Independence Air iClub - Any Interest?

From what I understand bids were due on Dec 1. Does anyone know who/if anyone submitted bids. If so what where their terms? Thanks!

From what I understand bids were due on Dec 1. Does anyone know who/if anyone submitted bids. If so what where their terms? Thanks!

This just came in hot off the wire...the patient has a heartbeat....the prognosis is optimistic....

Press Release Source: FLYi, Inc.


FLYi, Inc. Announces Receipt of Expressions of Interest
Monday December 5, 5:28 pm ET


DULLES, Va., Dec. 5 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- FLYi, Inc. (Nasdaq: FLYIQ - News), parent of low-fare airline Independence Air announced today that it has received a number of expressions of interest from parties interested in participating in its court-supervised auction process. The various expressions of interest include proposals to acquire the company as a going concern, to invest in the company, and to acquire specific assets. The company is working with its financial advisors in consultation with its Creditors Committee to evaluate these expressions of interest and to consider alternatives that will maximize the value of the estate. As previously stated, the company believes that the value of its estate will be maximized in a going concern transaction, whether pursuant to an investment proposal or a going concern sale proposal. :)

So in short no one wants the whole company?

Press Release Source: FLYi, Inc.


FLYi, Inc. Announces Receipt of Expressions of Interest
Monday December 5, 5:28 pm ET


DULLES, Va., Dec. 5 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- FLYi, Inc. (Nasdaq: FLYIQ - News), parent of low-fare airline Independence Air announced today that it has received a number of expressions of interest from parties interested in participating in its court-supervised auction process. The various expressions of interest include proposals to acquire the company as a going concern, to invest in the company, and to acquire specific assets. The company is working with its financial advisors in consultation with its Creditors Committee to evaluate these expressions of interest and to consider alternatives that will maximize the value of the estate. As previously stated, the company believes that the value of its estate will be maximized in a going concern transaction, whether pursuant to an investment proposal or a going concern sale proposal. :)

So in short no one wants the whole company?

From the press release....

"include proposals to acquire the company as a going concern"

and they restate that that is what they want to do....

i don't see flyi lasting that much longer. i don't think they have much common sense in their route network. starting service to san diego and then cancelling it? i believe at one time they had 5 roundtrips to knoxville. crjs to ORD? granted they've upgraded that route, but...i just don't see this company lasting past january.

i don't see flyi lasting that much longer. i don't think they have much common sense in their route network. starting service to san diego and then cancelling it?

I hope that they can make it. Speaking of routes though what's the frequency going out to Vegas and down to San Juan?

It's down to crunch time.

I do a lot of flying out of CAE (Columbia, SC) on US Air. There have to be at least 40 Independence jets permanently parked at the airport. Kinda sad really.

It is one of those things where you are sad in the sense that crews (air and ground) thought it would work. However Independence got what was coming to them. They were always having sales, have a bad frequent flyer program, no elite status, 600 flights a day at one point. Honestly, at this point I hope they make it long enough so I can use my iClub award and after that I dont care.

I do a lot of flying out of CAE (Columbia, SC) on US Air. There have to be at least 40 Independence jets permanently parked at the airport. Kinda sad really.

It is one of those things where you are sad in the sense that crews (air and ground) thought it would work. However Independence got what was coming to them. They were always having sales, have a bad frequent flyer program, no elite status, 600 flights a day at one point. Honestly, at this point I hope they make it long enough so I can use my iClub award and after that I dont care.

I don't understand why you think DH is "getting what's coming to them." Having sales isn't bad (WN does it all of the time), WN never offered elite status, 600 flights a day on its face is not excessive, and when it comes down to it, if there is no F class and seats are cheap enough, who cares about elite status?

