Trip Reports - SFO-LAX-CDG-ATH/IST Air France F/C

SFO:
PClub, Suzanne was great as usual, sent some email, ate a bagel. Went through a zoo of a security line. Still had some time, so I went to the newly renovated BoardRoom, it was very nice, very stark and clean.. .scandanavianlike. Self service drinks including espresso/cappucino machine. breakfast pastries and fruit. Plasma TVs, no inet access. But very nice.

AS 876 SFO-LAX 3F (MD-80)
Aircraft was clean, on time, and quiet up front. Seats were clean and comfortable and the FA was very nice. Bottled water at the seats, she came by and got drink orders before we took off. The Baily's and Tea I ordered came separately, but that was good. She brought me a refill, and asked again if I'd like another, but 2 was good. and 2 packs of biscoffs.

LAX part I:
Waiting for a friend, I went up to the BR in LAX, which you have to go upstairs for, but it is very large, and quite nice. The agents were exceptionally friendly and helpful. Drank lots of Diet Coke. They had ethernet jacks but no wireless, and paid kiosks. The furniture was comfortable and clean.

interlude to in & out and starbucks

back @ LAX at 13:30. one person @ AF counter, he said they won't open check in until 3. So I walk to the international terminal check it out, walk around for a bit and then return at 14:40 to the F line, there is now quite a crowd, one lady ahead of me. More people pile in, including an ape-like guy behind me. Knowing all the threads on the subject, I didn't make any glances or remarks. 3:05 rolls around, and 2 people start manning the Y desks, and a lady grabs the first lady in line and asks "first class?" No. the people piled in front of the C line, No. She asks the guy behind me, nope, coach (thank goodness). I said I'm in F. She hands me off to a guy who clearly doesn't really know what he is doing. She then started helping a C class woman next to me. He was taking forever doing stuff, I gave him my CO card but he didn't type in the number, unfortunately... oh well. Then I hear her tell the lady that she is welcome to use the NW lounge (ick, I thought... ...... they had better not do that for us) fortunately, he told me we can use the Air NZ lounge. She reminded him to put a priority tag on my bag. And he said they'd send someone to escort me to the plane from the lounge. Security was a zoo of course, a little elf in a santa hat kept pulling up all the C/F/urgent pax to the front, including me. Got through there, went to the lounge and the lady told me they should have given me an invitation. I told them they were somewhat disorganized, and she said that's about par for the course. The lounge was very very nice, buffet with salad, cold cuts, fresh fruit, lots of wine and champagne, beers, soda, etc. I took a shower. They had internet terminals, no wifi, but they had cords you could borrow. At T-30 I didn't see the purported AF person, so I just went down. It was a zoo, and they decided not to bounce all the Y pax from the C/F line...


AF 69 LAX-CDG 777-200ER. (1L, Old F) The people sitting behind me in F were apparently rock stars, completely tattooed and multiply punctured with uncomfortable metallic objects. The seat was comfortable though my leg rest didn't go completely horizontal, making the sleeping position less comfortable by drooping down. No laptop power. AVOD with 5 movies (I chose the Island). Pre-takeoff was an offer of water. (yeah.. ) They handed out Christian Lacroix pajamas and slippers. The menu was small but cute, with a entree du jour( a curried chicken). I ordered the steak of course. Before take off, they brought out the hot (sopping wet) towels. First came an appetizer course of (not terribly good) rolls, with good butter and a small salad with this nice vinaigrette and olive oil. The foie gras was ok, not great. The salad my seatmate got looked ok. The steak was great, tender, but not very flavorful, but it was medium so it wasn't a piece of leather. The curry chicken didn't look so great. I moved on to the (very nice) bordeaux with the dinner. The cheese cart was great, I asked for a sampling and she gave me a lot of each of them. Unfortunately, they didn't have real baguette so I had to make due with the crackers and rolls. I ordered espresso which was fine. Then came the desserts which I picked a strawberry tart which was very good. Then I put on my PJs and went to bed. I slept OK I suppose. I woke up to breakfast an hour before landing. I asked for the omelette, which was more like nasty scrambled eggs with scallions mixed in. not good. They had some over-reheated croissants. We landed at CDG about an hour late. Nobody could tell me if my bags would go all the way through, but apparently they will because they didn't come out, and the lady at AF baggage told me it would go through. I hope she is right.

