Independence Air iClub - Let FlyI Die: When Do You Believe It Will Happen?

Any guesses when FlyI will call it quits?..It seems like a slow death..Ive heard these are the last days. :eek:

probably till jan 3 or 4. their holidays flights are selling for top dollar.

Any guesses when FlyI will call it quits?..It seems like a slow death..Ive heard these are the last days. :eek:

Independence Air has jammed up the runways at Dulles for over a year. They had hundreds of small regional jets with a dozen passengers waiting to take off slowing the Boeing 747-400 flight with 450 passengers who had to wait in the same line.

I would like fewer flights at Dulles but bigger planes. Independence just clogs up the runways!

Independence Air has jammed up the runways at Dulles for over a year. They had hundreds of small regional jets with a dozen passengers waiting to take off slowing the Boeing 747-400 flight with 450 passengers who had to wait in the same line.

I would like fewer flights at Dulles but bigger planes. Independence just clogs up the runways!

If you're going to make inflamatory statements, please try to be a little more accurate. I'm almost positive that the most RJ's they had was 88, far from the "hundreds" of planes you say they have. The flight schedules of the 747-400 with 450 people were so limited it is almost inconsequential. The carriers that operated them flew them into (and out of) IAD once or twice a day.

Besides, how do you fill a 744 at IAD? With connecting traffic. Fewer small planes in and out of IAD means were large planes in and out of IAD.

DCA's perimeter rule, incidentally, delayed the development of IAD as a major hub for a decade.... by limiting DCA to short flights it had more of those than it otherwise would have (holding slots at that slot-controlled airport constant), which meant fewer short flights at IAD, which meant not enough connecting traffic.

IAD as a strictly-O/D market doesn't support very many of those 744s!

Isn't more logical from an airtraffic control perspective to have fewer flights with larger planes? Independence Air had to many small planes all taking up valuable runway space.

Isn't more logical from an airtraffic control perspective to have fewer flights with larger planes? Independence Air had to many small planes all taking up valuable runway space.

Exactly - Independence had 300 daily departures at its peak. With 88 planes flying hour trips - that's a lot of daily turns.

Plus, DC is a massive O/D market and yes, 747's can be filled.

Not to mention, little, if any of Independence's traffic likely connected internatoinal. UX has that market covered. Without Independence they could fly bigger planes on some routes if the fares stay down.

Isn't more logical from an airtraffic control perspective to have fewer flights with larger planes?
Yes, but I'm sure we all know that airlines tend to schedule their flights based on market demand, not air traffic control logistics. Look at flight schedules bewteen DC-NY and SoCal-LAS and tell me those flights are going out completely full on profitable fares. Just because you have demand to fly 450 people between two cities does not mean you should put a 744 on the route. You may find that it will go out quite empty if it is trying to reaplace 4 737's.


Independence Air had to many small planes all taking up valuable runway space.

Please elaborate. The runways at IAD are over 10,000 ft long. The CRJ probably uses 1/4 of that for takeoff and maybe half of that for landing. That means there's a lot of runway left over.

The air traffic bottlenecks occur when the airlines schedule too many flights during a specific time period. There's a fixed (depending on weather) amount of flights that can arrive and depart in a given hour; scheduling more flights than the airport can handle in a given hour is what creates the bottlenecks.

IAD's only real peak crunch time is around 5pm. At any other time of day, the rest of the airport is a relative ghost town, meaning that the "runway space" is left empty and there is nobody to use it.

I have spend almost an hour on the taxiway at Dulles waiting for 10-15-20 small planes waiting to take off. To me if there were less flights but larger planes there would not be as long a line to taxi and hit the runway.

Independence Air has increased the number of take offs and landings at Dulles and caused delays for everyone.

Independence Air has increased the number of take offs and landings at Dulles and caused delays for everyone.Really? They operate fewer flights than when they were Atlantic Coast...

I have spend almost an hour on the taxiway at Dulles waiting for 10-15-20 small planes waiting to take off. To me if there were less flights but larger planes there would not be as long a line to taxi and hit the runway.

Independence Air has increased the number of take offs and landings at Dulles and caused delays for everyone.

Hogwash!

Increased air traffic has increased flight delays, not Independence Air.
Weather increases flight delays, not Independence Air.

"greenery" isn't citing any particular data to support his argument, so he's arguing from ignorance.

I wish the trolls from UAL would go back to their own board.

I have spend almost an hour on the taxiway at Dulles waiting for 10-15-20 small planes waiting to take off. To me if there were less flights but larger planes there would not be as long a line to taxi and hit the runway.

Independence Air has increased the number of take offs and landings at Dulles and caused delays for everyone.

greenery,

Apparently your knowledge of such matters is limited. Of those 10-15-20 small planes waiting to take off, how many of them were corporate jets? I'm betting half,

Second, the amount of time it takes to get from the gate to get off the ground is generally predictaqble. If, after an hour of sitting in line for takeoff, you arrived on time or close to it, the airline actually already knew there would be a long wait for departure.