What they're getting is the result of selling their product for less than the cost of producing it. Nothing more, nothing less. Their original business plan called for operating at a loss for at least a year. Excessive fuel prices in the last few quarters just about killed any chance they had to wait it out until the airbii arrived. That *was* their plan. Hang on until they got the airbii, then shed a bunch of RJ's. The RJ thing was a hold-them-over measure until the airbii came, but since the high fuel prices accelerated their spending, they couldn't hold on. BTW, at the prices DH was selling their tix, did they really need a FF program?

WN never offered elite statusYes, they do. It's called Companion Pass.

What they're getting is the result of selling their product for less than the cost of producing it. Nothing more, nothing less. Which is a function of the market, they couldn't draw fares high enough given their cost structure. A short-haul high-frequency RJ carrier is simply not a low-cost carrier. Then they compounded the problem with the capacity that they you isn't crazy on its face (volume of flights at the get-go unsupported by either existing market or marketing outside of DC). And they didn't list flights in GDS' either, a cost-saving move but one which killed their traffic too.

Their original business plan called for operating at a loss for at least a year. And the original business plan was a silly one, so...

Excessive fuel prices in the last few quarters just about killed any chance they had to wait it out until the airbii arrived. Blaming fuel costs is disingenuous. Their break-even load factor in 2Q was 107%. They would have lost $$$ if fuel was free.

If their 'plan' was to lose $$$ until Airbus aircraft arrived, then management deployed their assets poorly. They'd have been better off grounding the company until they could acquire different aircraft, or starting a separate new company to sell the RJs to and operate as a feeder carrier with them. And they should have gone out into the market and acquired different aircraft on a faster timeline, even if they weren't new from the factory.

Saying they didn't have enough cash to burn through in order to put their new plan into effect is silly.

Whatever the issues with the biz plan, Flyi is/was a refreshing alternative. I became a loyal flyer because the staff, service and flexiblity. $35 change fee is a heck of a lot better than the $100 everywhere else.

I booked yesterday on UA for trip this weekend and tried to cancel since I needed to fly into a different city and noticed Flyi offered another sale (which United matched.) I was literally a minute over the 24hour cancel/full refund and they wouldn't give in.

The change policies worked for me on Flyi.

I agree FLYi was a very pleasant alternative to UA at IAD.

No question I liked FlyI's change policies.

Excessive fuel prices in the last few quarters just about killed any chance they had to wait it out until the airbii arrived.

If the plural of "bus" is "buses", why is the plural of "airbus" "airbii"?

Actually, the plural of Airbus is Airbus.

There are things we all liked from flyI. As a general statement if you were forceful with your request to make changes or honor discounts they did it. I have eve showed up at white planes for Stewart flights and they don't care. This is nice but their over all biz doesn't work. Using 50 seat RJs to fly 10 people with 1,000,000 daily flights to buffalo isn't a viable business. There is something to learn from Indy that is forgotten in the industry, the customer is always right, honor their reasonable requests. At the same time the other thing to learn is that everything else about indy doesn't work as a viable business.

There are things we all liked from flyI. As a general statement if you were forceful with your request to make changes or honor discounts they did it. I have eve showed up at white planes for Stewart flights and they don't care. This is nice but their over all biz doesn't work. Using 50 seat RJs to fly 10 people with 1,000,000 daily flights to buffalo isn't a viable business. There is something to learn from Indy that is forgotten in the industry, the customer is always right, honor their reasonable requests. At the same time the other thing to learn is that everything else about indy doesn't work as a viable business.

So on the one hand you're saying it was a great way to do business in that they honored your cheap fares, changed tickets for next to nothing, or gave you way too many discounts, and on the other, you're saying their business plan is a failure? From my experience as an industry "insider," the customer is far from always right. Sometimes very far. Besides, if you're selling your product for less than it costs to produce it, Why would you bend over backwards to make your bottom tier fliers happy?

IMHO, you either have cheap fares and nickel and dime your customers, or you charge a higher "base" rate and then forgo a lot of additional fees. Unfortunately, the revenue and marketing climate being the way it is, the cheap fare with nickel and dime fees is becoming the most popular way to do business.

