Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners) - Ridiculous fees: ca. €210 for FRA-DXB-FRA award ticket

Why is it called a free flight award if LH charges a ridiculous amount of ca. €210 ( :mad: !) for a FRA-MUC-DXB-MUC-FRA business class award ticket? Out of this, €160 is a LH surcharge for security and fuel surcharges. Absolutely ridiculous.

Why is it called a free flight award if LH charges a ridiculous amount of ca. €210 ( :mad: !) for a FRA-MUC-DXB-MUC-FRA business class award ticket? Out of this, €160 is a LH surcharge for security and fuel surcharges. Absolutely ridiculous.

Absolutely agree. Appears this is LH's new way of making bucks off award tix by inflating whatever surcharge they can add to the fees portion. However, routing through MUC makes things even worse. Do you have to go via MUC or could you try for the FRA-DXB direct service (availability?). Should shave off 30-40 euros IIRC though not sure. Having FRA and MUC in your itin means having two high cost airports regarding fees etc. Just a thought.

Cheers ...

According to a recent press release by the World`s leading airline AF/KL they have hedged 85 % of their fuel for 2005 at $ 38 per barrel, but are nevertheless charging about the same LH does, also on award tix.

We are actually paying the hedging costs for the upcoming years with our money right now, but I am maybe not even flying in the upcoming years and if the fuel for 05 is hedged well below the recent counter price, I do not necassarily see any reason to pay a fuel surcharge at the moment at all for flights within the next weeks...

I started a topic dealing with the question, if fuel surcharges should be charged at all on what is supposed to be a free ticket a few weeks ago here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466359

Should shave off 30-40 euros IIRC though not sure. Having FRA and MUC in your itin means having two high cost airports regarding fees etc. Just a thought.

Cheers ...


Yes, it is actually Euro 50 less if you would fly FRA-DBX-FRA.

However, this surchage is not only on the free award tickets. They same amount of money is charged to all regular tickets. (This should be just a statement not an excuse for this high cost.)

Anyway, as a US resident I would have to pay only a surcharge of $ 215 (around Euro 185) for the same flights FRA-MUC-DBX and return........

In general, the LH prices are cheaper, when you have a US residence......

Just as a comparison point, I used an award ticket earlier this year for SEA-ORD-FRA-DXB & return, and IIRC the total fees were around $100. It was a UA award with the FRA-DXB-FRA on LH. So either the fees have gone up substantially or the Europe origin adds a lot of fees (or maybe a combination of both).

Wow, that is ridiculous!! A fuel surcharge is essentially part of the fare of a ticket. I had no idea carriers did this. A fuel surcharge simply does not belong on award tickets, period. I guess this is one and maybe only one area where US carriers are better than non-US carriers. As far as I know, no US carrier charges the fuel surcharge on FF award tickets. You may want to use United to collect and redeem your LH flights in the future!

Why is it called a free flight award if LH charges a ridiculous amount of ca. €210 ( :mad: !) for a FRA-MUC-DXB-MUC-FRA business class award ticket? Out of this, €160 is a LH surcharge for security and fuel surcharges. Absolutely ridiculous.e to go via MUC or could you try for the FRA-DXB direct service (availability?).Hey CalFlyer, when is your trip to the UAE? I have an award to DXB too(but in FC) ;)
FRA-DXB-MUC-FRA costs me 180euro taxes and surcharges. :td:

Do you have to go via MUC or could you try for the FRA-DXB direct service (availability?).The DXB-FRA flight departs at 2am, the MUC flight at 9am. So I prefer to go via MUC because I'm on vacation. :cool:

Hey CalFlyer, when is your trip to the UAE? I have an award to DXB too(but in FC) ;)
FRA-DXB-MUC-FRA costs me 180euro taxes and surcharges. :td:

The DXB-FRA flight departs at 2am, the MUC flight at 9am. So I prefer to go via MUC because I'm on vacation. :cool:

Would DXB-FRA be better then? You leave for the airport after a nice evening, vs waking up at 6am

Cheers

I was just charged € 234 for a LHR-MUC-DEL-MUC-LHR award in F. Not too chuffed about it, but can't really avoid it.

