Independence Air iClub - On Time Performance

I just had the dubious pleasure of using Independence Air and I don't think I'll be back. I had to go to a funeral in NJ from Columbia, SC, and picked FlyI due to the low airfares (half of Delta & Continental). Well, it is true, you get what you pay for! Our first flight was delayed because the plane wouldn't start at IAD. It was 45 minutes late. This caused us to miss the connection in Washington by 2 minutes. The plane was still there, had just pushed back, but they wouldn't bring it back - something about luggage and it not making the connection. OK - so we are booked on the 3 pm out of IAD. Well, due to congestion in Newark the 3 pm didn't leave until 4:45, and we got to EWR at 6 pm. We were supposed to be there befor 2, and our brother, who got there at 2 on US Air, had to wait for us. 4 hours is a long time to kill anywhere, especially an airport. We rushed to the viewing, made the funeral the next day, and headed back to the airport for our 2:20 departure. Well, the plane pushed back almost on time, but we had to hold for 30 minutes on the apron for congestion in Washington. We get to Washington and are ready to get home on the 5:10 to CAE. Wow, we pushed back early, but sat on the apron for 20 minutes with no explanation at all.

So I booked 4 flights and the only one on time was the one that we missed. And, it was the only one on time at all that day. I spent more time getting to NJ then being in NJ.

I have no complaints with the actual flights, or the flight crews (they were great - the one stewardess even gave out free beer and wine while we sat on the apron in DC. Drinks and snacks were plentiful. The ground personnel, however, could use an improvement. I didn't need to know that the plane I was about to get on was held up bt an engine that wouldn't start. Similarly they didn't need to announce to the folks flying to Jacksonville, Fl, that their plane had a leaking fuel cell and that boarding would begin after the spill was cleaned up. No way am I getting on that plane.

That's my FlyI story. Has anyone had a similar trip with them?

Sorry, your post is totally bogus. Perhaps you are not used to flying into EWR or IAD but 'sitting on the apron for 30 minutes' is absolutely routine, whether is Indy, UAL, or anyone else. A groundstop into EWR for congestion is also a daily occurence. And both circumstances are out of the airline's control.

The only legit complaint you have is the mechanical. Are you telling me you've never had a mechanical on another airline? NO airline short of AA on the Amazing Race is going to bring back and aircraft after its pushed back and been released by ATC. Once you have your doors closed, you can get a slot, and no pilot in their right mind is going to give that up.

And then you complain because they told you TOO much about why you're delayed, yet when you're on the runway for 20 minutes and you don't hear anything you want an explanation?

I'm sorry, I'm just not feeling it here. It sounds like FlyI staff did everything in their power to alleviate better your experience. I've had plenty worse experiences that that on virtually every other airline.

I just had the dubious pleasure of using Independence Air and I don't think I'll be back. I had to go to a funeral in NJ from Columbia, SC, and picked FlyI due to the low airfares (half of Delta & Continental). Well, it is true, you get what you pay for! Our first flight was delayed because the plane wouldn't start at IAD. It was 45 minutes late. This caused us to miss the connection in Washington by 2 minutes. The plane was still there, had just pushed back, but they wouldn't bring it back - something about luggage and it not making the connection. OK - so we are booked on the 3 pm out of IAD. Well, due to congestion in Newark the 3 pm didn't leave until 4:45, and we got to EWR at 6 pm. We were supposed to be there befor 2, and our brother, who got there at 2 on US Air, had to wait for us. 4 hours is a long time to kill anywhere, especially an airport. We rushed to the viewing, made the funeral the next day, and headed back to the airport for our 2:20 departure. Well, the plane pushed back almost on time, but we had to hold for 30 minutes on the apron for congestion in Washington. We get to Washington and are ready to get home on the 5:10 to CAE. Wow, we pushed back early, but sat on the apron for 20 minutes with no explanation at all.