I've always thought that at fortress hubs, airlines should do themselves a favor and stagger their departures a little better so they're not releasing 30 flights and once and then complaining it takes an hour to get the last flight off of the ground.

Really? They operate fewer flights than when they were Atlantic Coast...

ACA operated about 120-150 daily departures out of IAD and I think close to 180 out of ORD.

I have spend almost an hour on the taxiway at Dulles waiting for 10-15-20 small planes waiting to take off. To me if there were less flights but larger planes there would not be as long a line to taxi and hit the runway.

Independence Air has increased the number of take offs and landings at Dulles and caused delays for everyone.

Hate to break the news to you, but every hub now has just about as many small planes flying as they do mainline. Have you been to Newark lately. All I ever see landing there are Continental's Expressjets. They are also having the same problems at ORD with too many express flights operated by United and American. The sad news is that those little "puddle-jumpers" have become just as vital to airlines as the mainline flights, so get used to seeing a lot more little planes.

Hate to break the news to you, but every hub now has just about as many small planes flying as they do mainline. Have you been to Newark lately. All I ever see landing there are Continental's Expressjets. They are also having the same problems at ORD with too many express flights operated by United and American. The sad news is that those little "puddle-jumpers" have become just as vital to airlines as the mainline flights, so get used to seeing a lot more little planes.

Prior to the transition to FlyI, ACA operated more flights in and out of IAD than UA did. UA's flight schedule was controlled by UA. I would gather that not much has changed over there, and that UAX still has more daily flights than UA. Outside of some FL markets and BOS, I'm hard pressed to think of any other cities that UA serves with mainline jets up and down the east coast.

Everybody talks about the "expensive" RJ's and the "cheap" mainline jets, but the sad truth is that the airlines are forced to sell their mainline seats cheaply to get them filled.... Low CASM with empty seats doesn't work too well. Airlines MUST operate with some sort of schedule to attract pax... flying once a day with 200 seats is not equivalent to flying 4 times per day with 50 seats.

ACA operated about 120-150 daily departures out of IAD and I think close to 180 out of ORD.
Before DH shifted flying over to ORD it operated > 200 departures out of IAD.

Atlantic Coast was the largest carrier at Dulles before becoming FlyI.

Before DH shifted flying over to ORD it operated > 200 departures out of IAD.

Atlantic Coast was the largest carrier at Dulles before becoming FlyI.

I don't remember when the ORD flying started, but there was a major reduction in flights after 9/11. Prior to 9/11, there were heavy banks at 0900,1300,1700, and 2100, with 1700 being the most heavy. There were mini banks (half as many flights) at 1100,1500, and 1900. 9/11 brought the elimination of all minibanks. And you are correct; ACA operated more flights than UAL (or anybody else).

one thing that people don't realize is just because DH flies just as many flights as they did when they were with UA...UA was able to bring in their own carriers. so, DH just adds on to the departures out of IAD. and i flew out twice in the last week, and over half were DH planes. now the construction isn't helping the cause either.

one thing that people don't realize is just because DH flies just as many flights as they did when they were with UA...UA was able to bring in their own carriers. so, DH just adds on to the departures out of IAD. and i flew out twice in the last week, and over half were DH planes. now the construction isn't helping the cause either.

Over half of what were DH planes? FYI, if you flew out twice in the last week, DH has significantly decreased the amount of flights they have operated since they were ACA.

Over half of what were DH planes? FYI, if you flew out twice in the last week, DH has significantly decreased the amount of flights they have operated since they were ACA.

DHAST, do you work for indy, and if so in what capacity?

DHAST, do you work for indy, and if so in what capacity?

Used to work for DH, prior to the Indy days. I've had quality moments in both IAD and ORD. I've done ramp, lost luggage (cs function) and operations. (Un?)fortunately, I'm out of the airline biz now, but still employed in aviation. Can't say I miss the instability of the airline industry, although parts of it I do miss. If you want to work for the airlines, get it out of your system while you're young...

P.S., Having experienced the trials and tribulations of NRSA travel, you have no idea how much I love travelling on cheap coach tickets. They're great :)

one thing that people don't realize is just because DH flies just as many flights as they did when they were with UA...UA was able to bring in their own carriers. so, DH just adds on to the departures out of IAD.
Isn't it the new carriers at IAD that are adding to departures? ;)

How can DH be "adding to departures" when it's flying fewer flights than at any time in the past decade? :confused:

i'm not saying anything negative against DH. they bring low fares to iad, even though that won't be the case come the end of january. i just think they had a bad business model thinking people would flock to fly an RJ to ORD when you can get on a UA mainline for almost the same price since UA matched most of DH's fares. there are more problems at IAD than just more departures. iad is a joke of an airport, by being stuck in the 1960s but trying to operate in 2005.

iad is a joke of an airport, by being stuck in the 1960s but trying to operate in 2005.