CDG. Yeah, its a crappy airport. While I was waiting to see (I had 3 hours till the next flight), if my baggage would come, it took about 35 minutes before the first bags came. After another 20 minutes or so, and everyone else mostly being gone, I asked baggage services what they thought... they told me not to worry and that it would be in ATH. OK, So I go to the other terminal for the next flight. I went through "security", I mean the TSA is a joke but at least they put on a decent show. these guys didn't even pretend to know what they were doing. I get through security and look for the lounge but surprise, its outside security. so I go back out and go up to the lounge. thank goodness they had internet but it was only on their terminals. The lounge was nice, a decent selection of liquor, including Sapphire :) too bad I didn't feel like getting hammered. I didn't eat the snackie things. But I think I lost my iPod shuffle somewhere there :( I got a massage, that was a nice feature. Then I went back thru "security" and onto the plane.


AF 2332 CDG-ATH A321 (C = Y with no more legroom, some better food, and a tray where the middle seat is). There are only 5 people in 'affaires', not surprising since its certainly not worth the $ if you're payin! Flight time 3 hours. Before departure, choice of OJ, champagne or water water offered. After departure, menus were handed out, though there was no choice. Free range chicken with mashed potatoes and eggplant, which turned out to be mushrooms and some squash thingy instead. There was a mini salad with shrimpies on top, and seeing as I hate shrimp, I skipped it. The FAs came around with mini baguettes which were far better than the ones on the LAX flight. Also on the tray was a cup of water, a dessert, which was not bad, 2 slices of cheese and butter. I had bordeaux with dinner and then tea for dessert. Service was friendly but terse. The chicken was eh. The rest of what I ate was fine.
The pilot came on the PA several times to point out the various cities we were passing over, in english and french.

transatlantic:
CO vs. AF
Check-In Service: CO
Lounge: AF (BF v F)
Boarding: CO
Preflight: CO (BF v F)
Amenity Kit: AF
InFlight Svc: CO (BF v F)
Appetizers: AF
Main Course: CO
Seat: AF (caveat emptor: no power !)
Cheese Course: AF
Dessert: Tie
Breakfast: CO
IFE: AF

price: CO BF ~3k, AF F 10k


ATH: The airport is pretty nice, very modern. Looks like it was done economically but very nicely. I think its a fine example of how an airport can be 'nice' without being extravagant. I was told I needed to be there 2 hours in advance (with LY... you never do know, so I wanted to be safe) the hotel told me to leave at 6, which I did and got to the airport at 6:30 though, checkin was painless of course, except they wouldn't upgrade my .... The airport has the check in area, then passport control, then beyond there is a duty free /food zone, and lounges. There was an Olympic airways lounge, the Swissport lounge and the BA Terraces. Unfortunately, with my measly Y ticket, none of my other cards would do the trick, Swissport would take 25eu, but I was feeling cheap. Alas, nothing beyond security but the seating area, so I went back out and am now sitting at the cafe sipping a cappuccino.

The return journey

TLV 1/4
Arrived at the airport 1:45 before the flight. Went to the business class check-in. Security check took about a minute, as always it was very professional. LY's premium check-in is behind the primary check-in area, it is quieter and the agents were competent and fast. BP issued and was told to go to the King David lounge to wait for the flight. KD was busy but very nice. Much more spacious than the Dan lounges @ TLV. I made a quick stop at the CD store to buy some CDs (about 11$ each), then the security checkpoint. 2 minutes later I was through, no bull.... with the shoes, though they do examine the laptops separately. Passport control was 30 seconds. THe terminal was very busy. The process from the train to the lounge was about 20 minutes.

KD Lounge

Assortment of breads, pastries, vegetables, fruits (very good of course), wine, a coffee machine for espresso based drinks, and a wide variety of soft drinks. They had some yummy chicken soup but no mini-mandels, which is a disappointment. There was also an upstairs section which was empty but had comfy chairs and plasma TVs. On the opposite side was the LY First lounge which I did not get to see.

LY 581 TLV-IST 767-300ER Seat 4A, C class
Boarded at the appointed time, no line, BP taken and I took my seat, 4A. There was a problem with the communication system so we were sitting at the gate for a while, and they fixed it. The aircraft was a 767-300ER, which is often used for longer sectors, it had real business class, 50-55" pitch and completely reclining seats (22 of them, 8 filled). We took off westward and made a sharp turn-around, unfortunately I had the south-facing window and there isn't as much to see (I love seeing the Azrieli center at night, it looks amazing). we were offered water or OJ prior to take off, the OJ was very good. After takeoff we were offered Yarden Brut sparkling wine, which is good. shortly after hot cloth towels, and then a small dinner service which was a salad, smoke salmon, bread, a deli plate with corned beef, salami, turkey, some olives, fruit and a pecan cake. Yarden Merlot was offered with the dinner. That was followed by tea/coffee service, with several refills, the tea came with cookies with each refill. Before landing, mints were passed out, along with a second hot towel. Not bad for a 1:45 flight.