So I booked 4 flights and the only one on time was the one that we missed. And, it was the only one on time at all that day. I spent more time getting to NJ then being in NJ.

I have no complaints with the actual flights, or the flight crews (they were great - the one stewardess even gave out free beer and wine while we sat on the apron in DC. Drinks and snacks were plentiful. The ground personnel, however, could use an improvement. I didn't need to know that the plane I was about to get on was held up bt an engine that wouldn't start. Similarly they didn't need to announce to the folks flying to Jacksonville, Fl, that their plane had a leaking fuel cell and that boarding would begin after the spill was cleaned up. No way am I getting on that plane.

That's my FlyI story. Has anyone had a similar trip with them?

Welcome To Newark. With the recent build up of Continental, I believe that it is becoming to comparable to La Guardia before the "slottery."

Sorry, your post is totally bogus.

Bogus, if I am not mistaken, means false and I can assure you that this is a TRUE story. What are you, a stockholder in FlyI?

Bogus, if I am not mistaken, means false and I can assure you that this is a TRUE story. What are you, a stockholder in FlyI?

Sorry, but I have to agree with the others posters. Ground holds are a regular occurrence on the east coast. It stinks that they didn't hold your connection on the northbound leg but in reality they can't since holding a flight for a couple connectors in a hub would be disastrous in a hub-spoke system. Things don't always work out perfect but I don't think Indy did you wrong here.

btw I am by no means a FlyI stockholder and I think their business model is doomed but in this instance they didn't do anything wrong.

NO airline short of AA on the Amazing Race is going to bring back and aircraft after its pushed back and been released by ATC.
I'm surprised someone else remembers that.

It'll be interesting to see the on-time stats for the airlines for August when those are published. With some nasty weather delays earlier this month and the NW strike, those will probably play havoc with the numbers.

Bogus, if I am not mistaken, means false and I can assure you that this is a TRUE story. What are you, a stockholder in FlyI?

When I used to work for United Express out of ORD it was not uncommon for flights to be delayed several hours due to ATC congestion. Delays due to ATC congestion are not isolated to FLYI or EWR, they plague all the airlines that fly into congested airports.

Sorry, but I have to agree with the others posters. Ground holds are a regular occurrence on the east coast. It stinks that they didn't hold your connection on the northbound leg but in reality they can't since holding a flight for a couple connectors in a hub would be disastrous in a hub-spoke system. Things don't always work out perfect but I don't think Indy did you wrong here.

btw I am by no means a FlyI stockholder and I think their business model is doomed but in this instance they didn't do anything wrong.

I've often seen a flight held for a few connects by WN in BWI and by United. Since DH is flying mostly 50 seat RJs, 5 misconnects represent 10% of the plane's capacity, much more than 5 pax on a 130 seat 737 would be.

The delays experienced by OP are fairly common in the northeast. However, this is the environment that Indy is working with. Their service is primarily short haul up and down the east coast, with just a few longer haul flights out west. (And additional long haul flights wont be happening for a while after the airbus delivery delays) A three hour delay on a transcon is not nearly as painful as a three hour delay on a short hop.
They also have the competitive environment to worry about. It looks like it took OP over 5.5 hours to get from DC to Newark. The numerous busses can take you from DC to New York in five hours for $20. For speed, Amtrak travels from DC to Newark in under 3 hours - and undercuts DH on walk-up fares. Both buses and trains are much more frequent than the planes. There is also the personal automobile to worry about.

I've often seen a flight held for a few connects by WN in BWI and by United. Since DH is flying mostly 50 seat RJs, 5 misconnects represent 10% of the plane's capacity, much more than 5 pax on a 130 seat 737 would be.

