America West FlightFund (Discontinued Program) - WSJ Report Merger in Advanced Talks With USAir--The Skinny




abeflyer
Apr 19, 05, 7:24 pm
US Airways Talks
To America West
About a Merger

Combination Would Rival
Southwest in Size and Reach;
A New Consolidation Wave?
By SUSAN CAREY and MELANIE TROTTMAN
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
April 20, 2005

US Airways and America West Airlines are in advanced merger talks to create a national low-cost airline rivaling discount king Southwest Airlines in size, say people familiar with the matter.

A deal hasn't been completed, and some obstacles remain, these people caution. With US Airways Group Inc. in Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, there are extra complications. A deal would need approval from a host of parties, including the bankruptcy judge; US Airways creditors, including its largest, General Electric Co.; America West shareholders; unions; and the federal government.

But if a deal comes together, it could prove the first big step in a long-awaited consolidation of the embattled airline industry, in which companies are struggling with high oil prices, too many seats, pension costs and brutal ticket-price wars. Though most big airlines currently lack the cash to do deals and share prices are depressed, some industry analysts believe hedge funds and private equity firms eventually will jump in to force restructuring, especially if more big carriers file for Chapter 11.

Together, US Airways, the nation's seventh-largest carrier, and America West, which is No 8, would form an airline that would overtake Southwest as the sixth-largest, based on 2004 traffic statistics. With America West's hubs in Phoenix and Las Vegas and US Airways' in Philadelphia and Charlotte, N.C., the bulked-up discounter would have the distinction of offering low fares on an integrated hub-and-spoke network that would offer many more choices of routings.

That would contrast with other hub-and-spoke airlines, which have much higher costs -- both US Airways and America West have slashed expenses in recent years -- and could prod some airlines toward embracing a low-cost model. It also would contrast with the far more profitable Southwest, which is a point-to-point budget airline that serves heavily traveled routes.

US Airways, already cutting back on some routes, has been under assault by Southwest in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and other discounters in Charlotte, Washington and Boston. A merger would allow it to expand its stunted route network and grow to the West, where it offers very few flights. For its part, America West is hemmed in by Southwest at its hubs in Phoenix and Las Vegas, and needs places outside its Western U.S. territory to grow and use new airplanes it has on order.

The US Airways-America West talks are known as "Project Barbell" because US Airways is big on the East Coast and America West on the West Coast, with a modest number of transcontinental flights between them, said people close to the matter.

One person familiar with the matter said US Airways has talked to several other airlines over the past two years about a potential merger. But the discussions with America West Holdings Corp., the airline's parent company, have gained momentum recently. In recent days, it had been expected that the two airlines could announce an agreement in principle to merge as soon as next week, but that timetable is in question.

If an agreement is reached, the initial plan would be to fly under the "US Airways" brand immediately but to keep the operations separate for a time, linking the network through code-sharing, while integration of fleet and personnel is phased in.

Talks could still break down, and there are some wild cards. If a deal is struck, America West and potential new equity backers would play a role in shaping the reorganization plan that would allow US Airways to emerge from bankruptcy this year, said one knowledgeable person. Another possibility is that the bankruptcy judge overseeing US Airways could require a bidding process to determine if better offers could be had, said another knowledgeable person.

In addition, the two airlines' unions would have to agree to rules for merging their members. The federal government, which has extended loan guarantees to both airlines, would have to agree to restructure that debt and specifically have to approve a merger by America West because of the conditions of its loan. The Air Transportation Stabilization Board, a federal panel created after the 2001 terrorist attacks to help the industry, has a secured loan to US Airways with a balance of $700 million, and an unsecured loan with America West with a current balance of $300 million.

Even if a deal doesn't happen, US Airways, Arlington, Va., is positioned to emerge from bankruptcy as a stand-alone company later this year. The company filed for bankruptcy last year for the second time in as many years. It has managed to avoid liquidation, a fate it widely was expected to meet, and used the time in court protection to further lower its costs and revamp its operations to become more like a discount airline. Its models in the transformation have been America West and JetBlue Airways.

