Travel Technology - Digital Video Camera and new computer system

Hello,

I'm looking for everyone's expertise for my next big investment. I'm looking for a digital camera with good quality and that I can hook up to a Mac and burn movies onto DVD. I was originally looking at this:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00068JKR0/qid=1115748979/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl23/103-6561303-9759067?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

But that price is just too much.

The second thing is that I need a new computer -- i'm leaning towords a Mac because right now i'm on a PC (Vaio) and its driving me nuts -- I miss my iBook. Bluetooth is very important to me (to cut down on wires) since i'm looking to get a bluetooth printer too and probably a wireless keyboard. If the desktop wasn't TOO pricey I was also thinking to getting a new iBook to serve as a companion to the desktop, whether it be a mac or not.

Any suggestions to either the camera or the computer would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd hate to make a bad decision on a big investment like this. Thanks.

The Sony you link to is lovely, but it is also an HDTV camera, for "daily" use you'd be better off with a good 3CCD camera, my personal favourite is the Panasonic GS-150.

These Panasonic devices are pretty much the cheapest 3CCD cameras out there at the moment.

3CCD is better as there is one CCD chip for each color, instead of the camera alternating between each color on just one chip and mixing them together.

The site that I used to purchase my camera was http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ . They have a page (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/CamInfo-Select-The-Best-Camcorders.htm) that shows their favorites at several price points, as well as in-depth reviews. A 3CCD camera similar to the one Scott recommended (the GS120) is their favorite under $800.

As far as computer recommendations, I'll stay out of the PC VS Mac holy wars. If you do choose a Mac desktop, I think the iMac is the sweet spot in the Apple non-portable lineup right now. The 2Ghz 17" or 20" would make for a really sweet editing station, and the included software (iMovie and iDVD) is really capable. We've had lots of fun with it.

PC's ROCKS! Mac's SUCK!

;)

As Scott noted, the FX1 is an HD camcorder. At the moment, there are absolutely no delivery vehicles for video that it produces, and editing it will be quite a pain. I don't know about Mac solutions, but editing on the PC can be done with Premiere Pro AND an expensive additional plug-in from MediaConcepts.

A far better choice is a good 3-CCD machine. If you're shooting home stuff, the hands-down, most-bang-for-the-book, extraordinary video quality, low-light wizard solution is the prosumer Sony VX2100. If you're shooting pro and need XLR mike inputs, look at the professional version, the PD-170.

I'm not a big fan of the Panny 3-CCD machines. The better ones don't have as good low-light performance as the Sony, and the lower-priced ones are just dismal.

One other note: Robin Liss' site (camcorderinfo.com) is quite good and comprehensive, but Robin's reviews are sometimes quite subjective and a little odd.

With camcorders, a critical question is what you intend to use them for. So . . . what do you intend to use it for?

Incidently, I'm a PC guy so, I suppose, I'm biased, but I also believe that any tool which does the job is the right tool. Macs have no advantage over PCs for video editing and production, cost significantly more, and has fewer software options available.

With camcorders, a critical question is what you intend to use them for. So . . . what do you intend to use it for?

Well first off, what the heck does 3-CCD mean. As far as that high def. camera, I thought that Mac had a whole line of HD movie editing software but regardless, that's really expensive.

What I intend to use it for:

Well, for filming things :D Mainly low budget films around the area -- like filming "new episodes" of discontinued TV series with my friends playing the characters or for vacation footage. Perhaps cheesy documentaries? I'm not really sure.

As far as Mac VS. PC for movie edited -- I always was lead to believe that Macs were HANDS DOWN better for that task. Have I been deceived? I was looking at the iMac's and they look really nice -- my knowledge of PC's (and electronics in general) generally is whatever is in this weeks Best Buy Ad :p so all this is GREATLY appriciated!

Edited to add:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000X0VU6/qid=1115761072/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-6561303-9759067?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

Is that what you were talking about PTravel?

Links would be greatly appriciated

(Edited again for typos)

As Scott noted, the FX1 is an HD camcorder. At the moment, there are absolutely no delivery vehicles for video that it produces, and editing it will be quite a pain. I don't know about Mac solutions, but editing on the PC can be done with Premiere Pro AND an expensive additional plug-in from MediaConcepts.

You can edit HDV with Apple's iMovie - the program that comes free with Macs. If you find iMovie limiting (I don't, but I don't do anything fancy), you could move up to Final Cut Express ($299). You're really not likely to need Apple's Pro line, but Final Cut Studio, which includes Final Cut Pro 5, Soundtrack Pro, Motion 2 and DVD Studio Pro 4 is a steal at $1299 for those who need it. As far as delivery vehicles go, you can make 16:9 DVDs and use the extra pixels for cropping/reframing, or you can output the video to your HDTV.

Apple hardware is usually more expensive than PC hardware, but it comes with much better software. I think if you compare the total package between an iMac and a Dell, you'll find they come out about the same.

The site that I used to purchase my camera was http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ . They have a page (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/CamInfo-Select-The-Best-Camcorders.htm) that shows their favorites at several price points, as well as in-depth reviews. A 3CCD camera similar to the one Scott recommended (the GS120) is their favorite under $800.

As far as computer recommendations, I'll stay out of the PC VS Mac holy wars. If you do choose a Mac desktop, I think the iMac is the sweet spot in the Apple non-portable lineup right now. The 2Ghz 17" or 20" would make for a really sweet editing station, and the included software (iMovie and iDVD) is really capable. We've had lots of fun with it.

What camera do you have? Also, which would you lean towords, fully loaded 12" ibook or fully loaded 17" imac?

