Independence Air iClub - Tonight's Event is sponsored by Independence air

I went to the Syracuse Symphony Orchestra tonight and DH was one of the top sponsors. They were the official airline and had their name throughout the program. Seemed a little odd that they would be spending money on something like that.

Did they play some of the same music played when the Titanic sank? :D

They also had a major sponsorship as the Official Airline of the Washington Redskins. The banner was recently taken off the Redskins webpage. In early December, they sponsored the BB&T basketball classic in DC and gave out can huggers. I still have a few of them. Just yesterday, I went to a concert and the back of the ticket had the Flyi logo on it with "Washington's Hometown Airline." I guess all these sponsorships were bought and paid for and we may see them for a while longer. Kind of sad.

I went to the Syracuse Symphony Orchestra tonight and DH was one of the top sponsors. They were the official airline and had their name throughout the program. Seemed a little odd that they would be spending money on something like that.

The symphony probably got that money a long time ago and the programs printed well in advance....

DH probably won't need the tax deduction though and their planes won't be going by those pink birds at SYR !

Bob H

Expect of the Redskins deal; most of the sponsorships were done without cash. Free tickets were given to the company/group to in exchange for sponsorship.

They also had a major sponsorship as the Official Airline of the Washington Redskins.

Yet Dan Snyder chartered United Airlines aircraft to fly the Redskins to road games. Pretty damned funny.

my point is that they didn't have the money to do all that

But if they just traded tickets for the publicity, I'm sure it was as a measured investment to get some new customers without having to pay too much for marketing.

my point is that they didn't have the money to do all that

Young man,

One thing you will learn in your more wiser years is that the bankroll for the operations budget is watched very very closely, yet the bankroll for advertising and sales is almost unlimited.

After all, if you don't spend money to advertise, how can you get people in the door to spend money on your product?

Yet Dan Snyder chartered United Airlines aircraft to fly the Redskins to road games. Pretty damned funny.

i'd charter united too, i mean, you want to make sure you can actually get your team to the games! they would have needed greyhound to get to seattle this weekend!

and yes, flyi did a sponsorship with ticketmaster i believe. i work in the box office at the mci center, and every ticket was have has "washington's hometown airline...flyi" on the back. and i remember back in october thinking, "not for long."

Yet Dan Snyder chartered United Airlines aircraft to fly the Redskins to road games. Pretty damned funny.


What was he going to do, put them all (and equipment) on RJs??? Oh, that's right, they could have put 75 or so people (players, coaches, trainers, etc.) and all the equipment on an A319. The Denver Broncos always charter a UA 767 and I suspect that's what the Redskins usually do.

The 'play bill' had them listed in the $25,000+ section

But if they just traded tickets for the publicity, I'm sure it was as a measured investment to get some new customers without having to pay too much for marketing.

What was he going to do, put them all (and equipment) on RJs??? Oh, that's right, they could have put 75 or so people (players, coaches, trainers, etc.) and all the equipment on an A319. The Denver Broncos always charter a UA 767 and I suspect that's what the Redskins usually do.

So who gets to sit in first and who goes in the back. also, isn't a 767 a little big i mean it has about 240 seats.

So who gets to sit in first and who goes in the back. also, isn't a 767 a little big i mean it has about 240 seats.


Yes, a 767 is a little large but it gives them room to spread out. I don't know for sure but I imagine the coaching staff takes the few F seats and spills into C accompanied by team captains and other long timers/All Pros. I imagine everyone else grabs a few coach seats. I'm sure the O and D lines take 2 seats, one for each @$$ cheek. Don't forget all the equipment. I'm sure that's a lot of cargo for a smaller aircraft.

Once Denver beats Pitt this weekend you can track Denver's flight to Detroit, its always flight 9202. ;)

university of tennessee charters a DL 767. it's not just the football team that goes. i'm sure you have members of the media, and maybe family members as well.

university of tennessee charters a DL 767. it's not just the football team that goes. i'm sure you have members of the media, and maybe family members as well.


...and, as stupid as it sounds, pro contracts often have clauses such as "joe doe will have, at a minimum one coach seat empty on both sides of him or one first class seat on a chartered plane" or other such language. Thus, 30 players, 3 seats each is 90 right there.

The 'play bill' had them listed in the $25,000+ sectionYes, but that doesn't mean it is a cash payment -- it could be barter to provide that much in tickets to the Symphony which may have never been used. Even if it is cash, I'm sure they justified it as a marketing expense to get new passengers.

