be a cost.

I'd say charging everyone an equal amount, $2.50, would make plenty of sense. Travelers are already getting penalized because they have to pay $5.00 on a two segment one-way trip, even though they're only going through security once.


Also:
Showing ID three times does improve security:

(1) Picking up your ticket at ticketing. If one doesn't have to show his ID when picking up a ticket, anyone could walk up and get your boarding pass issued for a flight. You wouldn't be so happy if that happened.

(2) Showing ID with your boarding pass at the security line ensures that only ticketed passengers get through security. If one doesn't have to show his ID and boarding pass, then anyone could get through security with anyone else's boarding pass. That would defeat the purpose of only allowing ticketed passengers through security.

(3) Showing ID with your boarding pass to get on the plane is the only way to ensure that the wrong person doesn't get on a flight. If you don't have to show ID to get on a plane, a hijacker on the FBI no-fly list could just have his friend who's not on the list buy a ticket for a flight, check in and get a boarding pass issued. The hijacker could pass through security by buying a ticket for another flight, or forging an e-ticket receipt. Then, he could take his friend's boarding pass and walk onto the flight he planned on hijacking with no problems.

d

Doppy,

a few problems, which can turn this into another long-winded security argument.

1. you are assuming that the potential hijacker is on a "list" already.

2. you are assuming that the potential hijacker is not smart enough to obtain a fake ID (available to most 19-year olds).

3. you are assuming that a potential hijacker isn't smart enough to buy a $30 ticket to gain access to the terminal.

I recently had to show my ID 3 times at Midway even BEFORE I got to the metal detector, then twice more at the gate. Why?

Well, over one week later and I'd like to know what happened to BooBooKitty's mother.

Did she arrive safely? Was BooBoo at the gate?

Again, has anyone actually spoken with a carrier or an airport to find out how to meet someone at a gate if you don't have a ticket?

Just wondering.

[This message has been edited by blairvanhorn (edited 11-16-2001).]

Tino -

You're right, we should definitely have more secure IDs in general. It's way to easy to get fake IDs or perpetrate identity theft.

Anyway, (assuming IDs are relatively secure) you should at least have to show your ID at ticketing and to get on the plane. At ticketing you don't want someone else to pick up your tickets. At the gate if you don't the ID of people boarding you might as well not bother putting names on tickets. If you don't need to show ID then anyone can get on with anyone's boarding pass.

d

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by blairvanhorn:
Well, over one week later and I'd like to know what happened to BooBooKitty's mother.

Did she arrive safely? Was BooBoo at the gate?

Again, has anyone actually spoken with a carrier or an airport to find out how to meet someone at a gate if you don't have a ticket?

Just wondering.

[This message has been edited by blairvanhorn (edited 11-16-2001).]</font>

I don't think you can meet anyone at the gate since it requires getting past security. To get past security you need to have a ticket (boarding pass/e-ticket receipt).

I like the idea of paying for gate access.
I think the fee should be at least $5 if not more. The fee should be designed to compensate for the cost of security and also discourage people who do not have a genuine need to get to the gate. This will ensure that the entire family is not at the gate to greet grandma but people who need to be there can get there.

Another issue are lounges outside the secure area. Currently most US airports do not have any decent restaurant/lounge outside the secure area, except perhaps some international terminals. This means that you do not have a place to hang around when you are planning to meet someone at an airport (say during a layover) or if you reached the airport a couple of hours before the flight time. It should help the airport revenue situation too.

Yea - I bet the restaurants and lounges and shops are really suffering w/ the new rules of only ticketed folks pass security checkpoints.. layout doesn't really accomodate setting up elsewhere in most airports... wonder what they'll do? I'm certain it will somehow impact our travel experience negatively http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SJC2ISP:
I like the idea of paying for gate access.
The fee should be designed to compensate for the cost of security and also discourage people who do not have a genuine need to get to the gate.</font>

So a potential hijacker won't hijack because he can't cough up $5?

Based on experience last week Wigstheone is right: they are much much tougher on people with one-way tickets. Another joke: billionaire hijackers can't figure that out either?

Can't the airlines be trusted to get little old ladies out to the passenger pickup area? This is disappointing.

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"WhiteBird must fly, or she will die"