Why are they parked THERE?

Yes, they do. It's called Companion Pass.


See below.

and when it comes down to it, if there is no F class and seats are cheap enough, who cares about elite status?



Elite status is far more than F class upgrades. It's about priority boarding, bonus FF miles, priority luggage handling, a faster phone number, faster check-in and sometimes, that special exception. WN Companion Pass just makes traveling with a companion cheaper. It offers none of that.

No matter what the price, I'm uninterested in an airline which isn't going to recognize my frequent flier status with perks. Cheaper companion fares aren't a perk.

Elite status is far more than F class upgrades. It's about priority boarding, bonus FF miles, priority luggage handling, a faster phone number, faster check-in and sometimes, that special exception. WN Companion Pass just makes traveling with a companion cheaper. It offers none of that.

No matter what the price, I'm uninterested in an airline which isn't going to recognize my frequent flier status with perks. Cheaper companion fares aren't a perk.


If you are uninterested in the airline then why are you on this board?

I agree, and flyi is cutting back on their special executions. Most elite status perks don't cost the airline extra, just like early morning delivery with FedEx. FedEx charges more if you want your package delivered before 10:30 am and a whole lot extra for 8:30 am. Before they did this they just delivered a standard overnight all day long. Airlines can do the same thing like which bag appears on the carousel first or who gets on the plane first. It doesn't cost anything extra to change the boarding order but it is a reward frequent flyer's enjoy and the occasional traveler really don't notice. Waiting an extra 5-15 minutes for a bag three times a year isn't that bad, but when you do it every week its a drag. First class cabins cost more and need to be installed. Creating a simple Elite status is not, here is an sample of the benefits they could offer:
20% off fairs (they give it away in so many places so lets make it an elite perk)
exit row/bulk head priority (costs the airline $0.00)
priority security line at dulles (the line there is a ..... and takes forever)
priority baggage (FlyI use to have those tags that read iClub Memember and put 'priority' tags on late arivals, lets bring that back for frequent flyers)
priority phone line (connect them with an a manager in india rather than a regular rep, this shouldn't cost more then a few extra cents a minute, plus elite calls are more complex as a general rule, they are not calling to get seat assignments or with basic questions. So odds are they will need to speak with a manager anyway)
points that don't expire (i cant tell you how many times i was about to earn a reward only to have 500 points expire with in a week of my next flight, I understand this is a liability for the airline, but everyone else does it)

eventually they could include an Independence Lounge or something.

what does everyone else think?

how about its called complete independence


Elite status is far more than F class upgrades. It's about priority boarding, bonus FF miles, priority luggage handling, a faster phone number, faster check-in and sometimes, that special exception. WN Companion Pass just makes traveling with a companion cheaper. It offers none of that.

No matter what the price, I'm uninterested in an airline which isn't going to recognize my frequent flier status with perks. Cheaper companion fares aren't a perk.

Elite status is far more than F class upgrades. It's about priority boarding, bonus FF miles, priority luggage handling, a faster phone number, faster check-in and sometimes, that special exception. WN Companion Pass just makes traveling with a companion cheaper. It offers none of that.

No matter what the price, I'm uninterested in an airline which isn't going to recognize my frequent flier status with perks. Cheaper companion fares aren't a perk.

I know elite status is more than F class upgrades, but check over on the boards of airlines that offer unlimited free domestic upgrades... the % of times one gets upgraded seems to be a deal breaker with airline loyalty. That and "too many elites, no preboard today" seem to be the biggest complaints.

As far as WN's companion pass, yeah, I think it is useful only to a fairly small contingent of their client base. Let's face it, most people who earn elite status aren't doing it on personal travel. Their program is pretty much no different than offering quadruple bonus miles/credits (enough so you can actually get a few tickets for somebody else) and then claiming they have a competitive elite program.

