Northwest WorldPerks (Discontinued Program) - Flight Attendant Stealing Wine and Liquor

I just got off a flight yesterday and was sitting in 1B. Just before landing, a FA came up the aisle with her rolling bag, proceeded to raid the liquor cart, and placed a bag with a bottle of wine and a few minis in her rolling bag. I even overheard her saying something to the other flight attendant like "there are still three left, are you getting one" referring I assume to the wine. Then she wheeled it back down the aisle (she was seated at the rear).

How rampant is this type of behavior? It's my first time witnessing it.

How should I report this and who should I report it to?

I've only noticed it with bottled water

I have also seen it a few times with water and didn't think anything of it...I guess because bottled water isn't expensive, but wine and liquor are.

I have also seen it a few times with water and didn't think anything of it...I guess because bottled water isn't expensive, but wine and liquor are.

I agree. The bottled water is no big deal. As for the wine, there was a previous comment that opened bottles of wine would be disacarded after each segment. I wondered if this were actually true since it didn't seem to make much sense. The major question would be the bottles of liquor. If so, it would clearly be theft.

What is the point of posting this?

Unfortunately, theft happens everywhere and at every company. Reporting it most likely won't do anything and it is your word against the F/As.

What is the point of posting this?

I think the point is: NW is asking many employees to take large cuts if they want the company to stay in business.

The OP wants to know if this is one bad apple, or if it's commonplace.

It sure used to be commonplace 10+ years ago - many FA viewed it as an entitlement. I've heard stories from many ex-FAs about late night parties fueled by minis. I suspect it's far far less comon now.

It sure used to be commonplace 10+ years ago - many FA viewed it as an entitlement. I've heard stories from many ex-FAs about late night parties fueled by minis. I suspect it's far far less comon now.

Looks like there is the answer :)

The OP wants to know if this is one bad apple, or if it's commonplace.
I would think that the answer is obvious. :rolleyes:

The OP's post claims that (1) a possible crime took place and (2) questions the possibility that it is widespraed. Does not take long to imply that FAs steal stuff all the time. I just do not see the point of such a post.

What is the point of posting this?

Unfortunately, theft happens everywhere and at every company. Reporting it most likely won't do anything and it is your word against the F/As.

So this makes theft ok?

Writing a bad check for a bottle of liquor or wine at a liquor store with no intention of repaying it (theft by deception) is theft.

Shoplifting a bottle of liquor or wine from the corner bottle shop is theft.

An employee stealing a bottle of liquor or wine from their employer is theft.

The above three are the same, as far as I'm concerned.

Theft is theft.

SDF_Traveler

We have some good discussion here. Over all, I would think this is not wide spread, I see too much paper work and counting going on. I always thought there should be a system of accounting for empty bottles and it surprises me that there isn't. Over the years, I have had FA give me minis for the road, a couple of months ago, I needed a bottle of wine to take to a client dinner and a FA was kind enough to give me a bottle since we were running late and I couldn't stop by a shop. Also, I know there are plenty of others including me that have gotten several bottles of champagne or wine when deplaning. I realize there is a difference between a gift and stealing, but seeing the generous stance of some FA's I would turn a blind eye rather than accuse the FA, afterall, it will simply turn into a I said they said with the employee, supervisor and shop steward.

I realize there is a difference between a gift and stealing, but seeing the generous stance of some FA's I would turn a blind eye rather than accuse the FA, afterall, it will simply turn into a I said they said with the employee, supervisor and shop steward.

Very good point. I don't know what NW and others are doing, but if it's at all common you would think the savings would add up to much more than the cost of the spinzels they got rid of in coach.

I have also seen it a few times with water and didn't think anything of it...I guess because bottled water isn't expensive, but wine and liquor are.

Are you sure it's bottled water?

I once went up to the galley to pour some for an elderly lady sitting next to me. Handed it to her, and she said "this is the finest water I've ever tasted."

Turns out it was straight vodka.

Flight attendant 'wondered' if someone had dipped into her 'layover' stash when I probed. I was more amused than anything.

Was the best service I had received in a while...and she let that elderly woman stay in her First seat after following me down the jetway, and 'upgrading' herself after the agent denied a companion req. because she weas on an award ticket.

