Air New Zealand Air Points - C class BNE-AKL replaced by Y+ on most flights!

Last Saturday I did a search for C class BNE-AKL for late December. Yesterday I noticed that on most days at least one flight does not offer C class anylonger even though the flights are operated by A320s.

A quick call to NZ this morning first resulted in a simple "I'm sorry, that is really difficult to explain" answer by the helpdesk. Reservations was then later able to confirm that those flights in fact have been converted from C to Y+ on the A320 and they couldn't offer C class on those flights anymore. Apparently this is very new and the agent told me that she was just reading the memo while we spoke. They offered to book me on another flight but the problem is that there is now no possible connection from AKL to NAN in C due to the changes.

What's happening with NZ trans tasman services? Are they going to take away C class all together? Or will they replace the A320 with another 772 and start offering C class again? Any idea whether they are going to do the same with the SYD-AKL routes soon i.e. not offering C class on that route but only Y and Y+?

According to an ad in today's Press, NZ appears to be doing the same thing with CHC-BNE flights and vice versa. If this is a permanent change, it would appear they've learnt nothing from the outcry which greeted the trans Tasman C class catering downgrade and subsequent reversal. :(

Could it be that NZ will be utilising the Freedom Air A320 on certain BNE routes? As we know, SJ does not have a C class product but a 'sort of' enhanced premuim economy.

Just my 2 cents worth.

This is the consequence of integrating the Air NZ and Freedom Air A320 flights into one operation.

Both aircraft have two rows of "Business" seating but on NZ-operated services there is Business catering and on Freedom-operated services there isn't, and you pay a flat $100 per sector supplement for the extra space only.

The whole thing will cause problems. Passengers who booked NZ flights can't really be carried on Freedom because they expect food and points, so the two products can't be interchanged as easily as one would expect.

Eventually, the idea is that Freedom will be fully absorbed into Air NZ, but with the whole short-haul outfit on Freedom-level wages and conditions.

For low-yield passengers with no brand loyalty that is fine. But it will alienate the business class passengers who generate the profits, and it is silly. Freedom Air should be dropped altogether.

We are going to end up with a two-tier Trans-Tasman and a two-tier Rarotonga offering. Discerning passengers will book the 747, 767 and 777 flights, while the A320 flights will be a pseudo-low cost offering.

I guess they think there is no J demand for Brisbane. Or that it's driven by demand for space rather than service.

Rather unintelligent, IMO.

I guess they think there is no J demand for Brisbane. Or that it's driven by demand for space rather than service.

Rather unintelligent, IMO.

Exactly! I hope they don't start a trend here because otherwise they are simply sending all the good paying revenue customers over to Qantas...

Now all we need if for QF to offer a Premium class of service domestically within NZ with fares set at an extra $100 above standard flexible fares…

Shall we take bets on how long this is going to last ? I can see this won’t be popular with the business pax which fly NZ because of the greater range of departure times.

Perhaps there is someone reading who can tell us why this rather IMO stupid decision has been made…

so- I'm flying SYD to ZQN direct in December in C - anyone aware of changes to business service on that route?

Little snippet in the Herald today - BNE will be the only trans-Tasman route which will have Y+ instead of J because it is primarily a "leisure destination".

I guess what is implied in that is that it is a "low market" leisure destination, as opposed to something like SYD-ZQN?

Little snippet in the Herald today - BNE will be the only trans-Tasman route which will have Y+ instead of J because it is primarily a "leisure destination".

I guess what is implied in that is that it is a "low market" leisure destination, as opposed to something like SYD-ZQN?

This sounds like it probably makes quite good business sense. As far as simply trans-Tasman traffic goes from BNE, it sounds like there's not much money to be made in offering business, especially from NZ's smaller cities, so to move BNE-CHC and BNE-WLG to Y/Y+ will probably work. (In terms of business demand, that ties in with my rather unscientific research, which is that NZ only made A320 J seats available for *A partner award redemption on the BNE routes - all others, including SYD-ZQN, seem to have zero availability, even 330 days out.)

