Asia - so many countries so little time Thailand, Vietnam, Phillipines, Cambodja.., China...

My wife and I are on a rtw trip taking us first through africa this summer and sometime around september/october we plan to have about 2 months in asia.

For sure on our lists are:

1. A couple of days in Kuala Lumpur just a stop over (I have to try the Kuala Lumpur Hilton - everybody here at FT is raving about)
2. Thailand - cheap and interesting

Now we should probably limit our visit to somewhere between one and three of the following countries in order not just to zap too much in too short time.

Potential countries for longer visits
Phillipines
Cambodja
Vietnam

Potential countries for short visits
China (Beijing)
South Korea
Japan (Tokyo)

What would be your order of preference on the above six countries.

Thanks for your imput...

Simple question before anybody can answer: what are you interested in?

Purely in monetary terms Japan and South Korea cost a lot more than the rest. You'll may also find it a little difficult to squeeze Cambodia into the RTW as services there are rather limited, and if you're intent on going to Beijing (why?) that may also cause a detour or at least limit your options.

I am aware that this is a pretty open question. I a also understand by emphazing what we want to do whilst on holiday would help. We usually travel without having everything planned from back home, and this rtw is really just a 6 month get a away from work / spend time together kind of trip...

What i was hoping was to get any recent feedback from FT'ers about great experiences in Asia, to help steer me in some interesting direction.

We have both visited quite a few of the countries except the Phillipines, South Korea Cambodja and Japan, so we pretty much know the plusses in minusses of the south east asia countries. However getting tips from here on any great recent experiences from any of the mentioned countries is what I hope for...

Thanks!

Its still going to be hot and wet in SE Asia in Sept. and Oct. so why not Indonesia as it is quite nice in Java and Bali at that time of year. The futher east you travel in Indonesia the sunnier and dryer it will be.

Of all the cities worldwide that I have seen,Europe,Asia,Middle And Far East the one place I want to return is Kyoto and its surrounding area.

my only suggestion is to move the phils to the bottom of your list; great people, best beaches, enjoyable,........... but the danger factor is more real than the press would have you believe (it wouldn't surprise me if i get replies asking me to back up this assertion. i've posted anectdotes in the past, which you should be able to locate by searching. if that fails, let me know and i'll either dig up or repost).

Some other relevant questions are: What kind of trip are you taking in Africa? Which countries? Will you overlanding? What comfort level will you be recovering from?

With the exception of Japan and South Korea, the other countries you mentioned in Asia are a great place to follow up an African trip since you get very good value for money and can travel fairly comfortably at a reasonable cost. Also, SE Asia has some great beaches, if you want some rest and relaxation.

My only suggestion is to move KL to the bottom of your list, unless you happen to be flying Malaysian (MH) as part of your RTW. I could see you making a detour to Dubai, but the KL Hilton? :confused:

Depending on how your current ticket is structured (and whether you already have North Asia included as one of your stops), I would do the following with two months in the region.

Fly into KL
Take cheap flight to Phuket, Krabi or Koh Samui (spend a week on the beach)
Fly/bus to Bangkok
Bangkok, spend time catching up on some temples and arranging visas for other countries in region
Fly Yangon - rent car and driver for two weeks visiting Bagan, Mandalay and Inle Lake at a leisurely pace
Yangon, buy plane ticket to Hanoi via Bangkok on TG
Hanoi, spend one week (Halong Bay and Sapa)
(Detour into southern China is possible from here)
Take train or plane south from Hanoi to Hoi An and Hue (good for 4-7 days)
Take train or plane to Ho Chi Minh City/Saigon
Spend a few days in Saigon then take riverboat tour of Mekong Delta
From Saigon, either take shared taxi to Phnom Penh then plane/boat to Angkor Wat or fly direct to Angkor Wat
Spend 3 full days exploring Angkor Wat
Fly back to Bangkok
Fly back to KL

Other Options
Chiang Mai - popular destination but more commercial than Sapa for hill tribe trekking if that is what you are interested in
Luang Prabang - could lose some of its uniqueness after visiting the temples in Myanmar/Burma

If you already have free stopovers included in Hong Kong, Seoul, and/or Tokyo, then you could probably cut out Vietnam to save time.

WOW these tips are truly amazing... a special thank you to fallinasleep for this itinery suggestion...

Let me try to give an overview of our routing.

Nigeria
Starting in june we will travel to Nigeria (yes Nigeria) for two months, have a lot of danish youth coming down for a three week camp which i am kind of organizing, i grew up in Nigeria and therefore still care for this crazy country.