Service was great, always with a smile (and I know that the FA's hate this route... )

A side note is that a friend needed to reissue a ticket, and had to go to the LY office, I went with her and it took them almost an hour to do it, they had one person working on it and 2 watching. Their ticketing agents are really slow and inefficient. Her travel agent had messed up the ticket but it should have taken 3 minutes to reissue the ticket.
LY has a great product in the sky, in terms of food, service, and I think their seat comfort is actually pretty good. On the ground and internet they suck. something needs to be done about that. Priority baggage came out quickly.

Istanbul: The airport seemed decent. Taxi to the hotel took about a half hour and 25 YTL (~$20). The RC Istanbul was very nice, they had the entrance blocked off and you had to go through a metal detector. Staff was very nice. The room was fairly large, internet for fee (40 YTL, way too much I thought). I kept everything locked in the safe just to be safe. The bathroom was impressive. In addition, the health club was nice, in the basement, and included saunas and a pool, and a hamam. The city was pretty dirty and grimy. There were lots of annoying tourist remoras. The sites were impressive.

IST: At IST they have a metal detector stage before going into the airport. The AF check-in area was a zoo. The business class line took 20 minute, which was totally unacceptable to me. I don't understand why it took them 5 minutes to deal with each person, and only 2 check-in positions. Service once I got to the agent was competent, she gave me boarding passes for IST-CDG and CDG-LAX and checked my bag thru to SFO. I was given a pass to a lounge that appeared to be run by one of the local banks. Passport control was quick, I got a wink from a cute passport control officer.... The lounge was OK, the internet access was slow, there was a mediocre selection of stuff to eat and drink. There was an additional security check right before boarding.

AF 2391 IST-CDG A320 Seat 4F (C-class)
The business class was full, 30 people. Jackets were not taken. Hot towels were handed out after the door closed. Takeoff was smooth. Then, menus and amenity kits were passed out. About an hour later breakfast was served, which consisted of a small piece of grilled chicken in tomato shmutz, a crepe filled with spinach and cheese with mushrooms on the side, some fruit, a plastic container of formerly frozen OJ, a small tray of yogurt, and a cold croissant. Tea was offered as well. The food was OK, nothing to write home about. Service was also nothing special. EuroBiz really does suck.

CDG. It IS a lousy airport. The shuttle was packed and took forever. Once off the boarding bridge, the transfer and baggage claim areas are like dungeons. Very dark, escalators weren't working, crowded and claustrophobic. I went to the AF F lounge. It was in the basement level, with a view of the tarmac. It was reasonably big, with a self-service bar and snack spread. There was a refrigerator with cans of soda, a bottle of champagne and various snacks including 2 types of sandwiches. I asked the agent about wireless, he said, "Of course, its 10 euro". I did not say to him if you're in the FIRST class lounge you shouldn't have to pay for internet... The lounge was relatively clean, there was a semi-separate smoking area. The bathrooms were dingy. There was one iMac for internet access.


AF 72 CDG-LAX. 777-200ER Seat 1B (P class)
Boarding was a zoo, a zoo! No separate line or call for premier, it was the cattle class and then premium classes + elites all together. Annoyingly, they had the boarding thru 1L, so everyone was walking past. Jacket was taken quickly. After quite a while, champagne was offered (in glass), it was refilled 3 times before takeoff since we were delayed while they were waiting 30 minutes for 2 pax(!). We were given pajamas, the amenity kit, slippers+sockies and a bag for our shoes which I believe I shall hold on to. After the door finally closed, hot towels were handed out, they felt really good. This 777 did not have the AVOD that the outbound did, just cycled programs. The only movie of interest was crash but I think it lost something in the reduction to the 5" screen. We took off after a very long taxi (CDG is a freaking huge airport). After taking off, menus were distributed, the filet mignon looked good, as did the dish of the day which is a chicken with apricot rice. I picked the beef one, just to make sure I'd like it. First was a Jaqueline(?) champagne which was very nice, I got more for the appetizer course. The canapes were a pickle+raw salmon, some radish thingy, and a shrimp thing, which I didn't eat, shrimp are gross. The appetizer was sliced vegetables with sesames, and some tomato stuffed pasta. it was delicious. It came with salad and baguettes. For the main course, I switched to the Bordeaux, again excellent. The meat was cooked to medium, and fairly tasty though not the most tender, it was offered with mustard, of which I picked the seedy variety that my seatmate chose, he was french... The rest of the dish which was sweet potatoes and some cheese-like substance was not impressive. The baguettes were good though. Next was the cheese course, I switched to the Sauterne for that. It was too sweet for me. The cheese was very good, I took my time. Finally dessert, I picked the fresh fruit and mango sorbet, both were good. Then they distributed bottled water and a box of chocolates. As I write this, 10/12 of the P cabin are asleep, but its only 7pm in TLV, I took a little shnatz, but my one complaint about the 777 is that its too damn hot. I don't understand why 737's can be nice and cold while the 777 you can be boiling, especially under the thick blanket.

