US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - kidz in FC (& dogs in clubs)

Greetings all,

Anyone out there have a good story about dealing with kids in FC or, conversely, fliers irate about kids in FC?

I'm an airline reporter in Fla. (and friend of the Cockroaches) who recently started a biz travel column. Next one up is on the aforementioned subject. Besides good stories, I'm interested in these topics:

- What's proper etiquette for having your kids in FC? No lap children for example? How about unaccompanied minors?

- Has any airline tried to ban kids from FC? Is that even legal?

- In the kids/no kids debate, is the dividing line always whether or not you have kids of your own?

BTW, I was also intrigued by a DAL board post on people who bring their dogs into airport clubs (seems like there's a connection here).

Thanks in advance for your help. Feel free to PM me if you prefer that to posting.

If you do a search you'll find a host of discussion on this topic. Starting this thread is like kicking over a rotting log in the woods to see what you might find underneath!

My personal view: (a) I have always paid for a seat for my kids in first, even when they were infants. I felt it was inappropriate to have a lap child, and also moronic to hold your infant as the plane hurtles down the runway at 100+ miles an hour; (b) children should have to meet the same standards of conduct as all others in public settings, and if they cannot meet those standards they should not be taken to the places, whether it be the first class cabin, fancy restuarants, or anywhere else; (c) my kids are better behaved than some adult passengers, and have been since they were infants. While we've gotten eye rolls when boarding (particularly when they were infants) we've always gotten compliments when disembarking. I'll take credit for some of that, but a lot is just that I have great kids; (d) when I see other kids in F, I apply the same standards to them as anyone other passenger - I'm happy to have them as seatmates when they are respectful and well behaved, and dread when they are not. Which is exactly how I feel about everyone on the plane - child or adult.

Haven't seen as many kids lately. Don't know why. My personal observation is they are about as good as the parents with them want them to be. Need I say more?

I actually have more problems with Freq Fliers' wives who don't get the nuances of polite FC behavior.

For example, the tiny woman who just has to put her seat all the way back for a flight in the middle of the day...just because she can.

Or the ones who grab your seatback to help them get up for their 5 trips to the lav.

Or the ones whose iPods are so loud that you can hear the tinny rhythms 3 seats away.

Or the ones who keep the window shade open (even when sleeping) while neighbors are trying to work on their laptops.

I also think that I see more demanding behavior toward the FAs from FF wives too.

Of course, the FF load that they are married to should straighten them out...

I'm way too tired to get involved in this battle again. Here are the pertinent threads:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376059

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358466

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=424884

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413181

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439401

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=395421

To the OP, I've got some strongly held (and, I think, well-thought-out) opinions on the subject. Feel free to PM me if you're interested.

I actually have more problems with Freq Fliers' wives who don't get the nuances of polite FC behavior.




Don't get me started on Non-working Spousal Units. I used to think that there should be a special automobile tag that said "Doctor's Wife on Call". When I go to meetings, there is always a wife or three in F (tickets bought with Visa miles) who expects immaculate fawning service from the Flight Attendant.

I have yet to see an ill-mannered UM in F. However, the children who disturb those around them do so when their parents are not attentive to their actions. So often, the quality of parenting demonstrates that these parents are not the primary caregivers or that boundaries are not set.

sky writer, YGM.

sky writer, there is actually a "Traveling with Kids" forum here on FT, I'm sure you'll find some pertinent info there.

- What's proper etiquette for having your kids in FC? No lap children for example? How about unaccompanied minors?
We've traveled with our 1-year old in F and C domestically and internationally. Buying a seat has not been necessary. Don't know about UMs.

- Has any airline tried to ban kids from FC? Is that even legal?
An LH res agent has tried to tell me I wasn't allowed to have my baby in transatlantic F. That was a bold faced lie, there is no such policy. I hung up and called again - this time it was no problem.

- In the kids/no kids debate, is the dividing line always whether or not you have kids of your own?
To a degree, I feel that is the case. Some of the more incendiary comments you'll see in some threads can only come from people who have never had the experience of traveling with kids, very likely because they don't have any. Kinda limits your understanding of the topic, don't you think? Some comments I've seen make me wonder how one can expect to be afforded all kinds of courtesies and in turn not extend any to their fellow travelers with children.