Unforunately for me, I actually do make my elite status on 100% personal travel (or personally paid with no reimbursement) and therefore must be price discriminant. For that reason, I won't fly CO on their 50% EQM on cheap fares, and wouldn't stick with a particular airline or alliance if their fares were consistently higher than the competition without a corresponding increase in benefits.

True, but lets remember a beer at the Hilton is $4, but the bar is always busy. Airlines need biz travelers to make money. Lets face it, if the average traveler has status on an airline they are always booking on that airline for biz even if it costs more. DH did not cater to the biz market well enough. Rather than calling comedians and asking them to do their safety announcements they should, be holding focus groups to find how they can cater to biz travelers. In addition, there are 535 members of congress who need to get home every weekend, why not have a gov rate or program, and that's not counting staff? They could run some promo, if congress runs late we will automatically rebook you on the next available flight for a flat fee? Something creative like that.


I know elite status is more than F class upgrades, but check over on the boards of airlines that offer unlimited free domestic upgrades... the % of times one gets upgraded seems to be a deal breaker with airline loyalty. That and "too many elites, no preboard today" seem to be the biggest complaints.

As far as WN's companion pass, yeah, I think it is useful only to a fairly small contingent of their client base. Let's face it, most people who earn elite status aren't doing it on personal travel. Their program is pretty much no different than offering quadruple bonus miles/credits (enough so you can actually get a few tickets for somebody else) and then claiming they have a competitive elite program.

Unforunately for me, I actually do make my elite status on 100% personal travel (or personally paid with no reimbursement) and therefore must be price discriminant. For that reason, I won't fly CO on their 50% EQM on cheap fares, and wouldn't stick with a particular airline or alliance if their fares were consistently higher than the competition without a corresponding increase in benefits.

priority security line at dulles (the line there is a ..... and takes forever)

If United can't get their FF's a priority security line, what makes you think that DH can?


priority phone line (connect them with an a manager in india rather than a regular rep, this shouldn't cost more then a few extra cents a minute, plus elite calls are more complex as a general rule, they are not calling to get seat assignments or with basic questions. So odds are they will need to speak with a manager anyway)

How many people really use the phone anymore? With a good enough website, the phone is dead. At NW, if I could do a "customer first" cancellation on the web, I would never call their res desk anymore. FlyI doesn't have any complicated codeshares, international flights, or upgrade issues that necessitate calling an agent.


points that don't expire (i cant tell you how many times i was about to earn a reward only to have 500 points expire with in a week of my next flight, I understand this is a liability for the airline, but everyone else does it)

Wrong. Everybody else DOES NOT have a non-expiring miles/points program. B6 and FL have an expiration period of one year, and WN has had an expiration ever since its inception. Yes, they are relaxing their rules a bit, but they will still have an expiration period.

I also feel that allowing people to hoard miles contributes to the difficulty of redeeming them -- if you have a huge liability, you have to limit your exposure. By decreasing your liability (expiring points/miles) you can increase your exposure. IOW, if point never expire, you risk giving away seats that won't make money. By having points that expire, the only people who are occupying "free" seats are those that are flying enough to generate a free ticket anyway.


eventually they could include an Independence Lounge or something.

When they operated as ACA for United, they had a little lounge in the A concourse. Originally, it was only marketed/open to those who flew ACA itself quite frequently, without regard to their status on UA. Over time, it also became open to 1K's or something like that.

Ok,
maby I am not very good at designing a program, but I am sure they can find something to give out. As for the security line, if all the airlines asked for it do you think they would give in?



If United can't get their FF's a priority security line, what makes you think that DH can?


How many people really use the phone anymore? With a good enough website, the phone is dead. At NW, if I could do a "customer first" cancellation on the web, I would never call their res desk anymore. FlyI doesn't have any complicated codeshares, international flights, or upgrade issues that necessitate calling an agent.


