Independence Air iClub - FlyI ripped in NY Times column

You can read the sordid details here (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/16/business/16road.html).

Sounded like someone was a bit grumpy in the first place. Comeon, 11 movies and you don't like ANY of them?

As much as I enjoy Joe Sharky his column didn't say anything that regular flyers of DH have not yet experienced.

fwf- The movies this month do suck. From the website->

King’s Ransom
• Monster-in-Law
• Miss Congeniality 2
• Matchstick Men
• A Lot Like Love
• The Pacifier
• Hitchiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
• Ice Princess
• There’s Something About Mary (edited)
• Minority Report
• Fever Pitch
• The Sandlot 2

Watching "There's Something About Mary" edited is probably as good as watching the TV version of The Blues Brothers.

Heck, there are at least 2 movies I'd watch on the list. Hollywood has put a lot of tripe out lately.

I'm sorry, but its not a quarter mile while between the farthest CRJ gate and the farthest A319 gate at IAD. Not even close.

And more than a few people might argue about Continental keeping its fares "competitively low," seeing how that is predicated on COMPETITION.

You can read the sordid details here (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/16/business/16road.html).

Sounds like someone is trying to get UGS without all the BIS miles or revenue.

Seriously though: I know the FlyI guy. He's a friend of mine and I was there taping his performance at the DC Improv's open-mic night.

FWIW, I'd like to see Mr. Sharky get up on stage and try to get some laughs. It ain't easy, I'll tell you that. Any person who has ever tried stand-up comedy has a whole different perspective on the whole profession. They also keep their mouth shut when someone bombs. Because it happens when you don't have a team of writers and a studio audience. A lot. A whole bunch. In fact, probably the first year that you are getting started, you'll bomb almost continuously. Dave is a great guy and he didn't deserve the cheap shot.

His comments are really juvenile otherwise. I mean, complaining about being kept in the dark at the gate? Or about flying a teeny tiny little plane? Or the meager snacks?

Yeesh. How come he isn't talking about Delta? Or United? Or the impending strike at Northwest? Remember the US Airways baggage fiasco? I sure do. Ask me if I'd fly US airways for FREE.

At a minimum, the FlyI folks are working hard. They are giving it their all. And I TOTALLY appreciate that.

I'm sorry, but its not a quarter mile while between the farthest CRJ gate and the farthest A319 gate at IAD. Not even close.
Is this true if it's between the farthest A gates and that new B gate all the way down by DL across from the bar? I took off from there a week or two ago (it was a VERY cheap ticket) ... that is a long haul from the escalators, much less the far end of Terminal A.

I, too, read Joe Sharkey's article today, and quite frankly, didn't get the point. It was handed to me by a passenger on the flight I was working -- factual with most of the history and statistics (rare for aviation reporting) but cyncially absurd in reader interest and content. What was the point? Maybe I should have checked the manifest to see if Mr. Sharkey was touting his absurd opinions to a very hardworking, loyal, caring employee . . .

But none of this had occurred to me two weeks ago when I booked a one-way flight on Independence Air from Newark to Los Angeles. Normally, when I fly to Los Angeles, I fly Continental Airlines, which keeps its transcontinental fares competitively low out of its Newark hub

What BS; CO minimum published fare is $144 (14 AP) while the YB is $709, their Y is $1527 and full F is $2300.

Mr. Sharkey has posted on Flyertalk before, in case anyone is interested...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3366210&postcount=36

I, too, read Joe Sharkey's article today, and quite frankly, didn't get the point. It was handed to me by a passenger on the flight I was working -- factual with most of the history and statistics (rare for aviation reporting) but cyncially absurd in reader interest and content. What was the point? Maybe I should have checked the manifest to see if Mr. Sharkey was touting his absurd opinions to a very hardworking, loyal, caring employee . . .

I have to agree. If this was a trip "report" like he said, it wasn't very good by anyone's standards, much less a person who writes newspaper articles for a living. Maybe he should have titled his article "Who Reports on Coast to Coast Flights and Isn't Very Interesting?".

Q: What Flies Coast to Coast and Isn't Very Funny?

A: Joe Sharkey

:rolleyes:

I thought his article was great and spot on.

Also it sounds like at least one person miss read it -- the way I saw it he was complementing FlyI Guy saying he had a better chance as a comedian then working for FLYi.

:rolleyes:

I thought his article was great and spot on.

Also it sounds like at least one person miss read it -- the way I saw it he was complementing FlyI Guy saying he had a better chance as a comedian then working for FLYi.

Yeah yeah yeah....I got the joke the first time I read it. If I had a dollar every time someone said that to me when I was trying comedy.....
.....I wouldn't need to try comedy to get rich.

It still sucked.

Frankly, I thought his trip report was totally craptastic. I've flown Indy Air now a total of (2) two times round-trip and I have to say that each flight was in every way as uneventful and normal as any Ted/United Express flight ever was.

That is...BOring. Which is exactly as I like it.