Gotta love the Southern hospitality going into Memphis.

So this makes theft ok?

Writing a bad check for a bottle of liquor or wine at a liquor store with no intention of repaying it (theft by deception) is theft.

Shoplifting a bottle of liquor or wine from the corner bottle shop is theft.

An employee stealing a bottle of liquor or wine from their employer is theft.

The above three are the same, as far as I'm concerned.

Theft is theft.

SDF_Traveler

I wasn't justifying theft. Of course it is not o.k. and should not be condoned.

What is the point of posting this?

Unfortunately, theft happens everywhere and at every company. Reporting it most likely won't do anything and it is your word against the F/As.


in the interest of full disclosure, I believe it is the case that "headstrong" is a FA.

reporting it makes sense, if you are concerned about the issue as a NWA customer, shareholder, or just plain concerned citizen. if the FA in question really is doing this, there is a chance that it happens more than once. the second or third time the issue is report, it begins to look a lot less like a "your word against the FA" situation.

I think I tend to be a little more cautious about perception. The airline industry is an interesting industry in that we have rules we must follow that don't make sense to a lot of people (especially those that don't fly a lot). Having been the victim of one such pax letter and being disciplined for doing something I was (by federal law) required to do makes me a little on edge when pax accuse F/As of doing something questionable.

It certainly seems odd that she rolled her bag up to the bev. cart and made the comments that she did but do you really know the whole story? I have loaded a garbage bag up with minis and beer and taken it to the back to restock the carts in the back of the plane many times. I'm sure it looked like I was stealing.

I just wonder what is to be gained by a pax writing a letter about this incident. If she is in fact stealing, she will be turned in by an employee who actually sees her doing this. Our union does not protect thiefs and those who drink on the job.

What is the point of posting this?

Unfortunately, theft happens everywhere and at every company. Reporting it most likely won't do anything and it is your word against the F/As.
The point of posting it is to raise awareness and to keep everyone (NW employees and PAX) honest. If we have to swallow reductions in service and work slowdowns brought on by pending union disputes which are brought on by financial concerns, we need to hear about this sort of thing.

-Alan

This sounds like an isolated incident.

I don't condone stealing, but the point has been made, lets not beat a dead horse into the ground. Its time to move on to the many other issues affect NWA these days.

RC

When I was a boy I worked for United, and remember an f/a colleague who was fired for taking a pint of milk to her layover hotel. They can be very strict...when they find out!

This sounds like an isolated incident.

I don't condone stealing, but the point has been made, lets not beat a dead horse into the ground. Its time to move on to the many other issues affect NWA these days.

RC

It is not an isolated incident, as it happens on a regular basis at NW and other airlines. While it may not affect the balance of your WP account, employee theft can impact customer and in-cabin service.

The F/A could be subject to disciplinary action or termination for these type of actions. In reality, probably nothing would happen if they were reported by a passenger.

We recently had a F/A terminated because she was caught using the toothpaste from the WBC amenity pack (sorry, can't remember its proper name). The interesting thing is that she was a member of the service committee and was given one of the new packs at a service meeting. So why was she fired for using something the company gave her? Because it gave the perception that she was stealing.

We recently had a F/A terminated because she was caught using the toothpaste from the WBC amenity pack (sorry, can't remember its proper name). The interesting thing is that she was a member of the service committee and was given one of the new packs at a service meeting. So why was she fired for using something the company gave her? Because it gave the perception that she was stealing.
Sounds like grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit if the kit was a gift from the company.

NW routinely searches inflight crews looking for bottled water, liquor, spinzels, toothpaste, etc taken from the a/c.

FA's that are found to have provisioned goods are disciplined (terminated) so this issue is being dealt with.

From what I've heard there is zero tolerance.

I have noticed FA's bring other brands of bottled water and soft drinks to differentiate what they are consuming from the provisions NWA supplies to the a/c.

RC

NW routinely searches inflight crews looking for bottled water, liquor, spinzels, toothpaste, etc taken from the a/c. Physically searched? That's awful! And I thought my employer was intrusive.

Never seen it. Report it like a bad FA.

It is not an isolated incident, as it happens on a regular basis at NW and other airlines. While it may not affect the balance of your WP account, employee theft can impact customer and in-cabin service.