What NZ needs to be careful about is not to alienate its premium long haul pax, but the BNE-AKL route has at least a daily widebody (with Y/Y+/J to connect to NZ's onward international services, so the connecting traffic gets a fairly consistent product all the way) in addition to the A320 services, which will be Y/Y+ only.

I would also hope that this means it would be more likely for the 'Freedom config' A320s to be used on the BNE routes - I would not be very happy to get one on SYD-AKL or SYD-WLG, with the tight pitch in Y...

A question that occurred to me was: Is there any service improvement on the A320 Y+, or is it just the better seat?

As I posted in the news thread it just is a better seat and premium check-in. They've probably found they can get away with one less FA if the service is the same as Y. Now why can't NZ offer something like that on domestic jet services…

I am booked AKL-BNE-AKL for a weekend at the end of January in C, both my flights are still showing as 777-200's (I am not holding my breath). However I have a friend who is flying with me on the outbound and then back a week later. She had a call yesterday to say that the had no buisness class on the return flight, so they had put her in "first". She is not a FF so she was happy to hear this, however I don't know of any Air NZ planes with just Y and F, my first thought was that it will be Y and Y+, now I booked this ticket for her as a *A award with UA, my thinking is that it was UA that called her, they may have looked at a Y and Y+ seatmap and been on the US domestic first line of thought. I am still waiting the call to tell me that I have had an equipment change, which I will not be happy about, I am only really going to try the new C on the 777. Mine is a *A award with BD, whats the deal if they swap out the plane, can I cancel and get a refund? Getting moved from C on a 777 to a 320 is one thing, flat bed to Y+ is another.

tht

To my knowledge, NZ have no intention of taking the 772 off the BNE-AKL routes, so you should be fine.

I am booked AKL-BNE-AKL for a weekend at the end of January in C, both my flights are still showing as 777-200's (I am not holding my breath). However I have a friend who is flying with me on the outbound and then back a week later. She had a call yesterday to say that the had no buisness class on the return flight, so they had put her in "first". She is not a FF so she was happy to hear this, however I don't know of any Air NZ planes with just Y and F, my first thought was that it will be Y and Y+, now I booked this ticket for her as a *A award with UA, my thinking is that it was UA that called her, they may have looked at a Y and Y+ seatmap and been on the US domestic first line of thought. I am still waiting the call to tell me that I have had an equipment change, which I will not be happy about, I am only really going to try the new C on the 777. Mine is a *A award with BD, whats the deal if they swap out the plane, can I cancel and get a refund? Getting moved from C on a 777 to a 320 is one thing, flat bed to Y+ is another.

tht

I think that UA placed your friend in Y+ and definitely not F! What day is the flight because they might be able to book her on one of the remaining planes with C class. I would insist of a proper C seat if I paid for it (by miles or money doesn't really matter) even if it means a day change (but they are free of charge anyway on UA). Don't settle for Y+!

If she was told that she was being put into First when clearly isn't UA need to rectify the situation offering her alternative sailings.

It's going to be interesting that Premium Economy is going to have three different seat width's across the tasman 20.9"/19.5"/17.8".

If this catches on - taking bet's on the next destination to go this way...

She had a call yesterday to say that the had no buisness class on the return flight, so they had put her in "first".
tht

Hi tht

NZ no longer offer first class at all anywhere in the system ( although the non-refitted 744 still have the old first class seats they are no longer sold as first class ) So whatever a/c , and whatever class she is on she will not be in anything that NZ markets as first class regardless of what UA have said .

AAARRRGGHH! I'm booked on BNE-CHC and just found out about this. I have a biz RTW with United and they didn't even tell me. I figured it out myself and now I'm stuck on what? A four hour flight in coach when I've paid for a biz ticket?

I called UA and they said tough luck. I asked for a supervisor and they seem to have now agreed to route me through AKL as they say that will be biz, but AKL-CHC will be back to economy. Do you think that is the better option for me?

AAARRRGGHH! I'm booked on BNE-CHC and just found out about this. I have a biz RTW with United and they didn't even tell me. I figured it out myself and now I'm stuck on what? A four hour flight in coach when I've paid for a biz ticket?