Kenya/Tanzania
Looking for a quick safari. Visited Mara Serena last year and really the Mara was amazing, really this was a great experience, maybe the same place maybe we look for somewhere else in the 100-200 usd pr. night scale, also have some good friends. Am still considering if we should add another country in Africa, but i think it will be next time...

Seychelles
Mainly as this is on route to Dubai and therefore not waisting that many miles, but also because the beaches here should be wonderful. It is however quite costly so it will only be for a few days.

Dubai
This city continues to amaze me, and I have to spend a bit more time here, checking out some of the new madinat jumeirah properties (even though i know that august/september is very hot) maybe combinded with a visit to Iran or some other middle eastern country where we could have the opportunity to sample the real middle eastern flavaour and not just the "Dubai flavour" We would love to join a language course as my wife is a nurse she treats many patients from this region at the emergency ward here in Denmark and therefore this might come in handy for her also...

Asia
Yes the rtw is the MH,KL,KQ,EK,UL,NW,KL,CO deal bought in CAI earlier this year... So seems mainly MH + maybe EK,UL,NW,CO are the ones that will come in handy for this part of the trip.... Now i realize that with so many LCC coming up in asia we can actually add some interesting stops. The main challenge as i see it is to fit the trip within the 40000 mile limit of this rtw ticket at the same time extra stops are only 100 usd so this is no problem... only that they still in all must not exceed 40000 miles. I will comment on the suggestions in a new post in order to keep this clean...

US
Getting to US from ASIA is either with NW,CO,MH (the rtw is in C so as i see it the preffered order is MH,NW(A330),CO.
California + New York are what i thing we will be looking at in the US for this trip...

Europe
Back home again...


A view of the route as it looks right now, can and will however be changed after the africa part... Great Circle Mapper (http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=CAI-DXB-ZRH-AMS-BLL-AMS-ABV-LOS-NBO-SEZ-DXB-KUl-BKK-KUL-PEK-ICN-NRT-SFO-EWR-ARN-AMS-CAI%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE= )

Now what are some of the things that we want to do...

As this trip somehow is also a research trip that should form the ideas for a travel agency concept, what we are also going to spend some time doing is visit some high end hotel/resort properties in Thailand: Phuket, Bangkok, Chaing Mai, posibly Koh Samui, together with maybe another country in the region. We did a trip like this a year or so back to gather information about the Maldives, Sri Lanka and Dubai. We hope that the information and the network established through these trips will enable us to start up something small and exclusive in 2006.

-> KL Hilton (everybody in the HHonors forum is raving about it) and I would love to visit the evening market in KL again for some good deals (...ehh... my watches need replacements... and this seems to be just the right place for this) besides KL seems to have the worlds cheapest 5 star accomodation possibilities... and who would miss out on that...

Our budget... well still working on this issue... my auditor is to do my taxes for 2004 next week so lets see what she comes up with :) But most of the stay will be the budget guesthouse kind of thing for example through vietnam, with the now and then luxury of staying at some of the worlds greatest properties...

-> moondog
Is the Phillipines really that bad? Is there a generel safety warning for the whole country or is it Manilla?

-> Indonesia is not on the list... Bali is nice I know that much, but should this maybe also be considered, or is it also "out of bounds" at the moment post tsunami and so on...

ugh... wrote some more ideas but it was eaten by the computer

First, I was saying that it looks like you have a great trip planned!

Anyway, you might want to consider some routing changes to your RTW if it is still possible

First, instead of KUL-BKK, how about KUL-RGN, KUL-DPS, or KUL-SGN/HAN. With Air Asia with hubs in both KUL and BKK, fares are really cheap on that route.

Bali is a great place to visit, and if you are serious about your agency business, then I think you have to research Bali as well. Lots of high end resorts in Bali and Lombok (think amanresorts and four seasons -- visit the Luxury Hotels forum here) while aman and banyan tree are both in Phuket. Also, there are some very nice hotel properties in Siem Reap as a result of the short-stay, high end tourism to see Angkor Wat. If you have to give up a country, then Burma and Vietnam in that order would make sense.

Second, I would throw in Honolulu as a stopover between Tokyo and San Francisco. Northwest flies NRT-HNL and HNL-SFO. To keep with your trip theme, you need to check out the surfing on the north shore of Oahu (as well as Bali) and you need to visit Volcanoes National Park on the Big Island. If you are short on time, I would consider skipping California in favor of Hawaii, since airfares are usually much higher to Hawaii from Europe.