Care to elaborate? There's more to the airport than the C&D terminals... I happen to think that away from the terminals, IAD doesn't do too bad of a job. Three ten thousand foot runways, with one cross wind runway. When IAD NEEDS the x-wind runway, they NEED it. The only real problem in that regard is that there is only one x-wind runway. There are plans to expand the airport, including adding a parallel x-wind runway and a third parallel North/South runway.

Care to elaborate? There's more to the airport than the C&D terminals... I happen to think that away from the terminals, IAD doesn't do too bad of a job. Three ten thousand foot runways, with one cross wind runway. When IAD NEEDS the x-wind runway, they NEED it. The only real problem in that regard is that there is only one x-wind runway. There are plans to expand the airport, including adding a parallel x-wind runway and a third parallel North/South runway.

how do i have to elaborate this? terminal A,C, D, G are terrible. parking is an absolute mess. i don't mind the moonbuggies, but come on. a train system should have been installed 10 years ago. the security lines? i mean, that's great about the runways. but an airport of that size, and with the destinations it serves, it'd be pretty sad if they didn't have any decent runways. sorry, but i am much happier living in arlington now so i can use DCA, which is far better than IAD.

how do i have to elaborate this? terminal A,C, D, G are terrible. parking is an absolute mess. i don't mind the moonbuggies, but come on. a train system should have been installed 10 years ago. the security lines? i mean, that's great about the runways. but an airport of that size, and with the destinations it serves, it'd be pretty sad if they didn't have any decent runways. sorry, but i am much happier living in arlington now so i can use DCA, which is far better than IAD.

Airport-wide wireless internet will be up n' running by August. It will be a multi-carrier system (T-Mobile, Cingular, Verizon, etc.)

how do i have to elaborate this? terminal A,C, D, G are terrible. parking is an absolute mess. i don't mind the moonbuggies, but come on. a train system should have been installed 10 years ago. the security lines? i mean, that's great about the runways. but an airport of that size, and with the destinations it serves, it'd be pretty sad if they didn't have any decent runways. sorry, but i am much happier living in arlington now so i can use DCA, which is far better than IAD.

Well, you said the airport sucks, and I gave some evidence to refute that :) I just wanted to know if your definition of the "airport" was the commercial airline passenger terminal. I will admit, that in all of my four years of using IAD as "home" that I have never actually parked in any of the publicly accessible parking lots, and have never had to stand in security lines with "the masses." Yeah, I had special privileges... If you define an airport as being more than a pax terminal (which it is), I can think of more where the infrastructure is subpar.

People want to blame the delays on FlyI... truth of the matter is that there is a very sizable number of corporate jets that add to the congestion of the airport. IAD never became slot controlled in the way that DCA was, so that is part of the problem.

What sort of status did you have at the time? Judging by your user name i am guessing you worked for indy. Anyway, as a customer I dont think about anything other than long wait lines and the layout to the customer, because i am the customer.


Well, you said the airport sucks, and I gave some evidence to refute that :) I just wanted to know if your definition of the "airport" was the commercial airline passenger terminal. I will admit, that in all of my four years of using IAD as "home" that I have never actually parked in any of the publicly accessible parking lots, and have never had to stand in security lines with "the masses." Yeah, I had special privileges... If you define an airport as being more than a pax terminal (which it is), I can think of more where the infrastructure is subpar.

People want to blame the delays on FlyI... truth of the matter is that there is a very sizable number of corporate jets that add to the congestion of the airport. IAD never became slot controlled in the way that DCA was, so that is part of the problem.

Airport-wide wireless internet will be up n' running by August. It will be a multi-carrier system (T-Mobile, Cingular, Verizon, etc.)

that is surely good news to hear. i'm a huge fan of wireless in airports. i'm hoping in 10 years when they might finally have all of the construction done, IAD might be plesent to fly into. but until then, i advice everyone i know to fly into DCA.

[QUOTE=sts603]
Not to mention, little, if any of Independence's traffic likely connected internatoinal. UX has that market covered. [QUOTE]

Actually I have met a large number of people on DH flights and abroad who flew DH to IAD from smaller cities like CRW, ROC etc to BA, AF, KE etc.

What sort of status did you have at the time? Judging by your user name i am guessing you worked for indy. Anyway, as a customer I dont think about anything other than long wait lines and the layout to the customer, because i am the customer.

