bmi diamond club - bmi limiting Star Alliance redemptions

I'm trying to get to EZE just before Christmas this year. It's not easy to find award availability, but I have managed to find a few things that worked (using the ANA and Air Canada Star Alliance award checkers). I phoned diamond club this evening to check if I could book any of them.

I'm trying to avoid VARIG for long distances, so many of my options were LHR-LIS-GRU/GIG on TAP and then a connecting flight on VARIG/Lufthansa.

None of the LIS-GRU or LIS-GIG flights were appearing for award redemption. For those of you that have been following the thread on SIN-KUL award availability (where I mentioned my SIN-DEL experience) will know what I'm talking about here. The flights simply are 'not available for award redemption', despite apparent Star Alliance award availability.

This is not a 'home programme' preference, since the two checkers I've used (AC/NH) are nothing to do with TP.

I pressed the agent on exactly what was going on, and he went through to the 'help desk'. After a bit of discussion, I was finally told that bmi had decided not to make these routes available for award redemption. This was a surprise to the agent, who said that he thought all Star Alliance operated routes should be available.

If this is true it's pathetic! Award seats are hard enough to come by without additional restrictions like this being placed on them. Is this even permitted by Star Alliance rules? I'm absolutely fuming, as I've spent a fair period of my time looking for workable itineraries (which bmi won't do, rather fobbing you off instantly with 'nothing available' if there isn't a direct flight or a trivial connection).

If this does turn out to be true, it's "Bye Bye, bmi".

I'm going to write a $hitty letter to bmi customer services tomorrow to get to the bottom of this.

Thanks Nick for discovering this... I too will write a letter to complain given my recent experience as well...

It is very poor...

:eek: I really hope that agent was mistaken. What a way to devalue DC! :eek:

With all due respect, I find that the majority of DC agents make things up as they go when given a difficult or out of ordinary question. My strategy is to simply call again until I get someone who is on the ball, of which thankfully there are a good few. Last redemption to SYD in F had 3 calls (first two where I was told in no uncertain terms that there was nothing (despite seeing from AC website there was) and third call got exactly the flights I could see and wanted).

Would be great if BMI introduced *A redemption availability online like AC and ANA.

Caledonian

With all due respect, I find that the majority of DC agents make things up as they go when given a difficult or out of ordinary question.
I'm going to call again tomorrow and ask to speak to a supervisor or someone in management.

However, I don't think this is simply an agent training problem. I've spoken to at least four different agents about these 'problem segments', and they've all been completely adamant that there is simply no way to book a flight for miles redemption because the relevant flights do not appear in their systems.

This includes agents who have had no problems with managing itineraries like LAX-UA-JFK(-)LGA-US-BOS-LH-FRA-LH-LHR (with a stopover in JFK) on one ticket.

For my SIN-KUL segment, I spoke to four different agents over three days and they all said it was not possible on SQ... I even got one of them to call SQ and SQ confirmed awards seats available, but DC agent could not book them...

For my SIN-KUL segment, I spoke to four different agents over three days and they all said it was not possible on SQ... I even got one of them to call SQ and SQ confirmed awards seats available, but DC agent could not book them...


SQ availability does not equal *A availability. I have had the same issue with AC saying no space when SQ had space for their PPS members. This is not unique to Bmi.

Could all this just be another bmi computer problem? You know the kind of one that when you log into your account on a saturday morning you see the number of miles you had 6 months ago.

I don't beleive for a second that bmi are purposly withholding certain routes from redemptions when they are available to other *A airlines.

something is a miss but I tend to agree with Caledonian that either you were sinply fobbed off or there is some sort of error. Last time I rang asking for Hong Kong the nice lady was serching for flights with the airport code NRT - no wonder she insisted the flight I was looking for didn't exist :rolleyes:

SQ availability does not equal *A availability. I have had the same issue with AC saying no space when SQ had space for their PPS members. This is not unique to Bmi.Your remarks are true.