Last year, US Airways posted a net loss of $611 million on revenue of $7.1 billion. But the carrier recently has confounded doomsayers by lining up $250 million in financing from two regional airlines, one an affiliate of closely held Air Wisconsin Airlines Corp., the other Republic Airways Holdings Inc.

A few months ago, according to one person familiar with the matter, US Airways' big creditors began to worry that the carrier would be on shaky financial ground when it emerged, and encouraged the company to seek a partner. Certain of US Airways' key creditors -- including GE's airline financing and leasing arm -- are actively involved in the merger talks, according to people familiar with the matter. A GE spokesman declined to comment.

The merger scenario currently being discussed would require US Airways to find between $350 million and $500 million in total new funding, and possibly to arrange an additional $250 million in loans. US Airways is approaching a number of sources, including private equity firms, other regional airlines and its existing creditors. If it succeeds, a holding company created by the merger would give stock in the new company to America West shareholders, US Airways creditors and new equity investors, said one person familiar with the deal.

A merger could allow the two airlines to eliminate redundant equipment, gates and possibly personnel at their airport locations. They could rationalize some of their transcontinental flights. And because US Airways in bankruptcy can reject airplane leases, it effectively could "right-size" the combined airline's fleet by getting rid of more planes because it knows it will be able to take new planes on order to America West. But it isn't thought that the two would shrink by the same degree that an outright liquidation would take capacity out of the industry.

US Airways, which has been flying since the 1940s, would carry more built-in costs into a combination, in part because its work force is more senior than that of America West, which began flying in 1983. But its unions have made big sacrifices in the carrier's two visits to bankruptcy court, and all have lost their defined-benefit pension plans.

Being a big airplane lessor at both companies, GE probably would reduce its exposure by taking more planes back from US Airway under this scenario than it would if US Airways pursued a stand-alone strategy.

America West, based in Tempe, Ariz., dodged a bankruptcy court filing in late 2001 by winning a $429 million commercial loan backed by $380 million in federal guarantees. That unlocked more than $600 million in other financing and concessions from manufacturers, vendors, leasing firms and others. But the carrier could still be at risk.

It posted a net loss last year of $89.9 million on revenue of $2.34 billion, and some analysts believe that with fuel at current high prices, America West will face a liquidity squeeze later this year. It ended 2004 with $419 million of cash and in March made a $42.9 million semiannual payment on its own ATSB loan. The carrier owes another similar payment in September.

America West, which long has had low costs among traditional airlines, began to transition into a low-fare carrier in early 2002, when it slashed its highest business fares. The move boosted its market share and revenue, restoring profitability. But worsening industry conditions began taking a toll even on discounters. Recently, the company has begun marketing itself as a discount airline with amenities such as first class, assigned seats, airport clubs, in-flight entertainment and code-share relationships that allow its frequent fliers to redeem points on other airlines flying overseas.

These are some of the same amenities US Airways has retained even as it has slashed its expenses, cut its unionized workers' wages and benefits, and shrunk its operations. Southwest and JetBlue don't offer first class.

Doug Parker, America West's chief executive, has been extremely vocal about the need for industry consolidation and his interest in participating. Late last year, America West studied an offer to buy all of ATA Airlines, a discounter that had filed for bankruptcy-court protection, but in the end backed away because ATA's airplane leases were too costly. Southwest ultimately did a smaller deal with ATA, buying some of its gates at Chicago's Midway Airport and entering into a code-sharing relationship.


olympicnut
Apr 19, 05, 9:49 pm
So if this happens the America West name would disappear? That would make me really sad :( Mostly because I HATE US Airways for what they did to PSA. It's been nearly 20 years and yea I should probably get over it, but I still have a bitter taste in my mouth over that.

I'd rather see a completely new name come about than to have it all become US Airways.

GotCalcio4
Apr 19, 05, 10:56 pm
So if this happens the America West name would disappear? That would make me really sad :( Mostly because I HATE US Airways for what they did to PSA. It's been nearly 20 years and yea I should probably get over it, but I still have a bitter taste in my mouth over that.

I'd rather see a completely new name come about than to have it all become US Airways.


I agree with you regarding the PSA deal 20 years ago. US swallowed up PSA and never looked back. But, as people on the US board have pointed out, we have Doug Parker on the West Coast and he would never let something like the US/PSA deal ever happen again.