The F/A could be subject to disciplinary action or termination for these type of actions. In reality, probably nothing would happen if they were reported by a passenger.

I don't know what a report from a passenger would do, however I've seen an FA steal a bottle of wine from FC.

On a flight DTW-LAX last year, prior to landing, the lead FA, in view of the FC cabin, takes a bottle of white wine and pours it into her empty water bottle. Her "water bottle" then goes into her carry-on and it most certainly wasn't water in the "water bottle".

Unfortunately I didn't say anything when it happened. First, it's unprofessional behavior of the FA to do this in front of the FC cabin, and secondly it's theft.

I doubt the company would sit on their butt and do nothing if the above is reported via the proper channels by a customer. Chances are if she does it once (seemed to have the routine down to me), she'll do it again. After a few reports from a few customers, they may decide to do something.

According to you, if it's not an isolated incident, it needs to be cracked down on because that is $$'s out the window; small leaks sink big ships as they say and it does impact the company bottom line, along with customer and in-cabin service.

Perhaps they can bring spinzel's back in Y? @:-)

SDF_Traveler

<<takes a bottle of white wine and pours it into her empty water bottle>>

Do you mean a wine bottle that was already open?

dennis

[QUOTE=sxf24]It is not an isolated incident, as it happens on a regular basis at NW and other airlines.

I'm just curious how you know it is not isolated. I fly every week and I've never seen this (ok, well, I have seen water bottles come out of bags and they were the NWA brand) but other than that, I am just curious how you know it is wide-spread. You may be in the industry or have friends. I know a lot of retail theft goes on by employees because I have a friend that is in Loss Prevention at a department store, so I'm sure the airline could be similar.

Physically searched? That's awful! And I thought my employer was intrusive.

This is very common in many work places. In my call centers, we frequently have searches for property and weapons. In retail loss prevention checks employee bags all of the time. It just comes with the territory.

It is not an isolated incident, as it happens on a regular basis at NW and other airlines.

I'm just curious how you know it is not isolated. I fly every week and I've never seen this (ok, well, I have seen water bottles come out of bags and they were the NWA brand) but other than that, I am just curious how you know it is wide-spread. You may be in the industry or have friends. I know a lot of retail theft goes on by employees because I have a friend that is in Loss Prevention at a department store, so I'm sure the airline could be similar.

I have witnessed theft first hand, heard from friends in the industry and enjoyed mini-bottles (not without guilt) at many parties.

This is very common in many work places. In my call centers, we frequently have searches for property and weapons. In retail loss prevention checks employee bags all of the time. It just comes with the territory.

You mean to say the TSA is handling security at your call centers? ;)

You mean to say the TSA is handling security at your call centers? ;)

Obviously not, he never said theft was common. ;)

What is the point of posting this?

Unfortunately, theft happens everywhere and at every company. Reporting it most likely won't do anything and it is your word against the F/As.

This is nonsense. What's the point of your post? If an FA stole my wallet in my plain view, but no one else saw, it could still be my word against his/hers. I guess I should just do nothing, no matter what. If someone steals the computer from my office, who cares, after all, it happens everywhere and at every company. Incidentally, your bias as an FA, who was wrongly accused, is crystal clear.

For you and fromXYU, the point of posting is that some of us are interested in discussing these topics as is obvious from the thread and even your own participation. Next time, don't waste your time (and that of others) and move on.

This sounds like an isolated incident.

I don't condone stealing, but the point has been made, lets not beat a dead horse into the ground. Its time to move on to the many other issues affect NWA these days.
RC

I agree it's getting uncomfortable, can we (hide) move this over to the news forum? Or maybe at least lock it out and tell every one that it has nothing to do with NW? :D

Didn't a FA (forgot the airline) get fired for taking a carton of milk off the plane in her bag. She also happened to be an elected union officer.

I worked for NW in the late 1990's. When auditing some P&L numbers for the sale of inflight beverages, where we had a consistent loss, I was told that there was a relatively high theft rate from the FA's, but they just considered it a cost of doing business, as the overall loss in the big scheme of things was not much. Apparently auditing it properly would cost more than the potential savings, and the flight attendent union refused to even discuss the issue. That was in good times though, my guess is that now they are cracking down due to financial circumstances.

