Travel Technology - Sony NW-HD5: Going to kill off the ipod?

Sony Article (http://www.sony.co.uk/PageView.do?site=odw_en_GB&page=MagazineWithArticleFirstSection&article=1109586889283&section=en_GB_Magazine_Entertainment&campaignID=GBSPEX-PR)
Some decent pics (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050408/dev108.htm)

Features:
First and formost:

FULL MP3 compatibility

Here goes:

-40 hours battery life compared to apples measly 16
-REMOVABLE BATTERY (better than apples internal that dies after 18 months)
-SMALLER, and lighter (Size comparison photo (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050408/dev10813.jpg))
-FULL MP3 compatibility
-Horizontal and Vertical use of the unit
-6 Band equalizer, fully customizable (No Apple presets)
-20gb capacity

There is also a 30GB limited edition version available in black :cool:

Sounds like a winner to me although it does have to get some serious advertising space to knock ipod off the top spot.

It doesnt stand a chance to "kill" the iPod

It doesnt stand a chance to "kill" the iPod

Why? On paper it should...

My thought is that Apple marketing, and marketing alone will not allow this to gain the market share it deserves. I hate seeing inferior products win over :(

It doesnt stand a chance to "kill" the iPod

I don't think it will succeed either...

It does surprise me though that now Apple is slowly moving to color displays Sony decided to stick to B/W (battery life was probably the reason). Also it doesn't do "photos" which seems important nowadays. It lacks many of the features Apple has managed to introduce lately. People will not buy a player for batterylife alone.

Twenty years ago people used the same reasoning (features, functionality, user benefit) to suggest that the Mac would kill off DOS.

The shoe's on the other foot now, as regards where Apple is in this picture.

Didn't happen then - or since, in that space.

Won't happen now in this one, either.

I wish it would (or at least shut up their owners), but Sony has given this thing an Achilles' heel: Sonic Stage. Until it can sync with iTunes/Music Match/Windows Media 10 or support generic drag/drop, people will HATE it.

Sony does not stand a chance in killing off the Ipod. Granted the hardware is better but the software is what is killing them Itunes and ITMS simply kicks Sonicstages ... from a user friendly standpoint. Nost people simply don't want to figure out how to use non-intuitive software. Sony may hope to take some of Ipods market share but no way in heck will they kill off the giant.

They need to also think about getting rid of those numbers and letters when marketing the player. Apple keeps it simple it is either Ipod, Ipod Photo, ipod mini or ipod shuffle. the divde them into subcategories by using the term "generation". Sony is NW- 1234, NW- 5678, NW- 94750847499. Sort of difficult to tell the differences between each by the numbers alone.

Also u can't beat that Apple marketing machine and word of mouth advertising.

Can you say "Betamax"?

Sony does not stand a chance in killing off the Ipod. Granted the hardware is better but the software is what is killing them Itunes and ITMS simply kicks Sonicstages ... from a user friendly standpoint. Nost people simply don't want to figure out how to use non-intuitive software. Sony may hope to take some of Ipods market share but no way in heck will they kill off the giant.

They need to also think about getting rid of those numbers and letters when marketing the player. Apple keeps it simple it is either Ipod, Ipod Photo, ipod mini or ipod shuffle. the divde them into subcategories by using the term "generation". Sony is NW- 1234, NW- 5678, NW- 94750847499. Sort of difficult to tell the differences between each by the numbers alone.

Also u can't beat that Apple marketing machine and word of mouth advertising.


Very good point.

Sony is doomed. They haven't managed any kind of innovation in years.

People don't buy the iPod because it's the best. How ironic!

Very good point.

Sony is doomed. They haven't managed any kind of innovation in years.

Sony is screwed because they are both a device company and a media company. They are a house divided against themselves because of the way that media/content companies are convinced that anything more advanced than the wax cylinder is going to bring doom, death and destruction to their business.

They will not unseat the iPod or anything else until they as a whole get the clue that the content must serve the devices and not the other way around.

I haven't bought anything from Sony in years because I'm tired of dealing with expensive crippled shiny crap that won't even work with different versions of Windows, let alone OS X or Linux.

The most important feature of the iPod is that it just works. It doesn't need to be rebooted 3 or 4 times a day, it doesn't complain about driver mismatches and it doesn't treat you like a thief. It just works.