Plus I got stung for the additional 2.75% that Amex charged to convert the € into £, as LH decided to bill me in € for a ex UK ticket and for a UK based member. :confused: :(

I was just charged € 234 for a LHR-MUC-DEL-MUC-LHR award in F. Not too chuffed about it, but can't really avoid it.

Plus I got stung for the additional 2.75% that Amex charged to convert the € into £, as LH decided to bill me in € for a ex UK ticket and for a UK based member. :confused: :(

My German AMEX charges only 1.5%, and all the tickets I buy from lufthansa.co.uk are charged in pounds. I'd really like them to charge me in EUR for them, but they don't. :(

My German AMEX charges only 1.5%, and all the tickets I buy from lufthansa.co.uk are charged in pounds. I'd really like them to charge me in EUR for them, but they don't. :(
Yup, every ticket I have previously bought (whether on lufthansa.co.uk or on the telephone) has always been charged in £. Even award tickets.

This is the first time they charged in €. Infact when I booked the award online it showed taxes of £ 157. When the cc bill arrived, it showed a charge from LH of € 234 (converted to £ 165 by Amex). :(

Just as a comparison point, I used an award ticket earlier this year for SEA-ORD-FRA-DXB & return, and IIRC the total fees were around $100. It was a UA award with the FRA-DXB-FRA on LH. So either the fees have gone up substantially or the Europe origin adds a lot of fees (or maybe a combination of both).
U.S. carriers also charge fuel surcharges, but they include them in the fare. At first sight, that should make no difference for a German customer because we have a law called "Endpreisverordnung" which requires to always disclose the total cost of a product to the consumer. But carriers like LH benefit from their deceptive practice for two reasons:

1. Many consumer websites and price comparison tools for travel agents work in two steps and compare net fares first. This makes LH, AF, and the like look cheaper at first sight. A very ridiculous example of this is SQ's latest offer for FRA-JFK: 139 EUR fare plus 165 EUR "taxes" plus TSC. So, the cost of the product is way less than its fees. Strange, isn't it? But when you just compare the net prices SQ looks much cheaper than CO or DL, whereas the total may be roughly the same. That's why they do it.

2. Airlines make a significant amount of money from award tickets. I do mean this. Mind you that they only give you a "free" seat on a flight which they predict won't go out full. Their cost of giving this seat to you is close to zero, and by hitting it with the fuel surcharge they manage to even get revenue out of it. Pretty smart. Any lawyer out there who feels like challenging them in court for this?

Just a historical note: the whole thing started many years back, long before fuel surcharges were introduced. In the mid-nineties, most people booked through travel agents who received commissions which were a percentage of the fare paid. That fare included everything needed to fly a plane. The crew, fuel, meals, and airport charges. Then some smart person came up with the brillant idea to give the customer more "transparency" as they call it. Airlines started to move airport charges from the fare to the tax box, a place where they certainly do not belong. But this reduced the amount of travel agency commissions significantly because they were calculated on the base fare. Over the years, the airlines came up with more and more parts of their normal operating costs that they suddenly declared "taxes". Commissions are history, but the deceptive practice still works pretty well for the airlines. Sorry for the rant...

First, consumer protection has been deteriorating in Germany for some time now. They're capable of protecting wasps', owls', and birds' nests, but they look away from the deceptive practices of airlines, ringtone services, SMS subscriptions, and the like.

Second, the majority of LH's customers earned their miles off of someone else's money, so to speak, so paying for the award tickets seems to be no problem for them. I'm further unconvinced of Germany's economic plight. Yes, the poor are getting poorer, but the rich are getting richer. And most of the the rich don't biatch about LH's price structure. Even if they do, they still put up with it.

First, consumer protection has been deteriorating in Germany for some time now. They're capable of protecting wasps', owls', and birds' nests, but they look away from the deceptive practices of airlines, ringtone services, SMS subscriptions, and the like.