Although I too would be disappointed to see the HP brand disappear, I still am in favor of seeing US as the remaining brand only because to me, US Airways is a larger, more international-sounding name. America West creates images of a more regional-type airline.

Here are links to the pure facts that we should all be concerned about:

US Airways
http://usair.com/about/corporate/profile/factsheets/index.htm
http://usair.com/travel/maps/route/
http://usair.com/about/corporate/profile/history/company_history.htm
http://usair.com/about/aircraft/index.htm

America West
http://www.americawest.com/aboutawa/companyprofile/aa_factsheet.htm
http://www.americawest.com/aboutawa/companyprofile/aa_routemap.htm
http://www.americawest.com/aboutawa/companyprofile/aa_background.htm
http://www.americawest.com/aboutawa/companyprofile/aa_fleet.htm

Also compare:
http://www.americawest.com/flightfund/aboutprogram/ff_ffeliteprogram.htm
http://usair.com/dividendmiles/preferredlevels/


hp_fa
Apr 19, 05, 11:19 pm
The US Airways moniker is damaged goods and needs to go. Plus HP has far better livery.

olympicnut
Apr 19, 05, 11:31 pm
The US Airways moniker is damaged goods and needs to go. Plus HP has far better livery.


LOL!!! I agree!!! :D "Our planes are prettier" - lol.

Tanic
Apr 20, 05, 3:46 am
The US Airways moniker is damaged goods and needs to go. Plus HP has far better livery.

All of those black airplanes sitting simultaneously at T4 would absorb so much heat that Phoenix would become considerably cooler! :cool:

motnot
Apr 20, 05, 4:02 am
Certainly HP management is far smarter than me, but the way I see it, the two airlines would have to be run separately for a few years so a good chunk of the senior US employees could retire or be bought out.

That would also seemingly entail all growth being under the America West name -- with a full-on codeshare, it wouldn't matter -- at least until it the senior, beaten-down US workforce had been sufficiently shrunken to allow a merger without large displacement of HP workers.

aaupgrade
Apr 20, 05, 6:50 am
OK a few observations from an almost outsider. I have flown US a few times and HP not at all but am very familiar with their reputation. I also must add that the reason I have not flown HP is that I am on the right coast, not that I am indifferent.

I agree whole heartedly with those that prefer HP's name over US. As previously stated US is damaged goods and their F product sucks. US F is just wide seat Y. HP F product on the other hand is quite nice from what I have heard.

IMO, HP will be partnering with a sinking ship. At best a merger of these two will result in a cheapening of the HP product. Or what is more likely the merged entity will eventually be down the tubes.

This is being orchestrated by GE under the drug dealer concept of keeping your clients hooked so they can continue to pay you - at all costs. GE is out for GE, not HP or US.

Things would be better for HP if it waited for US to go belly up and HP could pick the assets it wanted at the BK fire sale and did not have to take on all of US baggage (literally). Under this scenario US' Baggage handlers, other employee contracts, and other liabilities would not have to be absorbed by HP. This proposed merger is a really lose-lose situation for HP.

My guess is that GE will underwrite this (give the junkies another fix to keep them coming back). One can only hope the BK judge sees what is going on and disallows the merger, or that the HP stockholders are smart enough to vote it down. This is bad for ALL airlines with the exception of US, and then only delays the inevitable. It is good for GE in the short to medium term.

LAX
Apr 20, 05, 11:23 am
......I agree whole heartedly with those that prefer HP's name over US. As previously stated US is damaged goods and their F product sucks. US F is just wide seat Y. HP F product on the other hand is quite nice from what I have heard.

I also agree that US Airways has a much broader appeal than America West Airlines as a brand. However, as many have pointed out, US Airways is damaged goods, thus not sure how much more appealing it really is.

IMO, HP will be partnering with a sinking ship. At best a merger of these two will result in a cheapening of the HP product. Or what is more likely the merged entity will eventually be down the tubes......

I am not as pessimistic on this merger. I think the combined entity has a good chance at least to survive (making small profits), if not prosper, if run properly. I think the variation of low cost model HP now employs works fairly well. If applied to the new entity, it may prosper now that it is no longer geographically limited as HP currently is.