However, the point BAorbmi? is making though, is that there is reward availability not just for SQ Kris Flyers but also for AC Aeroplan flyers. BMI Diamond Club members on the otherhand don't have availability.

Aeroplan is showing availability for SQ on this route in both Y and C (???) on several flights on Mar 21/22.... Very odd....http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=525541&page=2

Just for completeness, the ANA tool was showing availability

Seems like a pretty minor complaint. Weigh the downside against the upside (generous class of service bonus, low *Gold qualification threshold, cash + miles). No better frequent flier program out there today.

Seems like a pretty minor complaint.
You've got to be kidding. If I wanted a programme where I couldn't spend my miles, I'd join CO NonePass.

You've got to be kidding. If I wanted a programme where I couldn't spend my miles, I'd join CO NonePass.

but this is common. you cant fly all routes with UA miles to europe from asia too.

and there are other restrictions for LH etc.

i had this problems many many times...

dp

Seems like a pretty minor complaint. Weigh the downside against the upside (generous class of service bonus, low *Gold qualification threshold, cash + miles). No better frequent flier program out there today.

Is it possible that the cash & miles deal is the root of the problem? Although it's great for people in the BMI scheme, it does appear to offer an unfair advantage when looking for redemption seats...

Or perhaps it's direct retaliation at BMI for offering such pathetic award availability on many of their best routes, esp. in premium cabins???

I just wonder whether carriers are discriminating against BMI on this basis or alternatively does anyone know how the inter-FFP settlement works when "paying" for flights on other carriers. i.e. although it costs you 50,000 miles from X-Y, does it cost the FFP 50,000 or is this priced differently???

Keen to know as i'm considering shifting the bulk of my *A collecting into BMI, but don't want to get caught out...

Well, I saw this thread and thought that this could be one of those "last straw" moments. It's true that there could be reasons other than bmi restricting award redemption (we already know from many different sources that *Net has the capability to provide variable availability to different partners, so it's just as possible that, say, SQ, has decided that SIN-KUL is ok for NH, but not on for BD) but all of the possible explanations stink, IMHO:

If BD is restricting availability, then it means it's suffering from a huge net imbalance between it's partner redemptions, and it is trying to "economise". I can see this as a possibility, after all, if you had the choice to redeem, say, SQ KF miles for a trip in BD "enhanced" no service model, or use them to fly indirect on LH in "normal" Y or C, which would you choose? And, likewise, we all know that, paradoxically, it's impossible to get award seats with BD miles on most BD longhauls (I needed to go to LAS last year, and ended up going indirect via ORD, even though the LAS flight was "on" on the day I wanted - no award availability in J) so we get forced to use our miles on other *A carriers, even when BD fly the route. Unless there is a huge influx of other *A award bookings on BD longhauls, I can see how the books would fail to balance!

If it isn't BD's fault, and its the other *A partners (and I, like others on the board, have recently tried to get availability in F or Y on the SIN-KUL, only to be told that it's zeroed out for the forseeable) then it means that the rest of the alliance either think that BD is bleeding them white for awards, or they think that BD is unable to keep up with the settlements. Neither is attractive! Why did SQ pull it's codeshares with BD?

Of course, situations like these can be dangerously self-fulfilling, I've got the thick-end of 500K miles with BD, and I see that as a significant investment - I'd be upset to loose them! The temptation to start booking awards (preferably whilst they still come out as paper tickets!) is strong, and I suddenly find myself getting that Jimmy Stewart "It's a wonderful life" flashback, with some old, wizened, BD exec (SMB perhaps?) standing up and telling a mob of clamouring FF-ers that "You can't have your miles, y'see they're in Jenny's account, and Alisdairs account, and Nigels account" - after all, the terminal cynic in me knows that FF schemes, like banks, are just legalized pyramid schemes, with very limited tangible "Funds" should everyone come knocking on the same day.