I have witnessed theft first hand, heard from friends in the industry and enjoyed mini-bottles (not without guilt) at many parties.

Ditto on all counts, although not in the past 10 years (who's ever known a poor college student to feel guilt over free booze.) I'm hoping the post about searches (although, it's sad that's what it took) is true and the bad apples have been weeded out.

This is nonsense. What's the point of your post? If an FA stole my wallet in my plain view, but no one else saw, it could still be my word against his/hers. I guess I should just do nothing, no matter what. If someone steals the computer from my office, who cares, after all, it happens everywhere and at every company. Incidentally, your bias as an FA, who was wrongly accused, is crystal clear.

For you and fromXYU, the point of posting is that some of us are interested in discussing these topics as is obvious from the thread and even your own participation. Next time, don't waste your time (and that of others) and move on.

A bit harsh, don't you think? Besides you completely missed the point.

As we all are aware, there are many hardworking and honest FA's and this topic insinuates that there is a pervasive problem with multiple FA's.

I think we should back off, this discussion is offensive.

RC

For you and fromXYU, the point of posting is that some of us are interested in discussing these topics as is obvious from the thread and even your own participation. Next time, don't waste your time (and that of others) and move on.
That's from someone who was upset about perceived personal attacks! :confused:

If I can not post an opinion that is different from your point of view you may want to stop participating in an open forum. :confused:

As we all are aware, there are many hardworking and honest FA's and this topic insinuates that there is a pervasive problem with multiple FA's.

I think we should back off, this discussion is offensive.

RC

Theft does not occur on a regular basis, but I wouldn't say it is exactly a rare or isolated action.

I don't think any one is insinuating all FAs are habitual thiefs. We are simply discussing a NW related topic in a general manner.

P.S. You should not use an apostrophe with plural nouns (FA's).

P.P.S. Feel free to edit the "offensive" content in my post, as it will probably be my last on the NW forum.

I would think that the answer is obvious. :rolleyes:

The OP's post claims that (1) a possible crime took place and (2) questions the possibility that it is widespraed. Does not take long to imply that FAs steal stuff all the time. I just do not see the point of such a post.

To answer your questions, it seemed like a crime to me and I am simply wondering if it is widespread.

Finally, if you re-read my post, I do not imply that it is widespread. I have been a Plat flyer for over 6 years now and have logged well over 600k butt in seat miles during that time. I noted in my original post that this was my first time witnessing it and was wondering if others have had similar experiences.

I have not filed a complaint yet and was wondering what the opinions of other FTers are. That was the point of the post.

It certainly seems odd that she rolled her bag up to the bev. cart and made the comments that she did but do you really know the whole story? I have loaded a garbage bag up with minis and beer and taken it to the back to restock the carts in the back of the plane many times. I'm sure it looked like I was stealing.



I was in a good position in 1B to witness the entire thing. For full disclosure, her rolling bag was in the galley area in front of me so I could not see it, but I did actually see her put the bottles in a grey plastic bag, have the discussion with other FA, walk across the aisle with the bag in hand, heard her zip her rolling bag closed, then immediately wheel her rolling bag back down the aisle to the back of the plane.

If I do complain, I won't mention the flight number or date to protect the FA. This is turning out to be an interesting discussion.

As we all are aware, there are many hardworking and honest FA's and this topic insinuates that there is a pervasive problem with multiple FA's.

I think we should back off, this discussion is offensive.

RC

How do you find this offensive? I am trying to find out what to do in this situation and was simply asking a question.

If you note from my follow-up posts, I did not mean to imply that there are no hard-working FAs...there are a lot of them...that's why I choose to fly NW so frequently that I am a Platinum flyer with them. This was my first time witnessing something like this occur and simply want to know what others' have experienced.

I was in a good position in 1B to witness the entire thing. For full disclosure, her rolling bag was in the galley area in front of me so I could not see it, but I did actually see her put the bottles in a grey plastic bag, have the discussion with other FA, walk across the aisle with the bag in hand, heard her zip her rolling bag closed, then immediately wheel her rolling bag back down the aisle to the back of the plane.
If this happened on "Poopdeck Airlines", and I was the owner and had the complaint in hand from you as the PAX, I would say there was very reasonable grounds to believe that employee theft had occurred. I would confront the employee about the incident. If they confessed, I would immediately dismiss them with cause. If they did not confess, I would discipline the employee with a written warning and put them on probation for six months. Unfortunately, there is some room for doubt as to whether the FA did steal the bottles, as you did not actually see them place the gray bag in their roller bag (unless I am missing something).