I have the GS120 and the 12" iBook. The GS150 has replaced the GS120. If video editing is your primary reason for the computer, I'd get the iMac. It's got a faster processor, a DVD burner, a better video card, more RAM, and a bigger and faster disk, all of which are important for video editing. The iBook's only advantage is its portability.

You'll probably want to bump the RAM, but I wouldn't buy it from Apple. They really overcharge for RAM upgrades. Get either 512MB or 1 GB from crucial. Also you will probably want a bluetooth mouse with more than 1 button.

I would not buy FCE until you've played with iMovie. It's really fairly capable.

So what is the difference between the GS120 and this:


http://reviews.cnet.com/Panasonic_PV_GS250/4505-6500_7-31267070-2.html?tag=top

As far as iMovie, i've heard it's an incredible movie editing program.

murphy , you edit with your iBook? How well does the GS120 communicate with the Mac? Firewire to connect the two I presume?

Thanks for all this advice guys -- it's nice to be armed with all this knowledge for a purchases this big and not having to rely on that Best Buy weekly Ad.

So wait a second -- say with the GS120 (http://reviews.cnet.com/4545-6500_7-30671357.html?tag=tab), it is a digital video camera correct? How does it connect to the computer? Firewire? Also, when you film is it filmed onto a cartridge and the computer copies from that cartridge or is it saved to memory. I'm confused :confused: :( Just want to make sure I don't inadvertly purchase the wrong thing...

So wait a second -- say with the GS120 (http://reviews.cnet.com/4545-6500_7-30671357.html?tag=tab), it is a digital video camera correct? How does it connect to the computer? Firewire? Also, when you film is it filmed onto a cartridge and the computer copies from that cartridge or is it saved to memory. I'm confused :confused: :( Just want to make sure I don't inadvertly purchase the wrong thing...
Yes, these are digital video cameras. They write onto miniDV cartridges. You use firewire to move the data to a computer and edit it. The GS120 is an old model - it's been replaced by the GS150, which has more pixels. The GS250 looks similar to the 150, but is higher resolution. Here's (http://www.pana3ccduser.com/article.php?filename=Review:-PV-GS150-and-PV-GS250) a side-by-side review of the two. You may also want to look at the GS400, the comp Sony models, and the Canon Optura models. I don't know much about the other brands, but the VX2100 that Ptravel recommmended looks really nice. It's almost certainly a better camera than the GS150 or 250. I'd guess it's more comparable to the GS400.

The GS120 communicates flawlessly with my iBook. I plug the firewire cable in, and that's about it. No drivers to install or anything. One of the best things about the Mac is the seemlessness of the experience with my cameras - both still and video. The iBook is okay for video editing, but if I were going to spend most of my time doing it, I'd want something faster.

I feel like every time I post I add to your confusion. Sorry. I always have a hard time making purchasing decisions like this, too. I agonized over the camera choice for weeks. You ought to go to a store and play with them a little. If you can, buy it somewhere without a restock fee. If you're unhappy with it, take it back.

Auxiliary question: I already have the hardware: a Sony digital videocam and an Intel-based PC. It's a P-4 with USB2.0, plenty of RAM, an 8x DVD burner (although I have a huge stack of 4x media 'cause it was cheap) and a good enough video card to handle my home movie editing.

My question is software.

I'm using Roxio 7.0 now, and it works, but it's cumbersome. Is there anything out there that is somewhat better? My constraint is that for now I'm not considering new hardware, so don't say "Go buy a Mac!" :)

My "holy grail" application would be one that would provide for photo, music, and video organization, editing, and media creation. Roxio has most of these features, but they just seem kind of duct-taped together. There isn't a seamless, intuitive GUI to get a complete noob like me through the process of editing and creating a home movie, with some stills and music dropped in, with attractive DVD menus, transitions, etc. without hosing it up a dozen times.

Well first off, what the heck does 3-CCD mean.

Video 101: ;)

"CCD" means "charge-coupled device." It's the kind of light sensor used in camcorders (many, if not most, high-quality digital still cameras use CMOS -- complimentary molybdenum-oxide substrate). A single-CCD camcorder has one such device, which consists of many small sensors on a single substrate. Overlaying the substrate is a matrix of tiny red, green and blue filters, which allows the camera to generate a full-color image. 3-CCD cameras have three sensors. Light reaches them, usually, by passing through a beam-splitting prism and dichoric filters -- one filter will receive red, one green and the other blue.

Low-light performance, i.e. how sensitive the camcorder is to poorly-lit subjects, is a function of sensor size and, to a lesser extent, sensor density. The bigger the sensor, the more light falls on it and the better the low-light performance. For awhile now, consumer camcorder manufacturers have been adding gizmos, gimmicks and doodads as marketing ploys. The most destructive of these, from the standpoint of video quality, is "high resolution" digital still imaging capability. First, it is "high resolution" only in the context of camcorders -- even the meanest p&s digital still camera will have as good or better resolution. However, packing extra sensors sites on the CCD diminishes low-light sensitivity. The combination of shrinking form-factors and high-resolution still imaging means that consumer camcorders perform absymally in low-light.

Bringing this discussion back to 3-CCD machines, a 3-CCD camcorder that uses 1/4" sensors (huge in comparison to many consumer models which are down to 1/6") will have 3/4" of sensor area to gather light. A single CCD camcorder will only 1/4", so the 3-CCD machine will have far more light sensitivity.

Cross-talk between sensor sites in a 1-CCD machines causes chroma noise -- very tiny speckles of differing colors that look like grain. 3-CCD machines use physically separate sensors for each color, so there is no cross-talk. As a result, 3-CCD machines have vastly reduced chroma noise as well as better color saturation.

