Good day all! First, in case no one has seen a picture of the new 777 here is a picture: http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=947546&WxsIERv=Obrvat%20777-219%2FRE&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=Nve%20Arj%20Mrnynaq&QtODMg=Nhpxynaq%20-%20Vagreangvbany%20%28NXY%20%2F%20AMNN%29&ERDLTkt=Arj%20Mrnynaq&ktODMp=Bpgbore%2029%2C%202005&BP=1&WNEb25u=Jvyy.znyyvafba%40tznvy.pbz&xsIERvdWdsY=MX-BXN&MgTUQtODMgKE=Nve%20Arj%20Mrnynaqf%20Svefg%20rire%2 0777-219%20Gbhpurf%20qbja%20ba%20Nhpxynaqf%20ehajnl%202 3Y&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=299&NEb25uZWxs=2005-10-29%2004%3A41%3A04&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=29404&static=yes&width=1024&height=701&sok=JURER%20%20%28qngrfgnzc%20%3E%20qngr_fho%28ABJ %28%29%2C%20VAGREINY%2024%20UBHE%29%29%20%20beqre% 20ol%20ivrjf%20qrfp&photo_nr=26&prev_id=947169&next_id=947315&size=L .
Second, I was curious as to what routes will the 777 fly on. Will it go AKL-LAX/SFO or a route with a better yield?
ntddevsys
Oct 29, 05, 12:08 am
^ It's very nice isn't it.
Jetphoto's (http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?ids=5618259,%205618258,%205618260,% 205618261,%205618262) has a few more pictures too...
Like I posted here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4787702&postcount=39) the first pair of 777s is going to run 6 x weekly AKL/SFO services from 1 December. Until then they'll be plying the tasman routes from AKL (on the 4th of November they'll be flying promo flights to Ohakea and CHC).
The next set are scheduled to ply the Singapore route and i've sent an email to try and find out where after that - Most likely Japan or Hong Kong (if not uprated to 74E)
777-DCA
Oct 29, 05, 12:27 am
^ It's very nice isn't it.
Jetphoto's (http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?ids=5618259,%205618258,%205618260,% 205618261,%205618262) has a few more pictures too...
Like I posted here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4787702&postcount=39) the first pair of 777s is going to run 6 x weekly AKL/SFO services from 1 December. Until then they'll be plying the tasman routes from AKL (on the 4th of November they'll be flying promo flights to Ohakea and CHC).
The next set are scheduled to ply the Singapore route and i've sent an email to try and find out where after that - Most likely Japan or Hong Kong (if not uprated to 74E)
Will the 777 have to make a fuel stop if there are head winds? Or, can it make it without a problem?
Xiaotung
Oct 29, 05, 1:29 am
And the proposed Auckland Shanghai route will use 777 as well if approved.
PhilH
Oct 29, 05, 3:23 am
Will the 777 have to make a fuel stop if there are head winds? Or, can it make it without a problem?
The 772ER has longer range than the 744, so should be able to make it easily.
DCF
Oct 29, 05, 6:20 am
My bets are:
1) Because of the sub-747 size market for daily flights:
San Francisco
Singapore
Hong Kong
2) Because of the sub-747 size market even for twice weekly flights, but long distance:
Shanghai
3) Because the market exists for Business Premier:
Papeete to Los Angeles (AKL-PPT-LAX)
Planes which fly to the USA / Papeete are likely to be used Trans-Tasman during the day. I wish that through flights from BNE / MEL / SYD via AKL to the USA would be operated on a 777, rather than having to connect on the repellent A320 which provides a horrible beginning or end to a long-haul journey.
As I have said before, I would love to see part of the 777 order converted to the ultra-long range 260 seat 777LR Worldliner to use the new unlimited UK-NZ traffic rights. The goal would be to shorten the AKL-LHR flight for through passengers by using a smaller aircraft than a 74R, with just a fuel stop en route but bypassing US passport control.
The airline could operate NZ1/2 from AKL to LHR with a 30 minute technical stop for fuel at Papeete which would cut out the Passport Control debacle at LAX and reduce the flight to 20 hours and 30 minutes. NZ flew AKL-PPT-LAX-LHR in the late eighties, and presumably retain the traffic rights, even though the flight wouldn't actually pick up or drop off anyone at the technical stop. Rarotonga would be a possible alternative.
