MilesBuzz! - Is travel to Europe Safe?

I am suppossed to take my two kids on a family trip to Vienna in Nov.
It's to meet my parents there along w/ my sister and her family.
Mom and sis are very upset and don't want to go right now.
The source of worry other than general worry is the travel warnings from the State Dept.

So I'm looking for feedback. We will be in Alszberg and Vienna. I may take a stopover in London.

Any ideas about whether it's a good idea to go or not?
Frank-
BTW- taking a milage run 11/8 DFW-LGW for double miles and I hit PLAT on that trip. I may be blown to bits but that's a lot of miles for one trip. ha ha.



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TANSTAASFL - but if you work it right, FF miles comes pretty close.

I would see no reason why not to go. Europe is just as safe if not safer than being in the States. I tend to read the Department of State travel warnings as only one of the resources in determining the safety of traveling overseas--I would also check the travel warnings issued from Canada, England and Australia. If you read the warnings on the side a ladder do you not go up the ladder?

I also realize that these are unprecedented times. If someone is going to be very nervous and uneasy throughout the trip, you should respect that and not go.

i think europe is probably safer now than the US is. I, for one am planning on travelling there either next week or the following week, without any concerns. I actually think I'll be safer there than here. The situation in britain may be similar to that here in the US, as Tony Blair is sticking his head out in this operation.
Bottom line if you are willing to be in the US, you should have no concerns about travel to europe IMO.

BTW,
enjoy your trip!!!

First of all it's Salzberg we are going to.

The other element involved is if people don't FEEL safe it may not happen.

Since the kids are young, my two are 11,8 and my sister's two kids are 7,4 there is already a hightened sense of concern for kids safety.

This being added on top may stop the trip.

One good thing is with fares low we can wait till we get closer to decide.

Life is full of twists and turns.

Well... why would it not be safe, compared to staying here in the "target country"? What risks do you expect to face in Europe that you won't face here?

Remember most European countries are much more thorough and thoughtful about everyday street security -- train stations, museums, plazas, etc. -- than the US. Airports and air travel are no contest; Europe security is far safer.

My mother-in-law is just finishing a 16-day Italy trip and returning to the States tomorrow. 22 of the 45 people who signed up for her non-refundable tour cancelled. Silly them; she's had a glorious time, felt utterly safe and protected all the way, and she's been surrounded by sympathetic, solicitous Italians.

I say go. Maybe choose a non-US airline to cross the pond if you're really worried, but go.

Being just a short hop away from Salzburg, Austria here in Munich, Germany - I can assure you that everything's fine here and if I were you, I would make this trip.

Even the Oktoberfest here in Munich went fine without any incidents...

So, enjoy your trip! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Europe should be fine. Actually, right now I'd feel safer strolling through Piccadilly Circus, the Champs Elysees, Kurfurstendam or Piazza di Spagna than sitting in a sold-out stadium with 70,000 other fans watching a football game.

Also, if there are a lot of Americans shying away, tourist spots shouldn't be that crowded. On the other hand, if they are really worried they probably won't enjoy themselves.

I'm studying in Beijing right now and would much rather be here than back at school in the States (there was a threat and a 24 hour evacuation there last week).

My sister just got back from Eastern Europe and said she never really felt unsafe. Go and have a great time!

It is as safe as it ever will be. By November, there will usually be rain, and some snow at higher elevations.

In November, I will be flying one trans-atlantic and at least one inter-Europe.

I travel on a weekly basis several times through europe and so so with a safe feeling. Possible trouble spots have high visibility police and security seems to be better than ever. Come over here and enjoy yourself!

You'll all be fine - but skip London.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by msn:
You'll all be fine - but skip London.</font>

I agree since I believe that London will have become a terrorist target now that the attacks have begun.

You should go, but if you are skittish just bypass London. The corridor from Salzburg to Vienna is not really any sort of target area and is fairly homogenous in terms population and things out of the ordinary are noticed. Closer to Munich and Vienna the more cosmopolitan mix might allow something to slip in but i feel the Bavarian/Tyrol/Neiderosterreich area is a great "under the radar" location. Enjoy yourself, and do take the time to cruise the danube, visit Halstadt (especially) and Malthausen (though VERY somber) inbetween Vienna and Salzburg.

Go. Don't let events -- unless they further escalate over the coming weeks -- change your plans. This is what the terrorists want. In this way the undermine your own personal and family security, as well as the economics involved in your travels: further weakening the airlines and hotels and other travel related businesses. I have been planning to take my mother to Vienna in November too, and do not intend to change those plans base on yesterday's launch of direct hostilities on the part of the allied forces.

The guy who works next to me was scheduled to go from USA to Canada to United Kingdom tomorrow. He said he cancelled the trip after he heard that 'US and Canada and the UK were attacking Afghanistan'.

