Flying Blue (Air France, KLM, and Other Partners) - My opinion AF Y vs KLM Y

Ok, some of you may remember that I recently sought advice as I was taking my first AF long-haul Y flight - here's a brief summary of what I found, and how I think the two airlines compare.

Ok MAN-CDG-BOG - ground service nothing to write home about, asked for window, got aisle. Nice lounge at MAN (with the best selection of munchies encountered on the entire trip), but skyteam needs to get out of T2, it is the chavviest terminal at MAN.

in the air - good standard Y short haul service.

Departed late, arrived late, had a horrendous taxi to stand (seemed like a Polderbaan landing), waited ages for a bus, went on a magical mystery tour of CDG by bus, all of which cut my transfer time to 1 hr - of which I spent 50 minutes standing in the queue for security, worrying about whether I'd make my flight. I did - was bused back around the airport, virtually to where I'd started off that morning :rolleyes: boarded at push back time, and then sat for an hour on the ground for no reason that was apparent - probably waiting on the rest of passengers to get through security!

In the air, the seats were pretty good for Y, with an appearance of spaciousness. Good IFE (I won £1 million ;)). Reasonably good food. Disappointing lack of crew once dinner was served. Some lovely arrogance from the crew - when the girl in the next seat asked for duty free, she was told it was closed, and she should have asked earlier. No apology, no recognition that the crew are there to provide service as well as safety - well it made me smile ;)

No upgrades, no empty seats, somewhere down the back of the cabin, no recognition of status on this flight at all.

The return - BOG-CDG-MAN. Elite ness lets you jump the security queue at BOG, which is a huge plus (it seemed to be about 2 miles long... the end appeared to be lost due to the curvature of the earth ;)) - a quick card flash, and I was ushered through at top speed :D Check-in was good, got a window seat at front of cabin, bags were priority tagged, and they didn't bat an eyelid at my generous interpretation of what constitutes cabin baggage :o Lounge invite issued, and I wandered off with some fear and trepidation to the Admiral's Club that AF use at BOG. It was disappointing - very limited selection of drinks (and the sodas were well hidden) - generally very American in type of lounge. Hardly any munchies, altoghough I did find some plantain crisps. Overflowing toilets were something of a surprise both to me and to the staff....

Boarding commenced very promptly, but we took about 30 mins delay over runways... Do AF ever fly on time? ;) :D Although I had a seat near the front of the cabin, no empty seat next to me, although there were some around. Dinner was served promptly, and was again reasonably good. Crew promptly disappeared, and were not seen again in the cabin until the lights came up. Having serve yourself drinks is a little bit problematic on a night flight, as if you are at a window, and your (unknown) companion is slumbering on the aisle, it seems rude to wake them just because you are thirsty - so I waited for about 2 hours for my companion to waken up, so i could get out to get something to drink, all the time getting thirstier and thirstier.

Breakfast was rubbish, I hate cold airline breakfasts. And then we landed at 2C, having been told our arrival terminal would be 2F. Fortunately, I breezed through security this time (phew!), and made it to the lounge, where I had a shower :D :D :D Showering after overnight flights is one of the best things about lounges. However, it would be nice if the shower packs maybe contained some shampoo and conditioner? Or maybe that's just me - I can't just rinse my hair through, as then I can't comb it out afterwards! But it was a hot shower, and much appreciated!

CDG was in low vis today, so lots of delayed flights, and the business lounge was virtually standing room only... managed to eventually find a seat.... not the greatest drink or food options in the world, but better than in BOG. Our flight was delayed an hour (see what I mean about flights leaving on time - not one of mine did on this trip!).

Flight back - I slept. Cute crew. They liked Sheep (who had spent most of both flights cuddled into me as I seem to sleep better on planes if he is around :o)

So overall who is better at what for economy travel?

Klm - KLM better
AF - AF better
= they are equally good or equally bad ;)

Ground
Lounges: = - ok, not a dedicated lounge in BOG - blame AA for that lounge. The MAN lounge just stops KLM getting this one - did I mention the MAN lounge staff were great too?
Check-in: KLM - but this could be because I forget all the medicre KLM experiences I've had.
Airports: KLM. AMS is waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy nicer airport than CDG. It just works better as a passenger.

Air:
Shorthaul:
Food - AF (there is some!)
Crew - = short-haul crew were pretty good
Comfort - AF - I like Airbuses

Longhaul:
Food - AF (easily, despite the poor breakfast - largely made up for by feeding me Hagen Daz chocolate lollies)
Crew - KLM - they are a lot more evident in the cabins, and I prefer the frequent walk throughs with trays of drinks to the serve yourself idea. And the Dutch crews are generally happy and smilie as they work.
Comfort - AF - I'd take the Y A340 seat over the Y 747 seat anyday
IFE - AF - no contest!

