MilesBuzz! - Buying R/T Flying 1-Way

What are the rules on R/T buying and one way flying ...
I am flying my daughter to stay with her grandparents over the summer and they are driving her back. The one way ticket for her costs over double the price of my R/T ticket (which makes zero sense). I was thinking just buying her a R/T and using one-way.

It will be OK as long as they can not catch you - so I would not give them my FF number so they can cancel all my miles!

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Viele Grüße

Oliver

I have never had any difficulty w/ this whatsoever.. I usually call the day of the return flight and make them aware that something has come up and I won't be able to fly home but have to drive instead - or in this case, something has come up and your daughter will need to travel by car on her return trip. Depending on the fare, you won't get a credit, but you can frequently rebook that leg (for a change fee) should you expect to be in the reverse situation in a reasonable timeframe.

you can put the FFP in.

there should not be a problem at all.
if they try to catch you, the cost is a lot higher than what they get.
and you can always make uo a good reason of not being able to fly the return segment, such as not feeling well physically, or psychologically, etc

just be polite and call to cancel the return booking ;-)

I have done this before and simply called the airline to cancel the return portion. The airline then gets the opportunity to resell the seat. If this is a frequent occurence and the airline recognizes a pattern of one way trips on cheap return tickets, there could be a problem

This falls into the same area as back to backs. You are buying/using a ticket to get around a higher fare.

There is currently no way the airlines can stop you from doing this so you will have no problems. Continental has started to make noises that they will be charging travel agents the difference (between the o/w and return fare) if passengers do no complete the trip. I am not sure how they would ever enforce this but then again it is Continental.

I think the discussion is hypothetical. I know at least two large travel agencies who do it all the time and nothing happens. If you play a low profile, do not use the same routing repeatedly, I do not think the airlines will catch you or penalise you.

I would exercise some caution using this technique on Delta, as their Revenue Protection Unit tends to get a bit zealous sometimes about the enforcement of the rules.

I've used this technique on other airlines frequently without problems. Your mileage may vary....

The term for this is called Throw away ticketing and is technically against the rules as you are using it to circumvent a higher one-way fare. Don't know what the penalties are if you are caught. Probably pay the difference between what you paid and what the one way fare was. However it is hard to enforce. Use your own judgement as to whether or not you want to do it.

Originally posted by RHines81:
What are the rules on R/T buying and one way flying ...


You can check each airline's exact rules for a variety of situations including this one at http://www.onetravel.com/advisor/AR_rules_Menu.cfm?

I don't see how they could charge you any more if you were caught. Hell, just to cover yourself call and say you can't use it, you will hold on to it for the future, and they will probably say it's good for a year, the change fee applies dot dot dot.

They have no legitimate way to collect the difference in funds from you. While they could charge it to your credit card, they certainly don't have the authorization to and you could easily dispute that one. If you purchase through a travel agent they could go after the agent, but besides saying don't do it again, I can't se ethem going after an individual.

If you bought the ticket on a prepaid credit card, they couldn't even nab you with that.

Originally posted by drbala:
I think the discussion is hypothetical. I know at least two large travel agencies who do it all the time and nothing happens. If you play a low profile, do not use the same routing repeatedly, I do not think the airlines will catch you or penalise you.

I have done this before, it is no big deal--who are they to tell you to fly!?

I think it's very strange that one ways usually cost a lot more...

If you don't care which airline you fly, then check the conditions of carriage (see link in the post by cblaisd above) for one which doesn't ban throw-away ticketing.

If you do care which airline you fly (favorite miles program, perhaps), then pay cash for the throw-away ticket instead of using a credit card and buy it from the airline's ticket office instead of a travel agent. The odds that the airline would charge you back are low, and next-to-nil if it doesn't have a credit card number available to charge the extra cost to.

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"If you want to win the game, write the rules."

Originally posted by aqueouschief:
I have done this before, it is no big deal--who are they to tell you to fly!?

I think it's very strange that one ways usually cost a lot more...

One ways cost more than Saturday night stay roundtrip because two one ways without staying over Saturday equates to a midweek roundtrip. A midweek roundtrip prices a lot more than a Saturday night stay roundtrip in order to gouge the business traveller.

Originally posted by RHines81:
What are the rules on R/T buying and one way flying ...
I am flying my daughter to stay with her grandparents over the summer and they are driving her back. The one way ticket for her costs over double the price of my R/T ticket (which makes zero sense). I was thinking just buying her a R/T and using one-way.

