MilesBuzz! - Something different, another security screw up at Jet Blue at JFK

It's getting so that we need a topic just to keep track of all these.

At Jet Blue at JFK this afternoon the terminal was evacuated, people removed from planes, the terminal searched, and all passengers rescreened because an FAA official observed the security screeners were not following the rules. They failed to use the hand wands on random passengers.

You would think that at some point the airlines will say enough is enough and get this straight. No weapons were involved here, but every day another screw up erodes the confidence of the people afraid of flying, not to mention the incredible inconvinience of being taken off an airplane, and to have to go back through security again.

If I'm not mistaken:

#1 JetBlue prides themselves with their on time record.

#2 They allow themselves enough time for a ~30 minute turn-around.

Obviously you can't perform that efficiently under such conditions. Consistent lapses of this sort could definitely cripple JB

I might be missing something here, so please help me out. I have heard mentioned on this board, a few times, that airlines with brief turn times will suffer with the increased security at the check points.

From my position, these are somewhat unrelated. Passengers who don't get to the gate in time as a result of the longer lines, more intense searches, etc, may miss their flight. But how does the security checkpoint affect the plane's turn time? It is the passengers responsibility to get to the gate.

Thanks!

[This message has been edited by PVDtoGO (edited 11-09-2001).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PVDtoGO:
I might be missing something here, so please help me out. I have heard mentioned on this board, a few times, that airlines with brief turn times will suffer with the increased security at the check points.

From my position, these are somewhat unrelated. Passengers who don't get to the gate in time as a result of the longer lines, more intense searches, etc, may miss their flight. But how does the security checkpoint affect the plane's turn time? It is the passengers responsibility to get to the gate.</font>

For one, Positive Passenger Baggage Match (PPBM) can slow things down. If a passenger checks bags at the ticket counter, then is delayed an unreasonably long time at the security checkpoint, their flight may be ready to go with their bags on board, but with the passenger not at the gate yet. In this event, the flight gets delayed while they get the baggage off the flight, or find the passenger and expidite them through security and to the gate.

This is one reason that check-in times for international flights are longer than for domestic ones. Since all int'l flights have PPBM, they want the passengers on board in plenty of time so that they have time to pull people's bags that don't board but still have an on-time departure. Many airlines are requesting that you arrive at the airport 3 hours prior to departure for international flights. If this were to be the norm going forward for domestic flights, it would have a significant impact on people's travel patterns (that is, more people driving instead of flying, or just not taking discretionary trips). I don't think PPBM is a bad thing, but they need to figure out how to get it done without causing delays or unreasonably long check-in requirements.

Ironically, one thing that has made this worse is the reduction in carry-on allowances, meaning that more passengers that otherwise would have carried everything on with them are now having to check bags. I would hope that in the medium term, the security checkpoint equipment and staffing can be adjusted to allow the previous carry-on allowances while still providing adequate security.

As for other delays, they are now hand-searching carry-ons and the persons of some passengers at the gate right as they board. These presumably are some passengers that get profiled based on any number of things (such as the gentleman in Chicago last week that was traveling on a one-way ticket and had several weapons in his carry-on). This slows down boarding.

Also, all passengers must show their ID along with their boarding passes at the jetway. This is bound to add a few minutes to the boarding process.

So, I think you're right in that much of the increased lines at security serve to increase the amount of time you must arrive at the airport before the flight departs. But, there are also other factors that do cause delays.

As far as JetBlue goes, they operate on 100% bag match.

Also, I flew them BTV-JFK-SEA a few weeks ago and found the security to be very tight. Both in BTV and in JFK the airline staff was wanding lots of passengers as they boarded, and the whole operation was still running with tight turns, full planes, and on time.

I had a 3 hour layover, so I left the terminal, and was surprised that the security line was less than 10 minutes long, even though there was a large bank of departing flights.

This incident seems to be an anomaly. JetBlue is a well run airline, although I think their inflight service (friendly F/As don't make up for only 2 beverage services on a 6 hour flight) is lousy.

PVDtoGO:

The reason the post-9/11 security measures threaten the viability of the quick turn airlines like Southwest and jetBlue is because the FAA mandated on 9/12 that every plane's cabin and cargo hold must be searched before boarding each flight. I agree that the checkpoint security doesn't affect the airlines' ability to turn flights.

Problem is, if most of the pax are still stuck in a really long checkpoint line as boarding begins, the airlines will have to delay flights (or fly 1/2 empty planes) to avoid leaving lots of pax at the gate.

Apparently, the FAA brain trust must think that the airline personnel that can't seem to find all the garbage in the seatbacks will magically find all of the weapons hidden by the hoardes of terrorists. This lunacy may add another 10 to 15 minutes of turntime to every flight in the nation.

"Cost is no object if safety is improved" -- "For $500, repeat the mantra that contributed to the death of commercial airline travel in the US in 2002."

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FWAAA:
PVDtoGO:

The reason the post-9/11 security measures threaten the viability of the quick turn airlines like Southwest and jetBlue is because the FAA mandated on 9/12 that every plane's cabin and cargo hold must be searched before boarding each flight. I agree that the checkpoint security doesn't affect the airlines' ability to turn flights.

Problem is, if most of the pax are still stuck in a really long checkpoint line as boarding begins, the airlines will have to delay flights (or fly 1/2 empty planes) to avoid leaving lots of pax at the gate.

Apparently, the FAA brain trust must think that the airline personnel that can't seem to find all the garbage in the seatbacks will magically find all of the weapons hidden by the hoardes of terrorists. This lunacy may add another 10 to 15 minutes of turntime to every flight in the nation.

"Cost is no object if safety is improved" -- "For $500, repeat the mantra that contributed to the death of commercial airline travel in the US in 2002." </font>

I am not sure that that is true. Planes must be searched at the begining of the day and if there is any security lapse

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PVDtoGO:
I might be missing something here, so please help me out. I have heard mentioned on this board, a few times, that airlines with brief turn times will suffer with the increased security at the check points.

From my position, these are somewhat unrelated. Passengers who don't get to the gate in time as a result of the longer lines, more intense searches, etc, may miss their flight. But how does the security checkpoint affect the plane's turn time? It is the passengers responsibility to get to the gate.

Thanks!

[This message has been edited by PVDtoGO (edited 11-09-2001).]</font>


In a case like this JetBlue incident (which just happended to be a JetBlue flight, could have been any airline), once they found the problems at the security checkpoint gate they took everybody off an airplane, had them step back out through security, and then come through again to be properly screened. I would hope that included a search of the plane too, but even if it didn't there isn't any way a plane can turn around in 30 or so minutes if they have to drag everybody off and reboard an entire flight after the delay for screening the second time.

All these little delays of a minute here and a minute there start to add up. I don't think an airline will be able to keep it's schedule if they show 200 people checked in two hours early but only 15 were at the gate because of security delays, they would have to hold the plane a bit or try to move those people to the front of the line.

It's not just an issue of getting there early enough, as this incident showed. You could have gotten there the day before, but because somebody wasn't doing their job everybody was delayed.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mikey1003:
I am not sure that that is true. Planes must be searched at the begining of the day and if there is any security lapse</font>

This is my understanding as well. Interestingly, I overheard a WN flight attendant say that there are more problems with seat cushions getting damaged and becoming uncomfortable, generating passenger complaints. This is a result of them being removed at the beginning of each day in order to search for weapons. They're not being put back in place properly in all cases. It's an interesting side effect.