Thanks again for the tip about HNL will add that to the "to be considered list", also as mentioned skipping California might be good, it's probably cold in december anyway :)

Now as to where to start coming from dubai sometime late september/early october:

DXB-BKK
DXB-KUL
DXB-ICN
DXB-Jakarta
DXB-Manilla
DXB-Hong Kong
DXB-Shanghai

If I should follow your advice from the earlier post it should probably be

DXB-BKK (cheap flights round Thailand)
BKK-??? I am too tired right now will try to read through the comments tomorrow and try to post a possible routing that Í would be greatfull for any comments about...

Concerning Bali...
Actually we spent our honeymoon in Bali with a stopover in Singapore. Our budget was not enough for Aman properties though, but we had some wonderful stays at:

Alila Ubud (wonderful - just our style and within our price range)
Ritz Carlton (nice rooms but a bit overrated and a bit package like imo)
Waka di Ume (nice but quality of everything was wacky...)

I am quiet serious about the travel agency stuff, and hope to make this dream come true sometime in 2006.

How about starting your Asian leg in Hongkong? It's smack in the middle between SE and NE Asian destinations with around three-four hours flying time to both S'pore and Seoul/Tokyo.

It's also a good city to make last-minute travel related purchases and from Macao you have access to a wide network of LCC flights. Or you could try to find HK based flight/hotel deals to Beijing/Shanghai/Korea/Japan either beforehand or when you're there. Then move on to SE Asian destinations.

Yes Hong Kong could also be a possible staring point however in order to make the full use of my RTW ticket i think i need to devide asia into a South East and a Norht East part. I think i will need to use NW for the following intra asian trips which should be possible on NW (the good thing is that they are all on the A330 :-)). If not i will need to transfer through KUL, which is pretty far away taking up many miles:

KUL-ICN//ICN-NRT-PEK//PEK-NRT-SFO (or via HNL)
KUL-PEK//PEK-NRT-ICN//ICN-NRT-SFO (or via HNL)

Any other suggestions on how to manage a visit to: Seuol, Beijing. Is Seul worth a visit? It seems like this is one of those few chances to get to this fascinating country as tickets are quite costly from Europe.
By the way is there any LCC carriers on any of these routes?

Any other suggestions on how to manage a visit to: Seuol, Beijing. Is Seul worth a visit?



I really enjoy going to Korea, but I probably wouldn't go there without a Korean speaker close by. It's not so much of a language issue (enough people speak English) as a cultural thing; Koreans, while nice, tend to be somewhat xenophobic. Consequently, it can be somewhat isolating if you aren't in the company of someone who can help bridge the gap (much moreso than any other place I've ever been).

It looks like you've scratched the Phils from your itin, but since you asked, I'm honestly not sure which parts of the Phils could be considered "dangerous," but I will comment that Manila has more of an outwardly dangerous feel than most of the smaller cities I've visited (armed guards at all major hotels and stores, lots of guns, coup attempt ~50 meters from my balcony, etc). That said, one of my close friends came within minutes of being kidnapped xmas eve several years ago and he was staying in a private residence near Clark, an area which feels quite safe.

Koreans are more xenophobic than others, but you can still have fun there as a rookie. Think Soju. ;) And say "Khamsa Hamida" a lot.

Also there are loads of American service people in Seoul who are very friendly after a beer or ten. :D

That said, one of my close friends came within minutes of being kidnapped xmas eve several years ago and he was staying in a private residence near Clark, an area which feels quite safe.

Not to say that one shouldn't be careful, but it is hard to compare what a tourist will encounter with what a rich local from the country's minority has to deal with.

In terms of safety, the general rule of thumb is that the southern islands of the Philippines (think Mindanao) are more "dangerous."


Also there are loads of American service people in Seoul who are very friendly after a beer or ten. :D

I don't think that is anybody's idea of fun :confused:

-> Indonesia is not on the list... Bali is nice I know that much, but should this maybe also be considered, or is it also "out of bounds" at the moment post tsunami and so on...
Please take a look at a map. The tsunami hit the west coast of Aceh, which hasn't been very high on anybody's top destination list thanks to a long-running insurgency. Then you have the bulk of Sumatra, a thousand kilometers of Java and a big chunk o' Borneo, and only then do you have Bali.

Not to say that one shouldn't be careful, but it is hard to compare what a tourist will encounter with what a rich local from the country's minority has to deal with.


Wow! I'm impressed at your ability to read between those lines. My friend is American, but the people he was staying with fit your charactarization to a tee.