The bottom line is that if this is happening (and it appears that enough of us have checked eith other *A carriers to be reasonably certain that it is) then DC had better come up with a good explanation and quick! If this is BD policy, then it needs to be rescinded, if it is *A retaliation, then BD needs to sort out their differences with them, before it's too late, and we loose what little confidence we have left.

Someone at BD needs to understand this:

"These are not free flights, we've paid for them with our previous loyalty, and the capital you spend if you deny them to us is our future loyalty, and, Nigel that's your future too, unless you want to gamble on the loyalty of the Ryanair demographic"

Scary stuff IMHO.

Willard the Bear (http://www.willardbear.com/) - hoping he's going to get his next Award trip!

Great post!

I fully agree. And it would be nice to have some answers to that topic...

Great post!

I fully agree. And it would be nice to have some answers to that topic...

Fully agree, an explanation from BMI regarding this situation which clarifies their position would be much appreciated!!

Very well expressed KenF. ^

Talk about bank runs, there could be a whole knew meaning to the term "mileage run", if this becomes anything close to a self-fulfilling prophecy! :eek: :eek:

UPDATE:

On my fifth call to DC to finalise my alternative flights, I asked the agent to check again on the SQ situation. His initial response was the same as all the previous agents, but I explained that SQ, Aeroplan and ANA were showing availability and he perservered...

So, eventually he found the SQ flights that I wanted by "bypassing the system" with "bypass codes". He explained that the flights had not been released into the system, but could not say whether it was SQ withholding or bmi Revenue Management blocking them. But either way, he booked my flights and said it was a legitimate booking...

It's not all over yet as he initially charged my CC for the TG flights and we have to wait for the taxes to load now for the SQ flights... but fingers crossed...

Anyway, I told him that I may pass his name on to others who have been experiencing problems, but to be fair, I would not want to post on here. So, you can contact me directly if you want to speak to this very helpful guy.

Overall, it has been a very frustrating experience considering I booked exactly the same itinery last year...

So I assume that means he's requested the seats for you, but it's up to some greater power to decide if the seats will actually be released?

UPDATE:

So, eventually he found the SQ flights that I wanted by "bypassing the system" with "bypass codes"...

This sounds like a similar situation that i had where they couldnt see the flights, but after pushing for it they 'found' them... Still doesnt explain why bd/sq would withhold certain flights though.

So I assume that means he's requested the seats for you, but it's up to some greater power to decide if the seats will actually be released?


No, by the sounds of it he did book them... Did the OP get a confirmation code? Look it up on checkmytrip.com to see if it says confirmed... If they have done this, then they have to send it off to get the taxes loaded (usually 24hrs) but that doesnt affect the possibility of cancellation... If they're showing as confirmed in checkmytrip all should be sweet.

You should count yourself lucky :p - lucky that you've got it sorted before they move to India! :( :mad:

Indeed they are confirmed on checkmytrip! :)

But still waiting for the call to confirm taxes

This sounds like a similar situation that i had where they couldnt see the flights, but after pushing for it they 'found' them... Still doesnt explain why bd/sq would withhold certain flights though.

I have had the same thing happen. When an agent can't find a flight and refuses to listen to what I have to say (aka ANA availability), I hang up and get an agent who will listen. That is a reality with any program though... UA, AC, LH

Indeed they are confirmed on checkmytrip! :)

But still waiting for the call to confirm taxes


I would call them back... Its very unlikey that they'll call you. The taxes can be loaded within a few hours, however they normally tell you to wait 24hrs before calling back just to make sure its done.

No, by the sounds of it he did book them... Did the OP get a confirmation code? Look it up on checkmytrip.com to see if it says confirmed... If they have done this, then they have to send it off to get the taxes loaded (usually 24hrs) but that doesnt affect the possibility of cancellation... If they're showing as confirmed in checkmytrip all should be sweet.

So that suggests it's BD (or BD software) blocking the allocation rather than SQ...

Curious...

I'm not sure this is anything new.