Don't worry about it. Go ahead and do it. It's called "throw-away ticketing" and is extremely common.

It's not as if they're going to force her to fly the route back or anything. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif They certainly can't charge you the difference. You're in the better position.

I also think you are worrying too much. I did this when I went to NY to move my father (by driving)to Chicago. I made the return far in advance and just didn't use it. I think these kinds of things happen legitimately all the time. If you can't return the day of a non-refundable ticket, you often have to find another way to get home if you don't want to pay the exhorbitant one way fares. Just do it, and don't worry! (I got my miles and on line booking bonus for the one way)

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DtG

I find it interesting that most people have no problems "breaking" airlines rules in regards to throw away ticketing but have major ethical problems when it comes to buying/selling frequent flyer mileage awards.

Hi I think everybody has a bit of Robin Hood lurking in their hearts. When the airlines fleece you (Ahem when the IRS fleeces you ) you dont mind striking back http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Originally posted by Tango:
I find it interesting that most people have no problems "breaking" airlines rules in regards to throw away ticketing but have major ethical problems when it comes to buying/selling frequent flyer mileage awards.

Depends on the airline. UA, for example, has nothing in their rules regarding throw-away ticketing.

HTH, YMMV

Originally posted by Tango:
I find it interesting that most people have no problems "breaking" airlines rules in regards to throw away ticketing but have major ethical problems when it comes to buying/selling frequent flyer mileage awards.

I think it has less to do with the ethical implications than it does with the possibility of being caught and the punishment associated with being caught.

I imagine most flyers would be willing to sell or barter their miles on occasion if it were either legal or if there was a slim penalty if caught.

Back to the original discussion...I wouldn't worry, I've done it before with having my FF number in there without any problem.

The covert, sneaky (and overkill) way of doing it if there is a concern, book the ticket with first ititial and last name only, pay cash and leave out the FF number...You lose the benefit of having protection from you CC company, but if you're on a major carrier, there's not a lot to worry about.

Originally posted by Tango:
I find it interesting that most people have no problems "breaking" airlines rules in regards to throw away ticketing but have major ethical problems when it comes to buying/selling frequent flyer mileage awards.

Because air fare rules are illogical but mileage award rules are logical.

MatthewClement

I beg to differ with you. If you read the fare rules on United round trip tickets there is a little thing listed called maximum stay It states you must commence your return by a certain time period. If you look at the fare rules on a one-way ticket it does not have this. So by buying a round trip ticket and throwing away the return, as soon as the time period expires for commencing the return you have technically violated the terms of the fare.

Now whether UA can or will go after you is another story. But if they do, be prepared to pay as buying the ticket is a contract and if you throw away the return you have violated the terms of the contract.

I'm not saying do or don't use the practice of throw away ticketing, I am just showing the rules.

MBS PREMEXEC: Paying cash for your ticket will increase your profile into high risk. Cash sales are very uncommon and airlines profile these types of tickets becuase people trying to hide something/doing something illegal tend to pay only in cash.

JS: Everythig about the airlines is illogical. If the cost of cheapest/business/first class tickets from the USA to Europe run on average $500/$6000/$9000 then you would think award tickets would follow the same percentages. Currently award redemptions are 40000 or 60000/90000/120000. This is on a very different scale then what the airlines charge you for these tickets.

The only reason airlines have not gone after people on throwaways (Continental has made some comments that they might) is becuase they have not made it a priority.

When the airlines have exhausted other ways to enhance revenue, they will work on ways to go after throwaway ticketing.

We had RT tickets STC-MSP-ATL-AMS-MAD- AMS-DTW-MSP-STC. The layover on the return MSP-STC was about 5 hours so we decided to rent a car on arrival and just drive to STC in about one hour. Upon arrival in DTW we informed NW that we wanted to pick up our bags in MSP and cancel the last leg. No problem, no charge, no questions. I would just call and cancel the return.

Esteban

Originally posted by Baze:

I beg to differ with you. If you read the fare rules on United round trip tickets there is a little thing listed called maximum stay It states you must commence your return by a certain time period. If you look at the fare rules on a one-way ticket it does not have this. So by buying a round trip ticket and throwing away the return, as soon as the time period expires for commencing the return you have technically violated the terms of the fare.