So in the air, AF were generally better. My major conclusion was that AF should move their hub to AMS, and then they'd be a pretty good airline to fly in Y - at the moment, the mess that is CDG is letting them down a lot on the ground.

I am happy to see you're back from your AF experience. too bad for upgrades :(

I survived :) And if I have to be down the back, then my conclusion is that AF is one of the better ones to be down the back on, from a seat comfort point of view. Of course, still trying to work the cricks out of my back now!

(and shock - the two Avianca flights which I took in Colombia have both posted correctly, and without any intervention from me :eek: )

So in the air, AF were generally better. My major conclusion was that AF should move their hub to AMS, and then they'd be a pretty good airline to fly in Y - at the moment, the mess that is CDG is letting them down a lot on the ground.

I second that my, experience is that the inflight experience of AF is far better than KL. But what about CDG there goes a crappy managed business...

Thanks for the report, Jenbel. I agree that if you are stuck in Y, it's better to be with AF. I've almost always had pretty good experiences with the crews working Y; sorry yours didn't seem to be up to snuff.

BTW the KLM lounge at MAN is the AF lounge and quite nice it is. I would agree about moving from T-Chav at MAN if only T1 wasn't falling apart.

Nice report - though not as fascinating/exciting as your wonderful Barra saga on the BA board. (I never fly BA, yet I spend more time lurking on that board that I do on all the boards of those companies I do fly).

I think lateness just goes in phases. There was a time when every AF flight I caught was late, but I don't think I've had a delay for a couple of years now. And you're very aware of four in a row.

I've only flown long-haul Y once in recent years (though always did as a poverty-stricken student) and that was a downgrade from C (BUT I did get vast numbers of miles). They gave me a whole row of three seats and kept telling me to go through to the C bar and have a drink. I was impressed with Y lunch/dinner food - compared to other airlines in Y, there was enough to eat and it was really quite nice (as good as or better than Eurostar First Class, certainly).

Sorry about the crews. I've usually found them fine and, actually, quite good fun. But I remember the old (out-of-date?) list of airlines and the reasons you would choose to fly them. British Airways - for the food; Lufthansa - for a relaxing experience; Aeroflot - for a safe journey. The most devastating of all was Air France - for the smile. :)

BTW - they seemed to like Sheep. Did Sheep like them?

Thanks for the comments :D The lateness thing doesn't bother me too much (well until the last flight, which meant driving home with jet lag in rush hour travel :() - when flying you inevitably get delays. It's more of an interesting observation that I've never been on an AF flight that departed on time (n=6, i'm counting two from years ago as well). But I also assume I have a large element of bad luck in that as well....

Sheep is always upset when he doesn't get his own seat.... so that's a black mark against them, but then so far, only BD meets his standard there (LH SEN), and I don't think he realises how often at SSCI I've reassigned myself to ensure he has his coveted own seat. However, he did like the fact that the seats were quite spacious, since he was sharing mine... a bigger, fluffier blanket would also have been appreciated, but he did like a) the champagne (he's such a champagne snob!) and b) the video games. Was also pleased and relieved they didn't serve lamb on the flight ;) And he was very amused that they acknowledged him, but only when they thought I was sleeping - crew reactions have been mixed so far from "I like your Sheep, is there anything special he needs for the flight?" BD approach, to BA completely refusing to acknowledge him (even though he watched the safety demo avidly), until we deplaned when someone said "Bye Sheep!" very quietly as we exited :D.. to AF admiring him when they thought I was asleep. One of the amusing things about travelling with Sheep is other people's reactions to him ;)

I think he'd be happy to fly them again. He would like more Sheep friendly lounges (bigger tables for him to sit on (yes, very often he likes to sit out and watch the world go by - if you're ever in a lounge with a Sheep carrying a lot of FF cards, I'm probably around somewhere too), grass play areas, champagne baths), but I do tell him that's an unrealistic expectation :)

And that's me probably now lost all credibility with the FB board :o - yes, I am quite mad ;)

And that's me probably now lost all credibility with the FB board :o - yes, I am quite mad ;)

No madder than the rest of the BA FFers (or me, for that matter). It's so wonderfully English, sorry, British. I'm always amazed at the supposedly classless American boards with their obsession with status, status, status ("I'm First Class Super Executive level" in almost every message), and their desire to stop Economy passengers using a Business bog, compared to supposedly class-ridden Britain. You'd never guess that from the BA board. I once nearly posted there as I was preparing supper and couldn't get a stone out of an avocado. I was sure that someone would have helped.

Sheep must be the only satisfied BD customer. We're all leaving in droves with only Tristan727 going the other way. He seems to enjoy flying only the worst airlines, so is upping his posts on BD and posting less on BA since the catering strike ended.

I really must not go so OT in a FB post.