Wrong. Everybody else DOES NOT have a non-expiring miles/points program. B6 and FL have an expiration period of one year, and WN has had an expiration ever since its inception. Yes, they are relaxing their rules a bit, but they will still have an expiration period.

I also feel that allowing people to hoard miles contributes to the difficulty of redeeming them -- if you have a huge liability, you have to limit your exposure. By decreasing your liability (expiring points/miles) you can increase your exposure. IOW, if point never expire, you risk giving away seats that won't make money. By having points that expire, the only people who are occupying "free" seats are those that are flying enough to generate a free ticket anyway.


When they operated as ACA for United, they had a little lounge in the A concourse. Originally, it was only marketed/open to those who flew ACA itself quite frequently, without regard to their status on UA. Over time, it also became open to 1K's or something like that.

True, but lets remember a beer at the Hilton is $4, but the bar is always busy. $4 beers aren't that outrageous. Are you old enough to drink?

Airlines need biz travelers to make money. Lets face it, if the average traveler has status on an airline they are always booking on that airline for biz even if it costs more. DH did not cater to the biz market well enough.
I don't really think WN catered to the biz market either (fly x-c with six stops!) but they did something right, as they do have a strong biz clientele in certain markets. What's you definition of "catering to the biz market well enough?" We have B6 and FL who are strong competitors, but I don't see any overt signs of biz clientele catering. What you need are people willing to pay higher fare premiums. How to get them to do it is another story. Plats on NW, get GUARANTEED upgrades to F on any fare. *That* may convince me to pay more for an NW ticket if the prices isn't insanely higher.
In addition, there are 535 members of congress who need to get home every weekend, why not have a gov rate or program, and that's not counting staff? They could run some promo, if congress runs late we will automatically rebook you on the next available flight for a flat fee? Something creative like that. Haha. I'm too lazy to look up DH's route network now, but they serve nowhere near that many home airports of congressional members and their staff. The government already has contracted rates for specific routes established with other carriers, namely those with F class. I don't see any incentive for DH to offer congressional members and staffs anything that they can't offer the general public. P.S., Congress is IN DC, which is much, much closer to DCA than IAD.

Ok,
maby I am not very good at designing a program, but I am sure they can find something to give out. As for the security line, if all the airlines asked for it do you think they would give in?

I don't know what the deal is with IAD and elite lines. ATL, with a similar terminal configuration, has them. The last few years I've used IAD, I've used the only elite line in the house. THAT was a great perk.

Well there is allways the "my flight lives in 5 minutes i can't wait in this line" method. Anyway does anyone now if DCA has an elite line?

I don't know what the deal is with IAD and elite lines. ATL, with a similar terminal configuration, has them. The last few years I've used IAD, I've used the only elite line in the house. THAT was a great perk.

Well there is allways the "my flight lives in 5 minutes i can't wait in this line" method. Anyway does anyone know if DCA has an elite line?

Which terminal/pier? DCA has four different ones. Terminal A which I use has one.

Correct me if i am run both both IAD and DCA are run by the DC transit authority. So if they could get an elite line at one airport why not another?

Which terminal/pier? DCA has four different ones. Terminal A which I use has one.

Correct me if i am run both both IAD and DCA are run by the DC transit authority. So if they could get an elite line at one airport why not another?

A little too much to drink when you wrote that ? :) Technically, you're wrong :) It's not the DC transit authority that runs the airport, the transit authority runs the subway and bus system in the city, with other regions running other bus systems.

DCA/IAD are run by the Metropolitan Washington Airport Authority (MWAA). Reference the above posts in this thread and over on the various UA threads on the issue -- nobody seems to know why there are no elite lines at IAD. I'm not sure if the B/C piers at DCA have elite lines, but I know NW pretty much controls the A terminal at DCA. But like I said, nobody here knows the answer to that question, so asking about it is futile.