The most important feature of the iPod is that it just works. It doesn't need to be rebooted 3 or 4 times a day, it doesn't complain about driver mismatches and it doesn't treat you like a thief. It just works.

Don't really agree with this either. Many instances of ipods being very very flakey, the success of the ipod lies in a few things IMHO:

1) Design design design. No matter how many features you put in a device, unless it appeals to people it will not sell

2) Marketing; Needless to say that Apple is king of this

3) Right time, right place, right brand. They were the first with a decent HDD player, their timing was absolutely perfect

4) The player is not bad, it ain't "amazing", but for 95% of the population it does exactly what they need

5) Accessories; Apple has been VERY fortunate that the accessory makers for their desktop/laptop line have been so active, even before the ipod was such a hit these manufacturers were lining up to make innovative add-ons. The ipod was and remains the only device with such a loyal following of respected manufacturers.

As you see, Sony fails in 4 out of 5. Their marketing STINKS, their player is not a marvel of design (in fact it looks extremely bland to me), it is not as feature full as some of the upper ipods and Sony has a poor reputation when it comes to accessories. They are usually expensive and hard to find.

As I said, Sony is doomed.

OT: would the Nokia N91 be the iPod killer instead?

The real strength of the IPOD is its software and ease of use. There are some PC configurations where this isnt true. But in the case of anyone with a Mac and many if not most PCs, the software is really easy to use. Someone my wife knows (a programmer) got an IPOD recently. They had lots of issues with the software on their PC. My wife showed them how it worked on a Mac and they went out and bought an iBook. Now they love it. I have a DellPod with the software installed on a Dell. And an IPOD with the software on a Mac. The difference is enormous and the IPOD is a clear winner.

So to a great extent I agree with the "it just works" comment. There are some PCs that due to one or another conflict wont work with an IPOD it seems. But on the ones that work it is seamless and easy. That is why they are so successful in my opinion. Ive had mp3 players since the first Rio. IPOD was the first where the software was easy to use and you really didnt have to think about it.

The real strength of the IPOD is its software and ease of use. There are some PC configurations where this isnt true. But in the case of anyone with a Mac and many if not most PCs, the software is really easy to use. Someone my wife knows (a programmer) got an IPOD recently. They had lots of issues with the software on their PC. My wife showed them how it worked on a Mac and they went out and bought an iBook. Now they love it. I have a DellPod with the software installed on a Dell. And an IPOD with the software on a Mac. The difference is enormous and the IPOD is a clear winner.

So to a great extent I agree with the "it just works" comment. There are some PCs that due to one or another conflict wont work with an IPOD it seems. But on the ones that work it is seamless and easy. That is why they are so successful in my opinion. Ive had mp3 players since the first Rio. IPOD was the first where the software was easy to use and you really didnt have to think about it.


I agree with that. My wife and I have had real hassles getting itunes to do what we want, it is not very intuitive, has some real flaws, all on a PC of course. Some other applications like the one for my Rio Karma were far easier to use.

A review: An ipod killer IT IS NOT.

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/portable-media/sony/index.php#gizmodo-japan-sony-walkman-nwhd5-102968

OT: would the Nokia N91 be the iPod killer instead?


no it will not kill ipod. the problem is, if you hear music your mobile phone is loosing power. so you can hear 2h music and than your battery is getting low.

that is a big problem, you will not be reachable if you mobile is power off.

i have the p910 and i use the mp3 function normally in airplane or in train etc. but it is no way a ipod killer.

the thing about ipod is, you just have to plug your usb cable and itunes will update the ipod. that is the win of ipod.


the software is one of the best, easy to use. if i organize my music in itunes , and i buy a sony, i can not sync the software with my mp3player.

So the reason for the strong ipod are:


- good software
- easy sync
- best design

i was thinking of getting a panasonic sdcard player but i will again get a ipod mini. 16h is not that much, but is enough for me. and i dont have the hassle of needing to update the music via drag and drop.

So add the winning point of IPOD and itunes

ITS Convienient !

Sony with their weird ATRAC strategy will never have a chance in the mp3player market.

If i was chief of sony , i would stop the memorystick and atrac etc. nightmare. some easy things can bring them back on the right way, but they still are too unflexible.

dp

OT: would the Nokia N91 be the iPod killer instead?