With all that said, Panasonic introduced a line of inexpensive consumer 3-CCD machines. The lower range of these machines have small CCDs, mediocre glass, and middling electronics. They have poor low-light performance and the quality of their video is actually below that produced by some of the top-of-the-line Canon and Sony single-CCD camcorders.

So, there you have it: probably far more than you wanted to know about 3-CCD machines. ;)

As far as that high def. camera, I thought that Mac had a whole line of HD movie editing software but regardless, that's really expensive.

First of all, you have to define what you mean by HD. JVC and Sony both produce prosumer camcorders that they designate as "HD." The JVC is 720p, the Sony is 1080i. However, both use a version of mpeg compression to store video on standard miniDV cassettes -- raw HD video would consumer far more storage than could practically be contained on a miniDV/miniDV-cam cassette.

Editing this stuff is more complex than merely editing HD. Mpeg is a lossy-compression format that produces intermediate frames by calculating differences between base frames, i.e. most frames in an mpeg video file do not contain the complete data necessary to reconstruct them. This makes frame-accurate editing quite difficult.

There are software packages available for both Mac and PC that will allow exisiting editors to handle the output of both the JVC and Sony HD camcorders. However, because of the gymanastics involved in editing the mpeg-encoded HD, you'll need a very powerful computer, a fair amount of memory and, in any event, editing will still be less fluid and more awkward than with uncompressed, or non-lossy compressed formats.

I have the HD mpeg-plugin installed on my PC system (I run Premiere Pro 1.5) because it's an easy way to work with standard definition mpeg video. On my 3 GHz Pentium 4 with 512 meg of RAM, previews, renders and even timeline scrubs of mpeg material are slowed compared to the DV-codec video that I usually work with. I wouldn't expect signficant slowing from Sony or JVC HD material beyond what I'm already experiencing, but the fact remains that it's a lot easier to work with non-mpeg source footage.

What I intend to use it for:

Well, for filming things :D Mainly low budget films around the area -- like filming "new episodes" of discontinued TV series with my friends playing the characters or for vacation footage. Perhaps cheesy documentaries? I'm not really sure.

Everything depends on "how cheesy." ;)

I'm only an amateur, but I'm fairly advanced in the kinds of stuff that I do. I have a Sony VX2000, which is a prosumer 3-CCD machine. These cameras, and their successors (the VX2100), produce extraordinary, better-than-broadcast-quality video, and are used for ENG (electronic news gathering) by the BBC. The prosumer version has a built-in stereo microphone, stereo minijack for external mikes, a color viewfinder and uses miniDV only. The professional version (the PD150/170) has a monophonic on-camera microphone, XLR jacks for plugging in external mikes, and a black and white viewfinder, which facilitates critical focusing.

The movie "Open Water" was shot, at least partially, with a stock VX2000.

Up from this is the Canon XL series, which offer the advantage of interchangeable lenses, considered critical if you're really going to be making movies. The movie "28 Days Later" was shot with these. Note, though, that you're not going make a film like that with a stock camera -- you'll take the body, buy extremely expensive accessory lenses, add matte boxes, and put it on a custom rig to hold the whole thing on a large and expensive video head and tripod.

The VX2000/2100 is bigger and heavier than an average consumer camcorder, but no so big or heavy that it isn't feasible to use for travel (that's what I use it for). The XL1/2 is bigger and heavier still. I've seen folks travel with one, but it's really too big for that.

As far as Mac VS. PC for movie edited -- I always was lead to believe that Macs were HANDS DOWN better for that task. Have I been deceived?

Depends on what you mean by "better." At the prosumer level, PCs are cheaper, software is cheaper, and there are far more titles available than for Macs. At that level, Macs offer no advantage over PCs, unless you're already heavily invested in Mac hardware and software.

I was looking at the iMac's and they look really nice -- my knowledge of PC's (and electronics in general) generally is whatever is in this weeks Best Buy Ad :p so all this is GREATLY appriciated!

I've always put together my own PCs, so I can't suggest any brands. If you're knowledge of computers is limited, you may not want to go this route, though it's really become quite simple to assemble a PC from components.


Edited to add:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000X0VU6/qid=1115761072/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-6561303-9759067?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

Is that what you were talking about PTravel?

It is, but the description is completely wrong. The VX2100 isn't a high definition camcorder. Also, the street price at a reputable store, e.g. B&H or Adorama, should be around $2,200 out-the-door.

Links would be greatly appriciated

(Edited again for typos)

Try here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=303956&is=REG

Auxiliary question: I already have the hardware: a Sony digital videocam and an Intel-based PC. It's a P-4 with USB2.0, plenty of RAM, an 8x DVD burner (although I have a huge stack of 4x media 'cause it was cheap) and a good enough video card to handle my home movie editing.

My question is software.

I'm using Roxio 7.0 now, and it works, but it's cumbersome. Is there anything out there that is somewhat better? My constraint is that for now I'm not considering new hardware, so don't say "Go buy a Mac!" :)

My "holy grail" application would be one that would provide for photo, music, and video organization, editing, and media creation. Roxio has most of these features, but they just seem kind of duct-taped together. There isn't a seamless, intuitive GUI to get a complete noob like me through the process of editing and creating a home movie, with some stills and music dropped in, with attractive DVD menus, transitions, etc. without hosing it up a dozen times.

Unfortunately, you're trying to mix apples and oranges.