Things would be better for HP if it waited for US to go belly up and HP could pick the assets it wanted at the BK fire sale and did not have to take on all of US baggage (literally). Under this scenario US' Baggage handlers, other employee contracts, and other liabilities would not have to be absorbed by HP. This proposed merger is a really lose-lose situation for HP.

While this may very well be true, but BK fire sale is open to all bidders. I am not sure if HP can outbid others, especially the lucrative pieces that everyone wants. Just look at the TZ deal. I agree US as it currently stands has quite a few baggages, but with BK court's help, I wonder if it's possible for HP to negotiate a deal that would minimize its acquiring liabilities.

Just out of curiosity with regards to employee contracts. Is it possible for US to void all employee contracts using BK's power and then have the newly merged entity rehire most, if not all, employees under new contract terms? If that's possible, I think it would be wise for the unions to start negotiating some clauses that would allow its member to retain some (not all) form of seniority in the new airline rather than risk everything.

LAX

Wilbur
Apr 21, 05, 1:11 pm
I hope Doug is using the merger talks as a chance to get an inside look at what is really occuring in US and the value of the US assets.

Then he can pull out, US can go bankrupt and take down the whole rotted mess of US management and unions and customer-serviceless east coast employees, while HP can bid on the assets it knows more about and can value more effectively in the firesale.

formeraa
Apr 22, 05, 11:53 am
I hope Doug is using the merger talks as a chance to get an inside look at what is really occuring in US and the value of the US assets.

Then he can pull out, US can go bankrupt and take down the whole rotted mess of US management and unions and customer-serviceless east coast employees, while HP can bid on the assets it knows more about and can value more effectively in the firesale.

I agree. I would rather that HP buy selected assets at a fire sale and hire new employees for HP (US employees can apply for jobs there.)

That being said, Doug Parker is not a dummy, nor are the people who work for him (Scott Kirby, etc.). They know what they are potentially getting into. It's too bad that HP didn't get ATA because I think that would have been a positive force with a mid-continent hub at MDW/IND. HP CAN compete with WN -- they have effectively positioned themselves as a full service, low cost carrier.

LAX
Apr 22, 05, 1:21 pm
I hope Doug is using the merger talks as a chance to get an inside look at what is really occuring in US and the value of the US assets.

Then he can pull out, US can go bankrupt and take down the whole rotted mess of US management and unions and customer-serviceless east coast employees, while HP can bid on the assets it knows more about and can value more effectively in the firesale.

HP will be outbid by others (namely WN) in a BK firesale just like the TZ deal. Although those airline CEOs currently in charge may not be the smartest bunch, everyone of them have their eyes on the lucrative pieces of US should there is a BK firesale. I know not everyone has a strong balance sheet to bid, but HP is not exactly flushed with cash either. It will not be the first time that HP gets outbid.

LAX

Wilbur
Apr 22, 05, 2:17 pm
HP will be outbid by others (namely WN) in a BK firesale just like the TZ deal. Although those airline CEOs currently in charge may not be the smartest bunch, everyone of them have their eyes on the lucrative pieces of US should there is a BK firesale. I know not everyone has a strong balance sheet to bid, but HP is not exactly flushed with cash either. It will not be the first time that HP gets outbid.

LAX

I guess I would be OK with HP being outbid if the HP executive team has better insight into the real value of the assets in a BK sale because of the merger talks. Losing a slot or a plane to somebody else who pays 2X the real asset value is no big loss.

Winning just a few bids at the right price is better than winning a lot of bids at excessive valuations in my opinion, and I would hope that HP finds themselves in that situation after merger talks break down.

tcook052
Apr 22, 05, 4:53 pm
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050422/laf046.html?.v=7

PHOENIX, April 22 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- In response to various inquiries and numerous speculative articles by the press, America West Airlines (NYSE: AWA - News) today confirmed that it is currently in discussions with US Airways regarding a potential merger. The Company emphasized that there is no assurance that the discussions will lead to a definitive agreement. America West does not intend to make any further announcements until a definitive agreement is reached or discussions are terminated.

trvlr64
Apr 22, 05, 7:11 pm
[QUOTE=Wilbur] customer-serviceless east coast employees [QUOTE]


EXCUSE ME?! As a customer, east coast that is, of USAIRWAYS, I find this comment insulting. I have been flying USAIR/USAIRWAYS since 1987. And I have been flying WEEKLY, yes WEEKLY since 1997. And in all those years I can say I have only had to deal with 2, count them 2, poor service related issues from "serviceless east coast employees" as you so eloquently called them.