However, insofar as the coup attempt was concerned, tourists at large were also very much at risk.

I'd put my two cents in for Cambodia - we decided to spend a few days there while we were in Thailand, figuring that we'd want to spend a couple of weeks in Vietnam and China, so we would do those as separate trips.

Right now Angkor is a great place to visit - not too expensive, plenty of support services (guides, drivers, hotels, restaurants), and it's not too crowded at the temples. But as more and more tourists go to Angkor, it'll get really crowded and restrictive - now you can climb all around the temples, but at some point I'm sure they will begin to restrict access.

Please take a look at a map. The tsunami hit the west coast of Aceh, which hasn't been very high on anybody's top destination list thanks to a long-running insurgency. Then you have the bulk of Sumatra, a thousand kilometers of Java and a big chunk o' Borneo, and only then do you have Bali.

Firstly sorry I think my post about the Tsunami area was written in a way that could be misunderstood. We have been to Bali, actually had our honeymoon there, and Bali is great would love to be back, but not this time. I was more refering to Indonesia as such, wondering how the tourist industry was doing here, and if this should be considered as a possibility for our trip...

Concerning Cambodja, this certainly is on our "love to do" list. Great to hear that it's still fairly quiet.

Interesting comments about South Korea. Was actually wanting to get a glimpse of the high tech Korea, I have some friends who work for www.innovationlab.dk that were there on a study trip and were quiet amazed by some of the korean companies pace. Also as the finances on this trip won't take us on one of the exciting North Korea packages descriped by Swanhunter in the Tripreport section of FT, we were hoping to be able to visit the DMZ zone from the south.

Concerning the Phillipines i think this is off our list for this trip.

Concerning Cambodja, this certainly is on our "love to do" list. Great to hear that it's still fairly quiet.

Interesting comments about South Korea. Was actually wanting to get a glimpse of the high tech Korea, I have some friends who work for www.innovationlab.dk that were there on a study trip and were quiet amazed by some of the korean companies pace. Also as the finances on this trip won't take us on one of the exciting North Korea packages descriped by Swanhunter in the Tripreport section of FT, we were hoping to be able to visit the DMZ zone from the south.

Concerning the Phillipines i think this is off our list for this trip.

I spent 4,5 hours in Seoul today and was not bored at all. ;) Btw, you can visit DPRK even without a visa by attending Package Tours to the Hyundai-Asan owned resort of Mt.Kumgang ("Diamond Mountain")

Please clarify about this: Mt.Kumgang I am not sure I understand this idea fully

I don't think that is anybody's idea of fun :confused:

Well it is clearly fun for the young Americans who do it. And it can be fun for anyone if they take my first tip regarding Soju. In the end it's up to your attitude.

Well it is clearly fun for the young Americans who do it. And it can be fun for anyone if they take my first tip regarding Soju. In the end it's up to your attitude.

I see. I guess the next time I am feeling a little depressed and lonely and want to get trashed with some young Americans, I'll hop on a flight to Seoul. :(

Take train or plane to Ho Chi Minh City/Saigon
Spend a few days in Saigon then take riverboat tour of Mekong Delta
From Saigon, either take shared taxi to Phnom Penh then plane/boat to Angkor Wat or fly direct to Angkor Wat
Spend 3 full days exploring Angkor Wat
Fly back to Bangkok


This sounds like a great itinerary. The only change I would make is to go directly overland from the Mekong Delta to Phnom Penh, crossing the border at Chau Doc.

Cambodia is a great place and, though still very relaxed and laid back, is changing fast. Siem Reap (the town nearest the Angkor Wat complex) has been changing especially fast. Other parts of the country are starting to see some tourism, but are still thankfully empty of the big groups that you see many other places in the region.

So yes - I would say, come to Cambodia, see Angkor (truly amazing) and perhaps some of the other areas.

- Michael

You might consider devoting more time to China if you haven't been there - so much to see and it's changing so fast. Beijing is my favorite, but Shanghai is mindblowing (especially if you were there years ago as well), cities like Lhasa (Tibet), Urumqui (out West), Guilin, all have charm - and an amazing detour, although expensive, would be Mongolia.

Vietnam is very interesting (was there 2 years ago) - one writer mentioned some good places to go and I know many who have raved about Cambodia.

I personally love KL, although many people don't. In Thailand you should definitely go to the Golden Triangle (up North) - you can avoid Langkawi and instead go to Phuket or better yet, Bali - I personally really like Bali.

Back in Africa, you didn't mention Zanzibar. While I haven't been there, most people speak highly of it.