I agree. I think consumer protection associations should look much more into this.

I have the same problem as the original poster - LH wants about € 200 per person in "taxes and fees" for a business award ticket MUC-DXB-(FRA)-MUC. That just seems way high...one could almost buy a KLM eco ticket for that price.

Second, the majority of LH's customers earned their miles off of someone else's money, so to speak, so paying for the award tickets seems to be no problem for them.

I'd refine your analysis a bit, although I agree with the direction.

My point is that the vast majority (those 10 million or so) of MM customers did not earn their miles off of someone else's money... They don't book award flights for themselves and their families every week/month or so. They work hard for their money. Like Donna Summer and worse. They don't even know what FT is. They have paid out of their pockets and are now stoically looking forward with anticipation to the moment that they will (at last) be able to redeem those hard-earned 15,000-20,000 miles for an intraeuropean trip. That will not happen many times in their "frequent flyer" frenzy, the latter not lasting for a long time either.
And it is certainly terminated when (if ever) they finally come to realize the sad truth, namely that the surcharges exceed the amount they'd need to pay for a RTF ticket. Let alone that most of the times those miles will ingloriously expire.

Bottomline: The vast majority of MM customers will never complain just b/c they are exposed to the consequences of these surcharges only "once" or "twice", not because somebody else pays.
And we witness this rather paradoxical phenomenon, i.e., one-shot relationships within a "loyalty" program/product.
Loyalty serves the airline. Only.

Just my two cents,
A.

andre1970, good analysis, I agree with you - and LH takes advantage of that.

Bottomline: The vast majority of MM customers will never complain just b/c they are exposed to the consequences of these surcharges only "once" or "twice", not because somebody else pays.

Absolutely. And, what I think is worse, these customers end up thinking that they were the idiots somehow, that they should have known better, rather than coming to the realization that the airline has basically pilfered value from them. Yes, they could have read all the fine print, but as you say andre1970, they work hard and have lives.

I sometimes wonder how many husbands or wives have had to explain to their mate how they goofed up and their miles are worth significantly less than implied or even worthless due to expiration.

Would DXB-FRA be better then? You leave for the airport after a nice evening, vs waking up at 6am

Cheers

Excellent suggestion ^ . Sounds like a good plan to me...

Why is it called a free flight award if LH charges a ridiculous amount of ca. €210 ( :mad: !) for a FRA-MUC-DXB-MUC-FRA business class award ticket? Out of this, €160 is a LH surcharge for security and fuel surcharges. Absolutely ridiculous.

CalFlyer, such things happen because because people don't change flying habits. As long as we are loyal to such airlines, they play the game with us :D

CalFlyer, such things happen because because people don't change flying habits. As long as we are loyal to such airlines, they play the game with us :D
They do ... as far as they can. But once your life gets so interwoven with
loyality programs as ours did, it is far from easy to abandon the sinking ship.

And historically, M&L used to be an ok to good program (compared to what
Qantass or most Asian carriers offer). And it is only since the Mayrhuber curse
struck LH that the beautiful bird turned into the vulture it is today.
Under Weber, it was easy to forgive LH its idiosyncratic flaws (horrible European
meals if any, rude crews in all but the F cabin, abusive and badly trained lounge
wardens), as the overall performance was enjoyable, repeatable, and dependable.

So basically, I don't think that we are to be blamed. Not more than any people
who end up with a dreadful president, leader, chancelor, prime minister...
We don't make the choices here.

...easy to forgive LH its idiosyncratic flaws (horrible European
meals if any, rude crews in all but the F cabin, abusive and badly trained lounge wardens)...

...dreadful president, leader, chancelor, prime minister...


Here we go again: Weero's never-ending divorce with LH... Lighten up! :D

Here we go again: Weero's never-ending divorce with LH... Lighten up! :D
:D What's the german for "final settlement"? :D

:D What's the german for "final settlement"? :D

Just wait for the custody battle...