Airlines walk a very thin tight-rope when they start holding flights for delayed passengers. For one thing, you run the risk of hitting the first domino that will delay even more flights and misconnect even more passengers than you would originally save. For example, lets say that DH holds a flight going to CAE for 20 minutes for 5 connectors that are running late. The CAE flight is scheduled for a 30 min turn in CAE for the return trip back to IAD, but because of the delay they now only have 10 mins to de-board, fuel, clean, board, etc... the flight back to IAD, which causes a delay on that flight. The majority of people flying from smaller airports like CAE are connecting thru to a destination other than IAD, so now you might have a situation where half (or more) of the passengers flying from CAE - IAD are running late and will either miss their connection or cause several other flights to run late. So you saved the connections for 10% of the original flight, but caused 50+% of the next flight to misconnect.
Airlines take lots of factors into consideration when deciding which flights to hold for connecting passengers and which not to (availability to protect on another flight, downline effects to other flights / passengers, etc... ), but it is a hard decision - and hard to accept, especially if you are left behind.

I've often seen a flight held for a few connects by WN in BWI and by United. Since DH is flying mostly 50 seat RJs, 5 misconnects represent 10% of the plane's capacity, much more than 5 pax on a 130 seat 737 would be.

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What I meant by bogus was the OP's feeling that FlyI treated him wrong.

How many of those SWA's flights you've seen hold were to high capacity airports? At BWI, I'm guessing not many. On an afternoon flight, if you're able to get a slot out of IAD to EWR you've got to take it. Flights routinely sit around waiting for that precious slot, and when they get it they've got to GO. I've heard via ATC numerous aircraft lose their slots because they didn't have their numbers together or something like that only to be stuck waiting (and burning fuel) for another 20 minutes).

Look, it isn't like I'm not sympathetic to the OP in that he had a bad experience, but his post is not an indictment of Independence Air, its an indictment of modern air travel on the east coast and his tone makes me think he's not used to this.

And, by the way, I'm certainly not a FlyI share-holder!

I've often seen a flight held for a few connects by WN in BWI and by United. Since DH is flying mostly 50 seat RJs, 5 misconnects represent 10% of the plane's capacity, much more than 5 pax on a 130 seat 737 would be.

As spampurse points out, there are far too many down line considerations that travelers forget/ignore.


They also have the competitive environment to worry about. It looks like it took OP over 5.5 hours to get from DC to Newark. The numerous busses can take you from DC to New York in five hours for $20. For speed, Amtrak travels from DC to Newark in under 3 hours - and undercuts DH on walk-up fares. Both buses and trains are much more frequent than the planes. There is also the personal automobile to worry about.

I fail to see how alternative modes of transportation from DC to NYC have anything to do with OP problems.

I fail to see how alternative modes of transportation from DC to NYC have anything to do with OP problems.
The alternate modes provide service to New York at lower cost and less time than it took OP. They provide a serious means of competition for FlyI. Amtrak's walk-ups are about half of DH's. However, DH is about an hour to 90 minutes faster. Add delays and time can be similar for passengers traveling from Dulles to Elizabeth. (Passengers from many parts of the DC and NY likely never ever considered the flight - the ground transportation + security at the airport would remove the advantages of slightly shorter flight time.) Why does it matter? Delays critically damage the local competition. Thus, connections become more important. Misconnects add to delays and create additional problems.

If delays are frequent in the markets served, some slack should be built in to the schedule (people don't complain if the flight arrives a little early.) A great in-flight experience doesn't do much good if 80% of the trip is spent waiting at the airport.

Is there much that FlyI could do? Well, they could try to make the airport experience better. But that can only go so far... Other than that, they are somewhat stuck in a delay-prone east coast with short flights. Not the best environment for a short-hop connecting hub.

The alternate modes provide service to New York at lower cost and less time than it took OP.

The OP's origin was Columbia, SC.

The OP's origin was Columbia, SC.
Sorry - I wasn't clear there. The point I was making was that the total time (from arrival at IAD until arrival at EWR) would have been less via ground transportation than via his flight experience.

Then I jumped ot the point about delays being an impedement to local traffic.