Interesting discussion, all be it a bit uncomfortable at the same time. Also, I am using this as a learning forum for myself. I am going to think twice before I bring home an extra pad of post-it notes or pens for my own personal use at home -- which is the corporate pffice equivalent to what we are talking about... isn't it? :)

-Alan

A bit harsh, don't you think? Besides you completely missed the point.

What point? Your original post that this thread has no point, despite many substantive and informative posts, many of which are from yourself? Even your explanation that many FAs get accused of doing something wrong even though they're not is very helpful to not only the original poster, but all of us. If I see a FA doing something that I think may be theft, I would now take what you said into account before forming an opinion.

That's from someone who was upset about perceived personal attacks! :confused:

If I can not post an opinion that is different from your point of view you may want to stop participating in an open forum. :confused:

Where's the personal attack? It's your opinion that this thread has no point. It's my opinion that responding to a question by saying that it has no point is not helpful... certainly not just to the original poster, but also to those of us who are interested in the issue. I did not suggest that you couldn't post an opinion, I suggested that you pay no attention to a thread that you claim has no value. I hardly see how that is a personal attack.

Incidentally, I notice that many people who claim a thread has no point return to post many times... sometimes even in helpful and substantive ways. Kind of odd for a topic that has no point, wouldn't you say?

As we all are aware, there are many hardworking and honest FA's and this topic insinuates that there is a pervasive problem with multiple FA's.

I think we should back off, this discussion is offensive.

RC

I think your comment is inappropriate, especially for a moderator. Firstly, I did not pick up any such insinuation, it is a question from the OP and has been answered repeatedly from better informed persons. Secondly, even if there were such insinuation, that alone cannot be reason for offense. The proper response to false insinuation is educated discussion, which I believe is taking place, and not suppression by a moderator.

Lastly, the presence of hardworking and honest FAs has absolutely no relevance on whether there may be other sorts of FAs. It also has no bearing on whether such theft is commonplace or accepted as a fringe benefit of the job (as I learned was a possibility directly from this thread). I consider myself hardworking and honest, yet I must admit that there are a bunch of pens at home that I do not recall purchasing. How many "honest" people nick supplies, food, drink, and whatever else from their workplace, hotel, or restaurant?

Where's the personal attack? It's your opinion that this thread has no point. It's my opinion that responding to a question by saying that it has no point is not helpful...
This FA has already been found guilty by most of you on this thread. The worse part is that this is one sided story (as always with these types of threads). Some always jump to conclusions and FAs/GAs are found guilty of all sorts of actions that they may have done. Sorry you missed my point.

Regarding RC: I think your comment is inappropriate, especially for a moderator. ...RC feels free to post anything he wants whenever he wants. If he posts as a moderator he always signs as such. Even moderators are entitled to an opinion, wouldn't you say?

This FA has already been found guilty by most of you on this thread. The worse part is that this is one sided story (as always with these types of threads). Some always jump to conclusions and FAs/GAs are found guilty of all sorts of actions that they may have done. Sorry you missed my point.

I missed your point because you did not post and express your point. Sort of easy to accuse others of missing something when you never said it.

RC feels free to post anything he wants whenever he wants. If he posts as a moderator he always signs as such. Even moderators are entitled to an opinion, wouldn't you say?

Of course he is, I never said otherwise.

If I do complain, I won't mention the flight number or date to protect the FA. This is turning out to be an interesting discussion.

What do you hope to gain by complaining about it? NW is well aware that employees steal. If you do complain, it is easy for them to look up your flight information (although I doubt they would have much info. to act on).

NW has taken steps to reduce the amount of employee theft. They recently introduced a few measures that (IMO) will help greatly.

Moderators only have one screen name on FT.

Whenever we post as an individual FTer with our own personal thoughts, feedback, opinions, ideas, etc. it is as a FT member, not as a moderator capacity.