For a good, flexible, intuitive entry-level video editing program, take a look at Pinnacle Studio 9 or Adobe Premiere Elements. Studio 9 is probably a bit more capable, but it is notoriously finnicky about the hardware configuration of the computers on which it is run. Unfortunately, there are few goo all-in-one packages. Going from camcorder to DVD requires a few distinct steps:

1. Capture (bringing the video into the computer)
2. Editing (rearranging clips, adding titles, special effects, corrections, etc.)
3. Transcoding (converting the video into DVD-compliant mpeg format)
4. Authoring (creating the menus, buttons and linkages for the DVD)
5. Burning (burning the finished, formatted DVD information to a DVD)

If you want good results, use the best software for each of these applications. My work chain is as follows:

Capture: Scenealyzer Live
Editing: Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5
Transcoding: tmpgenc 3.5
Authoring: Adobe Encore 1.5
Burning: Nero 6.0

You can, without giving up too much, rely on your video editor for capturing, editing and transcoding. At minimum, I'd recommend a separate package for authoring and burning, unless you plan on only the most basic, stark menus.

Note that Scenealyzer Live, tmpgenc and Nero are all very inexpensive programs. Premiere and Encore aren't, but you could use Premiere Elements or Studio for your editor. Unfortunately, I have no suggestions for an inexpensive authoring program -- they're around, but I never found one that was full-featured enough for me.

An open letter to those saying to go with a PC for video:

The beauty of Apple is that they give you one software package with everything you need to do all those steps, iLife (consumer) or Final Cut Studio (professional). All of the applications in those packages are great, stable and user friendly IMO. I am a camera operator not an editor, so I mainly use it (FCP) for personal projects.

Mac has Avid too.

I personally find Macs much more stable (unix) and my mac has never frozen to where I have had to restart. I hear that Windows is getting a little better in this regard, but I will stick to mac, you don't have to convert, I'm just giving my two cents.

Video 101: ;)

"CCD" means "charge-coupled device." It's the kind of light sensor used in camcorders (many, if not most, high-quality digital still cameras use CMOS -- complimentary molybdenum-oxide substrate). A single-CCD camcorder has one such device, which consists of many small sensors on a single substrate. Overlaying the substrate is a matrix of tiny red, green and blue filters, which allows the camera to generate a full-color image. 3-CCD cameras have three sensors. Light reaches them, usually, by passing through a beam-splitting prism and dichoric filters -- one filter will receive red, one green and the other blue.

Low-light performance, i.e. how sensitive the camcorder is to poorly-lit subjects, is a function of sensor size and, to a lesser extent, sensor density. The bigger the sensor, the more light falls on it and the better the low-light performance. For awhile now, consumer camcorder manufacturers have been adding gizmos, gimmicks and doodads as marketing ploys. The most destructive of these, from the standpoint of video quality, is "high resolution" digital still imaging capability. First, it is "high resolution" only in the context of camcorders -- even the meanest p&s digital still camera will have as good or better resolution. However, packing extra sensors sites on the CCD diminishes low-light sensitivity. The combination of shrinking form-factors and high-resolution still imaging means that consumer camcorders perform absymally in low-light.

Bringing this discussion back to 3-CCD machines, a 3-CCD camcorder that uses 1/4" sensors (huge in comparison to many consumer models which are down to 1/6") will have 3/4" of sensor area to gather light. A single CCD camcorder will only 1/4", so the 3-CCD machine will have far more light sensitivity.

Cross-talk between sensor sites in a 1-CCD machines causes chroma noise -- very tiny speckles of differing colors that look like grain. 3-CCD machines use physically separate sensors for each color, so there is no cross-talk. As a result, 3-CCD machines have vastly reduced chroma noise as well as better color saturation.

With all that said, Panasonic introduced a line of inexpensive consumer 3-CCD machines. The lower range of these machines have small CCDs, mediocre glass, and middling electronics. They have poor low-light performance and the quality of their video is actually below that produced by some of the top-of-the-line Canon and Sony single-CCD camcorders.

So, there you have it: probably far more than you wanted to know about 3-CCD machines. ;)


That's the most lucid tutorial on digital imaging I've ever read. Thanks! I'll defer to you on camera quality - I think you're a much more professional amateur than me.

At the prosumer level, PCs are cheaper, software is cheaper, and there are far more titles available than for Macs. At that level, Macs offer no advantage over PCs, unless you're already heavily invested in Mac hardware and software.
This just isn't true. I wouldn't recommend junking perfectly good PC hardware and replacing with Mac, but if you're starting from scratch, the PC hardware/software combo will in no way be cheaper than the Mac hardware/software combo. With the Mac, you get the workflow Pinniped was requesting, without using software from five different companies. And it's included with the hardware.

PTravel Thank you so much for the explanation!!! It really opened my eyes and cleared a lot of things up.

Depends on what you mean by "better." At the prosumer level, PCs are cheaper, software is cheaper, and there are far more titles available than for Macs. At that level, Macs offer no advantage over PCs, unless you're already heavily invested in Mac hardware and software.

Well this system would basically be dedicated to film editing and I haven't investied in anything at all yet, which explains all my questions. I'm spending so much buying all the equipment at once and figured since it's such a large purchase I better get it right :p

One things I was concerned about -- I am also really interesting in being able to film in TRUE widescreen so that it fits perfectly on my Widescreen HDTV -- do any of these camera's offer that option?

PTravel That camera looks really good, i'll definately look into that. It looks as though it will be perfect.

Thanks for all your help too murphy

This just isn't true. I wouldn't recommend junking perfectly good PC hardware and replacing with Mac, but if you're starting from scratch, the PC hardware/software combo will in no way be cheaper than the Mac hardware/software combo. With the Mac, you get the workflow Pinniped was requesting, without using software from five different companies. And it's included with the hardware.

As I noted in another post, there are standalone software packages for the PC that incorporate the entire workflow into a single program. Like all jack-of-all-trades, however, they represent signficant compromises and won't produce the best results. The same is true of the Mac -- I'm not sure, but I suspect you can burn a DVD from the timeline in Final Cut Pro, just as you can with Premiere Pro. However, I can't imagine anyone working in FCP (which is a very, very fine editor) using it to produce fully-authored DVDs.