The so-called buffet is a tray of fruit and some drinks set out back in the business class cabin. its a joke. FAs did not come through very often. The second meal was served approximately 1:30 before landing. It was a tray at first, with appetizers, which were some pickles and smoked salmon with cream sauce inside and the dessert of spiced strawberries and pineapple. We were then offered a choice of lamb filets or stuffed mushrooms, I picked the lamb, I dislike mushrooms. It was not good, the meat was tough and overcooked. No coffee or digestif was offered afterwards. The purser came through and thanked us for flying AF, though not by name. And before landing they distributed hot towels.

LAX: Got off the plane quickly and to passport control with no line, so that took about a minute, baggage took another 15, and then customs was uneventful, re-checked my bag and got my AS BP, proceeded up to the AS Boardroom. The staff is friendly and very helpful. The gave me an ethernet cable. I converted my power adaptors back to US and charged my drained batteries.

AS 329 LAX-SFO 737-400 3C.
The flight was about 25 minutes late leaving, then we had a holding pattern in the air. The pitch felt really really tight. We were asked for our drink orders before takeoff. I was so wiped I half slept through the flight. We arrived 35 minutes late.

SFO: Stopped by to say hi to the folks at the p-club and shoot off email. Went downstairs and grabbed my bag and found a luggage cart that was not being used. Back to the BART.

Conclusions: The re-routing was not worth it to get the AF F, I bet that AF NEV J would have been good enough, old AF C looked sucky. AF in general is not as nice as CO, and certainly vastly inferior to the leading international carriers. The F lounge has some features that are nicer, such as the better food and alcohol. However, they do not have free wireless/wired (except for a couple terminals). Service was not as good as CO.

I can't agree with you more on CO BF vs AF F! I've only taken the CDG-LAX flt(747) once in F and it was so disappointing, especially the food! Our CO BF flt from Houston-CDG was so much better in terms of food quality, although the wine was not impressive. I did like the flat seats and duvets on AF though-they were extremely comfortable.

Thanks for the report.

Pre-takeoff water in F? :td:

yeah pre-takeoff water(!). of course, no drinks pre-takeoff in AF euroBiz vv

the wine was very nice, but I'd sooner buy a superlative $100 bottle and save the $8000 difference in fare. If I was paying cash for that ticket I would have been pissed as hell with the service quality.

As explained here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4930978&postcount=3) by an AF FA (manureva744), AF would have to face heavy US customs fines if they opened bottles of (French) Champagne before the aircraft's doors are closed. No problem with american sparkling wines, I guess.

The same issue has been reported (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4934049&postcount=9) for BA flights too.

Thanks for the report! Boarding indeed can be chaos, I don't understand why some airlines don't look after their premium cabin passengers better..

I thank you for this very interesting report...I now know that I am not interested in the first class product of Air France....at least from LAX....

but my one complaint about the 777 is that its too damn hot. I don't understand why 737's can be nice and cold while the 777 you can be boiling, especially under the thick blanket.


I have absolutely no fact to back it up, but I swear it has something to do with the 777's lack of personal air vents. I hate that!

I have absolutely no fact to back it up, but I swear it has something to do with the 777's lack of personal air vents. I hate that!
All you have to do is ask tha FA to turn down the thermostat. It's worked for me.

the lack of air vents make things worse, but in general the cabin temps are kept too hot.

One other thing, is that, unlike my experiences with CO, the food is all pre-plated and heated in the same dishes it is served on, and its all handed to you off of the cart.