No way.

A Phone will never succeed in capturing that market.

Well we have to see N91's software, but strong points are:
- Integrated phone & MP3 player (with MP3 player buttons)
- 4GB memory (unprecedented for a phone, AFAIK) - same as Mini iPod 4GB
- Bluetooth
- FM radio
- Camera and other usual Nokia stuff...

Music transfers might be able to be done with Bluetooth ^.

Well we have to see N91's software, but strong points are:
- Integrated phone & MP3 player (with MP3 player buttons)
- 4GB memory (unprecedented for a phone, AFAIK) - same as Mini iPod 4GB
- Bluetooth
- FM radio
- Camera and other usual Nokia stuff...

Music transfers might be able to be done with Bluetooth ^.

Still, not impressive sadly.

1) Phone and mp3 player means: high theft risk, shorter battery life.
2) 4Gb is outdated. The current best selling ipods are 6Gb, the market evolves, and by the time this thing hits shelves 4Gb won't be enough for many
3) Music transfers over Bluetooth? Yeah, at 721kpbs transferring a single song will take around 2 minutes. Filling the device will take 3 weeks at that rate. More interesting is that it has WiFi, THAT might make transfers easier.

I still don't beleive in these convergence devices, just as little as I beleive in the new Palm "Life Drive". I have had mp3 capable phones for many years now (since the very first Samsung that supported it), my current phone can take 2Gb of MP3 yet I still don't use it, and I don't see people walking down the streets using them either. Nokia will grab a small amount of the market of cell phone users with this, but I don't see people dropping their ipods for it.

Also, bear in mind that a phone like this will be very expensive, it will only be available at a low price for new subscribers or renewing subscribers, plus it probably won't even hit the US market at all.

1) Phone and mp3 player means: high theft risk, shorter battery life.
2) 4Gb is outdated. The current best selling ipods are 6Gb, the market evolves, and by the time this thing hits shelves 4Gb won't be enough for many
3) Music transfers over Bluetooth? Yeah, at 721kpbs transferring a single song will take around 2 minutes. Filling the device will take 3 weeks at that rate. More interesting is that it has WiFi, THAT might make transfers easier.


You made quiet strong points here. Maybe N91 is not such a good idea after all.
Didn't realize Bluetooth is that slow. 721kbps: doesn't this mean close to 1 MB per second? 2 MB music files should take 3 seconds, no? :confused:

Okay... just tried transferring a music file between my two phones via Bluetooth.
Definitely not 2-3 seconds. More like forever. :p

You made quiet strong points here. Maybe N91 is not such a good idea after all.
Didn't realize Bluetooth is that slow. 721kbps: doesn't this mean close to 1 MB per second? 2 MB music files should take 3 seconds, no? :confused:

That speed is the theoretical maximum for Bluetooth, reallife speeds, especially on file transfers and OBEX are more around 400kbps. MP3 Files are around 4Mb (BITES, not BITS) so a transfer of those would take around 80 seconds, give or take.

Filling a 4Gb drive with these would take around 22.2 hours :D

When will anti Ipod folks give up the battery life issue? come on far too many are out there now older than 18 months and still running FINE on the original battery. Its the SAME battery you have in your cell phone, cordless home phone etc and folks are not going ape crap.

This is not going to kill the Ipod. Some folks just don't like Ipods (for whatever reason) and grab at straws to HOPE to see it fail.

When will anti Ipod folks give up the battery life issue? come on far too many are out there now older than 18 months and still running FINE on the original battery. Its the SAME battery you have in your cell phone, cordless home phone etc and folks are not going ape crap.

This is not going to kill the Ipod. Some folks just don't like Ipods (for whatever reason) and grab at straws to HOPE to see it fail.

The ipod battery thing is not an "issue". It is real life problems with real peoples expensive devices. Apple royally screwed up the whole issue, and then went on to receive some pretty bad PR for it. The current ipods do get much better battery life, but it took them 4 years to figure that out.

It is certainly NOT the same battery as in my cell phone and home phone, as I can take off a cover and replace those every year if I need to (and I usually do). With my ipod I was screwed, and Apple had absolutely no intention of helping me out. Keep in mind that it wasn't till last year that Apple finally chnaged their battery replacment policy and lowered their prices.