Baze, my source for this info was http://www.onetravel.com/advisor/AR_rules_Menu.cfm who say:

Purchasing a round trip excursion fare ticket and traveling only one way is called "throwaway" ticketing and United Airlines does not prohibit "throwaway" ticketing.

I do expect to see this rule change in the near future, since American, Continental, Delta, TWA and US Airways do prohibit "throwaway"ticketing. At the present time, however, United Airlines' Domestic General Rules Tariff DGR-1 does not address the issue of "throwaway" ticketing.

if you want to be sure they wont try and chrage you the fare difference pay cash for the ticket. they could send you a bill but im pretty sure you'd know what to do with that http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

since you are not going to be using the return segment they won't have an opportunity to make a fuss about it unless they decide to call you and by then it'll be a little too late anyways.

Originally posted by Baze:
MatthewClement

I beg to differ with you. If you read the fare rules on United round trip tickets there is a little thing listed called maximum stay It states you must commence your return by a certain time period. If you look at the fare rules on a one-way ticket it does not have this. So by buying a round trip ticket and throwing away the return, as soon as the time period expires for commencing the return you have technically violated the terms of the fare.

Now whether UA can or will go after you is another story. But if they do, be prepared to pay as buying the ticket is a contract and if you throw away the return you have violated the terms of the contract.

I'm not saying do or don't use the practice of throw away ticketing, I am just showing the rules.

I don't think the maximum stay provision is dispositive. First, naturally a roundtrip ticket would have restrictions that govern terms of the return segment. I would interpret such language as discussing how the return may be used rather than mandating someone take the return flight. The more straightforward way would be for the airline to prohibit it explicitly, as other airline have done. It is difficult to believe that this issue hasn't been considered by UA. If they wanted to say no, I would expect they would have said no.

Please keep in mind that we are talking about an industry that can get away with things that very few other companies can. A good example is how most of the airlines advertise their airfare sales---they only list the one way portion and in the fine print state you must buy a round-trip.

Can you imagine if Ford were to advertise a Ford Explorer for $6000*

*based upon a passenger capacity of 4 people. This price is per person.

GE advertising a large refrigerator for $200.00*

*Freezer is extra.

Going into Mcdonalds to buy the advertised extra value meal for $3.99. When you pay for the meal, you are charged a 10% concession fee, 3% food inspection fee, $1 waste disposal fee, $1 fee if you do not bus your own table and 3 cents a minute for every minute you stay beyond 30 minutes. On top of all of this, if you do not eat all of your happy meal they will charge you the difference between the ala cart prices and the value meal price.

I walked into a McDonald's about a year ago, wanting to buy a quarter-pounder with cheese. Price, $1.99. However, McDonald's had a promo at the time: "Buy 1 McRib, get any second sandwich free." Price, $1.79.

Because McRibs are the nastiest things ever created in the history of mankind (IMHO), I asked for "1 McRib and 1 Quarter-Pounder with cheese, hold the McRib." The assistant manager - who probably worked nights in Delta's RPU - absolutely refused to complete the order unless I accepted the McRib. Otherwise, he said, I would be effectively taking a discount I wasn't entitled to.

Although I was tempted to "accidently" leave the McRib on the counter, I grudgingly took it and disposed of it discreetly (none of my friends would touch the thing, either).

Originally posted by rmccamy:

Because McRibs are the nastiest things ever created in the history of mankind (IMHO), I asked for "1 McRib and 1 Quarter-Pounder with cheese, hold the McRib." The assistant manager - who probably worked nights in Delta's RPU - absolutely refused to complete the order unless I accepted the McRib. Otherwise, he said, I would be effectively taking a discount I wasn't entitled to.


Reminds me of the scene in the Michael Douglas film "Falling Down"

"Haven't you heard the expression 'the customer is always right?'"

"I'm sorry sir, that's not our policy here..."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Originally posted by Tango:
I find it interesting that most people have no problems "breaking" airlines rules in regards to throw away ticketing but have major ethical problems when it comes to buying/selling frequent flyer mileage awards.

Well, not all airlines prohibit throwaway ticketing, and I suspect even those that do don't really care about it. What they do care about is any possible way someone could manipulate their systems to get around the Saturday night stay restrictions. If half of the ticket is really thrown away, what do they care (they will oversell the flight anyway) -- they just don't want it returning down the line as a back-to-back. For example, when the NW WorldPerks rep who did the chat here was asked about why there isn't a one-way award ticket, his response was simply, "blah, blah, protect the value of our business product."