Shrug... I can understand him being leery at this time, but it is capitulation to the terrorists, unfortunately.. oh well.

If YOU feel comfortable, by all means go on the trip, I think there are alot of people who would not feel comfortable and even with cheap tickets/ accomodations would not fully enjoy themselves (your sister and mother among them)and therefore it may be better to re-schedule at a time the trip can be fully enjoyed.

At present, If I were traveling abroad I would also avoid any overtly American/British institutions and businesses that may be symbolic targets to the extremist terrorists.

I would go and I did (mid Sept) and I am going again(Nov, Dec). However, if you feel uncomfortable and think its going to stress you out on your well deserved holiday, then stay home. I have to say, that nothing was more relaxing to me than sitting at SIP Babylone, near the Bon Marche in Paris, having my cafe creme, and thinking about another croissant, and not being bombarded with more analysis and news reports.

In regards to large stadiums, I was thinking on Saturday, as I passed Husky stadium full of UW fans getting ready to cheer the dawgs on, how cool it was that life was getting back to normal. Oh well.

Bottom line, go if you feel like you will be relaxed. The kids will feel your stress and maybe not enjoy themselves too.

lala

Just was travelling in Europe last week: Germany and Switzerland, including FRA and ZRH. I still consider airport security stricter and better than in the U.S. I also know from reliable airline sources that passenger screening and racial profiling takes place for many flights. Among other things CAPAS (Computer Assisted Passanger Assessment System) and similiar methods are operating.

I say "go". Since the 1980's every time there has been a terrorist scare anywhere on the world, people in the U.S. wondered if it was still safe to go to Europe. It happened during the Gulf War, after the first WTC bombing, after the bombings of U.S. Embassies in Africa, etc. I have seen these scares come and go, and as far as I know not one single U.S. tourist in Europe was the victim of a terrorist incident during or after the crisis period. Go, and have a great time!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CFM3RD:
BTW- taking a milage run 11/8 DFW-LGW for double miles and I hit PLAT on that trip</font>


It's either safe, or it's not. Why would you feel it's safe to make a mileage run, but unsafe to take the family? If you truly feel it is unsafe, you certainly should not take the family to europe, why would you risk leaving your children w/out a father, just to get to Plat?

I'm not trying to be critical, just pointing out the logic.

As for myself, the wife and I will be flying this sunday CLE-EWR-CDG-BCN. We will then pick up a nice Med cruise that ends in ATH. we plan to spend a few days there, then head to Paris for a few more days before flying back to the states. It's gonna take a lot more than us bombing some caves to keep me at home. Quite honestly, the only thing that would stop me at this point is another airline shutdown.

Go if you think it's safe, or don't go at all. I'm proud to be an American, and I'm not taking my "Al Gore is a risky scheme" sticker off my samsonite!

I have several overseas trips planned in the next three months - 2 cents worth of advice -I would not go to any US branded stores overseas - while a warning has been specifically issued for Italy - common sense would keep me out of any US branded operations(McD, KFC, Gap, ect - ) in any country I would go to.

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Askworldtraveler, EXP,4 million AA miles+++

I want to thank everybody for their reassuring comments. I'm planning on going to Australia (Sydney and Melbourne) next month, and I was getting a little worried about traveling as well, given the State Dept.'s warning. However, I do think that it is safer to be there right now than here, and it will be interesting to experience another culture's perspective on all the goings-on.

Go. I've got a CDG trip in November, and I'm not hesitating at all. I was feeling the anxiety about safety and life in general for weeks now. But I never doubted air travel. This anxiety is causing not only mental, but physical setbacks in my life. I refuse to be slam dunked in some pothole on ole' highway 99. There is too much out in the world that I want to experience. And time is precious.

Go. Maybe skip London because there's plenty to do in Vienna and you'll spend less time around the airports. A good friend of mine is from Vienna and he's going in March (November is too cold for him).

Have a good time.

Linda

Thanks for all of the comments.
Here's an update.
I talked to my sister today, she is not interested at all in going. Mom is in the same boat. So that part of the trip looks as if it's off.
I am planning to go Nov 8th.. the logic is I do think it's safe and won't worry about it. I plan to visit the British Museum while I am there.
So there we are. It's a comprise.. sister won't go, but I will.
Maybe Vienna in the spring.
Thanks again for all of the comments and thoughts.
Anyone want to make a run DFW-LGW Nov 8th.?
Or is there a better place to go for $450?