I called UA and they said tough luck. I asked for a supervisor and they seem to have now agreed to route me through AKL as they say that will be biz, but AKL-CHC will be back to economy. Do you think that is the better option for me?Per this advisory (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4814171&postcount=1384) you can expect much better than that. It's not good enough for UA not to offer you the choice.

Just to clarify the 320 J seats which will be used for Pacific Premium are much better than the coach ones (but not a patch on the new Business Premier Suite).

My husband (Gold Elite) applied for and was granted a business upgrade BNE - WGTN in January. This was his GE complimentary allocation.
On Friday, he was told that ANZ would no longer be offering business seating on the service but they would 'honour' his upgrade by placing him in premium economy. Needless to say, he is not going to accept this, as it would mean wasting his comp upgrade on a lesser product. GE members beware!

To my knowledge, NZ have no intention of taking the 772 off the BNE-AKL routes, so you should be fine.


Just checked my flight, on checkyourtrip.com and flybmi.com, and my flights have been changed both in timing and from C to Y+ (called first) and Y on the return as per below:

Friday, January 20, 2006
from:Auckland (AKL), 21:45 , from Terminal Ito:Brisbane Airport (BNE), 22:35 flight no:NZ137aircraft:Boeing 777-200operating carrier:Air New Zealandduration:3:40cabin:business (restricted ticket)status:unable, does not operate

Friday, January 20, 2006
from:Auckland (AKL), 21:45 , from Terminal Ito:Brisbane Airport (BNE), 22:35 flight no:NZ137aircraft:Boeing 777-200operating carrier:Air New Zealandduration:3:40cabin:business (flexible ticket)status:confirmed, timechange

Sunday, January 22, 2006
from:Brisbane Airport (BNE), 18:30 to:Auckland (AKL), 00:30 , at Terminal Iflight no:NZ138aircraft:Boeing 777-200operating carrier:Air New Zealandduration:3:00cabin:business (restricted ticket)status:unable, does not operate

Monday, January 23, 2006
from:Brisbane Airport (BNE), 01:35 to:Auckland (AKL), 07:45 flight no:NZ1138aircraft:operating carrier:Air New Zealandduration:0:00cabin:economy (flexible ticket)status:confirmed, timechange

I called Air NZ, they can't touch it, as it was booked by BMI. BMI have not called me yet, the new return time does not suit me, and there is no way I am paying 22.5k miles and GBP187 (NZD 467) to fly in Y and Y+, so I am planning to get a refund and scrap the trip, I assume that I will not be charged any fee as the changes were on the airline's side.

Not sure if the change is due to late arrival of 777's or a change in stratergy, but thats my holiday out the window.

tht

Hmmmm, that's interesting. Looking at the schedules and the online booking engine, your flights (NZ137 and NZ138) are still to be operated by 777s, but offering only Y and Y+ classes of service. The other flights on those days (NZ135 and NZ136) are operated by a 747 (probably non-refitted) and *do* offer business class.

Presumably this means that NZ have decided only to offer 1 flight a day on the AKL-BNE route with business class, timed to connect with its other international and long haul services. The other communications I had read indicated that it was only the A320 flights that were to be operated as Y/Y+ services so this is news to me. If Y+ is the highest service class on the 777 does that mean you'd get the business premier suites? If so, then it's not all bad news - you'll get great comfort levels, loads of space and an AVOD IFE system to keep you amused. The Y class meals across the Tasman are not very exciting but at least the booze is still free. You could probably negotiate lounge access as well, if you don't already get that through *G status.

Maybe bmi will rebook you onto the NZ136 return service, dep BNE 11.40 arr AKL 17.40? Assuming they will do that, you'll get the full J service but probably the older style seats. If you did the other direction on the 777 with Y+ service but new business premier cabin, that might not be such a bad use of your hard earned points and cash?

Anyway, best of luck with sorting this one out. :)

Thank you Flyertalk.
I was travelling paid business BNE-CHC-WLG tomorrow and returning same way saturday.
I have not had a call from NZ re loss of J but I have just rung them .
I'm now travelling both ways via AKL.
The outward service is a 747 (presumably the old config) and return is the 777 which I presume has the fancy seats .