I think that discretion is the key here. If you are just doing it once, it is highly unlikely that it would be even noticed. How many non-shows come from missed connections, or any other myriad reasons. It happens across the North Atlantic all the time. If the system is as illogical to charge more for a service when used once, then if used twice, then it is wide open for abuse. If you made a habit of it they would track you through your mileage number, otherwise I assure you I have never been asked. Imagine the millions of tickets and trasactions that would have to be reviewed for one item, when it becomes a pattern of behaviour, then that is another matter.

i dont believe ua has a rule against throw away ticketing. the second half is good for at least a year.

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f

Lots of people have done it. Going through the rules and tariffs is a waste of time. If this is a one time deal, there is no worry.

I do not agree about calling the airline. They will put a note in your record and then would have plenty of documentation to bill you or take any action. Reality is they will not, unless you do this on a regular basis.

What nobody has mentioned yet is that if ever asked, you can just tell them you took the flight. They must have a problem with your records. In fact, Mr. Kiss My - - - - Airline Employee, you owe me miles for that flight. Please correct your records.

They are not about to even attempt to prove you never took the flight.

Currently the airlines have not made this an issue. If they do decide to make this an issue they will go after you. It does not take much of a computer program to track down no-shows. If you paid by credit card (most people do), they would charge you the difference. They currently do this on other issues---I had my credit card charged (an oversight on their part) and it took forever to get it credited back. The credit card companies make serious money off airline ticket sales and they tend to protect their best customers.

Please do not read this post the wrong way. I see no problem currently to buy a round-trip and only use it one-way. The airlines are not yet interested enough to go after this lost revenue.

When the airlines decide it is worth their time to go after this, then I would advise not doing this.

Back to Backs were very popular a few years back until the airlines cracked down on the practice. I see this as no different.

NoStress: Reminds me of a UA experience I had a couple of years back, only the reverse is what happened. (Sorry I'm once again drifting 10 or 15 percent off topic.)

I flew a SAT-DEN-SFO-DEN-SAT roundtrip. Upon receiving my mileage statement, I realized that the SFO-DEN segment didn't credit, but everything else did. After calling two or three times to insist that I was on the flight and should get credit, the miles still never posted. I even went to a CTO for help, but when they call Mileage Plus, they were placed on hold. The CTO lady immediately hung up, and simply applied the value of the segment towards my next ticket (and kindly waived the change fee). Although she knew I really did the segment, she let the system work in my favor for once.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

re: Back to Backs. Yes, the airlines see this as illegal, and it is very easy to track.

An easy way around this if your are traveling heavy between two cities is to use one airline for one ticket and another airline for the other. No way to track that one.

Drawbacks?
1) You may not build enough miles on either one to reach the top leve.
2) You might go crazy trying to remember which airline it is you are supposed to fly THIS TIME!

NoStressHere, Lot’s of my colleagues have bought a one way ticket to city X and then bought RT between YX (yielding a Saturday night stay) for the many trips to follow. This is highly frowned upon by our most favorite air carriers, but hey; we have to work within a budget too.

Thanks for all of the response.
cblaisd, your link was very helpful. I checked NWA and they have no rules against throw away ticketing. Thanks.

Originally posted by cblaisd:
You can check each airline's exact rules for a variety of situations including this one at http://www.onetravel.com/advisor/AR_rules_Menu.cfm?

Originally posted by RHines81:
Thanks for all of the response.
cblaisd, your link was very helpful. I checked NWA and they have no rules against throw away ticketing. Thanks.



Even if an airline has such a rule, it is still not clear such a rule is legal.

Some airlines even recommend you to buy crossover tickets (LH did so with me).

Just when I think I understand all the terms, somebody comes up with "Crossover Ticket"

What is that?

Legal, tariffs, rules, etc. They do not have to specifically say you can do this (throw away).

When you buy a ticket to fly outbound on Tuesday and return on the following Monday, you have entered into a contract. They will fly you on the specific days, you will pay $xx. You change your side of the deal, and they could 'technically' rework the 'contract'.

Do they do it? Not really. Not worth the hassle. Unless you are a regular at it. Then they will work you over. The word is, they run you through the Denver baggage system a few times until you yell Uncle.

Originally posted by Dudemon:
NoStressHere, Lot’s of my colleagues have bought a one way ticket to city X and then bought RT between YX (yielding a Saturday night stay) for the many trips to follow. This is highly frowned upon by our most favorite air carriers, but hey; we have to work within a budget too.

That's the way I've always bought tickets. Start with a one-way, then buy R/T's, then another one-way when you are done working in city Y.

I don't think the airlines frown on this; in fact, their rules dictate that you use this method. Anything else (buying the first and last segments as roundtrips, using throwaways, etc.) would be considered against their rules. My company's travel agent frequently reminds us that the first and last segments to a recurring out-of-town assignment MUST be one-way tickets, or else technically, the rules are violated.

I suppose you could first- and last-segment as a cheap RT on a separate airline from the rest of your tickets. That assumes that there IS another airline to pick, and that you know the dates ahead of time. Unforunately, I've never had this luxury.

Here is something cool.
Fly coach to Las Vegas, and stay in ultra first class accomodations. I saw an ad for the Las Vegas High Roller Sweepstakes, and I checked it out. People book their trips through travel agents and can win one of eight upgrades to high roller status. Stay in big suites, see the best shows, eat in the finest restaurants, all for free. I verified it at vegas.yahoo.com.

Originally posted by Tango:
Going into Mcdonalds to buy the advertised extra value meal for $3.99. When you pay for the meal, you are charged a 10% concession fee, 3% food inspection fee, $1 waste disposal fee, $1 fee if you do not bus your own table and 3 cents a minute for every minute you stay beyond 30 minutes. On top of all of this, if you do not eat all of your happy meal they will charge you the difference between the ala cart prices and the value meal price.

You left out the 79-cent (75c plus 4c tax) energy surcharge http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Follow this link for a timely story:

http://sns.chicagotribune.com/travel/sns-oneway-fly.story

Originally posted by NoStressHere:

Just when I think I understand all the terms, somebody comes up with "Crossover Ticket"

What is that?

From the Travel Agent Dictionary http://www.hometravelagency.com/dictionary/index.html

"Cross-border ticketing: Writing a ticket in such a way that it appears that the travel commences in a different country than is actually the case. Used to take advantage of lower fare structures."

I'm not sure if this is exactly what is being discussed above, but it sounds close.

I am having an opposite situation here.
Is it OK to throw-away the first segment and just to fly the second half.

I have booked my family to Alaska cruise.
We fly from San Francisco to Vancouver. After the cruise than from Vancouver we will drive to Seattle then flay back to San Francisco from Seattle.
Now my sister changes her mind, she wants just meet us at Vancouver(She is flying from Taipei), then come back to San Francisco with us. We are booked on Alaska airlines.
Would that be a problem? Or should I change her ticket?

Thanks in advance.



[This message has been edited by iepiat (edited 05-20-2001).]

You can not throw away the first half. If you fail to show up and fly the first segment, they will cancel the whole thing. Then when you show up for the second segment, they just laugh. Okay, maybe they don't laugh in your face, but they do snicker.

It works on the return part because you never show up at the airport. They cancel a flight that you never plan to take. So you don't care.

But do not even think of trying it on the first half. Even with a full fare ticket. You will be erased in a heartbeat.

Originally posted by blairvanhorn:
From the Travel Agent Dictionary http://www.hometravelagency.com/dictionary/index.html

"Cross-border ticketing: Writing a ticket in such a way that it appears that the travel commences in a different country than is actually the case. Used to take advantage of lower fare structures."

I'm not sure if this is exactly what is being discussed above, but it sounds close.


What I meant is the following, one needs 1 or even better 2 RTs between two cities, so you book.
a-b day 1 b-a day 8 for instance
b-a day 1 a-b day 8 again.
Gives you 2 same day RT for Saturday night cost.

Originally posted by peter42:
What I meant is the following, one needs 1 or even better 2 RTs between two cities, so you book.
a-b day 1 b-a day 8 for instance
b-a day 1 a-b day 8 again.
Gives you 2 same day RT for Saturday night cost.



That is back-to-back ticketing. It is still back-to-back whether or not you fly all segments, although not flying the return portions will make it a little easier for the airline to find you, since you land in their "no show" list.

Coming back home before Saturday night is what violates the Saturday night stay requirement.