I recommend a recent thread on the LH forum on the topic, some very colorful views being expressed.

Don't get me started on Non-working Spousal Units. I used to think that there should be a special automobile tag that said "Doctor's Wife on Call". When I go to meetings, there is always a wife or three in F (tickets bought with Visa miles) who expects immaculate fawning service from the Flight Attendant.

I have yet to see an ill-mannered UM in F. However, the children who disturb those around them do so when their parents are not attentive to their actions. So often, the quality of parenting demonstrates that these parents are not the primary caregivers or that boundaries are not set.

sky writer, YGM.

Exactly right. I am continually amazed at how many parents tolerate bad behavior in public.

NWSUs can be a very difficult group. Doc's wives, VPs wives, General's wives... There is an assumption by the NWSU that they have the same "rank" etc as her/his spouse and they are typically more demanding than the spouse with "rank".

Why is this topic in the US Airways forum? Also, is the article going to be about kids (note the spelling) on planes, or dogs in clubs? Doing both at the same time would really water things down. Or is this going to be a series about the vagaries of business travel, moving from one topic to the next in each article to ensure all groups of people are equally stirred up?

I've never had an issue with children in first or dogs in the club, or even dogs on the aircraft.

There is that story about the seeing eye pig in first a few years back though.

I've never had an issue with children in first or dogs in the club, or even dogs on the aircraft.

There is that story about the seeing eye pig in first a few years back though.

at the time it was termed a companion pig...which I've certainly seen many times since then (depending on the definition of "pig" of course)

BTW, I was also intrigued by a DAL board post on people who bring their dogs into airport clubs (seems like there's a connection here).

Most of the clubs I believe ban pets ... service dogs are always going to be allowed, of course. I suppose someone might bring in a non-pet carrier looking bag with Fido or Kitty inside successfully, but they'd be risking getting the boot.

I assume it's a health code reason, since most of the clubs have to have various health certificates even though few serve real food anymore. Of course, I'd rather see a well-behaved pet in a carrier than someone changing Junior on a table in the middle of the club (which I have unfortunately witnessed) :eek: Wonder which is actually the bigger health hazard?

Thanks to everyone who responded.

I didn't realize the rotting log I was kicking with this one and appreciate all who steered me to previous posts.

Considering then big landscape to cover here, think I'll let dogs in clubs (and, better, spousal units) wait for their own column.

For JS, two reasons I posted here. Since my readers' airport is TPA, I try to focus on DAL and US (obviously SWA isn't a player on this topic). Also, I'm still a little ignorant of the various FT boards and always had good luck getting smart responses from you all.

Once again, you were a great help. Thx much.

maybe i need to be “straightened out”, but in my opinion these business men that are FFs with non-working spousal units probably wouldnt be as successful and fly as much as they do without their wives WORKING very hard to care for their family and home.

one joy i see in frequent flyer programs is that you can use your miles to enjoy nice trips with your spouse/family.

i take offense to these comments....but in a forum where you people complain about yellow/brown limes, snoring, plastic cups, specific alcohol brands and not having china to eat from.....maybe i shouldnt be offended at all!

sky writer, there is actually a "Traveling with Kids" forum here on FT, I'm sure you'll find some pertinent info there.


We've traveled with our 1-year old in F and C domestically and internationally. Buying a seat has not been necessary. Don't know about UMs.


An LH res agent has tried to tell me I wasn't allowed to have my baby in transatlantic F. That was a bold faced lie, there is no such policy. I hung up and called again - this time it was no problem.


To a degree, I feel that is the case. Some of the more incendiary comments you'll see in some threads can only come from people who have never had the experience of traveling with kids, very likely because they don't have any. Kinda limits your understanding of the topic, don't you think? Some comments I've seen make me wonder how one can expect to be afforded all kinds of courtesies and in turn not extend any to their fellow travelers with children.