I haven't heard many good things about the Philippines. It is one of the most dangerous countries in the world and doesn't seem to have that many positives to outweigh the negatives.

Good luck.

This sounds like a great itinerary. The only change I would make is to go directly overland from the Mekong Delta to Phnom Penh, crossing the border at Chau Doc.

Cambodia is a great place and, though still very relaxed and laid back, is changing fast. Siem Reap (the town nearest the Angkor Wat complex) has been changing especially fast. Other parts of the country are starting to see some tourism, but are still thankfully empty of the big groups that you see many other places in the region.

What other areas in Cambodia would you suggest? Any interesting places to stop between Chau Doc and Phnom Penh? Thanks.

You might consider devoting more time to China if you haven't been there - so much to see and it's changing so fast. Beijing is my favorite, but Shanghai is mindblowing (especially if you were there years ago as well), cities like Lhasa (Tibet), Urumqui (out West), Guilin, all have charm - and an amazing detour, although expensive, would be Mongolia.

Vietnam is very interesting (was there 2 years ago) - one writer mentioned some good places to go and I know many who have raved about Cambodia.

I personally love KL, although many people don't. In Thailand you should definitely go to the Golden Triangle (up North) - you can avoid Langkawi and instead go to Phuket or better yet, Bali - I personally really like Bali.

Back in Africa, you didn't mention Zanzibar. While I haven't been there, most people speak highly of it.

I haven't heard many good things about the Philippines. It is one of the most dangerous countries in the world and doesn't seem to have that many positives to outweigh the negatives.

Good luck.

I was on Zanzibar last year, whilst visiting Tanzania for a conference, though having a charming slow pace it wasn't as fantastic as I had imagined. Therefore we will try out the seychelles this time to see if this has more magic and beauty than Zanzibar.

I agree that Bali is wonderful, but think that KL will be most southern part of our travel. I too like KL, the evening market, the atmosphere and not least the great hotels at great prices, where else do you find a Ritz Carlton or Madarin Oriental for less than 100 usd! incl. breakfast. Thats barely gets me a bad two star hotel here in Copenhagen or Aarhus.

What other areas in Cambodia would you suggest? Any interesting places to stop between Chau Doc and Phnom Penh? Thanks.
We only went to Siem Reap and Phnom Penh (which we really enjoyed), but if we had more time, we would have spent a day or two in Kampot (http://www.talesofasia.com/cambodia-kampot-guide-intro.htm), not too far from Chau Doc.

We only went to Siem Reap and Phnom Penh (which we really enjoyed), but if we had more time, we would have spent a day or two in Kampot (http://www.talesofasia.com/cambodia-kampot-guide-intro.htm), not too far from Chau Doc.

allisonflyer beat me to it: I was also going to recommend Kampot and nearby Kep. I was down there a few weekends ago and, though it has changed quite a bit in the last few years, it remains my favorite provincial capital. Kep is also close by (20-30 minutes) and the lodging options there have improved immeasurably in the last couple of years. Both places have great (though different) scenery, decaying but beautiful architecture, fantastic seafood, and a very relaxed lifestyle. You can stay in either place and see the sights of the area -- or stay 1-2 nights in each place.

In addition to the Tales of Asia website (which is now a bit outdated), I would check out the advertiser-supported Canby Publications guide sections on Kampot (http://www.canbypublications.com/sihnoukville/kampotintro.htm) and Kep (http://www.canbypublications.com/sihnoukville/kepintro.htm), (especially good for their maps, transport info and general descriptions). Also, the NYT just ran an article on Kampot and Kep (http://travel2.nytimes.com/mem/travel/article-page.html?res=990CE6DD1F3EF937A15757C0A9639C8B63&n=Top%2fFeatures%2fTravel%2fDestinations%2fAsia%2f Cambodia) a few weeks ago (as well as one on Siem Reap (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/22/travel/22surf.html?n=Top%2fFeatures%2fTravel%2fDestinatio ns%2fAsia%2fCambodia)).

Re: travel between Chau Doc and Kampot/Kep, I know that there are a number of independent tour guides and hotels/travel agencies that advertise transport directly from Kampot/Kep to Chau Doc -- and so I imagine that you can do it in the other direction. But you might want to contact one of the agencies / guides in advance, and arrange to be picked up. I don't know how much a car from Chau Doc to Kampot/Kep costs, but it should be in the neighborhood of $15-$25 o/w (for the whole car, not per person).

Please feel free to let me know if you'd like more information.

Happy travels,
Michael