The 777LR can fly LHR-SYD non-stop (but not back again due to headwinds), so PPT-LHR should be feasible at full capacity.
ntddevsys
Oct 29, 05, 3:38 pm
Yesterday while trawling on airliners.net for pictures of the new 777, I also checked out their forums - apparently the new 777 will be deployed onto the SFO/SIN/NRT/KIX routes (in that order).
The 767 a/c type which currently operates the HKG service currently fly’s with a lower payload because IIRC it doesn’t have the range required to fly the route fully laden. AKL/HKG is quite a good cargo route so if it’s not being upgraded to a 777 it must be going to a 74R. Because HKG is a less than stellar performing route for NZ the only predictable reason for the upgrade is the aircraft continuing onwards to another destination.
AKL-HKG-LHR is about 600km less than AKL-PPT-LHR and 400km less than AKL-RAR-LHR and is an ideal connection point for connecting services from Australia, perhaps with a 777.
777-DCA
Oct 30, 05, 12:59 am
The 772ER has longer range than the 744, so should be able to make it easily.
Wow! I did not know that. The 777LR should be even more enticing.
DUS
Oct 31, 05, 11:42 am
Hi guys,
I am going to fly the 777-200ER in March on a SIN - AKL flight with Air NZ and I´d like to make a seat reservation asap.
From what I read here -and I am absolutely not a professional flyer as most of you are- nobody can provide me with a recommendation for a seat (actually 2 as I will be travelling with a friend) since Air NZ hasn´t yet started operating the 777-200ER? Is that correct?
So will I have to wait till December or did I miss something on this board and there are already seat recommendations available for the new 777-200ER?
Looking forward to your feedback.
DUS
mad_atta
Oct 31, 05, 5:00 pm
The 772ER has longer range than the 744, so should be able to make it easily.
Really? The aircraft statistics (http://www.airnz.co.nz/aboutus/fleet/aircraft_statistics.htm) page on the AirNZ website (which is a far from infallible source of information, I know!) lists the 744 range as 13,000km and the 772ER as 9635km. I did look at the 772 range and think it looked surprisingly low. Have they got it wrong then?
DCF
Oct 31, 05, 10:36 pm
According to Boeing, the ranges are as follows....
747-400 = 13,570 km
777-200ER = 14,300 km (this is the version Air NZ has bought)
777-200 = 9,500 km (the ten year-old 777 model)
777-200LR WorldLiner = 17,446 km fully loaded
I still think that the 777-200LR is a great opportunity to use the NZ-UK unlimited rights.
A Hong Kong stop would be OK, but would put the airline subject to the vagaries of Chinese politics and airport congestion. In contrast, NZ is the major international player at both RAR and PPT, and we would know that the second the plane was fuelled up it would be cleared to take off again.
I would welcome the airline introducing all of:
AKL-HKG-LHR
MEL-BNE-HKG
AKL-PPT (or RAR)-LHR
This would free the airline to use the LAX and SFO traffic rights better, instead of wasting them on transit passengers.
Papeete to London is 15,368 km, so it is comfortably within range of the 777-200LR.
DUS
Nov 1, 05, 2:49 am
Hi,
I have one more question re the new 777-200ER that is going to be operated on the SIN - AKL route next year.
Is it correct that the seats in C will come in 1-2-1????
Cheers
DUS
ntddevsys
Nov 1, 05, 3:10 am
Is it correct that the seats in C will come in 1-2-1????Spot on (http://airnz.co.nz/travelinfo/ontheplane/seat_maps/boeing_777_200_new_popup.htm)
B-HXB
Nov 1, 05, 2:50 pm
One wonders what NZ are doing wrong on the HKG route - CX makes a decent profit out of running 10 flights a week even in the down season (although this might be due to their better connections in Hong Kong).
Noticed an ad in the Herald this morning for $399 deals for Pacific Premium Economy to Brisbane/Sydney. Remember the days when you couldn't get a return ticket to Australia in plain old economy for less than $800? Wasn't all that long ago. :eek:
DUS
Nov 2, 05, 6:03 am
Spot on (http://airnz.co.nz/travelinfo/ontheplane/seat_maps/boeing_777_200_new_popup.htm)
Cheers!
Unfortunately, when I phoned Air NZ 2 mins ago the lady there said that she has no 777-200ER in her system for the SIN-AKl flight in March 2006 and that the seat formation will be a 2 - 2 on my flight. :confused:
DUS
ntddevsys
Nov 2, 05, 8:59 pm
That is very odd :confused: . It's loaded into the schedule as daily 772ER flights...
