America West FlightFund (Pre-2005 US Airways merger) - Being a Plat at HP Sucks

F sold out for tpa-phx tomorrow
F sold out for phx-dtw Friday.

I know, I know, people are going to criticize me and tell me that HP is making money of these seats, and yes, Friday is Holiday weekend but the bottom line is it's alienating me and other Plats, I was 100% last year as a plat (even on similiar trans cons), and perhaps if HP upped the ante a little bit and offered their most frequent fliers a bone like let's see....hmm....how about Plats get upgraded 5 days out (or 7 at US!) rather than a horrible 3 day, which pales in comparison to any other elite program out there.

I'm sure the other plats on here would be and/or are just as frustrated.

F sold out for tpa-phx tomorrow
F sold out for phx-dtw Friday.

I know, I know, people are going to criticize me and tell me that HP is making money of these seats, and yes, Friday is Holiday weekend but the bottom line is it's alienating me and other Plats, I was 100% last year as a plat (even on similiar trans cons), and perhaps if HP upped the ante a little bit and offered their most frequent fliers a bone like let's see....hmm....how about Plats get upgraded 5 days out (or 7 at US!) rather than a horrible 3 day, which pales in comparison to any other elite program out there.

I'm sure the other plats on here would be and/or are just as frustrated.

What is your normal upgrade average? As you said, this is a holiday weekend--flights are bound to be very, very full. Still, there's only one way to be sure of getting an F seat: buy one!

Since moving some of my business over to America West a couple of months ago, I'm 12 for 12 in the upgrade department as a Gold.

F sold out for tpa-phx tomorrow
F sold out for phx-dtw Friday.
. . .I'm sure the other plats on here would be and/or are just as frustrated.

In recent months I have been shocked at the number of flights that have zero upgrade availability when the Platinum upgrade window rolls around. Many of my flights have either been sold out or they're holding the remaining seats for sale, to be released if not sold at some magical moment prior to departure.

On a recent flight from ORD to PHX I was standing in the cattle line waiting to board next to two gold members who were seated in first. (I was in coach.) I asked them if they bought F or were upgraded. They said that they were upgraded and that they kept calling until the last two seats being held "for sale" became available and then snagged them when they opened up the day before departure. As a Plat, this is extremely frustrating. If they want to hold back seats to sell, fine, but when they release them, they should go to the highest ranking elite members waiting to be upgraded. We shouldn't have to call them every hour to see if someone has released seats.

No question about it, upgrade-wise, being a Plat on HP is nothing like it used to be. Given how much more often I'm experiencing that ridiculously tight seat pitch on HP, UA's Econ. Plus or American's MRTC is looking better and better.

American doesn't have More Room Throughout Coach any longer. As for TED, he may have Economy Plus, but he doesn't have First Class.

I'm looking forward to the expanded routes. US is far too weak in the west.

If it sucks so bad, why'd you spend so much time/money to get Platinum?

Wouldn't you be better off at WN, where every passenger is a Platinum Elite member? :D

I'm with you Enviroian. I'm plat and have been plat or equivalent on Delta and NW over the years. I still can't get over how people could vote Flight Fund as best elite program. It must be that they have no other elite program experience....

What is your normal upgrade average? As you said, this is a holiday weekend--flights are bound to be very, very full. Still, there's only one way to be sure of getting an F seat: buy one!


About 90%. Sure I get upgraded on my bi-weekly runs to IAH, but once in a while when I fly a > 3 hour flight for their tri-colored tortellini it is nice to get a seat up front.


Buy one? yes, your right--that would be the only logical way to secure a F seat. However, I feel, IMHO, that someone like me who buys a coach seat every week on HP should be privvy to the elite benefits offered and knowing that if I was similarly plat/1K/etc on any other airline I'd probably be upfront tomorrow. Yes, I am very happy that HP takes me non stop to 95% of my destinations, but the bottom line is their elite program blows. That is my opinion, and I'm sure folks like AZ and others can appreciate my $0.02 here.