As much as everything else was costing, spending $25K in cash just as a guess to try and get some new passengers is a reasonably good deal. Keep in mind they were losing aroung $1M per day, so that's around 30 minutes or so of operations. At that trade-off, even if it is cash, it was likely a good idea just to pick up some new passengers from the Syracuse area.

Yes, but that doesn't mean it is a cash payment -- it could be barter to provide that much in tickets to the Symphony which may have never been used. Even if it is cash, I'm sure they justified it as a marketing expense to get new passengers.

As much as everything else was costing, spending $25K in cash just as a guess to try and get some new passengers is a reasonably good deal. Keep in mind they were losing aroung $1M per day, so that's around 30 minutes or so of operations. At that trade-off, even if it is cash, it was likely a good idea just to pick up some new passengers from the Syracuse area.


I disagree.

@:-) They were losing $1 mil per day not because they had a single expense pushing them into the red but hundreds of poor decisions and unneccesary expenses. If you run a business you know the best way to save $1 mil is to save $10,000 here and $15,000 there and...so on.

What's the easiest way to eat an elephant? One bite at a time...

Once Denver beats Pitt this weekend you can track Denver's flight to Detroit, its always flight 9202. ;)

You mean when Pittsburgh beats Denver you will have to wait until the pre-season in August to track the Broncos next flight :p

I disagree.

@:-) They were losing $1 mil per day not because they had a single expense pushing them into the red but hundreds of poor decisions and unneccesary expenses. If you run a business you know the best way to save $1 mil is to save $10,000 here and $15,000 there and...so on.

What's the easiest way to eat an elephant? One bite at a time...

Let me clarify the SYR Orchestra issue once and for all. It was done in trade for tickets only.

From the very beginning, all sponsorships were first attempted to be done with trade, but if an amazing opportunity came up where tickets were not accepted, a deal was cut with partial cash and partial trade.

After about 6/05 or 7/05, NO sponsorships were paid for in cash. All were done with trade. During this time period (mid '05 - shut down) if the proposing party (an orchestra, for example) would not accept trade, the offer was generally declined.

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Let me clarify the SYR Orchestra issue once and for all. It was done in trade for tickets only.

From the very beginning, all sponsorships were first attempted to be done with trade, but if an amazing opportunity came up where tickets were not accepted, a deal was cut with partial cash and partial trade.

After about 6/05 or 7/05, NO sponsorships were paid for in cash. All were done with trade. During this time period (mid '05 - shut down) if the proposing party (an orchestra, for example) would not accept trade, the offer was generally declined.

Hope this clears things up a bit.



I understand but whether you realize it or not there is a cost associated with doing deals on a trade basis. Correct me if I'm wrong but FlyI had to pay for their planes? Their fuel? Their labor? Their catering? Etc. Meanwhile they were giving away inventory that they could otherwise sell. This not only equates to lost revenue (FlyI needed every penny they could get their hands on) but it also then cost them more to operate those flights due to the added weight of the additional passengers who weren't paying a dime to fly. Whether they paid cash for those deals or not it still cost FlyI money.

I hope that clears things up a bit also. ;)

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad FlyI supported the Syracuse Symphony, SYR is my hometown. :)

Yet Dan Snyder chartered United Airlines aircraft to fly the Redskins to road games. Pretty damned funny.

According to http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2545577/ the usual charter flight for the Redskins was a 757 or 767. But the last flight to Seattle was a 747-400.

According to http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2545577/ the usual charter flight for the Redskins was a 757 or 767. But the last flight to Seattle was a 747-400.


There's no "salary cap" on chartering airliners. Dan Snyder wants to keep those guys happy and a 744 is a nice bird to do a transcon with your team. I'm a bit surprised Snyder hasn't purchased a nice second hand 762, 763, or 744 and customized it for the team. That would be a nice perk for luring in free agents.

Who's going to be the official airline of the Redskins next year?

Not to go completely OMNI on this discussion...

Most sports teams do not own their own aircraft. Off of the top of my head, the only two that do are "Madison Square Garden Inc" who owns the a/c the NY Knicks use, and the DTW Red Wings/Tigers share a plane. Most others charter. Pace and Champion (NW subsidiary, NW got out of the sports charter business in '04 I think) are the two largest by far; Vulcan Air runs some 757's for the Portland teams and maybe a few more west coast teams. Miami Air may run a few. PS, for anything but football, it's usually 737's of some sort that are used. OOps, I think the MSY Hornets have a 727.