B-HXB
Nov 2, 05, 9:05 pm
the lady there said that she has no 777-200ER in her system for the SIN-AKl flight in March 2006 and that the seat formation will be a 2 - 2 on my flight. :confused:
2-2?
Business on the 763 (which is what currently plies the Singapore route) is 2-2-2.
On the other hand if you take a 'creative' interpretation of the 777 seating layout and sort of imagine a break running down the centre of the aircraft, one could arguably call that a 2-2 configuration (even though most airlines would term it 1-2-1).
tht
Nov 3, 05, 12:45 pm
2-2?
Business on the 763 (which is what currently plies the Singapore route) is 2-2-2.
On the other hand if you take a 'creative' interpretation of the 777 seating layout and sort of imagine a break running down the centre of the aircraft, one could arguably call that a 2-2 configuration (even though most airlines would term it 1-2-1).
Although missleading, the "creative" interpretation may be better for passengers who do not know the plane layout, that is to say if 2 pax want seats together and were given 1-2-1 they may book the middle 2, when on the new flat beds you need to get either the row infornt/behind or seat across the isle if you want to be close to each other.
tht
BiziBB
Nov 4, 05, 2:38 am
FYI from my newspaper today, with flight, aircraft, seat and upgrade info (I could not find this already posted and thought it might be relevant):
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17130416%255E23349,00.html
Kiwi long-haul coup rattles roo
Geoffrey Thomas
November 04, 2005
"As Qantas executives plan their next strategy to keep Singapore Airlines off the Sydney-Los Angeles route, a far more potent threat slipped into Sydney yesterday.
Air New Zealand's first 313-seat 777-200ER commenced operations flying the Tasman before being deployed on Auckland-San Francisco services later this month.
The first 777-200ER was delivered to Air New Zealand on October 27 in Seattle and the second will be handed over this weekend.
This single 777 potentially represents a far greater threat to Qantas than Singapore Airlines and Emirates operating on the Sydney-Los Angles route.
For it is the first of 52 777s and 787s that the born-again New Zealand airline has placed commitments for delivery over the next 10 years.
But there is worse for Qantas.
Not only does Air New Zealand have new long-haul aircraft but they all sport new interiors.
For the past 10 years Qantas, with its vastly superior in-flight product, has feasted on Air New Zealand's lunch but the Kiwi airlines is about to swoop on Qantas's five-course dinner.
Within 12 months, the airline will have eight 777-200ERs in service and all eight 747-400s reconfigured with the new cabin interior.
The first reconfigured 747 entered service in September on the Melbourne-Auckland-San Francisco route and the 747s are being reconfigured at one a month.
Five of the airline's nine 767-300ERs are being retained, giving a 30 per cent increase in capacity for long-haul.
"We have some catching up to do," Air New Zealand's new CEO Rob Fyfe told The Australian with a wry smile. "For the past 10 years, we only grew at 1 per cent a year while Qantas grew at 5 per cent a year. We are re-establishing ourselves in key markets -- and some new ones."
High on the list is San Francisco: The airline will increase its service from three times weekly to six times a week with straight through connections from Melbourne and, shortly, Adelaide.
Air New Zealand is targeting Qantas's underbelly and is also looking at rescheduling flights from Perth to connect with US flights. And Fyfe is upbeat on the airline's new in-flight product. "We are redefining long-haul travel - our new interior is a game-changing initiative," claims Fyfe.
Key to the new product is the fact that Australians and New Zealanders are the world's second-tallest after the Dutch. Air New Zealand has installed the industry's longest bed - 203.2cm - in its Business Premier Class, which combines the old first and business classes; introduced a new Pacific Premium Economy with 99.06cm-101.6cm seat pitch; and retained its generous 86.36cm seat pitch in Pacific Economy on its 747s.
The 777s, which will mostly be deployed on Asian routes, will however have 81.28cm seat pitch in Economy, which is an industry standard, although some airlines have just 78.74cm seat pitch for the long haul.
The reaction to the new in-flight product has been overwhelming, says Fyfe. Premium Class passengers, he says, are streaming back to the airline while there has been no loss of passengers from the pointy end to Premium Economy but rather Economy passengers upgrading.
"We are finding retired couples and business executives on vacation with their families are filling up the Pacific Premium Economy cabin," Fyfe says. He concedes that the airline will have to increase the size of the Pacific Premium Class by cutting down the Economy seating.
Qantas has resisted the move to a premium economy product.
Air New Zealand has also finally added in-seat entertainment for Economy and does it with flair with an on-demand system incorporating 780 hours of selections displayed on a high-resolution personal screen.