On a recent flight from ORD to PHX I was standing in the cattle line waiting to board next to two gold members who were seated in first. (I was in coach.) I asked them if they bought F or were upgraded. They said that they were upgraded and that they kept calling until the last two seats being held "for sale" became available and then snagged them when they opened up the day before departure. As a Plat, this is extremely frustrating. If they want to hold back seats to sell, fine, but when they release them, they should go to the highest ranking elite members waiting to be upgraded. We shouldn't have to call them every hour to see if someone has released seats.
This is really the thing that bugs me. I'm all for them selling them if they can, but if they release them, don't let them sit there until someone calls or midnight hits to run their little upgrade program. If you release a seat from holding to sell the first thing that should be done is run the seat so the next elite in line gets it.

Lance

since HP has about 70% of the Phoenix market wrapped up its going to be tight. Lots of competition from the local travelers in the home base.....bottom line - too many platinums in the market.

since HP has about 70% of the Phoenix market wrapped up its going to be tight. Lots of competition from the local travelers in the home base.....bottom line - too many platinums in the market.

If only that were the problem. For me, at least it's not. With well over 100K EQM's in the prior 12 months, I know from experience that I'm one of the very first to get upgraded on any flight. The issue is not competition from other Plats -- it's the discounted seats that are sold, combined with the increasing number that HP now holds back for sale.

I've got another such situation this weekend. Sunday mid-day flight on a holiday weekend. Prior to the Platinum upgrade window even opening, 10 of 12 seats in F were gone. The remaining two are being held "for sale." At some point they will be released and the first person to call in will hit the jackpot. That could be a Silver member with 25K miles over the past 12 months. Meanwhile a high margin Plat with five times that number of miles walks past him to the back of the plane. It happened last week. It will happen this week. It never used to happen.

Several people will tell you that many of those people booked into F cashed in 20K miles to upgrade and get that seat. That's highly unlikely, as the number of seats available for mileage upgrade have also been tightly restricted. Just yesterday I booked a round-trip in October to DFW to connect with BA. Two passengers. Knowing that I don't want to come off a long BA Club World flight to play the upgrade lottery in a station like DFW, where I always lose, I wanted to use miles to confirm it. "I'm sorry, Mr. AZ Travels, we only have one seat left for mileage upgrade."

"Wow," I said. "That flight is so far out. How many seats are already taken?" "Ummm. . . none." Not a single person yet booked in F. One seat is all that is allowed for advance mileage upgrade. So you can't tell me that these full F cabins are filled with people burning miles.

I'm not quite in the camp that "Being a Plat at HP Sucks," but I am frustrated and, as a result, my loyalty is diminishing. HP promised they would manage this discounted F program carefully in order to preserve the upgrade benefits for elite members. They absoutely are not doing it. Even if they are going to sell every seat they can, which I can understand given the current profitability situation, they should at least change their process just enough to make sure that those seats that are available go to the highest level elite members first. Or, that those highest level members have an increased ability to get a seat if they're willing to use miles to confirm it.

When the discounted F program was initiated, I wrote a letter to FF expressing my concerns about it ultimately alienating their most loyal, frequent customers. It sounds like this is exactly what’s happening.

If more FF Elites actually wrote in to express some of the sentiments expressed here, HP might actually listen!

I’m curious, how many others have written to HP about this issue??

I personally am not against the selling of F seats discounted or not. They make more money on those seats, it's better for our airline. I just want a fair shake at the seats when they become available and not have it be a lottery system by whoever happens to call in first gets the seat. I've been on both sides of the equation too. Back when I was silver last year I called up and was upgraded at that magic time and I knew a plat on the plane that had to walk by me and sit in Y. I've also been a plat that lost out on F call in lottery and walked past a buddy that got his upgrade as gold by calling in. That's the unfair part about it. I've not been doing this for too long but I have 96K EQM in the past 12 consecutive months so I think i'm up there with alot of plats and usually don't have too much competition for some of the routes I'm on but all I want is fairness in the process.

Lance

When the discounted F program was initiated, I wrote a letter to FF expressing my concerns about it ultimately alienating their most loyal, frequent customers. It sounds like this is exactly what’s happening.

If more FF Elites actually wrote in to express some of the sentiments expressed here, HP might actually listen!

I’m curious, how many others have written to HP about this issue??

I feel your frustration. I used to get upgraded at least 8 out of ten times on SNA/LAS. I was upgraded today and this is the first time is 8 flights! I too have seen others upgraded with less miles. This past Monday, they pulled two coach folks and gave them the two F seats that are apparently held till the last minute.