I started a thread a while ago asking if BD*Gs got additional award inventory. The consensus was officially no, but that several people here had had the "well, as you're gold, let me just try something" treatment and, with the right agent, as if by magic, additional inventory appeared.

I wonder if it's not just an internal directive to get agents to push the cheaper carriers, and hold back the dearer ones, unless really pushed for it. I know, for example, for my MXP-BKK-HKG routing, it wasn't until I started quoting flight numbers and fare buckets on Amadeus that they said "ah, yes, it's wide open for award seats in business!"

I have my fingers crossed that this is the case, anyway. I may have a bunch of *A travel coming up, and it most certainly won't be going into BD if my only redemption possibilities are going to be EDI-SYY and ABZ-GRQ.

With all due respect, I find that the majority of DC agents make things up as they go when given a difficult or out of ordinary question. My strategy is to simply call again until I get someone who is on the ball, of which thankfully there are a good few. Last redemption to SYD in F had 3 calls (first two where I was told in no uncertain terms that there was nothing (despite seeing from AC website there was) and third call got exactly the flights I could see and wanted).

Would be great if BMI introduced *A redemption availability online like AC and ANA.

Caledonian

Hi Caledonian I have had the same experiences and usually call a few times to get what I want..but what do you mean by "despite seeing from the AC website that there was"?? Is there a way you can see award seat availability online????? :p

Yes, sign up for ANA or Aeroplan. Both are easy to join online and you have access to the star alliance award availability...

I know what is being said about calling several times, but on this occassion, I did feel something was not quite right. SIN-KUL is such a bread and butter route for SQ (they have so many flights a day) that this felt like such a chore to get a simple booking done. For the record, I have never ever had problems with this route before... I am normally given a choice of 3 departures...

It's like LH saying they don't have any seats on LHR-FRA... impossible...

Hi Caledonian I have had the same experiences and usually call a few times to get what I want..but what do you mean by "despite seeing from the AC website that there was"?? Is there a way you can see award seat availability online????? :p


Hi Colin. AC = Air Canada. AC's frequent flyer programme is called Aeroplan which you can sign up for online in real time, with no joining charge etc at www.aeroplan.com. Once signed up, members can check star alliance award availability (except on routes that AC serves itself - it seems to only offer a view of AC redemption availability then).

Caledonian

It's like LH saying they don't have any seats on LHR-FRA... impossible...
Actually I was recently forced to book LCY-FRA as there were no seats on LHR-FRA on any of the 10 daily flights!

I have to say that if only Joanna were still here... this issue may have been resolved before it even started!

Has anyone put this in writing to DC?

:mad:

I can see flights on ANA and AP for NRT-PEK on both NH direct and on OZ connecting through ICN. DC says no availability. Called back twice, sorry we can't see it. He didn't like it when I suggested he look at the bottom of the screen and see what I can see...

When I asked for a supervisor he cut me off. :mad:

What horrid customer service. :mad: :mad:

:mad:

I can see flights on ANA and AP for NRT-PEK on both NH direct and on OZ connecting through ICN. DC says no availability. Called back twice, sorry we can't see it. He didn't like it when I suggested he look at the bottom of the screen and see what I can see...

When I asked for a supervisor he cut me off. :mad:

What horrid customer service. :mad: :mad:

Please tell me this is some sort of short term glitch and not the way forward. Many people have jumped ship from DC due to all the changes of late but I've never even seriously considered it mainly due to the excellent value and ease of getting the award flight I want (with a little fexibility). If what I am reading on this thread persists (and I'll know in a couple of weeks when I'm ready for my next award booking) then this really will be the it for me. What good are miles if one can't spend them?

Before we jump to conclusions.. has it ever been verified that what we see via ANA and Aeroplan is true for BMI redemptions? :confused:

Before we jump to conclusions.. has it ever been verified that what we see via ANA and Aeroplan is true for BMI redemptions? :confused:
Julie has had a look into this for me: I've given her details of the flight that was causing me problems.