This is widely misunderstood, I have been on the receiving side of many posts that questions comments made as my personal opinion, mistakenly considered an official moderator's position in a topic.

Whenever I post as myself I sign my posts "RC", when I post in an official capacity as a moderator I sign my posts:

Radiocycle
NWA Moderator



I missed your point because you did not post and express your point. Sort of easy to accuse others of missing something when you never said it.



Of course he is, I never said otherwise.

I missed your point because you did not post and express your point. Sort of easy to accuse others of missing something when you never said it.Sorry (again), next time I will try not to be subtle. I will spell it out more clearly. Although most seem to have understood my point.... :rolleyes:

Of course he is, I never said otherwise.You said his post was innapropriate, implying that he should not post such opinions. Did I miss something again?!?!

If you do complain, it is easy for them to look up your flight information (although I doubt they would have much info. to act on).


It may be easy for them to look up my flight information, but given my amount of travel, it would be virtually impossible for them to pinpoint the exact segment.

What do you hope to gain by complaining about it?

I don't hope to gain anything by the complaint. People complain to the airlines pretty consistently about problems that they are already aware of (e.g. delayed flights, cancelations, poor attitudes, etc, etc, etc). Are you implying that since the airline is already aware of all these problems that nobody should ever complain about them???

I feel that it's my right and duty to lodge a complaint, especially given the current financial situation of NWA and the amount of money that I deposit in its pockets on a yearly basis.

NW has taken steps to reduce the amount of employee theft. They recently introduced a few measures that (IMO) will help greatly.

Care to enlighten us on the steps being taken?

I absolutely agree it is your right to complain about this. I have mixed feelings about it being a duty. I do however feel that it is MY duty (as an employee) to do something about if I witness it while working.

My only hope is that when NW receives such complaints that they will take into consideration that the situation may not be as it seems. They tend to hold a customer's view as more valid and that is often times unfortunate.

You said his post was innapropriate, implying that he should not post such opinions. Did I miss something again?!?!

Apparently you did miss something again. :rolleyes: Reread the thread. Is the quote, "I think we should back off" an opinion or an instruction? If from a moderator, I would interpret it as the latter, which I thought was inappropriate.

Of course, now I stand corrected that RC wears a normal FT hat as well... imagine learning even more useful information from "pointless" post. Yet again more reason to advocate discussion rather than suppress it as you would want.

Your "not another pointless post!" responses are comical... I can imagine the colossal struggle that must take place every time you see a new thread that has no point. "Must... must resist clicking mouse... and reading... click. Gasp! Oh horror of horrors! It's another post that I'm not interested in. Nooooooo!!!"

What is the point of posting this?

Unfortunately, theft happens everywhere and at every company. Reporting it most likely won't do anything and it is your word against the F/As.Having been the victim of one such pax letter and being disciplined for doing something I was (by federal law) required to do makes me a little on edge when pax accuse F/As of doing something questionable.

. . . .

I just wonder what is to be gained by a pax writing a letter about this incident. If she is in fact stealing, she will be turned in by an employee who actually sees her doing this. Our union does not protect thiefs and those who drink on the job.So letters to management are certainly not ineffective.

I agree that reporting what is observed is in the best interests of all concerned, except the employee if actually stealing, and perhaps even if not.

If multiple reports of such theft are received, that is strong evidence it is happening.If I do complain, I won't mention the flight number or date to protect the FA.Then there isn't much purpose in letting NW know.

Excellent discussion.

Albeit heated, it is nonetheless thought provoking.


Notably, I have never seen any indications that a flight attendant has nicked any items of value. The intelligent ones would do it most discreetely so I suspect that those observed fall into the alternative category.

My hope is that high morals are prevalent amongst the ranks. It has been my experience that this is so.

I just got off a flight yesterday and was sitting in 1B. Just before landing, a FA came up the aisle with her rolling bag, proceeded to raid the liquor cart, and placed a bag with a bottle of wine and a few minis in her rolling bag. I even overheard her saying something to the other flight attendant like "there are still three left, are you getting one" referring I assume to the wine. Then she wheeled it back down the aisle (she was seated at the rear).

How rampant is this type of behavior? It's my first time witnessing it.

How should I report this and who should I report it to?

This is okay to do. I did the same thing back in Catholic school when I was an altar boy :D

M8

Personally I regard it as a fringe benefit of being an FA.

You can only call it theft depending on the prevailing practice in the particular work place. If indeed it is frequent, as some suggest, for the FAs to put few bits and pieces in their bags then there is nothing wrong with it. It is simply an unwritten fringe benefit of being an FA. If on the otherhand the airline really viewed it as serious theft it would be more infrequent and more concealed (not done as blatantly in view of pax and other PAs).

It is all in mind. We all steal from our employers in the strictest sense. However employers allow a deal of lee-way which goes with 'fringe benefits' of a job - they know they will get it back from you anyway. If workers are allowed little 'perks' here and there they will put in extra time and effort to the employer. If on the otherhand the employee is draconian, for example insists FAs bring their own drinks on board and never touch the pax stuff, then they end up with a demoralised workforce who will work strictly by the rules and will not put any effort or time beyond that required. These are people who are facing pay cuts and increasingly bad working conditions; what is wrong with them having few 'benefits' for their sacrifice? How much do these drinks cost anyway?


It is when you extend beyond the widely percieved, though unwritten, norm that it becomes theft. For example, I am writing this message on a work PC. That is effectively theft, using my employer's equipment and time for my personal business, just as the FA might have used their wine for personal business. My employer won't mind though because they know I put in far more than I take from them, whereas in some companies it would be a disciplinary offence. We have all used work phones for personal business. I work in a hospital - when a staff member has a headache he doesn't walk to riteaid to buy tynelol, he asks the ward nurse for some caps and gets it - that is theft too. In one way or the other we all 'steal' if you call the FA's actions stealing.


Of course if you saw her dismantling a jet engine and loading unto a lorry that is a different affair, but to me it is sad that we are chastising her for taking a few drinks to have on what may have been a lonely or long stop-over. Well to that I say lets make sure we have no logs in our eyes before we start looking for specks in the FAs.

Personally I regard it as a fringe benefit of being an FA.
Even though I don't agree with your statement, I can't sling any mud your way since I think many of us have taken the odd box of paper clips or bottle of correction fluid home from our office environments for our own personal use. :eek:

In either case, I don't think it is ethical to consider it some sort of entitlement or to rationalize it because of our exemplary contributions to our respective employers. If you were head of http://ani90.com, would you want your office staff taking home the office supplies that you purchased (that comes off of your bottom line) home for their own personal use? I know that I would be concerned if anyone at Poopdeck Airlines were doing that to my bottom line. :(

Capiche'?

-Alan

Personally I regard it as a fringe benefit of being an FA.

Of course if you saw her dismantling a jet engine and loading unto a lorry that is a different affair, but to me it is sad that we are chastising her for taking a few drinks to have on what may have been a lonely or long stop-over. Well to that I say lets make sure we have no logs in our eyes before we start looking for specks in the FAs.


Where do you draw the line then?

Where do you draw the line then?
Great question! ;) ^

I draw my line by conducting myself at my employer the same way I would want my employees to conduct themselves if I owned my own company or I was Chairman of the Board of the public company I work for now. Being a Senior Manager for a Fortune 50 company, I have capital and expense budgetary responsibility. Last year, I negotiated savings of almost $500,000 on various vendor agreements. I was able to do so because I treated the dollars being spent as if they were coming out of my own personal checking account. I also do the same with my own company expenses. :cool:

If you went into business with some of your fellow FA's and the group of you owned your own start up airline, would all of you owners be happy with having to restock your liquor and wine inventory knowing that 1%, 5%, 10% or perhaps 15% of your liquor inventory was now in the larders of your FA's, Pilots, GA's, etc.?

I think not. :rolleyes: I would speculate that when you found out, you and each of your co-owners would be making faces like this... :confused: :eek: :mad:

So, why not draw the line and demonstrate the same good form with NW that you would want your own employees to show you? ^ :-:

-Alan

Great question!

I draw my line by conducting myself at my employer the same way I would want my employees to conduct themselves if I owned my own company or I was Chairman of the Board of the public company I work for now. Being a Senior Manager for a Fortune 50 company, I have capital and expense budgetary responsibility. Last year, I negotiated savings of almost $500,000 on various vendor agreements. I was able to do so because I treated the dollars being spent as if they were coming out of my own personal checking account. I also do the same with my own company expenses.