I have called and discussed this with AWA. I agree also that if enough loyal customers call we might get some attention.

I remember the letter sent to elites regarding the new upgrade policy awhile back but I don't believe it is working the way they implied.

On another note, when I checked in this AM (I had to call for asistance. Couldn't print the boarding pass with the web site) a screen notified me that F was available and would I like to be upgraded? Heck, I thought this was supposed to be automatic and as pointed out elsewhere, a day or so before the flight. What's up with that?

The irony is at the last minute before the door shut the f/a comes up to me in 11 E and tells me, and THREE others around me to come up front. So accrding to HP for the last week, and up until check in, that first class was "sold out" only to see 4 empty seats up front. Am I supposed to believe that these were no shows? I have a hard time believing that. I believe they are holding 4 until the nth second for revenue, then releasing them.

The irony is at the last minute before the door shut the f/a comes up to me in 11 E and tells me, and THREE others around me to come up front. So accrding to HP for the last week, and up until check in, that first class was "sold out" only to see 4 empty seats up front. Am I supposed to believe that these were no shows? I have a hard time believing that. I believe they are holding 4 until the nth second for revenue, then releasing them.

They could have been misconnects that they were waiting for the last possible minute on. Four is a lot to hold until the VERY last minute, usually one or two but not four!

So my g/f and I are doing to to Detroit today for the weekend. All week long F has showed sold so knowing the both of us in an exit row was fine with me. I'm Plat, she's Silver.

About 15 mins ago I use webcheck in. We had two independent PNR's as having one would void the auto upgrade policy so just incase I thought...

Anyway, I start with her PNR. Get to the second page and to my amazement the page said "upgrade available, would you like an upgrade"? :confused: Of course I put her into 1A. Now--I am thinking that a few seats opened up and my PNR was swept last night and I'm in F as well and would just be happy both of us are up there.

WRONG. I immediately check in next of course to see the "there are no upgrades available".

While I'm not concerned in the slightest about sitting in the exit row as I would have given my seat upfront if my seat cleared but that is beside the point. What if some other Silver checked online this morning and snagged it over me. That is simply unacceptable. My PNR (or any other Plat with a greater EQM balance) should have been protected and gotten the upgrade.

What a piece of junk program. Major :td:


Note from moderator: This post was merged into the existing active thread on the same general topic. -- AZ

I told all of you in the "voted best FF program" thread that this (Elite) program is a joke compared to almost ALL others. Yet still, some of you knuckleheads :confused: defended and even VOTED for it....I'd love to meet some of these people that actually voted for it, and listen to their reasoning.

Ludicrous!!!!!

Since moving some of my business over to America West a couple of months ago, I'm 12 for 12 in the upgrade department as a Gold.

What routes do you fly. Thats pretty incredible.

:D
On a recent flight from ORD to PHX I was standing in the cattle line waiting to board next to two gold members who were seated in first. (I was in coach.) I asked them if they bought F or were upgraded. They said that they were upgraded and that they kept calling until the last two seats being held "for sale" became available and then snagged them when they opened up the day before departure. As a Plat, this is extremely frustrating. If they want to hold back seats to sell, fine, but when they release them, they should go to the highest ranking elite members waiting to be upgraded. We shouldn't have to call them every hour to see if someone has released seats.
.

You are correct. It appears that THE best strategy is to call as seats are released.
AWA analyst will review revenue F seats on a frequent basis and normally release them between 4-6am and 7-9pm. So when you get the e-mail stating you were not upgraded, call and see if there is availablity because the upgrade check occured between 12:15-2:00am. If it isn't available, call after 9pm that same day.

I have employed the calling strategy, and have increase my upgrade percentage considerably, I never once got an upgrade on my MKE-PHX / PHX-MKE trips, but now that I call, I'm getting bumped up everytime. . . uncanny. I've even scored on the packed PHX-EWR flights :D

HP should change this ASAP, but as a lowly Gold Member I'm not upset with how it works right now. :D

I will say this F is no longer that desireable for me personally, while not an HP flight, I flew Delta the other day, got an upgrade, and spent 4 hours getting a back massage from the little pipsqueak kid sitting behind me :mad: , The mother was completely disinterested in what her child was doing. . . and she somehow managed to avoid me when I got up . . . and FAs of no use. truly amazing :confused: . . . I am incredibly tolerant and easy going. but I considered getting up and sitting in Coach . . . there were seats available.

