MilesBuzz! - AA 767 just hit ground in Queens, NY

CNN report

It appears to be heading or leaving from JFK.

It was an AA plane.

[This message has been edited by DOC 2 BE (edited 11-12-2001).]

CBS, Fox, AP and other news services have confirmed the report of an AA 767 crash in Queens (likely on approach or departure from JFK).

Sh*t. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

More than four buildings on fire - moving to Omni.

[This message has been edited by msn (edited 11-12-2001).]

I'm going to chat, if anyone else wants to join me.

News reports that plane was in route to a New York airport. Also hearing reports that all NYC airports have been closed

Passenger jet crashes in New York

An American Airlines plane has crashed in the Queens borough of New York City.

Up to 285 passengers were reported to be on board the Boeing 767.

The plane was apparently heading into New York when it crashed at 9.15am local time.

Buildings can be seen to be on fire and smoke is billowing above the city.

It is not yet known if the crash was a terrorist incident.

New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani is heading to the scene of the crash and a command centre has been set up nearby.

The incident comes two months and one day after the World Trade Center was destroyed by two hijacked planes.

More to follow...


This Is London (http://www.thisislondon.com/dynamic/news/top_story.html?in_review_id=473433&in_review_text_id=428205)

CNN now reports this was an A300, AA587 flight to Santa Domingo, DR, not an arriving 767 flight.

Market Reaction: Investors moving out of several sectors in reaction to news of plane crash. E-travel stocks and airlines being impacted the most at this point. E-travel: TVLY (-19%), EXPE (-8%), PCLN (-6%), USAI (-6%); Airlines: DAL (-9%), MESA (-9%), NWAC (-8%), AWA (-8%), CAL (-8%). Also seeing weakness in cruise line stocks: RCL (-10%), CCL (-7%).

All NYC airports and EWR are CLOSED.

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Who is John Galt?
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CNN confirms it was an airbus headed from JFK to Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic.

AA 587 an Airbus 300 according to CNN (outbound)

According to Sky News (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/011112/140/cf9pn.html), all airports in America have been closed.



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UPDATES:

It was AA 587 outbound to Santo Domingo (Dominican Republic) aircraft was an Airbus A300.

Conflicting reports on PPrune suggest AA677 is the flight number.



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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MatthewClement:
Conflicting reports on PPrune (http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=016580) suggest AA677 is the flight number.

</font>

FAA reporting (according to CNBC) that the American Airlines plane was actually taking off, and was in route from JFK to Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MatthewClement:
</font>

No, AA 677 arrived safely in SJU about 5 mins ago

AA0677/12NOV
JFK 600A 9 42
SJU A 8 1040A
3JFK/ETD0630 SVCG *0516
4JFK/OUT0616 OFF0628 *0528
2SJU/IN1055 *0857

However, AA 587 has slightly worse info

&gt;@AA@2587
FLIFO DISPLAY AND UPDATES INHIBITED.

[This message has been edited by B747-437B (edited 11-12-2001).]

AA587 FLIFO was revised a few minutes ago from a scheduled delay to "Contact Airline."

This is the last thing NY needs now. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

My prayers are with them.

246 pax + 9 crew

reports of explosion of left engine just before crash. Let's pray for "just" an accident...!

since the flifo has been restricted, we can't really see the info, but AA587 is listed in res for tomorrow as sked to depart at 8:00a. if it was supposed to depart at the same time today, it departed more than an hour late. anyone know why?

Airtraffic over NYC area: NYC totally blocked, all aircraft returning or deverted to other airports. No more aircraft in area.

Report now more getting clear: fire on left engine before crash.

Giuliani speakes of and hopes for isolated incident

[This message has been edited by ralfkrippner (edited 11-12-2001).]

fire on one of the sites (where engine came down) already under control

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by duxfan:
since the flifo has been restricted, we can't really see the info, but AA587 is listed in res for tomorrow as sked to depart at 8:00a. if it was supposed to depart at the same time today, it departed more than an hour late. anyone know why?</font>

It takes about an hour to take off from JFK in the morning.

Update from Lower Manhattan:

City is in virtual lockdown, with bridges and tunnels closed - I think it is as much precautionary (in case of terrorism) as it is to allow free passage of emergency vehicles.

Staten Island Ferry still running, as are the subways, although clearly not to southeastern Queens.

Police boats are visible patrolling NY Harbor. Helicopter traffic is heavy, but no planes, outside of the occasional fighter jet.

Plumes of smoke are visible from here...heavy, but not of the absolutely frightening magnitude of 11 September.

For those not familiar with the geography, the area of the crash is at most a couple of miles from JFK - whatever happened happened very quickly after take-off. It seems that would make a Sept 11-type scenario unlikely. We'll see what develops out of the falling engine theory.

I was just listening to Channel 2 (WCBS) and one of the reporters who is also a pilot agreed with what I was thinking -- engine failure. There is a significant amount of birds in that area (esp. Canadian geece, if I am not mistaken). Put one, two or a flock though an engine, I would think the engine would fail.

--Jim

Anyone have any info about the type of engine used on the Airbus 300. History of failures? They just showed on CNN a picture of the left engine on the ground in Rockaway - it sheered off before the crash.

That's right. Something goes wrong down there, just blame Canada!

Websites:
AA has a short information and suspended their normal start-page.

Delta Airlines at the moment is the only other airline with some information on their website. Nothing on all other websites.

JFK reopens for arrivals.

Empire State Building evacuated for precaution.

Correction -- plane involved appears to be N18066

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[This message has been edited by MatthewClement (edited 11-12-2001).]