Watch this space.

I spoke to Dave on my final call. The one referred to as having great customer service. True to form he did provide that level of service.

Unfortunately the *A system is down - they can't even see flights operating by another carrier, let alone find an award seat on those flights. He even got a bypass code to look but it had no effect... that is when he discovered the system was down.

Oh well, I will try again tomorrow.

lets explain the following:
If there are routes like BKK-JKT on LH or I think it is RIO-EZE on LH ( where LH has no traffic rights to sell this part alone ) you will never find any seat in the award availability.
SIN-KUL is a SQ/MH shutle service, also there you hardly find award seats.
What is defenetly not true, is that the *aliance carriers have different availability ! If a flight shows availability in let´s say " I " class on LH, it is available for all FF-programs! even for travelagents, which can book it in AMADEUS ( but the airlines normaly not allow a TA to make an award booking ).
If an BMI agent say the seat is not available, where you found availability bevore, there may be the following:
1.) The seat is gone in the time.
2.) You checked for 1 seat, but need more and it´s only 1 available.
3.) The system BMI is working with is down ( normaly AMADEUS )
4.) The agent you are calling is not " up to date " how to create an award booking on that desired airline ! ( because that´s not the same procedere with any airline, ( some one can only book in longsell format, others show AN availability, and others have a special request for these bookingclasses.))

If you know how it works, you can try to discuss with the agent, and explain him how to do/book. If he/she is not willing to do, or you not know how to instruct him, don`t discuss, hang up and dial again after 1 minute.
In my short BMI booking time I had this 2 times, both times it was a female-agent and I tried to explain here what to do, but she only said :" she were doing this job for more than 2 years now, and she need no instructions from me ". I said thank you phoned 1 minute later and both times I got exactly what i want.
A 3. time I had a similar request, but this time a male agent, he was very frindly and told me nice to speake with an exTA, and he learned some news, which he not knew bevore.
Let´s hope that this situation will not become more bad after they change to INDIA.

I'm keeping my eyes on this. I was considering using BMI's program and flying BMI when before I would never have considered them. (BMI's honoring a certain "deal" had put them in my good books and pushed me to finally consider using them for flights.) If BMI is trying to be like Continental and their NonePass program, I will have to seriously reconsider.

The *A booking system is apparently still down. :rolleyes: It was also not possible to use the bypass system as that is down as well.

Gotta love these computer upgrades. Best advice from the agent was to try again in a few days. Sigh!

FIX YOUR BLOODY COMPUTER SYSTEM DAMNIT!

I'm not sure this is anything new.

I started a thread a while ago asking if BD*Gs got additional award inventory. The consensus was officially no, but that several people here had had the "well, as you're gold, let me just try something" treatment and, with the right agent, as if by magic, additional inventory appeared.

I wonder if it's not just an internal directive to get agents to push the cheaper carriers, and hold back the dearer ones, unless really pushed for it. I know, for example, for my MXP-BKK-HKG routing, it wasn't until I started quoting flight numbers and fare buckets on Amadeus that they said "ah, yes, it's wide open for award seats in business!"

I have my fingers crossed that this is the case, anyway. I may have a bunch of *A travel coming up, and it most certainly won't be going into BD if my only redemption possibilities are going to be EDI-SYY and ABZ-GRQ.

And it seems your trick for getting cheap awards to Asia(do you see what I mean...)is going to disappear with such a policy! DC staff has just to say:"Sorry.Management restrictions on this route". :td:

both times it was a female-agent and I tried to explain here what to do, but she only said :" she were doing this job for more than 2 years now, and she need no instructions from me ". I said thank you phoned 1 minute later and both times I got exactly what i want.
A 3. time I had a similar request, but this time a male agent, he was very frindly and told me nice to speake with an exTA, and he learned some news, which he not knew bevore.
Let´s hope that this situation will not become more bad after they change to INDIA.

I totally agree with you. Same treatment for me.