I feel your frustration. I used to get upgraded at least 8 out of ten times on SNA/LAS. I was upgraded today and this is the first time is 8 flights! I too have seen others upgraded with less miles. This past Monday, they pulled two coach folks and gave them the two F seats that are apparently held till the last minute.

I have called and discussed this with AWA. I agree also that if enough loyal customers call we might get some attention.

I remember the letter sent to elites regarding the new upgrade policy awhile back but I don't believe it is working the way they implied.

On another note, when I checked in this AM (I had to call for asistance. Couldn't print the boarding pass with the web site) a screen notified me that F was available and would I like to be upgraded? Heck, I thought this was supposed to be automatic and as pointed out elsewhere, a day or so before the flight. What's up with that?

It sounds like USairways has their act together much better here. We are placed in a "que" based on our status and time of reservation. When upgradeable seats open up, they start at the top of the list. At the airport on the day of departure, another que is started with the priority based on status and time of check in. They try very hard to take care of their high status fliers, and as a CP, I get upgraded probably 95% of the time.

It sounds like USairways has their act together much better here. We are placed in a "que" based on our status and time of reservation. When upgradeable seats open up, they start at the top of the list. At the airport on the day of departure, another que is started with the priority based on status and time of check in. They try very hard to take care of their high status fliers, and as a CP, I get upgrade probably 95% of the time.

Something like this is exactly what HP should be doing. Assuming elite upgrades are retained in the new program, and I fully expect that they will be, I suspect they will retain US's system. I can just imagine all the 100K+ Chairman's Preferred members response to having to deal with HP's "process."

It sounds like USairways has their act together much better here. We are placed in a "que" based on our status and time of reservation. When upgradeable seats open up, they start at the top of the list. At the airport on the day of departure, another que is started with the priority based on status and time of check in. They try very hard to take care of their high status fliers, and as a CP, I get upgraded probably 95% of the time.
So a CP who made his reservation say a month ago yet has fewer miles flown the last 12 months would get a higher place in the queue than a CP that has more miles flown in the last 12 months but made his reservation say a day later than the previous CP? I definitely don't like that at all. At the upgrade window (7 days or 3 days or whatever) there should be a queue based on status only and miles flown in the last 12 months only, not based on when you made your reservation for the flight.

As far as the standby list for upgrades on day of departure, I definitely wouldn't like that system. A buddy of mine on NW was hunched over his computer trying to check in at the exact 24 hours before the flight to get upgraded because he said something about it's based on the time you check in. I don't want upgrades based on being able to reserve a flight a month or two out or sitting at the computer waiting for the clock to roll around to check in time on the web.

Lance

Hello Elite members, being a FA for HP I understand your frustration. I too wonder sometimes how there are so many NON elites sitting in First class. I look at our Final paperwork which shows "who is who" and you would be suprised how many are just Flight fund w/no status, or just those who are not even a member. I guess if you get the upgrade be thankful, could be worse having to sit in a middle seat that doesnt recline or having to sit next to some steerage passenger who needs to buy two seats!
I think next time you get a seat in First, to observe those around you during the boarding process...you all look like Vultures pryin for road kill when it comes to getting an overhead bin with all your oversized bags that you should have checked at the ticket counter in the first place...its very amusing to see. Anyway enjoy your flight regardless of where you get seated, after the merger goes thru am sure you all will become regular coach passengers anyway!

I think next time you get a seat in First, to observe those around you during the boarding process...you all look like Vultures pryin for road kill when it comes to getting an overhead bin with all your oversized bags that you should have checked at the ticket counter in the first place


While I agree with your statement, I also think HP needs to take responsibility in enforcing it's "size wise" steel cage at every gate. This would eliminate a lot of problems immediately.

I will never check a bag, unless for some unforseen reason I have something that has absolutely no possibility of being shoved into a bin. Between the TSA and the ridiculous drop times in PHX, you'd have to be nuts to let go of your bag.