As for relative cost, I again must respectfully disagree. My current editing machine, a 3 GHz P4 with 512 meg of RAM, cost me about $400 to assemble. I don't know whether Macs now accept PC-standard hard drives. If they do, then that's an advantage the PC no longer can boast. If not, however, PC-standard drives are virtually commodity items -- you can get a 200 meg drive for well under $100. Video consumes huge amounts of hard-drive real estate; my editing sysem has 1.25 terabytes of storage and is practically full.

The only "pricey" software that I use is Premiere Pro and Encore. There are very low-cost, entry level alternatives to both. Studio lists for around $99, and is frequently discounted to about half of that. The Windows XP operating system comes with Microsoft Movie. Studio can author and burn from the timeline (I'm not sure about Movie). Better authoring programs run in the $50 range. Tmpgenc is, hands down, the best software transcoder for the money on any platform and only costs a whopping $35 -- it's a far better transcoder than anything built-in to off-the-shelf software (including FCP and Premiere).

I assume you're referring to iMovie in your post. Everything I've read indicates that it is comparable to Microsoft's included product. Both are, essentially, toys. Yes, they'll capture video, allow nominal editing, and burn DVDs. However, doing more than the most casual transfer of video to DVD requires more powerful software. There's a huge selection in the entry-level range for PC; far less for the Mac.

To a great extent, Mac vs. PC is a matter of personal preference and, having used both, I admit to a bias in favor of PC. However, there are two factors which clearly favor the PC: overall cost (for equivalent functionality) and number of available titles.

One things I was concerned about -- I am also really interesting in being able to film in TRUE widescreen so that it fits perfectly on my Widescreen HDTV -- do any of these camera's offer that option?
Remember that widescreen and HD are two different things. The VX2100/PD-170 has a 16:9 widescreen mode, but it does it by using a portion of the sensor. Frankly, I haven't paid too much attention to this feature, so I don't know how well it does it. Sony has a consumer 3-ccd, the TRV-950, that does true 16:9, i.e. the proportions of its sensor support the widescreen format. However, though the camera does well in bright light, it's not very good in low-light situations.

An open letter to those saying to go with a PC for video:

The beauty of Apple is that they give you one software package with everything you need to do all those steps, iLife (consumer) or Final Cut Studio (professional). All of the applications in those packages are great, stable and user friendly IMO. I am a camera operator not an editor, so I mainly use it (FCP) for personal projects.

Mac has Avid too.

I personally find Macs much more stable (unix) and my mac has never frozen to where I have had to restart. I hear that Windows is getting a little better in this regard, but I will stick to mac, you don't have to convert, I'm just giving my two cents.

You're running unix on your Mac? Unix/Linux systems tend to be more stable than Microsoft OS systems. However, XP Pro is pretty good, and I've never had to do a cold boot to fix a freeze. In fact, I've never had a true freeze; though a program may crash, I've never had it take down the OS.

As for all-in-one packages, PCs have them too. Adobe has a very nice suite and, from what I've read, just as nice as FCP. The low-end all-in-one packages, whether Mac or PC, tend to be toys or, at least, incorporate aspects of toys in that they do not provide full control over the edit/transcode/author process. When things are done "transparently," it always involves the software making choices which may not be optimum from the standpoint of a particular process.

It's great that Avid runs on Mac but, unless someone plans to make their living from video, I wouldn't recommend Avid on either Mac or PC platforms -- it's really overkill.

Well after some research I think i'm going to wait on the Sony prosumer camera model for a couple months. In the mean time I was thinking of going with a relatively inexpensive camera to do some basic/pre-work before I get completely serious. I've been checking out reviews of the Panasonic models and the things i've been noticing in a lot of the reviews is the the lower priced models are just....for a lack of a better word, crappy preformance wise. While I don't want to break the bank here, I also don't want to have a sorry excuse of a camera and waste money on it. I plan to give it to my mother after I'm done with it. I was also considering picking up one of those small digital camera's that are relatively flat and can fit in your pocket, but I haven't really heard anything about them and if i'm not mistaken their a bit on the pricey side.

As far as computers go -- i've been searching around and I can't find a decent PC so i'm leaning more and more towords the iMac. I don't dare to go to a brick and morter store like CompUSA or of course the ever popular best buy and the local Mac Store is a bit of a...well...it's just not the kind of shopping experience I'd expect or want. I'll probably order online or call it in (which one would be better)?

Once again, thanks for all this help.

As far a system goes, it looks like it's between:

The PC:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=999935600050013&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01173&id=pcmprd35700050013

A little pricey but since it's a PC I know that I'll have no compadabity issues with a video camera or what-not

OR

The Mac:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-http://www.apple.com/imac/

Specs: http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html

I was looking at the middle one -- the 17" 2.0 I'm honestly leaning towords this one but my #1 concern is that if I get this one compatablity issues ESPECIALLY with the camera I purchase or is it safe to say that most/all digital camera's will work with this since iMovie will take care of the compatabiltie/drivers (or whatever you want to call them -- my mind is kind of out there right now, sorry).


If I purchase the PC im' thinking of getting a "cheap" iBook just because I miss the Mac world (this pc is driving me bananas). If I purchase the mac, i'll be happy execpt for the compatabilty issue in the back of my head but as long as the camera's will communicate with the computer, then there's no reason for me to fret...I guess.

As far as the mac is concerned, 512MB should be plenty of memory, right? I'd hate to have to bite the bullet and buy over priced memory (if i'm not mistaken Apple makes it difficult to upgrade their computers).