Short haul service is difficult today, especially when it involves major cities that are served by alternate forms of transportation. Unfortunately, these major cities are part of the overall picture that is needed to serve the smaller markets.

The key point being - things like that happen. However, they impact FlyI to a much greater extent than they impact many other carriers (who tend to fly longer hauls or more point-to-point service.)

One other interesting point - it appears that the other airlines were not making any effort to compete with FlyI...

[QUOTE=L Dude 7]Sorry - I wasn't clear there. The point I was making was that the total time (from arrival at IAD until arrival at EWR) would have been less via ground transportation than via his flight experience.QUOTE]

I don't think I would even consider flying to IAD and then taking Amtrak to Newark. The whole point of air travel is spped. Indeed, we could have driven to NJ in less time then we spent traveling that day, but you don't know that starting out.

And, perhaps my indictment of Independence Air was a bit severe, but I have flown other airlines to the area without the delays, or maintenance issues, and especially not leaking fuel cells.

Well, due to congestion in Newark the 3 pm didn't leave until 4:45, and we got to EWR at 6 pm. We were supposed to be there befor 2, and our brother, who got there at 2 on US Air, had to wait for us.
I have flown flyi twice, and I have many friends who have chosen to take advantage of their "low fares." Everyone i talk to about the airline, including myself has had a HORRIBLE experience. I was 4 hours late out of GSP, and 2 hours late(after missing my first connection) out of iad! Being a typical usairways passanger, flyi had a lot to live up to, and failed completely! Oh yea, it also sucks sitting on the ramp in a plane smaller than my car for an hour.
P.S. Hows Lake Murray doing this season?

but I have flown other airlines to the area without the delays, or maintenance issues, and especially not leaking fuel cells.

I really hate to be the one to have to break it to you, but if you have spent any amount of time flying on any airline, you have probably flown on an airplane that has had a lot worse than a leaking fuel cell in its past. People don't like to hear it, but airplanes are just like any other man-made mechanical invention - occasionally they break. That's where passengers have to trust that the airline they fly has a knowledgeable and trustworthy group of mechanics that will not let a plane fly unless they are 100% sure it can complete its flight safely.

I really hate to be the one to have to break it to you, but if you have spent any amount of time flying on any airline, you have probably flown on an airplane that has had a lot worse than a leaking fuel cell in its past. People don't like to hear it.....

That's my point exactly about the fuel cell - NO one wanted to hear it. Why cause consern among the passengers - get it fixed and get them on their way with as little delay as possible. That ws the one situation that FlyI could have been more discreet about.

I did forget to mention, and I don't think this can be passed off on anything other than FlyI, the only flight I did not have an exit row seat the women seated at the exit came on the aircraft in a wheelchair. Now, how does that make you feel? The flight attendant came to give her spiel and asked the usual questions, made the comment about the wheelchair, and said there was nothing she could do about it. Any comments on this issue? :confused:

I did forget to mention, and I don't think this can be passed off on anything other than FlyI, the only flight I did not have an exit row seat the women seated at the exit came on the aircraft in a wheelchair. Now, how does that make you feel? The flight attendant came to give her spiel and asked the usual questions, made the comment about the wheelchair, and said there was nothing she could do about it. Any comments on this issue? :confused:

I'm not sure how this is FLYI's fault again. One of two things probably happened, the lady in the wheelchair either did not specify on her reservation that she had a special need and the computer didn't know any better than to assign her that seat, or (more likely) she purposefully picked that seat when she checked in and selected her seat online. I don't know what the FAA guidelines are for refusing a person an exit row based on perceived inability to perform the duties, but I am assuming that if the flight attendant asked if she was able to perform the duties (and I assume that she was mobile enough to walk herself onto the plane) and she said yes there isn't too much that FLYI could do about it.
I agree that if this lady had to use a wheelchair to get to the plane, I wouldn't want her in the emergency exit row on my plane. But that being said, I'm sure airlines have to be extra careful at these sort of situations to avoid discrimination claims.