The in-flight entertainment method was at least innovative. I got to watch a few movies that I hadn't had a chance to catch in the theatre or on DVD so.....it was nice to watch with my personal headphones, etc.

People seem to be forgetting that it will be much easier for FlyI to get their act together than United. It's been, what, two years in BK11 now? How about a world where United doesn't exist and LCCs rule the day?

:Shudder: All those MILES! My status!

Whateva!

People seem to be forgetting that it will be much easier for FlyI to get their act together than United. It's been, what, two years in BK11 now?
:confused:

Are you suggesting that if FlyI files for bankruptcy they will have a much better chance of reorganizing and becoming profitable than UA has of emerging and becoming profitable?

:confused:

Are you suggesting that if FlyI files for bankruptcy they will have a much better chance of reorganizing and becoming profitable than UA has of emerging and becoming profitable?

No.

What I was saying is that the level of effort that Indy Air will have to put into getting their ducks in a row profitability-wise is much lower than United.

If we want to talk about how much money FlyI is losing per quarter, we should balance that against how much money the major carriers are losing during the same time periods.

In essence, the only reason that United and US Airways are still flying is BECAUSE they went the BK11 route. I'm not sure that this situation will be repeated with FlyI but if it does happen, the revenue/expense gap probably isn't as wide.

People like to kick FlyI because they have some low fares but that isn't really the whole picture with them. There are a lot of things that make them different and their cost structure is much lower than almost any major airline. Are they hitting tough times? NO doubt. The price of fuel has skyrocketed and they are probably taking a hit there. But they are free of some problems that the majors all seem to be having with more frequency these days: labor. I might be worried about flying on Independence Air but it won't be because the ramp workers might strike any minute. Or the mechanics. Or the FA's. Or the pilots.

People are what make the difference. I think the folks at FlyI are keeping their eye on the prize and I wish them luck. They sure are giving it everything they've got.

What I was saying is that the level of effort that Indy Air will have to put into getting their ducks in a row profitability-wise is much lower than United.

Ok.
I disagree. Indy would have lost money even if they got fuel for free last quarter AND had no special items. UA barely lost money.


If we want to talk about how much money FlyI is losing per quarter, we should balance that against how much money the major carriers are losing during the same time periods.

UA is a massive carrier. It isn't about how much money they are losing. It is about how much money they are losing relative to their size. UA's operating margin was (IIRC) less than -1%. They were very close to being breakeven.

FlyI's operating margin was something like -80% (IIRC). They are no where close to breaking even.


In essence, the only reason that United and US Airways are still flying is BECAUSE they went the BK11 route. I'm not sure that this situation will be repeated with FlyI but if it does happen, the revenue/expense gap probably isn't as wide.
This is true, because UA/US probably couldn't have afforded their pension requirements. But their revenue/expense gaps were never like what FlyI is seeing.



People like to kick FlyI because they have some low fares but that isn't really the whole picture with them. There are a lot of things that make them different and their cost structure is much lower than almost any major airline. Are they hitting tough times? NO doubt. The price of fuel has skyrocketed and they are probably taking a hit there. But they are free of some problems that the majors all seem to be having with more frequency these days: labor. I might be worried about flying on Independence Air but it won't be because the ramp workers might strike any minute. Or the mechanics. Or the FA's. Or the pilots.

I agree with most of this, though fuel is still not the main cause of their problems. Plus their overall CASM is much higher than other airlines, because of the CRJs. I like FlyI a lot and I hope they can make it, I wish I could fly on them more (my travel is all leisure) but I only have so much vacation time. There is not much to complain about with their operation. However, their decent product, good fares and good operation aren't making any money for their stockholders. Which means they are pricing their product wrong or their costs are too high, or both. By bleeding cash they are forced to price even more irrationally to just get cash in the door.


People are what make the difference. I think the folks at FlyI are keeping their eye on the prize and I wish them luck. They sure are giving it everything they've got.
Again, I agree, but their management team has completely messed the company up. Fuel is only hastening their demise. Perhaps if fuel weren't so expensive they would be able to right the ship with more time to figure out where their non-fuel costs are higher than expected and get a grasp of revenue management.

US and UA had many opportunities to cut costs under chapter 11 reorganization (e.g. high wages, defined benefit pension plans, massive debt and underutilized facilities). What changes would/could take place at FlyI to lower costs?

:confused:

Are you suggesting that if FlyI files for bankruptcy they will have a much better chance of reorganizing and becoming profitable than UA has of emerging and becoming profitable?


UAL wont go out of biz they have too much clout. Basically the gov will bail them out, and can lose money indefinitely. While I am a student and enjoyed flying 26 segments for $250 with the glide pass, the truth is no one will do anything about it. Indy's real problem is they are not taken seriously ie. they have a promo with a comedy club. Their time table book has lame jokes from 'the flyi guy' if they want people to take them seriously they need to act that way. What flyi really needs to do is give elite status to frequent customers.