I'm thinking of making the purchase tonight, just need to think about it and make sure i'm making the right choice since this is a pretty big investment. Thanks again for all your help!

My "holy grail" application would be one that would provide for photo, music, and video organization, editing, and media creation.

Your holy grail is called iLife. It links iPhoto, iTunes, GarageBand, iMovie and iDVD together.

Your ambrosia is iWork, which links with iLife, to incorporate iLife's media into documents and presentations.

I'm not going to tell you to buy a Mac, but perhaps you could borrow one, or lease one, or steal one. Whatever. You are the ideal user, the "the rest of us" that Steve has been dreaming about all these years. He's calling you.


Roxio has most of these features, but they just seem kind of duct-taped together. There isn't a seamless, intuitive GUI to get a complete noob like me through the process of editing and creating a home movie, with some stills and music dropped in, with attractive DVD menus, transitions, etc. without hosing it up a dozen times.

oh, but there is. drink the sweet koolaid nectar of the silicon gods, and you will be free.

<this is what happens when you deal with EDI and XML issues for too long in one day>

You're running unix on your Mac? Unix/Linux systems tend to be more stable than Microsoft OS systems. However, XP Pro is pretty good, and I've never had to do a cold boot to fix a freeze. In fact, I've never had a true freeze; though a program may crash, I've never had it take down the OS.

um... PTravel, the Mac OS has been Unix at the kernel level (BSD to be exact) for about 4.5 years now. Mac OS X=Unix (http://images.apple.com/macosx/pdf/MacOSX_UNIX_TB.pdf). I can open up a terminal window in one click and have emacs running instantly. No emulation.


The low-end all-in-one packages, whether Mac or PC, tend to be toys or, at least, incorporate aspects of toys in that they do not provide full control over the edit/transcode/author process. When things are done "transparently," it always involves the software making choices which may not be optimum from the standpoint of a particular process.

In an earlier post you compared iMovie to MS Movie. The reviews I've read comparing the two conclude that iMovie is vastly more capable and more intuitive. iMovie is a better product. It's not meant for power users, but it is by far the best in its class. That goes for the rest of the iLife suite.

Another point you made earlier is that there isn't as much software available for the mac when it comes to media editing. There is nearly as much, actually. However, third party applications have a very hard time competing with Apple's products, so some products for the PC have not been migrated to the Mac, because it's not worth trying to compete.

Even CNN's field reporters have switched to using 15" or 17" Powerbooks for editing. It has cut down on the amount of gear they schlep significantly.

As far a system goes, it looks like it's between:

The PC:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=999935600050013&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01173&id=pcmprd35700050013

A little pricey but since it's a PC I know that I'll have no compadabity issues with a video camera or what-not

OR

The Mac:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-http://www.apple.com/imac/

Specs: http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html

I was looking at the middle one -- the 17" 2.0 I'm honestly leaning towords this one but my #1 concern is that if I get this one compatablity issues ESPECIALLY with the camera I purchase or is it safe to say that most/all digital camera's will work with this since iMovie will take care of the compatabiltie/drivers (or whatever you want to call them -- my mind is kind of out there right now, sorry).


If I purchase the PC im' thinking of getting a "cheap" iBook just because I miss the Mac world (this pc is driving me bananas). If I purchase the mac, i'll be happy execpt for the compatabilty issue in the back of my head but as long as the camera's will communicate with the computer, then there's no reason for me to fret...I guess.

As far as the mac is concerned, 512MB should be plenty of memory, right? I'd hate to have to bite the bullet and buy over priced memory (if i'm not mistaken Apple makes it difficult to upgrade their computers).

I'm thinking of making the purchase tonight, just need to think about it and make sure i'm making the right choice since this is a pretty big investment. Thanks again for all your help!

Hi TT. I wouldn't worry about Mac compatability with cameras. It's one of the things Macs do best. No drivers to install, no software to install, just plug it in and go. The iMac has both firewire and USB - no worries there.

512 MB may or may not be enough for you. More RAM is always better. Do NOT buy any additional RAM from Apple, though. It is way overpriced. Buy the machine with the base 512MB. If you find the machine swapping alot, you can always buy a stick from a retailer. Adding RAM to the machine is dead easy. The instructions are in the manual. Macs can be picky about RAM, but a stick from a good manufacturer (Corsair, Crucial, Viking, etc.) will work fine, and be lots cheaper than Apple.

I think you'll really enjoy the iMac. The 2 Ghz 17" is a terrific machine.

512 MB may or may not be enough for you. More RAM is always better. Do NOT buy any additional RAM from Apple, though. It is way overpriced. Buy the machine with the base 512MB. If you find the machine swapping alot, you can always buy a stick from a retailer. Adding RAM to the machine is dead easy. The instructions are in the manual. Macs can be picky about RAM, but a stick from a good manufacturer (Corsair, Crucial, Viking, etc.) will work fine, and be lots cheaper than Apple.

Thanks for the reply murphy -- one question on memory though: I was looking at the upgraded 1GB of memory but there are two choices:
2 DIMMs and 1DIMMs. I imagine that the more expensive of the two (2DIMMs) is better just because it costs more but besides that I'm totally miffed on what it means.

If you find the machine swapping alot, you can always buy a stick from a retailer.

What do you mean by swapping?

Is the .mac membership worth the $69? (i believe it's on sale for that price from $99 untill the 21st of may or so...)

On a side note since I seem to be leaning towords the Mac (unless Ptravel can come in and push me to the PC side before I purchase the system whcih will probably be tomorrow sometime), my whole music library is on my PC and I'm thinking of a buying a iPod mini -- obviously if I want to sync it up with my mac i'll have to transfer my songs from the PC to the Mac. Is there a faster way to do that besides burning them onto a plethora of cd's? Will it be safe to do so? I wish I could just put them onto the iPod straight from the pc and manage it from the Mac but I know that's impossible.