Total cost of the upgrade for the 747s is $NZ160 million ($149 million) and the first 747 took 70,000 man-hours to modify.
While all the glamour surrounds the 777 and 747 refit, the remaining five 767-300ERS will come in for a small makeover with fresh fabrics, and Fyfe says the airline is looking at portable DVD players for economy passengers.
With the longer-range variants of the aircraft it has ordered, there is nothing stopping Air New Zealand returning to the Australian-US non-stop market, launching daily non-stop services such as Perth-Los Angeles, Brisbane-Seattle and Adelaide-San Francisco. "Air New Zealand could become a major player on the Pacific," said one Sydney-based analyst"
kiwiandrew
Nov 4, 05, 4:24 am
Key to the new product is the fact that Australians and New Zealanders are the world's second-tallest after the Dutch.
"
where the hell did they dream that "fact" up - I am a shortarsed Kiwi (175cm) and I feel like a "person of restricted growth" when I am in The Netherlands , Norway , Sweden , Germany , Tonga or Samoa - but going through SYD or AKL I never feel that way ( unless of course a flight from TBU or APW has just landed!).
Still , a very interesting report to read , even allowing for the hype it does sound like a great product and I can't wait to s-t-r-e-t-c-h my 175 cm out in a 203.2 cm ( gotta love that extra 2mm there ) true flat bed next time I head home for a visit .
ntddevsys
Nov 4, 05, 10:56 pm
(I could not find this already posted and thought it might be relevant)Try here (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4819770&postcount=1388/)
If it's true that the seats on 5 763s are only going to be re-covered I say poor show Air New Zealand :td: Still good to see that they're getting free publicity with this new product.
DUS
Nov 11, 05, 6:07 am
Spot on (http://airnz.co.nz/travelinfo/ontheplane/seat_maps/boeing_777_200_new_popup.htm)
Gents,
I am completey lost with the information provided by AirNZ on my SIN-AKL flight in March 2006.
When I phoned them some days ago, they said they do not have the new 777/772 in their system yet for this specific route but that for the moment they would reserve 2 seats for me and my friend in the current 2-2 layout in Business Class.
Today, I phoned them again, asking if the system now shows the 777/772 and if so if I could change my reservation. Assuming that the 772´s layout in C would be 1-2-1 I wanted to go for 2 seats behind each other. Now I was told that the 777/772 is indeed registered in the AirNZ system for my flight but that the seat layout was still 2-2 so no changes could be made to my reservation.
Now I am completely confused. What a/c will I be flying with and why does the AirNZ website show a 1-2-1 seat layout whilst the staff on the reservation line keep on telling me that it will be a 2-2? I really don´t understand it. Could anybody please help and clarify this?
Cheers
DUS
Reason077
Nov 11, 05, 12:07 pm
Now I am completely confused. What a/c will I be flying with and why does the AirNZ website show a 1-2-1 seat layout whilst the staff on the reservation line keep on telling me that it will be a 2-2? I really don´t understand it. Could anybody please help and clarify this?
While the physical configuration of the 777 business cabin is 1-2-1, the middle seats face away from each other, so as a pair travelling together you would not want to book the middle two seats.
It looks like Air NZ have changed the seat maps in the booking system to a 2-2 layout to reflect this. By booking an A/B or J/K pair of seats, you would be facing each other (at an angle) across the aisle. An alternative is to book a pair of seats in adjacent rows, eg 4A & 5A, in which case you'll be side-by-side (but with a partition in between).
DUS
Nov 11, 05, 12:36 pm
While the physical configuration of the 777 business cabin is 1-2-1, the middle seats face away from each other, so as a pair travelling together you would not want to book the middle two seats.
It looks like Air NZ have changed the seat maps in the booking system to a 2-2 layout to reflect this. By booking an A/B or J/K pair of seats, you would be facing each other (at an angle) across the aisle. An alternative is to book a pair of seats in adjacent rows, eg 4A & 5A, in which case you'll be side-by-side (but with a partition in between).
Ok, we currently have 4A and B as well as 03K & J for the return flight. I guess, we´ll be better off to go for 4A & 5A instead. That would mean 2 window seats behind each other, wouldn´t it?
DUS
DCF
Nov 11, 05, 8:13 pm
No, you're better with what you have got: you'll be able to see each other!
DUS
Nov 12, 05, 1:16 am
No, you're better with what you have got: you'll be able to see each other!