So a CP who made his reservation say a month ago yet has fewer miles flown the last 12 months would get a higher place in the queue than a CP that has more miles flown in the last 12 months but made his reservation say a day later than the previous CP? I definitely don't like that at all. At the upgrade window (7 days or 3 days or whatever) there should be a queue based on status only and miles flown in the last 12 months only, not based on when you made your reservation for the flight.

As far as the standby list for upgrades on day of departure, I definitely wouldn't like that system. A buddy of mine on NW was hunched over his computer trying to check in at the exact 24 hours before the flight to get upgraded because he said something about it's based on the time you check in. I don't want upgrades based on being able to reserve a flight a month or two out or sitting at the computer waiting for the clock to roll around to check in time on the web.

Lance

I assume it would be more complicated to keep up with everyone's status on a 12 month "rolling" basis.
As far as the day of departure status system, what would you suggest?

I assume it would be more complicated to keep up with everyone's status on a 12 month "rolling" basis.
As far as the day of departure status system, what would you suggest?

The 12-month rolling basis is supposedly what HP does now, so they apparently have a system for it. That would definitely be the way to reward the most recent loyal customers. Second to that, I think the total EQM's from the prior, qualifying year would be good. At least those who qualified with the most miles will get a year of rewards for their loyalty.

I think the "when you're added to the list" approach is inferior to either of the above in several ways:

-- It rewards people who book furthest in advance, which are typically going to be the lowest fare passengers. If you're going to hold some seats back, wouldn't you want your passengers who are BOTH highest revenue and highest loyalty to get the benefit of the upgrade?

-- When you travel a lot on business it is difficult, if not impossible to focus valuable time and energy on making sure that you check in on-line at exactly the right moment or, even more ridiculous, get to the airport really early in order to position yourself high on the list for an upgrade. Busy executives just aren't going to do it. Consequently, they'll be low on the list every time. Why reward people just because they don't have much to do?

It sounds like USairways has their act together much better here. We are placed in a "que" based on our status and time of reservation. When upgradeable seats open up, they start at the top of the list. At the airport on the day of departure, another que is started with the priority based on status and time of check in. They try very hard to take care of their high status fliers, and as a CP, I get upgraded probably 95% of the time.



Time of Reservation? I don't think so. It's based on #1 your status. #2 the time you checked in (online or kiosk) & #3 your checkin at the airport with an actual agent.

Time of Reservation is considered so that you don't have to call and asked to be put in the upgrade queue. But overall it's based on status and checkin times. I'm a US1 and have had US2's knock me out of FC because I forgot to checkin at the airport early enough (in PHX oddly enough). I won't make that mistake again.


I think US has the most generous upgrade program out there. I hope it remains after the merger. I get FC 99.9% of my flights.

US's auto upgrade system is based on the following:

Fare paid, then elite status. Within elite status the requests are processed in the order the were received for an upgrade.

If you purchase a unrestricted Y (Y, B, U and N fare classes) and you can upgrade immediate regardless of status. Otherwise you must wait until to the 7/3/1 day windows.

Edited to add:
Unrestricted Y upgrades come out of a seperate upgrade bucket then restricted Y upgrades. It is entirely possible if I booked a discounted Y ticket as a CP to get trumped for an upgrade by a SP on a full fare that was purchased 2 days before the flight just because of how the buckets are structured.

If you are a CP and do not clear at the 7 day window, the computer will attempt to clear you again at the 3 day window before any GPs are cleared. This will also happen again at the 1 day window.

If you have not cleared at any of the windows and their are still seats available they go to airport control and the gate dance begins.

The gate dance is based on status and then time of checkin. When I was a GP I would luck out and be the only person to clear at the gate by using the web check in exactly 24 hours in advance of the flight. If a CP checked in at the minimumn time however that person would trump me no matter what.

It's all a game. I don't like having to go through the gate dance, but after reading what HP does after the windows clear, I rather have the gate dance.

Editied to Add:
I almost forgot, if you are travelling with a companion. They will get upgraded at the same time you do. This means immediately or at the 7/3/1 day window if there are seats available in the upgrade bucket.