To my knowledge, NZ have no intention of taking the 772 off the BNE-AKL routes, so you should be fine.

Flying BNE to AKL on Saturday Dec17 "Business Class". Using UAL miles. Booked a few weeks ago and a/c was listed as 747. Called to get seats, and they could not assign as they "were unsure of a/c type, and may change equipment". Tried last week and same story. Just hung up phone with Air NZ and have seats. Equip is 747 refitted. Seats assigned were Business Premier.

mad_atta - your posts, and other FlyerTalk members, have helped me planning this trip from USA to OZ and NZ. Thanks for the great information you have all shared.

We also fly from AKL to SYD in early Dec and those seats and equip were finally available. A/C is 777-200, Flt #101.

Glad we didn't get the A320 either way while Air NZ make the transitions. Hope I haven't spoken too soon! Who knows.

However I have a friend who is flying with me on the outbound and then back a week later. She had a call yesterday to say that the had no buisness class on the return flight, so they had put her in "first". She is not a FF so she was happy to hear this, however I don't know of any Air NZ planes with just Y and F, my first thought was that it will be Y and Y+, now I booked this ticket for her as a *A award with UA, my thinking is that it was UA that called her, they may have looked at a Y and Y+ seatmap and been on the US domestic first line of thought.

Actually good timing - just posted an alert in the Star forum further down the forum list. Appears that NZ are rebooking any affected rewards pax previously in the "I" Business Cabin reward class on these affected flights into "O" class, which would now seem to be trans-tasman Y+ with NZ. As "O" is used as a First reward under the Star Standard class structure by almost all Star partners (including NZ when they had it) this is what is causing the confusion and misinformation. A lot of the FF schemes are not aware of the actual changes NZ have made in dropping F cabins and the realignment of it's O class and are advising affectted pax they are rebooked into First when they see "O" generate through from NZ with the change.

For those on revenue tickets like RTW's, it's up to NZ to do the free reissues or accept coupons as is, not the carrier's you have purchased your tickets from - don't shoot the messenger. :) They are only passing on to you the changes that NZ have passed to them. The carriers can also only book or rebook what shows as available as well.

This situation is a relatively minor drop in the bucket compared to some of the problems associated with TG's withdrawal from SYD-AKL flights at short notice. Ever tried getting late December reward seats Trans-Tasman with 6 weeks notice?!?!? Can relate one story regarding a 23 December AKL-SYD on TG being moved to Dec 15 as "best & only available reward" on NZ.

Ouch :(

Good news for those of you booked on these flights. I just did BNE-CHC in Premium Economy and it's pretty much like F-class on UA domestic. The A320 has 2 rows of large 2-2 leather seats with footrests. The food is economy and you aren't supposed to get the DVD players. However they had the DVD's on board my flight and they let us use them. Excellent service of course. I was in my usual 1A and it was just fine to me.

The NZ lounge in BNE is pretty nice too.

This situation is a relatively minor drop in the bucket compared to some of the problems associated with TG's withdrawal from SYD-AKL flights at short notice. Ever tried getting late December reward seats Trans-Tasman with 6 weeks notice?!?!? Can relate one story regarding a 23 December AKL-SYD on TG being moved to Dec 15 as "best & only available reward" on NZ.

Since the TG flights SYD-AKL are gone it's been impossible to get C class awards on this route and my guess is that it won't change unless NZ is forced to release at least 2 seats per day for awards to *Alliance partner awards. TG wasn't a great choice but at least you were able to get award seats in C and F class on that route. :mad:

I hope they will reconsider and bring back the BKK-SYD-AKL route soon.

The reason behind BNE going to y+ is simply the loads for business have never been good esp out of wlg and chc on the A320 ...Also there are wide bodied jets that have business and pax can connect via a domestic flight to get those business seats ..reason the syd and mel flights will still operate as business is they are usually full or pretty full due to more business travellers on those routes..
It just makes good commercial sence to be able to get a few extra dollars out of people to upgrade to y+ when they could not afford to go to a full business class