I recommend a recent thread on the LH forum on the topic, some very colorful views being expressed.


This is almost an aside on this topic....but back when my children were young (ages 5-ish or so) before Sept. 11, the airlines were much more likely to give upgrades "just for asking." Or something like that. I raised my children when we went to the airport to:
1) Dress up when traveling
2) Be on "first class" behavior.

That meant that if we had any hope at all of upgrading, we had to be on our best, most polite, most sweet, most grownup, etc. behavior. Then if we were upgraded, they had to still be on "first class" behavior.

Of course, they were expected to be on first class behavior regardless. This really did work and to this day they are sophisticated travelers and still are on first class behavior whenever traveling anywhere.

TEACHABLE MOMENT:
(I also remember one time during spring break we noticed teenagers in sweats, tank tops, etc sleeping on the floor at airports while waiting for their flights. I said I didn't want to EVER see or hear of my children doing that.) That obviously is NOT first class behavior.

maybe i need to be “straightened out”, but in my opinion these business men that are FFs with non-working spousal units probably wouldnt be as successful and fly as much as they do without their wives WORKING very hard to care for their family and home.


Welcome to FT and the US Airways forum.

As the person who first used this expression in this thread, I hope you are one of the people who do not need to be "straightened out". Typically physicians are not among frequent flyers for business. I do not disagree with your assessment about spouses of businessmen who maintain the family while the breadwinner is traveling.

However, there is a sense of entitlement maintained by many doctors' wives. It is galling to see and, fortunately, less noticeable now than it was 20 years ago. However, the stereotype still lingers. A recent favorite was at the shoe carnival- a medical missus said to TSA, "Put my shoes through there? What if they get damaged? Do you know how much those Jimmy Choo's cost?"

It is still pervasive enough that traveling to meetings is quite entertaining. Some of my funniest observations are from these situations. It's just not flying, it's also in hotels. (Woman: "There's something wrong with the A/C in my room." Front desk manager in the BVI: "Yes ma'am. What seems to be the problem?" Woman: "There's no cold air." Manager: "That's because there's no air conditioning in the guest rooms." Woman: "Well, that's what you said the last time I was here.")

Are these folks a majority? Absolutely not. Just a highly visible group.

BTW, of the 14 adults in my family; 1 lawyer, 1 nurse, 1 social worker, 2 teachers, 1 chemical engineer, 2 business owners and 6 docs.

I cringe at kids in FC because some parents exercise ZERO control over them.

I never have an issue with dogs, but then again, I have three perfectly behaved angels...only one of whom even comes close to fitting under a seat. I would never subject my fellow travelers to them. Nonetheless, I'm thrilled when I am away from my dogs, and see other people with theirs.

Where I could really go off is "club etiquette". But that's for another forum, I guess.

(I also remember one time during spring break we noticed teenagers in sweats, tank tops, etc sleeping on the floor at airports while waiting for their flights. I said I didn't want to EVER see or hear of my children doing that.) That obviously is NOT first class behavior.

Yes, but airlines are not always on first class behavior either, and often strand people overnight. I would rather teach my children how *best* to sleep on the floor www.sleepinginairports.net than have them fall into a coma from sitting all night on those plastic chairs.

For the record, I am a strict mother who has insisted on A+ behavior from my kids in public from day 1, be it on an airplane, in a restaurant, whatever :cool:

a) has there ever been a situation where someone booked an UM in F? my kids don't need F on their own. They can sit in a middle seat if they're on their own.

b) there's nothing less classy than seeing some 19 year old girl sleeping on the floor with half of her buttcrack (and perhaps a thong) hanging out over her pants. here's a situation where the girls are generally worse than guys.

I actually have more problems with Freq Fliers' wives who don't get the nuances of polite FC behavior.

Of course, the FF load that they are married to should straighten them out...