The whole "ipod killer" name is something that doesn't mean it is out there to take over the world from Apple, it means that it might, just might be a device that could finally compete with Apple. Nobody wants Apple to fail.

BTW, what is it with those desperate Apple nuts that take every chance they get to defend their beloved Apple? :D

When will anti Ipod folks give up the battery life issue? come on far too many are out there now older than 18 months and still running FINE on the original battery

Not the time before the battery needs replacing just the time it lasts on one charge. I thought as a group of flyers we'd appreciate that battery life (or ability to replace batteries) is an important deciding factor when buying a portable player. I'm no FF by any means and was tempted by ipod when I was looking at getting an mp3 player but the poor battery life swayed me against

BTW, what is it with those desperate Apple nuts that take every chance they get to defend their beloved Apple?

:D I was also advised by a member of Flyertalk not to get an ipod because I'd become one of those obsessive Apple defending types. Alas I am not part of the white earphone brigade!

That speed is the theoretical maximum for Bluetooth, reallife speeds, especially on file transfers and OBEX are more around 400kbps. MP3 Files are around 4Mb (BITES, not BITS) so a transfer of those would take around 80 seconds, give or take.

Filling a 4Gb drive with these would take around 22.2 hours :D

I think the BT is for headphones, not for file transfers.

BTW, what is it with those desperate Apple nuts that take every chance they get to defend their beloved Apple? :D

I've met these really cool people. They've changed my life. Why don't you come to one of our iMeetings and drink some iKoolaid?

The ipod battery thing is not an "issue". It is real life problems with real peoples expensive devices. Apple royally screwed up the whole issue, and then went on to receive some pretty bad PR for it. The current ipods do get much better battery life, but it took them 4 years to figure that out.

It is certainly NOT the same battery as in my cell phone and home phone, as I can take off a cover and replace those every year if I need to (and I usually do). With my ipod I was screwed, and Apple had absolutely no intention of helping me out. Keep in mind that it wasn't till last year that Apple finally chnaged their battery replacment policy and lowered their prices.


Sure you can change the battery yourself, if you've got some measure of mechanical capability:

http://www.ipodbattery.com/slimipodinstall.htm.

That's not hard. Not as easy as replacing a cellphone battery, but I'd be willing to wager it'd pass the "Mom" test or the "wife" test.

My 3G 10GB iPod is coming up on 2 years old next month, and I'm just now starting to see a loss in charge capacity, so I'll be doing this replacement.

To put the battery life of some of these players in FF perspective....

Last week I flew LHR-IAD and listened to my IPOD mini, one of the first generation ones with the shorter battery life, for almost the whole flight with time left over.

On my Dell I can do JFK-SFO-PVG with leftover.

To put the battery life of some of these players in FF perspective....

Last week I flew LHR-IAD and listened to my IPOD mini, one of the first generation ones with the shorter battery life, for almost the whole flight with time left over.

On my Dell I can do JFK-SFO-PVG with leftover.

Of course, the other thing you can do is make a hacked battery pack. 8-cell holder at RadioSHack, 8 2200 mAh NiMH AA cells, old firewire cable, little bit of solder and heat-shrink. With a voltage regulator to get it down to 5V, you could add a USB port and have a portable power source for other small electronics, too, ie cellphone, portable videogame system, etc. (probably not a portable DVD, though). I've never run it that long, but the iPod's internal LiIon cell has about 2.2 Watt-hours of power. Given that it would conservatively give me 7 hours on a charge, that's 317 mW/hr consumption. My 8 cell pack has 20 Watt-hours. If that wouldn't make it ORD-LAX-SYD-SIN-LHR-ORD, I'd be surprised. :)


I think you can buy things like this built with LiIon cells - they're designed for pro photographers (and priced accordingly), but a home-brew system can work. If you pack it up in a more professional-looking case (Fry's sells extruded aluminum ones pretty cheaply) as opposed to say an Altoids tin, the Thousands Standing Around ;) won't see it as a threat device...

You are right, you can use a battery boost. I bought one on ebay for about $16 that was a very nicely made one. I runs on 4 rechargeable AAs. I also have a tip for my IPOD that runs from the peripheral charger on my IGO. I dont even carry the IPOD auxillary battery pack any more. I carry the IPOD, the DellPod and my IGO.