Thanks for the reply murphy -- one question on memory though: I was looking at the upgraded 1GB of memory but there are two choices:
2 DIMMs and 1DIMMs. I imagine that the more expensive of the two (2DIMMs) is better just because it costs more but besides that I'm totally miffed on what it means.
A DIMM is a stick. The Imac has 2 slots, so it can hold two sticks. By default, it comes with 1 512MB stick. This means you have 1 slot left. Your choices are:
1) Purchase 1GB from apple as 2 512MB sticks. This means you are out of slots, and cannot add additional RAM. Apple will charge you $125 for this.
2) Purchase 1 GB from Apple as 1 1GB stick. This leaves you with an empty slot for future upgrades. Apple will charge you $175 for this.
3) Purchase 2GB from apple as 2 1GB sticks. Apple will charge you a whopping $475 for this. They should be ashamed of themselves for this ripoff option.
4) Purchase your additional RAM from a thirrd party. Crucial charges $136.98 for a 1GB stick, and $54.58 for a 512MB stick. If you buy one of these without buying additional RAM from Apple, you'll wind up with 1 or 1.5 GB total, which will be plenty. This would be my choice.

Note that if you want 2GB total, you save $175 buying 2 1GB sticks from Crucial and THROWING AWAY the 512MB from Apple. Shame on you Apple!



What do you mean by swapping?

Swapping is when your system doesn't have enough RAM. It swaps data from memory to the hard drive. It makes you system run more slowly, as the disk is much slower than RAM.


Is the .mac membership worth the $69? (i believe it's on sale for that price from $99 untill the 21st of may or so...)

I didn't buy it. It isn't very much space. It does have good integration with iPhoto for sharing your photos on the web, but I felt it was too much money.


On a side note since I seem to be leaning towords the Mac (unless Ptravel can come in and push me to the PC side before I purchase the system whcih will probably be tomorrow sometime), my whole music library is on my PC and I'm thinking of a buying a iPod mini -- obviously if I want to sync it up with my mac i'll have to transfer my songs from the PC to the Mac. Is there a faster way to do that besides burning them onto a plethora of cd's? Will it be safe to do so? I wish I could just put them onto the iPod straight from the pc and manage it from the Mac but I know that's impossible.

I think you can just install iTunes on the PC, sync the iPod, then sync with the mac. I'm not sure about that, though. You could definitely network the two machines and copy the files, though. You can have them on the same network with a hub, or connect them with an ethernet cable.

By the way. Are you a college student or a teacher? Apple has an educational store on their website. The iMac you're looking at is $1399 with the edu discount. I don't know how or whether they verify that you qualify for the discount.

You'll be just fine with going with the Crucial RAM.

Have you considered getting a Powerbook instead of the iMac/iBook combo? The PBook will not be quite up to the level of the iMac in performance, but it will mean that you'll only buy one machine instead of two, which will be more economical. I have a 1 GHz PBook and have found it to be perfectly adequate for photo management and movie editing.

I can see a benefit to having two machines if you travel a lot and want one machine for home and one for you on the road, so that you can videoconference with loved ones back home. My boyfriend and I both have iSights (http://www.apple.com/isight) for just this purpose. I set my Powerbook on his pillow and am able to let his snoring lull me to sleep, just as if he was there with me. :D When I wake up in the morning, I see him working at his hotel desk, and we say good morning to each other as we start our days 1500 miles apart. It's brilliant.

I get a free .Mac account. It truly makes posting pictures and movies easy and quick. My mom uses .Mac also, and it's been a blessing for her. She would never be able to figure out how to publish anything on the web if it were any less seamless. While I would hands-down tell you that it's worth the annual price for her, I'd be a bit more hesitant in making the same claim in my case. I could host a homegrown web site from one of the machines my boyfriend has in the home office. I wouldn't like it though. To give you an idea how easy .Mac is, This past New Year's I imported, edited and published the photos I had taken that night while so drunk that I didn't remember doing it the morning after. :)

If you're interested in taking a look at some .Mac web sites, feel free to PM me. I know of several good examples.

For music, iTunes should do the trick, and importing your library should be rather straightforward. For backing up, I recommend either dragging your iTunes folder to an external hard drive or, if wanting a non-moving part backup medium, back up onto DVD.

Agree on the educational discount comment. If you have a student, faculty or staff member of a school or university in your family of friend circle, you can get a decent discount. I have some other possible options I could offer you if you PM me.

Finally, the Apple Retail stores (http://www.apple.com/retail) are a terriffic resource for looking, purchasing (you can use an educational discount there), learning (they have all kinds of seminars all the time), and obtaining service/support.

Quick question:

It seems as though i'm not going to go with a PC but with a Mac but i'm torn between these two and would greatly appriciate a suggestion.

I'm either going to go with:

17" Imac with Super Drive $1499

OR

12" Powerbook with Super Drive $1699

You can check them out at Apple.com

I don't plan on a lot of traveling in the immediate future so the powerbook would mostly be sitting on a desk (after a year or so if that changes I can always purchase an iBook or something) but as I said for the next year I might go on one or two weekend trips that it could be NICE, but not neccesary to have. I plan to do movie and photo editing and a lot of music listening too. It could be nice to have the Powerbook to sit outside and listen to music/surf the web with or even lie in bed with and surf comfortably but I just don't know -- I hate dealing with decisions like this, lol. I just want to make sure I make the right chioce especially since we're dealing with a lot of money here.