Well I haven't had too much when I wrote that, but I'll be going to San Juan on DH tomorrow and while I am there I will not be posting because I will be in a constant intoxicated state.

A little too much to drink when you wrote that ? :) Technically, you're wrong :) It's not the DC transit authority that runs the airport, the transit authority runs the subway and bus system in the city, with other regions running other bus systems.

DCA/IAD are run by the Metropolitan Washington Airport Authority (MWAA). Reference the above posts in this thread and over on the various UA threads on the issue -- nobody seems to know why there are no elite lines at IAD. I'm not sure if the B/C piers at DCA have elite lines, but I know NW pretty much controls the A terminal at DCA. But like I said, nobody here knows the answer to that question, so asking about it is futile.

Well there is allways the "my flight lives in 5 minutes i can't wait in this line" method. Anyway does anyone now if DCA has an elite line?

They do for US Airways at least. Only been there once and can't comment about other terminals.

If you are uninterested in the airline then why are you on this board?

Education in life means expanded your horizones to things you aren't life/aren't interested in.

I know elite status is more than F class upgrades, but check over on the boards of airlines that offer unlimited free domestic upgrades... the % of times one gets upgraded seems to be a deal breaker with airline loyalty. That and "too many elites, no preboard today" seem to be the biggest complaints.

.

In reality though - most fliers, especially mid and top tier fliers get upgraded on most routes. There are a group of fliers which complain since they fly those routes with enormous numbers of elite fliers and fly at the busiest business traveler times.

My signiature shows my upgrade success in the past year on US Airways but it's basically about 90% and most of that time was spent at the lowest level of elite, Silver. Yes, I tried to schedule flights with bigger F cabins and I don't fly the busiest of business routes but have been upgrade into and out of LGA as a Silver on sold out flights, etc.

My United Premier (also lowest level) mother is constantly upgraded on ORD-PHL - a prime business route.

In reality though - most fliers, especially mid and top tier fliers get upgraded on most routes. There are a group of fliers which complain since they fly those routes with enormous numbers of elite fliers and fly at the busiest business traveler times.

My signiature shows my upgrade success in the past year on US Airways but it's basically about 90% and most of that time was spent at the lowest level of elite, Silver. Yes, I tried to schedule flights with bigger F cabins and I don't fly the busiest of business routes but have been upgrade into and out of LGA as a Silver on sold out flights, etc.

My United Premier (also lowest level) mother is constantly upgraded on ORD-PHL - a prime business route.

Well, you have to understand that I was referring to NW's program specifically, and not necessarily UA/US or anybody else. See, NW's program gives free upgrades to EVERYBDOY. Are you really going to pop TWO 500-milers to upgrade ORD-PHL or anything just over an hour in flight? I wouldn't.

NW west coast elites have it tough. With the shortest one way flight being 1500 miles (out of LAX anyway), tack on a connection and you have 500 miles minimums, you've got a 4000 mile round trip flight. Do it through DTW and you have 5000 miles roundtrip. At those rates, just 5-6 trips makes one a silver. That means if you actually do a decent amount of flying, you hit top tier without too much effort. I made PLAT this year on, oh, 13 domestic roundtrips.

So, I submit that your "small group" is actually quite large on the west coast. If you live on the west coast and never get upgraded, you won't be too happy. I guess that the real reality is that if you live in a tough market, you could care less about "everbody else's" luck. It's easy to suck it up if you visit a tough market and say "it's tough" but when you base there it gets annoying. I'm about 50/50 this year as a silver on my LA trips. Incidentally, I have as difficult of time upgrading my MKE-HUB trips as I do LAX-HUB.

When they operated as ACA for United, they had a little lounge in the A concourse. Originally, it was only marketed/open to those who flew ACA itself quite frequently, without regard to their status on UA. Over time, it also became open to 1K's or something like that.

And it had no internet connections or any amenities - it was like watching a bad TV in a bar that only you went to.