Hey guys,

thank you very much for your kind replies. I feel I am not the only one who considers these fees simply inappropriate.

I know that complaining typically does not take you anywhere (except for providing your soul with some relief). But still, I will not leave this issue uncommented. I will ask Lufthansa for a written explanation how they justify these exorbitant fees on an award ticket. I am confident they will send me an answer. I am a HON, and they typically listen.

I will keep you posted on any reply I receive.

Thanks, CalFlyer! ^

Just as a comparison point, I used an award ticket earlier this year for SEA-ORD-FRA-DXB & return, and IIRC the total fees were around $100. It was a UA award with the FRA-DXB-FRA on LH. So either the fees have gone up substantially or the Europe origin adds a lot of fees (or maybe a combination of both).

... or the contracts don't permit LH to charge the fuel surhcarge on UA-issued awards on the same LH flights. At least that is how it works with a few other airlines. :)

I'd refine your analysis a bit, although I agree with the direction.

And we witness this rather paradoxical phenomenon, i.e., one-shot relationships within a "loyalty" program/product.
Loyalty serves the airline. Only.

A.

You are right on the money. Happy to cash-in my FlySmart and move on to the Friendly Skies

Hey guys,

thank you very much for your kind replies. I feel I am not the only one who considers these fees simply inappropriate.

I know that complaining typically does not take you anywhere (except for providing your soul with some relief). But still, I will not leave this issue uncommented. I will ask Lufthansa for a written explanation how they justify these exorbitant fees on an award ticket. I am confident they will send me an answer. I am a HON, and they typically listen.

I will keep you posted on any reply I receive.

I did the same recently twice on this topic - and received a call back from LH - a friendly Lady who was clearly at unease of needing to feed the corporate answer, but herself being ware that it is not plausible - meaning there is no real justification - but current "legal" grounds permit LH to get away with these exorbiant fees. Surely they blame a lot on fees LH has to pay to third parties.

Highlight was the € 40 LH adds on to Airrail from STR(ZWS) - FRA.
2 x € 8 for security - which is not seen at either trainstation - however FRAPort charges LH here based on TIX sold with FRA involved - meaning even if FRAPort does not screen the PAx on Airrail - LH gets to pay at that end.
2 x € 12 for Fuel Supplement - I did not realize that the ICE was running on Diesel - nor did the Lady from LH....

You will hear a lot of general excuses for who all is to blame - and poor LH is actually having much higher costs than they pass on...

The only credit I can give to LH - was the fact that this Lady felt, that a letter outlining the fabled story - would add fuel to the fire = upsetness, hence she decided to call - which IMHO required some courage - and showed indirectly - that whilst not providing any answers or solutions - LH does react to comments made.

Cheers

Thomas

Highlight was the € 40 LH adds on to Airrail from STR(ZWS) - FRA.
2 x € 8 for security - which is not seen at either trainstation - however FRAPort charges LH here based on TIX sold with FRA involved - meaning even if FRAPort does not screen the PAx on Airrail - LH gets to pay at that end.
2 x € 12 for Fuel Supplement - I did not realize that the ICE was running on Diesel - nor did the Lady from LH....

LOL. Fuel supplement for the ICE. Maybe there is soon an electricity supplement in order to support RWE in Münsterland.

Does LH advertise "free tickets". I know KLM and NW advertise FREE tickets in regards to their frequent flyer programs. Misleading advertisement? Consumer protection laws?

Does LH advertise "free tickets". I know KLM and NW advertise FREE tickets in regards to their frequent flyer programs. Misleading advertisement? Consumer protection laws?

I had the same idea, but didn´t find any "free tickets" - not in promos, not in the m&m conditions.... :mad:

I had the same idea, but didn´t find any "free tickets" - not in promos, not in the m&m conditions.... :mad:

Not on boarding passes or in M&M promotional material or in LH's magazines/ads? That's too bad. We need to look harder.

KLM and NW -- foolishly, for them -- advertise "free", without any * or other note, even on some boarding pass stock. :)