This has been helpful.
Frank

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TANSTAASFL - but if you work it right, FF miles comes pretty close.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Ling:
Go. I've got a CDG trip in November, and I'm not hesitating at all. I was feeling the anxiety about safety and life in general for weeks now. But I never doubted air travel. This anxiety is causing not only mental, but physical setbacks in my life. I refuse to be slam dunked in some pothole on ole' highway 99. There is too much out in the world that I want to experience. And time is precious.</font>

Amen to that! Well said, Linda. And to you and CFM3RD, "Bon Voyage!"

(edited to correct errors in quoting)

[This message has been edited by bbinchi (edited 10-08-2001).]

I was just in and around paris recently and ad 2C at CDG there was no change whatsoever with airport security. Nothinbg at all had changed since my previous visit about 3 or 4 weeks ago. When not at the airport I saw nothing related to the problems, expect in the newspapers and on TV.

it's true it's true. I am in France now and coming into DeGaulle was a snap, easier than prior times in fact. Perhaps the fact that Dennis Hopper was on my plane made the process run more smoothly. No hijacker is going to mess with that guy--he's sincerely crazy.

:p

While risking the wrath of the moderators ( http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif ) may I suggest PiP 2001 as an alternative for that time period?

Mike

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a FlyerTalk tradition continues in November 2001 in Cannes, France......

Check the PiP 2001 Website (http://www.twics.com/~mjm/pip2001.html) or the FT Topic (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/001238.html) for details and news.

Re. London, I wouldn't skip it, there is no more of a terrorist threat than the past 20 years of IRA attacks. London is safe, has an excellent (highly visable) police force and a pretty alert public.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ScottC:
Re. London, I wouldn't skip it, there is no more of a terrorist threat than the past 20 years of IRA attacks. London is safe, has an excellent (highly visable) police force and a pretty alert public.</font>

Thanks for the support, Scott. I decided to take advantage of DL's double base miles for a couple of extra runs - one of which is LGA - ATL - LGW the weekend of 11/1. It never occured to me that this might be particularly unsafe until I read this thread. Have 4 r/t's to Europe coming up - no plans to change any of them.

I see this thread drew a lot of interest.

Nov 8th, I am taking a milage run to Europe.
London - $450
Paris - $420
ZRh - $400

It's a tough call.
Frank

I leave DFW - Nov 8 -12th. Anyone interested in joining me?

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TANSTAASFL - but if you work it right, FF miles comes pretty close.

CFM3RD --

I'll be flying DFW-FRA (AA070) on Nov.8, then connecting to ZRH. Couldn't get an upgrade on the direct DFW-ZRH flight(AA 038), but at least I get a few more miles this way. If you haven't committed to AA 038 yet maybe you could join me on AA 070.

Ark,

Trying to get out of Magnolia?

Do you know where England (as in Ark.) is? My mother was born there.

I will let you know. ZRH is looking good.
Trying to decide ZRH-CDG or LGW/LHR.

Thanks for the offer.

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TANSTAASFL - but if you work it right, FF miles comes pretty close.

Geez, people, relax a little, would you? The fact is, we have no idea where, or when, the terrorists will strike again. It could be tomorrow, it could be next week, next month, next year, or it could be a long time.

You simply cannot let fear of a terrorist attack dictate your life. Look at it this way. There are how many million people in New York City? Around 5,000 of them died. Horrible? Yes. But look at the odds of you being killed. I think there are something like fifteen million people in New York City, which means that your odds of gettting killed by the terrorists were around one in three thousand.

Let's look at it another way. On the day of the hijackings, there were what, 10,000 flights? Four of them were hijacked. So that means that your odds of being on one of those planes were one in 2,500.

MDTOny,

I certainly understand what you are saying. I used the flts hit/flights per day to point out the odds.
However, when you travel with kids.. especially your own it adds a level of worry.
Too much worry and the benefit of the trip is lost. No matter how many facts you add. I completely understand why people don't want to do.

So in my case, the overall trip is off, but I am still going so I can hit milage levels.

No one said humans act completely logical. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif




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TANSTAASFL - but if you work it right, FF miles comes pretty close.

good points tony. thanks for being another voice of reason....

now, as my travel agent says to me... "go away!" lol...

enjoy the emptier planes, the bonus miles, and the upgrades! be cautious, but go away!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by duxfan:
enjoy the emptier planes, the bonus miles, and the upgrades! be cautious, but go away!</font>

Well, I had to work out those odds just to reassure my father. I do fly a lot, and I said, look, dad, the odds of me being in a hijacked plane on that day were one in 2,500. Assuming that I fly 50 flights per year -- which is more than I do -- that means I can fly for 50 years before I get hijacked.

I'll be dead from natural causes before then =)

CFM --

You got it! Going to the Cote d'Azur for a little R & R, not to mention some good cuisine.

And, yes, I do know where England, AR is - half way between Pine Bluff and LR.

See you on AA 070?