CNN just reported that the FBI believes that there was an explosion on board.

From the LATimes.com (national section)

International flights headed to New York were diverted to Boston, Cincinnati and Washington's Dulles airport, Delta Air Lines said.

AA website now with more information:

AMERICAN AIRLINES STATEMENT REGARDING FLT. 587

Flight 587, an American Airlines Airbus A300 aircraft en route from New York Kennedy to Santo Domingo, crashed today near Kennedy airport. The preliminary passenger list indicates the aircraft carried 246 passengers and a crew of nine. American Airlines will not speculate as to possible causes of the accident. At this point, no additional details can be confirmed.

Family members wishing to receive information about passengers may contact American Airlines at the following toll-free number: (800) 245-0999.

American Airlines officials are in direct contact with officials of the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, and American is cooperating fully with federal, state and local authorities.

abc news is report that AA has lowered the pax count by one. does anyone else find it disturbing that AA has had to revise the passenger count on an international flight? if it was revised down by one, what do you think the odds are that the bags were not pulled?

Speculation like that at this point is very premature.

i agree, but the fact that AA apparently did not know how many people were on the airplane is disturbing.

Yes, I agree.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by duxfan:
i agree, but the fact that AA apparently did not know how many people were on the airplane is disturbing. </font>

I don't know...probably somebody out of HQ in Dallas didn't have the latest info from JFK before s/he gave a statement. If they start revising the total tomorrow, then I'll be worried.

On the bird theory, JFK has long been plagued with geese and gulls - just a fact of life at its location near the south coast of Long Island.

Latest report from CNN is that the flight was in the air for only about 3 minutes.

Based on that N number quoted by Matthew the registration data for the plane can be found at: http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=18066&cmndfind.x=10&cmndfind.y=12

That number (N18066) is and Airbus A300B4-605R manufactured in 1989 with engines from GE model series number CF6-80.

Apparently the aircraft is registered to the General Electric Company. Full details on the webpage referenced above.



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A300 powered by CF6-80C2

Regarding birds, why don't jet engines come with mesh screens on the front so that a bird can't be pulled in?

Would there be no way to keep it from getting clogged?

I don't think birds would be a problem.
Don't the engine manufacturers test the engines by throwing dead birds of varying sizes into them? I have seen these tests on several documentaries. The engines must be able to ingest a bird and continue functioning normally. I am sure if it was many birds, it could be a problem, but not just one or two.

DOES ANYONE HAVE THE STREETS THAT WERE AFFECTED??!!

My best friend's parents live on Beach 93rd in Rockaway. I've seen them show Beach 131st street on the news, however we cannot find out how many blocks were affected. It looks like some pieces of the jet hit different areas. Obviously we can't reach their phone line right now. Any local NYC help is appreciated.

location news... I just heard a television reporter (sorry, I have been surfing, don't know the network) say he was at 127th, and crash site was three blocks away at 130th. Also, heard that in total, about 13 blocks are affected. Don't know how reliable any news is this early....

Very very sad... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif My sympathies to the friends and families of all those affected.

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Gaucho100K

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by TravelManKen:
DOES ANYONE HAVE THE STREETS THAT WERE AFFECTED??!!

</font>

According to the NY Times, an engine landed at 129th & Beach, and the rest of the plane crashed at 133rd & Beach. Approximately 12 bulding at those 2 locations are "involved" in some way or another. ("Involved" would not necessarily mean destroyed.)

Someone asked about the delay on departure. Here is what FLIFO had prior to it being blocked:

&gt;@AA@2AA587
AA0587/12NOV
JFK 800A 8 22
SDQ A5 1248P
3JFK/ETD0840 BRDG *0655
4JFK/OUT0838 OFF0914 ATC *0814
2SDQ/ETA1337 ATC *0814

FBI Sees No Signs That Crash Was Terror Attack

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011112/pl/crash_newyork_fbi_dc_2.html

According to CEO Don Carty, the aircraft tail number is N14053. Here is the latest photo of the aircraft at Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=150136). If I heard it right, the airplane went through an "A Check" just yesterday. The #1 engine had 694 hours before it's last overhaul. The #2 engine had 9788 hours before it's last overhaul. This is all what I heard coming from CEO Don Carty.

Erik.

From CNN.com:

"National Transportation Safety Board Chairwoman Marion Blakey said investigators had found the plane's flight data recorder"

It looks like only a couple of blocks from 129th to 131st were affected.

Thank God that it is a holiday and that the schools were closed since some of the fuselage crashed into a school. Also, the Rockaways were terribly hard hit by 11 Sept. and now this http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

The smoke, which I could see from my office, was terrible. I was working, along with a couple of other people, on a holiday. We all, despite no evident risk. Decided to leave the skyscraper I work in and I am working from home today.

My thoughts and prayers are with the people on the plane and in the neighbourhood.

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I Love New York

Is the area of the crash called Bal Harbour?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by flaco:
Is the area of the crash called Bal Harbour?</font>

Belle Harbor is the name of the immediate neighborhood, Rockaway Beach the name of the larger area.

Giuliani: "I don't believe there are any survivors" At least 16 people injured on the ground in Queens Colin Powell to U.N.: "My reports suggest that it was an accident"

http://www.cnn.com/

Mu condolences to everyone on this tragedy.

bean....

Bird airstrikes...especially multiple ones, could have the unfortunate result...or catastrophic compressor failure and turbine blades flying thru hydraulic lines. Who knows.....it's a sad event regardless.

AA anounced that there were 5 lap infants on board.