Unfortunately, if there is only one seat available to upgrade and neither you or your companion will get it. You will be skipped until two seats open up. The idea is that you would want to sit, at least in the came cabin, as your companion, if not next to them.

As a GP and later as a CP, I've never had a case when I was travelling with a companion and have not gotten an upgrade solely because I was travelling with a companion. I've had to wait it out at the gate, but if the upgrade was denied it was due to something else.

Time of Reservation? I don't think so. It's based on #1 your status. #2 the time you checked in (online or kiosk) & #3 your checkin at the airport with an actual agent.

Time of Reservation is considered so that you don't have to call and asked to be put in the upgrade queue. But overall it's based on status and checkin times. I'm a US1 and have had US2's knock me out of FC because I forgot to checkin at the airport early enough (in PHX oddly enough). I won't make that mistake again.

I think US has the most generous upgrade program out there. I hope it remains after the merger. I get FC 99.9% of my flights.
But why would you LIKE it based on your time of check in at the airport. If you are a US1 and some US2 guy happens to be able to get to the airport before you he would get your seat. That's generous to him maybe but not to you.

I would think generous would be you can arrive up to say the required time to check in for the flight then whoever is on the list it goes by Current Status first then in that group, the person with the most miles flown (either last year, YTD, or rolling). That would be fair and generous, well maybe not generous to that US2 that sat at the airport for 4 hours hoping to get a ride up front. I don't think someone that flys in excess of 100K miles per year should have to show up early at the airport to "save a place in line" like someone waiting for the best seat for a new movie.

Lance

But why would you LIKE it based on your time of check in at the airport. If you are a US1 and some US2 guy happens to be able to get to the airport before you he would get your seat. That's generous to him maybe but not to you.

I would think generous would be you can arrive up to say the required time to check in for the flight then whoever is on the list it goes by Current Status first then in that group, the person with the most miles flown (either last year, YTD, or rolling). That would be fair and generous, well maybe not generous to that US2 that sat at the airport for 4 hours hoping to get a ride up front. I don't think someone that flys in excess of 100K miles per year should have to show up early at the airport to "save a place in line" like someone waiting for the best seat for a new movie.

Lance


My "generous" comment was based on the amount of times that I'm upgraded. Which again in 99.9% of the time. I don't get that with NW too much anymore. And only on UA once in a blue moon if there are no 1K's or UA employees!! LOL


Thanks wr_schwab for giving the true upgrade procedure. I couldn't remember it word for word.

But why would you LIKE it based on your time of check in at the airport. If you are a US1 and some US2 guy happens to be able to get to the airport before you he would get your seat. That's generous to him maybe but not to you.

I would think generous would be you can arrive up to say the required time to check in for the flight then whoever is on the list it goes by Current Status first then in that group, the person with the most miles flown (either last year, YTD, or rolling). That would be fair and generous, well maybe not generous to that US2 that sat at the airport for 4 hours hoping to get a ride up front. I don't think someone that flys in excess of 100K miles per year should have to show up early at the airport to "save a place in line" like someone waiting for the best seat for a new movie.

Lance


Just as a clarification. Once the seats go to airport control, status trumps everything hence the gate dance.

All CPs will clear in the order they checked in before any GPs clear.
All GPs will clear in the order they checked in before any SPs clear.
All SPs will clear in the order they checked in before they start selling F seats to the masses.

If there is only 1 seat left and there are 2 CPs whoever checked in first gets it. This is all done just before boarding is supposed to start.

This PSA was brought to you by my 200th post :)

Just as a clarification. Once the seats go to airport control, status trumps everything hence the gate dance.

All CPs will clear in the order they checked in before any GPs clear.
All GPs will clear in the order they checked in before any SPs clear.
All SPs will clear in the order they checked in before they start selling F seats to the masses.

If there is only 1 seat left and there are 2 CPs whoever checked in first gets it. This is all done just before boarding is supposed to start.

This PSA was brought to you by my 200th post :)
This is definitely better than what I thought it was.

My "generous" comment was based on the amount of times that I'm upgraded. Which again in 99.9% of the time. I don't get that with NW too much anymore. And only on UA once in a blue moon if there are no 1K's or UA employees!! LOL
My bad, I didn't read your post the way you had intended on the order. I'm sure CP's get upgraded frequently.

Lance