Tell me how long you have been flying and how many times you've had poor customer service with HP or any other airline?? I've had more serviceless dealings with midwest and west coast employees on other airlines than I care to remember but I don't go spouting off nonsense.

But I do recall my most recent HP flight were the FC F/A ignored us after he served us drinks so he could go back to reading his nursing school book in the galley. HHHMM? Does this count as a serviceless west coast employee?

ByrdluvsAWACO
Apr 22, 05, 7:23 pm
Yeah, but we have nothing like PHL in the HP system.

And don't act like US is some grand airline with 5-star service. The first time I flew them they had us switching gates/planes multiple times in CLT with no help from their GA's. They were pretty service-less that day.

Personally, I find west coast employees to be more personable.

GotCalcio4
Apr 22, 05, 8:01 pm
Then he can pull out, US can go bankrupt and take down the whole rotted mess of US management and unions and customer-serviceless east coast employees, while HP can bid on the assets it knows more about and can value more effectively in the firesale.


This is a huge generalization and completely uncalled for. I can only imagine you refer to US employees as "Serviceless" because you had maybe one bad experience on US.

US employees are among the best in the business. Ask any US1 to tell you the top 5 reasons why he keeps flying US and I guarantee that the great service from employees is up there. You may want to take a look at the US forum to get an idea of the kind of reverence that US Preferred's hold for frontline US employees. And please don't base your opinions on single experiences with the occational sub-par employee. I find that some of the CLT and other Southern city-based FA's are some of the most hospitable people I ever encounter.

trvlr64
Apr 22, 05, 8:39 pm
Yeah, but we have nothing like PHL in the HP system.

And don't act like US is some grand airline with 5-star service. The first time I flew them they had us switching gates/planes multiple times in CLT with no help from their GA's. They were pretty service-less that day.

Personally, I find west coast employees to be more personable.


As a resident of Pennsylvania I hate PHL too. No disagreement there. I avoid PHL as much as possible. I never stated US was a 5 star airline. My retort was based on the "serviceless east coast employees" comment. By the looks of your profile and mine we both spend a lot of time in an airport. We both know from years of experience how to manage ourselves in an airport or with an airline we fly with consistently. And from my experience I have had less trouble with "serviceless east coast employees" than anywhere else in the entire system.

You said yourself, "the first time I flew them", right there that says it all.

ednursevt
Apr 22, 05, 8:51 pm
I am quite intrigued by the possible merging of these 2 companies. I have never flown on America West but from the website & the comments I see floating around this forum it sounds like a pretty good carrier. US has a route network that dominates the East Coast & Carribean plus has access to European routes & to the Star Alliance. HP looks to be very much a west coast carrier with connections into Mexico & Central America. The combination certainly opens up a lot of possibilities.

I agree with the previous posters that in a BK sale America West likely does not have the capital to buy up significant portions of US. It's likely other carriers would dissect the routes & take all the profitable ones leaving many destinations without service or with even more limited service.

It's funny how this industry works..I live near BTV and before JetBlue came in we were paying exhorbitant fares on US, UA, and CO. Then JetBlue arrived and all the fares went down...now, I can't get a flight on JetBlue for less than US, consistently! So, I stay with US.

If a deal can be brokered that gives US time to attrition senior staff naturally, can generate new contracts for the combined entity that are at least equivalent to, if not better than present, contracts, and can keep the best elements of both carriers intact, I think it would fly (no pun intended).

A final thought - I have stayed with US despite all of their problems because of three main things:
1. They go where I want to go at a reasonable price most of the time.
2. I have never had a bad experience with one of their employees - I
always have had great customer service at the gate and have been
accomodated without hassle during irregular travel.
3. I love the FF program and take advantage of it regularly.