I understand but whether you realize it or not there is a cost associated with doing deals on a trade basis. Correct me if I'm wrong but FlyI had to pay for their planes? Their fuel? Their labor? Their catering? Etc. Meanwhile they were giving away inventory that they could otherwise sell. This not only equates to lost revenue (FlyI needed every penny they could get their hands on) but it also then cost them more to operate those flights due to the added weight of the additional passengers who weren't paying a dime to fly. Whether they paid cash for those deals or not it still cost FlyI money.
And it costs money to advertise on FlyerTalk, the WSJ, and CNN which they shouldn't have done because it was money they could have used for something else. Obviously they have to do some advertising to get people to know about them and use them for travel.

If they were filling up a seat that wasn't going to be sold (which was very likely the case since it was rare for a plane to be completely full) then the marginal cost to them to put someone in that seat is probably around $15. (Mainlines consider the cost of an award ticket to be around that amount.) If they valued each ticket as a gift of $250, then for 100 tickets or an "actual cost" of $1500, then that's a pretty good advertising investment to reach some many people of that demographic type.

Yes, there's a cost involved, but I think these deals are a lot smarter than many of the other business deals that are out there. For a relatively small investment in various areas, they get a lot of publicity and outreach to new groups that can be difficult to advertise to otherwise. I saw them as a sponsor of an event here near RDU that got them included on all the printed and online collateral for the price of donating a few tickets.

And it costs money to advertise on FlyerTalk, the WSJ, and CNN which they shouldn't have done because it was money they could have used for something else. Obviously they have to do some advertising to get people to know about them and use them for travel.

If they were filling up a seat that wasn't going to be sold (which was very likely the case since it was rare for a plane to be completely full) then the marginal cost to them to put someone in that seat is probably around $15. (Mainlines consider the cost of an award ticket to be around that amount.) If they valued each ticket as a gift of $250, then for 100 tickets or an "actual cost" of $1500, then that's a pretty good advertising investment to reach some many people of that demographic type.

Yes, there's a cost involved, but I think these deals are a lot smarter than many of the other business deals that are out there. For a relatively small investment in various areas, they get a lot of publicity and outreach to new groups that can be difficult to advertise to otherwise. I saw them as a sponsor of an event here near RDU that got them included on all the printed and online collateral for the price of donating a few tickets.



Please don't misunderstand me, I wasn't suggesting FlyI shouldn't have advertised at all. The poster I replied to was suggesting, in my opinion, that since these deals weren't done with cash there wasn't a cost associated with them. I was simply pointing out there is a cost associated with them and there is no such thing as a free lunch. You raise valid points however I will take issue with the fact these seats only cost FlyI $15 or so. When FlyI does a $25,000 plus deal and I doubt they were getting the other party to buy off on a $250/ticket value. FlyI was charging no where near that on most routes. Furthermore, its not safe to assume these seats would have gone unsold therefore there is no lost opportunity cost. They very well could have sold some/most of the tickets they gave away for free therefore increasing their "cost" for advertising.

Again, I'm not asserting these were bad deals, I'm just saying that just because they were done with no cash outlay doesn't mean they didn't "cost" FlyI money (and maybe a lot of it).

According to http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2545577/ the usual charter flight for the Redskins was a 757 or 767. But the last flight to Seattle was a 747-400.

Whats thepoint of taking the 747 most of the plane would be empty and its not like they had is special configured to use the space.

Whats thepoint of taking the 747 most of the plane would be empty and its not like they had is special configured to use the space.

I see your point, but I'm not a 6'7", 350 lb lineman. Possibly it was offered to them because other aircraft were in use. Doesn't UA have some of their 744s parked?

I see your point, but I'm not a 6'7", 350 lb lineman. Possibly it was offered to them because other aircraft were in use. Doesn't UA have some of their 744s parked?

I forgot to add that all Canadian sports teams charter with AC to fly around. They have an A320 in a VIP config, with about 60 "all first class" seats. I've been on several different sports charter aircraft, and most of them are nothing to write home about. I actually did see the A320 in revenue service at LAX a few months ago.

There is no way a whole team would take a 'vip' configured jet. There are too many people. But the 60 'all first class' seats makes a lot more sence for teams, than anything else that has been listed. When you think about it, it would make sense if the NFL just owned (or a fraction of several) of the planes.


I forgot to add that all Canadian sports teams charter with AC to fly around. They have an A320 in a VIP config, with about 60 "all first class" seats. I've been on several different sports charter aircraft, and most of them are nothing to write home about. I actually did see the A320 in revenue service at LAX a few months ago.