I had two different employers when I lived "out that way" near IAD. One was ACA, and the other was another non-airline operater on the field. At ACA I used the airline employee parking lot, and my other employer had its own private lot with shuttle service to the main terminal. I was required to have a SIDA badge to work for both companies; the badge allowed me access to the terminal via the employee security line. Come to think of it, I used IAD once or twice before my employ there, but I never parked there and don't remember the lines being too atrocious. But those days (travel before working there) were five or six years ago, so I'm sure things have changed.

:eek: Any Guess what Date Independence Air will go out of Business?

Do you want indy to go under? Do you want ticket prices to go up? Do you want all those people to loose their jobs?

Its a matter of days I think..you didnt answer the question..The question was what date do you think Independence Air will Cease operation?

Anyone want to start a pool? Put in a dollar and pick a day, and whoever gets the right day wins the lot!

Anyone want to start a pool? Put in a dollar and pick a day, and whoever gets the right day wins the lot!

Is any of this really necessary? Everyone knows the company is in pretty bad shape. And many people expect that this company could go under. But there are thousands of jobs at stake here. I don't find it too amusing, and I doubt that their employees do either, that you are waging on when the employees could lose their jobs. Somehow, I don't think you would be laughing if you knew your job was at stake, and people were enjoying your misery. This may go back to elementary school, but I would remember the GOLDEN RULE if I were you.

Is any of this really necessary? Everyone knows the company is in pretty bad shape. And many people expect that this company could go under. But there are thousands of jobs at stake here. I don't find it too amusing, and I doubt that their employees do either, that you are waging on when the employees could lose their jobs. Somehow, I don't think you would be laughing if you knew your job was at stake, and people were enjoying your misery. This may go back to elementary school, but I would remember the GOLDEN RULE if I were you.


Thank You prhs1989. At least someone got my point. It's not right and just bad manners. To those who makes these bad or distasteful comments... How would you feel if you were in these employees situation?

Thank You prhs1989. At least someone got my point. It's not right and just bad manners. To those who makes these bad or distasteful comments... How would you feel if you were in these employees situation?

Thanks from one of the employees! It's a pretty said situation when you start the New Year off with the prospect of having to find a new job. I keep on hoping that we can pull through, but I'm prepared for the worst.

I think everyone feels for the employees, no one wants to see someone else lose their job. Lets keep in mind DH is already down about half its work force from layoffs. When we talk about when DH will have its last flight, its not as if we are wanting it to 'die.' In fact its the people in this forum who flew the airline the most and wanted to see it succeed. However, we can't just ignore something if we don't like it. That is not a way we can resolve problems. So, do I want to see indy shut its doors? No. Am I interested in hearing what other people think about the whole situation so i can make an informed decision as to whether or not I should make a reservation past January 4th or 5th? Absolutely.


Thanks from one of the employees! It's a pretty said situation when you start the New Year off with the prospect of having to find a new job. I keep on hoping that we can pull through, but I'm prepared for the worst.

I hate to say it, but today I booked tickets on UA from IAD to BOS for flights that I already have tickets on DH for.

Last week, FlyI downgraded the plane from an A319 to an RJ, completely filling the plane. As a result, my seat was downgraded to a last row window with no reclining seat. No overhead storage. Plane stuffed to the gills.

Since a big part of the reason I was flying with DH was their comfortable and clean planes, I decided that if things are getting too tough for them to fly those 319's then I won't tempt fate and miss my meetings. There are also staffing problems at BOS. There was no one at the DH flight counter and only one person at their gate. That person also had to run down to the tarmac and handle some paperwork to get the flight out. If you came to the gate late, there was no way to get onto the plane because the jetway door was closed. Normally, UA would at least have one person at the gate to handle stragglers. DH didn't have that person.

I know that people wanted DH to win and I count myself among those people, but I'm afraid that the death spiral has begun. My guess is that the Mesa people have looked at DH and decided that it would be easier to start from scratch than it would be to buy this company whole. Every day that passes that doesn't include an announcement of a deal is a day that the company becomes more deperate and that doesn't make you a strong negotiator.

It hurt me to buy those tickets but at least it was on my second favorite airline, UA. The flights on UA were close to 100% more expensive than DH for the exact same route, but at least they have been remarkably consistent on keeping the metal the same.

the ironic view here is that when DH started, UA was in bad shape. now UA is ready to blow out of BK and DH might not even be around to see that happen.

ILast week, FlyI downgraded the plane from an A319 to an RJ.


Just a guess... but I believe they probably downgraded the flight to an RJ because they had just enough to fill it (because people are afraid to book on Flyi) and there was probably no need to take the A319.

I wish my very best to the men and women that are FlyI and thank them for the valuable service and comfort they have provided me over the year - and will provide me until January 6, 2006.

Thank You prhs1989. At least someone got my point. It's not right and just bad manners. To those who makes these bad or distasteful comments... How would you feel if you were in these employees situation?

I woulda done what most of my pals over there did and found another job when the finding was good.