:)

Daze
Apr 28, 05, 6:55 pm
[QUOTE=Wilbur] customer-serviceless east coast employees [QUOTE]


EXCUSE ME?! As a customer, east coast that is, of USAIRWAYS, I find this comment insulting. I have been flying USAIR/USAIRWAYS since 1987. And I have been flying WEEKLY, yes WEEKLY since 1997. And in all those years I can say I have only had to deal with 2, count them 2, poor service related issues from "serviceless east coast employees" as you so eloquently called them.

Tell me how long you have been flying and how many times you've had poor customer service with HP or any other airline?? I've had more serviceless dealings with midwest and west coast employees on other airlines than I care to remember but I don't go spouting off nonsense.

But I do recall my most recent HP flight were the FC F/A ignored us after he served us drinks so he could go back to reading his nursing school book in the galley. HHHMM? Does this count as a serviceless west coast employee?

This is an example of one of the problems that "Project Barbell" would have--that of integrating a senior "east coast" workforce, with a junior "west coast" workforce. And if the above post is magnified times the number of US/HP employees, it would be very difficult to get them to pull together. The AA/TWA "merger" had a lot of this type of problem. IMHO, it's not worth it.
I am curious why HP, a carrier that could be considered successful in the current environment, would be interested in US. US has gotten more concessions from labor than anyone else, and they are still losing piles of money. I agree with several posters that outside money in the form of bankers and funds and aircraft lessors such as GE are the ones pushing this as a means of protecting their assets. I think that they, and US, are the ones who are wooing HP in this deal.
s

formeraa
Apr 28, 05, 7:26 pm
[QUOTE=trvlr64][B][QUOTE=Wilbur] customer-serviceless east coast employees

This is an example of one of the problems that "Project Barbell" would have--that of integrating a senior "east coast" workforce, with a junior "west coast" workforce. And if the above post is magnified times the number of US/HP employees, it would be very difficult to get them to pull together. The AA/TWA "merger" had a lot of this type of problem. IMHO, it's not worth it.
I am curious why HP, a carrier that could be considered successful in the current environment, would be interested in US. US has gotten more concessions from labor than anyone else, and they are still losing piles of money. I agree with several posters that outside money in the form of bankers and funds and aircraft lessors such as GE are the ones pushing this as a means of protecting their assets. I think that they, and US, are the ones who are wooing HP in this deal.
s

Of course, they could get the bankruptcy court to cancel all union contracts and basically keep only the US employees that they need. But, you're right. GE is pushing this and, as a large creditor, may well get its way.

abeflyer
Apr 28, 05, 8:33 pm
HP and US both do many things well and many things not so well. Granted the US Airways brand might be damaged goods today, but how long ago was it that you could say the same thing about CO. CO came back due to quality managment--the same type of management HP has. US has the finance people in control and not airline people. Let the finance people raise the money--let Parker run a combined company. Union contract and different cultures don't have to be taken care of overnight--just because that's the way its always been done before. Suppose a new holding company is formed--US Airways (they say that's the brand that would survive). Then it owns two airlines that code share everything and share a common back office. Let's call them US Airways West and US Airways East. Separate airlines--different work forces, but working together. Once US's older work force retires five years from now merge the two, but the customers have already seen it as one company. Whatever is done don't junk the European destinations. US goes to 15 of them and they are money makers. That would give a combined venture room to grow and differentiate itself from SW.

formeraa
May 2, 05, 12:35 pm
HP and US both do many things well and many things not so well. Granted the US Airways brand might be damaged goods today, but how long ago was it that you could say the same thing about CO. CO came back due to quality managment--the same type of management HP has. US has the finance people in control and not airline people. Let the finance people raise the money--let Parker run a combined company. Union contract and different cultures don't have to be taken care of overnight--just because that's the way its always been done before. Suppose a new holding company is formed--US Airways (they say that's the brand that would survive). Then it owns two airlines that code share everything and share a common back office. Let's call them US Airways West and US Airways East. Separate airlines--different work forces, but working together. Once US's older work force retires five years from now merge the two, but the customers have already seen it as one company. Whatever is done don't junk the European destinations. US goes to 15 of them and they are money makers. That would give a combined venture room to grow and differentiate itself from SW.