While this may be true in many cases I think the assumption is often applied far more liberally than it should be. I'm a relatively young female FF and I am frequently asked for my ticket stub, greeted with surprised looks when I take my seat in F, asked for my ticket stub when boarding with the other CPs (and no one else is), etc. While I'm sure that there are many FF wives who exhibit poor flying behavior I also think there is a general tendency to assume that women must be wives and not FFs. I mean, you saw a bunch of women being somewhat inconsiderate on an airplane - why assume they're wives and not rude FFs? :rolleyes: My point (I have one here somewhere!) being that if the OP is thinking about a story on FF wives, he/she should also consider one on female FFs and stereotypes.

I raised my children when we went to the airport to:
1) Dress up when traveling
2) Be on "first class" behavior.

That meant that if we had any hope at all of upgrading, we had to be on our best, most polite, most sweet, most grownup, etc. behavior. Then if we were upgraded, they had to still be on "first class" behavior.


Why is it that while everyone agrees that there are sometimes annoying and poorly-behaved children on flights, every parent to post on this topic always insists that their children are the exception and that it must be those OTHER people's children causing the problem? :p

No disrespt meant to you, Shopfranceinc - I'm sure your children could indeed be well behaved - but it is pretty funny that most posters I've seen on this topic insist that their children have perfect "first class" flying behavior, just like all parents insist that their children are above average. ;)

Why is it that while everyone agrees that there are sometimes annoying and poorly-behaved children on flights, every parent to post on this topic always insists that their children are the exception and that it must be those OTHER people's children causing the problem? :p

No disrespt meant to you, Shopfranceinc - I'm sure your children could indeed be well behaved - but it is pretty funny that most posters I've seen on this topic insist that their children have perfect "first class" flying behavior, just like all parents insist that their children are above average. ;)

That's because the parents of bad or dumb kids don't have time to contribute to FlyerTalk, seeing as how they are too busy screaming at them, spanking them every five minutes, or just flat-out ignoring them while watching TV. ;)

b) there's nothing less classy than seeing some 19 year old girl sleeping on the floor with half of her buttcrack (and perhaps a thong) hanging out over her pants. here's a situation where the girls are generally worse than guys.

If she's good looking, sit her next to me please. I'm fine looking at that thong.

If she's good looking, sit her next to me please. I'm fine looking at that thong.

Ignore him guys. I just came back from dinner at his college and there was not a 19 year old female to be found on campus. Tragic that he has to go to the airport to see some cheeks. ;)

"This university and all institutions of its' kind have only three main functions. To provide sex for the students, athletics for the alumni and parking for the faculty."

While this may be true in many cases I think the assumption is often applied far more liberally than it should be. I'm a relatively young female FF and I am frequently asked for my ticket stub, greeted with surprised looks when I take my seat in F, asked for my ticket stub when boarding with the other CPs (and no one else is), etc. While I'm sure that there are many FF wives who exhibit poor flying behavior I also think there is a general tendency to assume that women must be wives and not FFs. I mean, you saw a bunch of women being somewhat inconsiderate on an airplane - why assume they're wives and not rude FFs? :rolleyes: My point (I have one here somewhere!) being that if the OP is thinking about a story on FF wives, he/she should also consider one on female FFs and stereotypes.

The confused woman with the man who seems in control I have assumed to be the wife of an FF.

But of course you are right. Young female FFs can be rude and dense too.

You seem a bit self-absorbed. Do you think that people are talking about you when you walk down the street?

The confused woman with the man who seems in control I have assumed to be the wife of an FF.

But of course you are right. Young female FFs can be rude and dense too.

You seem a bit self-absorbed. Do you think that people are talking about you when you walk down the street?

You brought up women flyers and I told my story, the same as how other posters tell their stories about various topics. If no one talked about their experiences or personal viewpoints Flyertalk would be about a tenth of the size it is now. I simply posted a viewpoint that was different than your own and that makes me "self-absorbed" and thinking that everyone is talking about me when I walk down the street? :rolleyes:

Though it seems you've been a member 2003 you appear to have forgotten the rules on these boards - it's one thing to disagree with someone's post but resorting to personal attacks is inappropriate and immature. A perfect example of "rude" behavior if I ever saw one.

you are right... my apologies

I've never had an issue with children in first or dogs in the club, or even dogs on the aircraft.