If you went into business with some of your fellow FA's and the group of you owned your own start up airline, would all of you owners be happy with having to restock your liquor and wine inventory knowing that 1%, 5%, 10% or perhaps 15% of your liquor inventory was now in the larders of your FA's, Pilots, GA's, etc.?

I think not. I would speculate that when you found out, you and each of your co-owners would be making faces like this...

So, why not draw the line and demonstrate the same good form with NW that you would want your own employees to show you?

-Alan
Hey, isn't there a limit as to the number of smilies or icons one can use in a post?? :confused: :confused: I guess you need to see the original reply for this to make sense.

A week or 2 ago, an UA employee was distributing a large number of UA Family and Friend discount certs in CC. Many FTer asked for it and expressed their appreciation while nobody inquired on how that UA employee obtained those certs. I suspect that person just took a stack and kept them to him/herself. If it's true, then that's not any different from what we are discussing here. Nobody seemed to care then.

Just seems to me that FTers are quick to find FAs and GAs guilty of all sorts of crime without knowing the facts.

The OP seems to be debating whether to complain or not and appears not interested in giving details.

Makes you wonder how "serious" this event was???

Just seems to me that FTers are quick to find FAs and GAs guilty of all sorts of crime without knowing the facts.

The OP seems to be debating whether to complain or not and appears not interested in giving details.

Makes you wonder how "serious" this event was???

Facts? Who wants facts?

This has become a general discussion about FA theft, which some people feel is serious and others do not.

This has become a general discussion about FA theft, which some people feel is serious and others do not.
Since thread is about FA theft in general I think it should be moved to TravelBuzz. ;)

Where do you draw the line then?I think where you draw the line depends on the practiced norm by peers.

If most FAs would occasionally take some snacks or drinks away to have in their hotel then I would not see it as theft, just as the office worker who takes a pen or envelope or paperclips home from the office or makes personal calls with a work phone. On the otherhand when one has to hide and do something, sneak things into his bag when people aren't watching, or when only a minority will do the same, then in looks more like theft. Similarly some things are unreasonable - like taking 1 bottle of wine, or one envelope, I cannot see as theft, but taking 30 bottles of wine or six boxes on envelopes could be seen differently.

I think it is a grey area and it is only in one's conscience to know when one is stealing or not.

I have witnessed theft first hand, heard from friends in the industry and enjoyed mini-bottles (not without guilt) at many parties.

I have also witnessed and been the recipient of liquor from FA's on several airlines over the years.

A friend of mine that retired from CO after 30 years advised me the flight is allotted XX amount of liquor.......sometimes you have drinkers, sometimes you don't. At the FA's discretion they would gift a bottle to honeymooners, or nice customers.

As far as open bottles........I would hope the airlines would discard them after the flight. Either down the drain or to the flight crew.

I remember 5 or 6 years ago I was staying at the CP in Sao Paulo, it was Super Bowl Sunday and they were watching soccer in the lounge. I struck up a conversation with an AA flight crew on layover - we decided to walk on down Av. Paulista to a "American" style bar and watch the super Bowl. One of the crew brought a garbage bag with him of an assortment of American bears. We went to the bar - drank - what I assume were AA's beers and enjoyed the game. We started buying beer when we ran out - anything goes in Brazil.

Another time on a United flight (ORD to GRU) I was in business - I think it was a mid-week flight with light load - lots of empty seats throughout the plane. I had a half glass of port after dinner and in the morning on arrival the flight attendant asked if I would like the rest of the bottle she had opened because she would have to pour it down the drain as could not have an open bottle on landing. My Brazilian colleague enjoyed the balance of the bottle.

I suppose there is a normal level of slippage but I do believe should be minimized by the airline and employees - depends on character.

I suppose there is a normal level of slippage but I do believe should be minimized by the airline and employees - depends on character.
Good reply. I guess I think that my tolerance for slippage or leakage is probably set at close to zero, but that is just me. Another form of this in the workplace is sick time. At my company, I see some abuse of this with my peers and even some of my direct reports. I try to model what I believe to be good form in this regard, and hope that others take notice. ;)

-Alan