Thanks everyone, plan to make the big purchase tomorrow (Tuesday) -- that way I can stop and pick up Seinfeld season 4 and Toby Keith's new cd at the same time.

The Sony you link to is lovely, but it is also an HDTV camera, for "daily" use you'd be better off with a good 3CCD camera, my personal favourite is the Panasonic GS-150.

These Panasonic devices are pretty much the cheapest 3CCD cameras out there at the moment.

3CCD is better as there is one CCD chip for each color, instead of the camera alternating between each color on just one chip and mixing them together.

I have the GS-200 and love it.

Quick question:

It seems as though i'm not going to go with a PC but with a Mac but i'm torn between these two and would greatly appriciate a suggestion.

I'm either going to go with:

17" Imac with Super Drive $1499

OR

12" Powerbook with Super Drive $1699

You can check them out at Apple.com

I don't plan on a lot of traveling in the immediate future so the powerbook would mostly be sitting on a desk (after a year or so if that changes I can always purchase an iBook or something) but as I said for the next year I might go on one or two weekend trips that it could be NICE, but not neccesary to have. I plan to do movie and photo editing and a lot of music listening too. It could be nice to have the Powerbook to sit outside and listen to music/surf the web with or even lie in bed with and surf comfortably but I just don't know -- I hate dealing with decisions like this, lol. I just want to make sure I make the right chioce especially since we're dealing with a lot of money here.

Thanks everyone, plan to make the big purchase tomorrow (Tuesday) -- that way I can stop and pick up Seinfeld season 4 and Toby Keith's new cd at the same time.

tough call...

I'd go with the portable, because it's so nice to use it wherever you are, instead of being forced to be where it is.
I usually have the computer in my lap when watching TV, sometimes it sits on the kitchen counter as I'm cooking, displaying the recipe for that evening.

However, you'll get less horsepower, HD capacity and video performance in a portable for the money. That's the tradeoff. Worth it for me, but you may weigh things differently.

oh- also, there's a promo on the Apple Store now (and pretty much constantly) where you get a $100 rebate on a printer purchased with any Mac. The entry level printers sell for $100, so you end up getting a free printer with your Mac. This promo is available both on the Web and in the Retail stores.

Hello,

I'm looking for everyone's expertise for my next big investment. I'm looking for a digital camera with good quality and that I can hook up to a Mac and burn movies onto DVD. I was originally looking at this:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00068JKR0/qid=1115748979/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl23/103-6561303-9759067?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

But that price is just too much.

The second thing is that I need a new computer -- i'm leaning towords a Mac because right now i'm on a PC (Vaio) and its driving me nuts -- I miss my iBook. Bluetooth is very important to me (to cut down on wires) since i'm looking to get a bluetooth printer too and probably a wireless keyboard. If the desktop wasn't TOO pricey I was also thinking to getting a new iBook to serve as a companion to the desktop, whether it be a mac or not.

Any suggestions to either the camera or the computer would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd hate to make a bad decision on a big investment like this. Thanks.

Here's what I would recommend, based on my experience in professional video. Stay away from the Sony HDV (or any HDV) camera for right now...without getting into the technical details, it handles video much differently than conventional DV cameras do, and the professional editing software packages are just starting to work HDV into the mix. In addition, there's no real way to play back your footage in high-def yet...

I would go with the Sony PDX-10 camcorder...I've used one for a couple of years now, and it produces excellent quality video in an easy-to-use package. If you're hell-bent on switching to Macs, go ahead...but keep in mind that you're not the only one going nuts from using a Sony VAIO. The reputation isn't very good, and you'd be better off with a Dell or HP laptop if you want to stay in the PC world. Get the most memory and the biggest hard drive your laptop will hold...it will make the difference between editing your video easily and pulling your hair out waiting on the laptop...

Mark

Just another left field observation...

We have a Canon DV - very old, but works beautifully. What we really like about it is the optical (not digital) image stabiliser - if you can, spend some time with DV camcorder that has optical stabilisation.

A smooth video that's near broadcast grade is a lot easier to watch than a HD jerky version.

Well, it looks like i'm getting the Powerbook unless someone can change my mind before I go to the store tomorrow.

One question:

Concerning the digital camera's and bringing them to the mac, what the rule is on how much space raw video takes up per minute? I'd like to know to see if my HD is big enough for what I intend to do. Thanks.

Here's what I would recommend, based on my experience in professional video. Stay away from the Sony HDV (or any HDV) camera for right now...without getting into the technical details, it handles video much differently than conventional DV cameras do, and the professional editing software packages are just starting to work HDV into the mix. In addition, there's no real way to play back your footage in high-def yet...

I would go with the Sony PDX-10 camcorder...I've used one for a couple of years now, and it produces excellent quality video in an easy-to-use package. If you're hell-bent on switching to Macs, go ahead...but keep in mind that you're not the only one going nuts from using a Sony VAIO. The reputation isn't very good, and you'd be better off with a Dell or HP laptop if you want to stay in the PC world. Get the most memory and the biggest hard drive your laptop will hold...it will make the difference between editing your video easily and pulling your hair out waiting on the laptop...

Mark

The PDX-10 is the pro version of the TRV-950. It's a nice camera, but has poor low-light performance. If you need true 16 x 9, it's a way to go, but if you're shooting 4 x 3, you'll get better video and low light performance from the VX2100.

Well, it looks like i'm getting the Powerbook unless someone can change my mind before I go to the store tomorrow.

One question:

Concerning the digital camera's and bringing them to the mac, what the rule is on how much space raw video takes up per minute? I'd like to know to see if my HD is big enough for what I intend to do. Thanks.

miniDV is DV-25 spec, and uses about 13 gigabytes per hour of video.