There is that story about the seeing eye pig in first a few years back though.

Uh...Mr. August 2005 Your Turn (Your Fault) star, I am sure if you did have an issue with this, you'd be writing to Deb Thompson.

(I had to find a semi-appropriate post to post this remark to. I was so suprised this morning on my flight down here to Florida to be reading Deb Thompson's column featuring you!)

Uh...Mr. August 2005 Your Turn (Your Fault) star, I am sure if you did have an issue with this, you'd be writing to Deb Thompson.

(I had to find a semi-appropriate post to post this remark to. I was so suprised this morning on my flight down here to Florida to be reading Deb Thompson's column featuring you!)

Alysia -- tell us more?? I don't fly until tomorrow.....

I am a very frequent flyer who has children. Yes, I have flown with them and it requires patience, discipline and some fortitude when dealing with other passengers. That being said, there are far too many people who call themselves "parents" who become belligerent at the drop of a hat because of some perceived slight or remark. (See some other posts on other airlines) These "parents" are often too willing to dismiss their children's bad behavior as "kids will be kids" or some other excuse for their lack of spine. Sorry--but being a parent myself, that sort of bull is a cop-out. Don't give me that nonsense about how your children are strong willed--you made them that way--now deal with it. The more excuses you come up with, the more people know you are not "parenting" but "breeding". I have spent most of my time flying with my kids keeping them in line, and I refuse to allow them to spoil anybody else's flight.

The truth is that a modern airliner, with all of the post-9/11 and industry-wide craziness is probably not the best place to expose your children to a new experience unless you are willing to make sure their behavior (and your own as well!!) is courteous and respectful of others. The whole "it takes a village" mentality does not apply on airliners--they are your kids--take responsibility for them.

On the other side of the issue, passengers who expect to find no children at all in first or business class are rather deluded. Many of these kids are very frequent flyers due to any number of reasons, none of which are any of your business. As long as they behave correctly, don't expect an airline to "ban" them from the premium cabin. In truth, I have seen just as many adults that have behaved badly as children in premium cabins, so I have trouble with the idea that kids don't belong in first/biz class.

As a group, I have seen the B/C-list celebrities treating the flight attendants very badly. These people tend to be very demanding, very demeaning and quite worthy of a psychiatric exam to deal with their issues.

Yesterday was my worst kid experience day yet in first. First I was asked to move seats so her and her 3 year old could sit together. I felt like she was about to sit in my lap before I even said yes. Since we were flying out of Philly and on an infamous 30 minute taxi out the child defacated in his pants not once, but twice making the entire cabin reak of feces. For the rest of the short but painful trip to DC he threw a football at me multiple times, screamed the whole way, and she practically ran me over while I was trying to leave the plane. Kids don't belong in FC and should be moved to the back if they can't behave.

Maybe I'm just lucky or I fly to palces only a man would be stupid enough to fly to. I have got to be frank when I say that MOST kids have been well behaved in and out of first.

My 9 year old neice is an absolute joy to travel with. She said something so funny when they served the "Dog Food Box". She taps me on the shoulder and says, "Uncle Bobby, THIS is First Class?" as she wrinkled her nose at the food. What could I say?

But Atlantic Beach is right. Parenting is the key. My sister is the B-word on wheels with that kid. Far to strict for my tastes but when we travel or go out to dinner she's a really good well mannered kid so I guess my sister is right and I'm wrong.

a) has there ever been a situation where someone booked an UM in F? my kids don't need F on their own. They can sit in a middle seat if they're on their own.


My son (now 14) usually flies in F as an UM. As a pro rock climber, he travels a lot and is a CO elite. He is often upgraded to F, and yes, there are some other passengers who don't like the fact that he's there, or resent the fact that he gets a battlefield upgrade. Once, as I was waiting with him to board, someone told us, "This line is for F passengers and elites only." My son simply replied, "I'm both." and continued onto the plane.

Also, IMO, I would prefer that my son NOT be sandwiched in a middle seat between two strangers for a number of hours. We book him in F on those flights were I don't think he'll be upgraded.