Admittedly a choice I could absolutely agree upon but my friend absolutely wants to have a window seat. Given that "requirement" what would be your recommendation in terms of seat reservation?
DUS
t1nt1n
Nov 13, 05, 6:11 am
Reading this thread gives the impression that the new 777 will be deployed on long-haul routes. Yet my 10DEC SYD-AKL booking on NZ shows "772" for the aircraft.
Am I really going to be sitting in their new C class seats for a 3 hour trip??
Kiwi Flyer
Nov 13, 05, 9:46 am
Yes primarily long haul but as with 747 and 767 some trans-tasman flights also.
gbogo
Nov 13, 05, 11:28 am
flight of fancy maybe, but couldn't the new 777-ultra long-range whatever it is that just flew HKG-LHR eastwards, fly AKL-LHR over the US and then LHR-AKL over Asia coming home, so it would most always have a following wind? no stops... maybe if it had an "All business" config? Might be a 21-hour flight but beats getting off, even in Asia, changing planes, landing, taking off again etc... ?
Weez
Nov 14, 05, 4:32 pm
Reading this thread gives the impression that the new 777 will be deployed on long-haul routes. Yet my 10DEC SYD-AKL booking on NZ shows "772" for the aircraft.
Am I really going to be sitting in their new C class seats for a 3 hour trip??
Yes you really are. I flew on the new 777 twice over the weekend. On Friday on NZ101 SYD- AKL and then back to SYD on Monday morning on NZ106. The cabin crew are doing training flights transtasman. They need to be certified on the new aircraft on 5hr flight so there and back count. There were 13 or 14 FAs for a flight that normally has 9. The service director was saying that this aircraft was going to be servicing SFO and Shanghai from late Dec/ early new year. At the moment they are scheduled to do about 4 transtasmans a day.
Business Premier was great, on outbound flight cabin was almost full. Great service, good food etc. On inbound, there were only 5 in biz - therefore outstanding service and plenty of time to chat to the crew. They were all so obviously proud of their new aircraft. There was a real buzz, on both flights.
From a seat point of view, its novel to be semirecumbent on takeoff and landing! The controls are a little sensitive so just brushing past them made the seat move. Its very easy to make the seat into a bed but wouldn't want to see everyone try to do it at once! The table on both my seats didn't want to stay stored. Apparently a design flaw that they are working on. I had a very pleasant snooze for about 1 hour. Very comfortable (but a little hard) especially if lying on your side, but felt a bit short when lying on my front (I know -little grumble, but I'm 5'10 not over 6' so not sure how that would work)
In all it was a very pleasant surprise, and a great use of a star Biz award for a weekend in AKL to see Pavarotti. My friend flew MEL - AKL on Friday and he got the newly configured 747, so he was happy too. (BTW apparently they've made a deal with SYD airport to board the 777 through the door between prem econ and biz, so they don't have loads of people tramping through - according to the purser some damage has already been done to one of the ottomans from a wheelie bag :()
If anyone wants more info let me know.
Louise
mad_atta
Nov 14, 05, 5:22 pm
Thanks for sharing your impressions, Louise.
I have one question for you - did you use the IFE system, and if so, what did you think of it? Did you experience any of the teething problems that others have reported?
Weez
Nov 15, 05, 12:02 am
Yes i used the ife. The movie selection is good, the problem however is the time lag between pressing the controls, and things happening on the screen. The purser announced at the beginning of the "entertainment" that everyone should be patient with the system because of the lagtime, and not to keep pressing the buttons. I also listened to the CD selection, and after choosing a CD you can fast forward a track but you can't go back. I had 2 screen freezes - which I solved by turning the system off and then back on. On the flight to AKL on the passengers in front of me was quite upset as his system didn't seem to work, but after a reset everything was back to normal. There is a control console next to the front toilet, just by the door to the cockpit. I joked it looked like Starship Enterprise - which got a few laughs :)
These flights were in the middle of a trip to Sydney that have included UA intl C transatlantic, UA P.S. C transcon and UA Intl F transpacific. I'm in the middle of writing a comparison, so having the NZ Biz Prem was great :)
Louise
t1nt1n
Nov 15, 05, 4:31 am
Business Premier was great, on outbound flight cabin was almost full. Great service, good food etc.
Thanks for the overview!! I'm really looking forward to trying it out now .. it'll be the first flight on my RTW this coming December. :D
777-DCA
Nov 17, 05, 6:50 pm
Here is another picture of the first 777 to New Zealand: