MilesBuzz! - What perks should a one class airline (YX, WN) offer?

I was thinking that the golden ring for most of us is upgrades. When we get em, we are happy. When we don't, we feel inferior to those who do.

It got me thinking. Those who fly Southwest and Midwest Express (entirely different products) don't ahve to worry about upgrades. And those flyers are often much less stressed than those who fly the larger carriers.

So here's the question.... What is the Golden Ring for these carriers? What SHOULD they be? Should there be threshold bonuses? Should an elite level allow for lower mile awards? Should YX elites have free access to the Best Care Club in MKE?

Upgrades as the major perk are getting to be a drag. It's more stressfull to acquire an upgrade then it is to endure a transcon on WN.

Thoughts?

They don't need ANY perks. They are doing well with wasting time or money on complicated so-called perks!

Southwest's Companion Pass is considered by some to be the best FF perk in the industry. And if you travel mostly short hops and get credits through the hotel and car rental partners, it can be earned more quickly than the lowest elite level at the majors.

They can still do upgrades - upgrades to the cockpit jumpseat.

And for top tier flyers they can offer upgrades to the pilot and co-pilot position.

d

Try the Southwest model for a transpacific flight.

Sit in a coach seat and ask not to have adjacent seats blocked.

Turn down the meal service, because you'll bring your own food.

Don't pre-board, just get on with the rest of the passengers.

It won't be a good experience.

A bad experience? I don't know, Bangor to Dublin would probably take about 5 1/2 hours or so. If I could do it for under $150, I would be thrilled to do so on WN.

As far as perks, I have never had to wait calling the WN reservations number on the back of the FF card. NEVER HAD TO WAIT, always answered on the first call. DL PM desk is good, but not as good as this. This is one of the best perks out there! And, yes, the companion pass is easy to get and great!

Yes, WN always answers their phone (the number on the back of the RR card) in one ring or so. Why can't the "majors" do that??

I have always marveled at the unhurried boarding process on Midwest Express. There is always going to be enough overhead bin space because of the low pax count.

As for Midwest Express and Southwest both, they are low stress in one way: you do not have to worry about getting an upgrade, not having gotten one, been promised one but didn't get it, waiting for one, etc.

In this one sense I think people are more satisfied with these airlines because they do not have to go through "upgrade stress syndrome."

I agree with Richard - part of the reason ME was my first choice of airlines is because everything and everyone is an upgraded. This year because of my travel schedule taking me to places I couldn't get to on YX and the challenge of seeing what all the fuss was getting status on another airline I will hit 1K with UA (next trip) and maintained plus status with YX also. But everytime I travel with a biz parter w/o status on UA and they sit in coach I feel bad - I prefer the YX solution of equality.

I don't know what YX could offer to increase my current level of satisfaction with them that would be incentive to fly more - something to think about.

I agree with the last 2 opinions - I used to fly CO and scrambled for upgrades but when I found out that Midwest flew non-stop instead of a connection like CO did to Reagan, I tried them and won't ever go back except to destinations Midwest doesn't serve. They may be more expensive, but I'm not chasing upgradeable fares, worrying about elites ahead of me on the waitlist, etc - and the seat room is terrific. Another thing - I don't miss that Pavlovian response I used to get when I got an upgrade - the airlines call it a 'reward' but it began to feel like more of a doggy biscuit I 'earned' by jumping through their hoops. But since I wasn't guaranteed my biscuit, I wasn't always a happy puppy.

But no stress now in that regards, which is good, since I need to reserve that for the 9/11 worries, A300 concerns, reclining seats, cancelled flights, etc - and I even have some left over for worrying whether I'm doing my part for this country by spending enough money on stuff I don't need!

Here's a wild and probably ignorant idea - why not gradually eliminate the frequent flyer program rewards as they are now, in the sense of honoring them until the miles are used up, then switching the programs to a price discount tier and still keep the upgrades. After all, a lot of elites get there by travelling on business. For a crude example, as soon as an elite level is reached, give some fixed percentage off all future purchases of tickets for that person as long as their elite level is current, something applicable to either business or personal travel. You could even offer the discounts based on class of travel. Say 5% for silvers coach, 10% for silvers business, 10% for gold coach, 15% for gold business, and 20% for platinum coach, 20-25% for platinum business.

These are just examples to make my point, but I think this whole frequent fliers miles concept has gone way overboard and rewards people for buying merchandise, flowers, phone service, you name it! And it leads to tons of rewards that cannot be claimed due to lack of reward seats held back by the airlines. Add the administrative costs in administering this program and it ain't cheap!

Yeah, I do those other things to get miles because the program exists, it's easy and you're nuts not to take advantage of it. But it doesn't mean it's the best system in light of the current troubles.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Plato90s:
Try the Southwest model for a transpacific flight...It won't be a good experience.
</font>

Of course it wouldn't be a good experience, the product isn't designed to work under those conditions. By the same token, you could take a Mercedes S class offroading, but it wouldn't do well, because it's not DESIGNED for that. Their formula works for the destinations they fly to. WN is a great airline, but there's no way in h-ll I'd fly 'em for more than a two hour flight.

By your logic, I could argue that the CX product wouldn't be a good experience. Try flying HOU-DAL on CX. It takes forever to board and for everyone to find their assigned seats. Most people never get served because the FAs are scrambling trying to get service done and don't have enough time.

Now on the original topic, I think Southwest already has it down. Can't beat free flights. Fly a few times, get a free ticket you can use whenever for whatever reason. Fly more, get more tickets. Fly a LOT and take your companion with you wherever for free as long as there's a seat open.

None. That's why they're a one class airline.

Of course, in Southwest's case, I'd say that if they want my business, they'll have to give me an assigned seat, but they'll never do that.

It's the difference between Walmart and Nordstrom. Southwest is Walmart, and the rest of the majors are like Nordstrom.

Au contraire.

I think the better perceptual map is:

Walmart = Southwest (everyday low price, relentless lowering of costs)
Jetblue = Target (low price but with style and attitude, not perfect analogy due to size disparity w/Walmart)
Airtran = Kmart (after a swoon, perking up a bit)
Other discounters (Vanguard/etc) =Ames/ShopKo/etc (shaky, relatively speaking)
Big 5 airlines = regular department stores (Federated/May/Dillards) (every day a sale, poor sales help)
Midwest Express = Nordstrom (higher priced, higher service, not price leader, treat everyone well)

Any comments?

Sometimes you just need to take a quick trip to Wal-Mart (although no Wright Amendment at Wal-Mart).

Occasionally you treat yourself to Nordstrom's (or Needless Markup).

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jamiel:
Au contraire.

I think the better perceptual map is:

Walmart = Southwest (everyday low price, relentless lowering of costs)
Jetblue = Target (low price but with style and attitude, not perfect analogy due to size disparity w/Walmart)
Airtran = Kmart (after a swoon, perking up a bit)
Other discounters (Vanguard/etc) =Ames/ShopKo/etc (shaky, relatively speaking)
Big 5 airlines = regular department stores (Federated/May/Dillards) (every day a sale, poor sales help)
Midwest Express = Nordstrom (higher priced, higher service, not price leader, treat everyone well)

Any comments?</font>

BTW, I've NEVER found YX to have higher fares on competative routes. In fact, they have always fared lower on transcon routes without a sat night stay.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by aamilesslave:
Sometimes you just need to take a quick trip to Wal-Mart (although no Wright Amendment at Wal-Mart).

Occasionally you treat yourself to Nordstrom's (or Needless Markup).</font>

Wanna know something funny? I may be the last American who has never set foot in a Walmart. Nor do I plan to, since the money I might save would be more than consumed by the trip out to the store!

On the other hand, I do spend a lot of time at department stores when I need to buy clothes and things like that.

I'm not a big fan of WN, but I would rather fly WN than shop at Wal-Mart (I've done both). Wal-Mart sells crappy products and has trashy customers. One time I saw a knock-off Disney video tape at a Wal-Mart. They have purchased counterfeit clothing (e.g., fake Tommy T-shirts) that made the news. They run the competition out of town and then close the store when the competition folds (small towns, K-Mart's Pace vs. Sam's, etc.) WN doesn't pull that kind of ****.

tony - take a trip down to Laurel here! Great Wal-Mart!!!

The best thing that WN can/could do for FFs is what they did for the first few years from startup: very nice young ladies in hot pants and white vinyl boots passing out "love bites" each flight. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

OK - I know that is definitely not PC, but I still have a memory of their inaugural flight from DAL to HOU as I was on it. Virile young male at the time with eyeballs dragging on the ground. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Leaving for the bunker, expect incoming any moment now. . . . . .

dAAvid -

This is completely off topic, but:

Sorry, I have been lurking on this site for a while but for the first time feel compelled to respond to a statement. Let me begin this response by saying that I am not a bitter F/A, perhaps just more aware of the world around me and, especially, my profession. And let me also say that I am the first to have a good time and laugh at what others may percieve as "non-PC" jokes or comments.

I am all for "perks" to lure travellers to airlines, especially in light of the current environment. However, I take offense to your comments, AA SLF. With all due respect, I know that you are being witty and light. But the in-flight service community of the airlines has lost 42 co-workers in the last 2 months, 32 of whom were Flight Attendants. I'm not sure the families and loved ones of those who died (and those who serve today, on every airline) really care about whether or not their lost ones were wearing hot pants and go-go boots when they met their tragic end. Are we now to go back to the era of when skin and sex appeal sold seats? It is my opinion that we all have learned there is a lot more to life (including our past sense of invincibility) than what I or my co-workers wear on the airplane in what has now become an increasingly dangerous job.

As I said, I am not bitter or angry, just very sad. I hope that the airline industry and the country as a whole can get back to pre-9/11. If you step on my airplane, I can promise to provide the best possible service with the items provided. And I hope that my personality and service (not whether or not I'm wearing hot pants) will keep you coming back. I'm sure that my counterparts from other airlines feel the same way.

Peace and safe flying to everyone!

[This message has been edited by IntheAAisle (edited 11-15-2001).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by zrs70:
...So here's the question.... What is the Golden Ring for these carriers? What SHOULD they be? Should there be threshold bonuses? Should an elite level allow for lower mile awards? Should YX elites have free access to the Best Care Club in MKE?

Upgrades as the major perk are getting to be a drag. It's more stressfull to acquire an upgrade then it is to endure a transcon on WN.

Thoughts?</font>

For me (a previous WN Companion Pass holder), WN would have kept my business if I could only have pre-boarded. Since most of my domestic flying was for business on short hops up and down the left coast, I never had the opportunity to bring a companion along and take advantage of the Companion Pass. In fact, I don't think I ever used it? I would often arrive at the gate (granted, pre-9/11) about 15 minutes before boarding. On WN, this would translate into a group #'s 91+ boarding pass, no overhead space to fit my luggage and sitting in a middle seat in the last row in the back. On AA, with EXP status, I didn't have to worry about arriving 15 minutes before boarding as I know I will always be able to pre-board and I have an assigned seat.

But I had to admit, earning a free ticket after only 4 flights (double flight credits for booking on the internet) was a great perk!

IntheAAisle -

Welcome to FlyerTalk. Company personnel are especially welcome on the boards as y'all bring a very welcome "different" view of what we Pax go through as we fly. We Pax learn a lot from company personnel that participate.

I want to warn you that AA personnel have gotten in trouble with AA management for participating on FT. So, please be careful not to reveal any information that could be used to "identify" you by other AA personnel. The folks in the black helicopters are very sharp!

Now that you have made your first post, I want to "welcome" you to come on over to the AA forum and help us loyal AA Pax to better appreciate y'all.

Now to answer your post: I lost a good friend on UA-93 on 9-11-01 as well as seven others from my Company at the WTC. I am NOT the kind of person who does not have sympathy for those who gave their lives, everywhere! As a loyal AA Pax who flies over 100k air miles each year, I share the risk with you that I too will encounter a bad event, as they say today. In fact I flew on 9-16 (Sunday) to ORD, within 24 hours of resumption of flights.

Slam me for being a male chauvinist, but please do not wrap yourself in the cloak of those horrible events of 9-11-01 as it will not help improve your life going forward, methinks.

My comment witty? I agree with you,probably not, more like the "wise_ss" kid in school. Apology, no. What I wrote about is a memory that I do still enjoy, PC or not.

I appreciate that you will express a personality when you fly, and that you will offer great service to your Pax. If I am on one of your flights you will find an SOS, or multiples, coming your way as a sign of my appreciation of how good you do your job. Whatever happens in the future in your career, please don't stop the personality and good service part as it will serve you well everywhere.

Can I expect to see you more often over on the AA forum? In any case, again Welcome to FT.

dAAvid -

AA SLF-

Thank you for your welcome to this forum. Don't worry! I won't be posting any secrets about myself or my company. Believe me, I have been around long enough to know that sometimes there is no sense of humor, if you get my drift.

Am I looking for an apology from you? No. I was just hoping to point out a few thoughts and wanting others to stop and think for a few minutes. Pre-9/11 I would have been the first to love wearing hot-pants and go-go boots. (I've been around quite a while, just not long enough for that era.) I appreciate the fact that you still remember that uniform with fondness, just saying that in the scheme of things it seems insignificant.

I do not wrap myself in the events of 9/11. If I did I would have quit by now. I just try to remember and honor my fallen co-workers, and those who died with them, everyday.

I know that you are facing the same dangers as the rest of us and I commend you for continuing with your travels. I will be glad to have you on my aircraft anytime and look forward to providing you with blue-polyester clad service!

Maybe I will see you on the AA forum sometime!

Peace and safe flying!

The big perks that WN offers that the others can't come close to:

1. Companion Pass (saved me several thousand $$$ last year), with credits from ALL sources counting toward status
2. All award tickets are unrestricted to capacity controls
3. Buy 4 - get one free!
4. No $50/$75/$100/? change fee
5. No full-fare ticket on WN should ever cost you more than $250 RT (if you can't figure out the math behind this one, email me)