This just might work IF all new employees are employed by the holding company (good luck getting that one past the unions) and US Airways East's costs are brought down to HP's level.

martin33
May 2, 05, 6:35 pm
I am quite intrigued by the possible merging of these 2 companies. I have never flown on America West but from the website & the comments I see floating around this forum it sounds like a pretty good carrier. US has a route network that dominates the East Coast & Carribean plus has access to European routes & to the Star Alliance. HP looks to be very much a west coast carrier with connections into Mexico & Central America. The combination certainly opens up a lot of possibilities.


that's what I don't get-- what are these possibilities, exactly, beyond a potential merger of back offices? sure, HP flies to SJO and SJD, but what would that mean to a flier in the east? a trip to CLT or PHL, then PHX, then SJO?? ouch, when AA and CO can do it in 2 legs more directly. adding a marginal carrier to a very weak carrier seems to be just an accumulation of mass.

ByrdluvsAWACO
May 2, 05, 8:16 pm
sure, HP flies to SJO and SJD, but what would that mean to a flier in the east?

Probably not much as those routes would serve western pax better just as US' caribbean routes don't serve people in the west so well. However, it really depends on where you are. With a little tweaking pax can do JFK-PHX-SJO on HP's system just as easy as on AA network. If you're flying from somwhere where regional service is needed to get to the hub then HP's system becomes too cumbersome.

The US half of the newly formed company would have to begin routes to SJD/SJO from both PHL and CLT just as there would need to be some PHX/LAS caribbean ns routes to eliminate double stops.

martin33
May 3, 05, 6:02 pm
The US half of the newly formed company would have to begin routes to SJD/SJO from both PHL and CLT just as there would need to be some PHX/LAS caribbean ns routes to eliminate double stops.

agreed, but the former is something US could do, and the latter something that HP could do, but neither is choosing to do. I don't see why a merged system would make those choices turn around and be profitable to undertake, when neither side would be getting feed from the other for them.

ByrdluvsAWACO
May 3, 05, 9:44 pm
...the latter something that HP could do, but neither is choosing to do.


Well, remember before all this merger talk started the one of the big rumors was new HP destinations in the Caribbean.


I don't see why a merged system would make those choices turn around and be profitable to undertake, when neither side would be getting feed from the other for them.

You can't look at it as two systems once a merger takes place. They will be eventually become one system. Yes, the west wouldn't feed into the eastern network all the time, and vice-versa. However, it would improve the overall usefulness of the network.

A useful network will attract more partners and passengers.

For example, HP's network will now include direct SEA-Eastcoast service. That's a market that HP never had access to.

martin33
May 4, 05, 5:26 pm
A useful network will attract more partners and passengers.

For example, HP's network will now include direct SEA-Eastcoast service. That's a market that HP never had access to.

I agree, but that's only a benefit for a handful of western cities that US already serves. I would still be concerned that the increase of usefulness in the combined network is automatically quite limited because the nearest pair of hubs in the two system halves is still 1800 miles apart....

haddon90
May 9, 05, 4:24 pm
i personally like the idea. everything i have heard about america west seems pretty good. usair is OK, but given their current situation, i can understand why service can lack. however, i have flown through charlotte, pittsburgh, and philadelphia numerous times, and have not had a problem at all at any times. the merger would certainly bring some relief in some markets, and with both airlines having their strengths on opposite coasts, it seems like a no brainer. i just hope the new airline if it happens, continues to stay a member of the star alliance so i can fly them and get points on UA!!!

haddon90
May 9, 05, 4:25 pm
because the nearest pair of hubs in the two system halves is still 1800 miles apart....

for some strange reason i thought columbus was a hub for america west. granted it's been a while since i followed the airlines, so mistake me if i'm wrong.

snokums925
May 9, 05, 6:20 pm
for some strange reason i thought columbus was a hub for america west. granted it's been a while since i followed the airlines, so mistake me if i'm wrong.

CMH was a hub for HP until 2003:
http://www.shareholder.com/americawest/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=154832

The hub was bleeding cash so it was closed. We still have flights to PHX and LAS from CMH, just no hub operations.

SkyHarbor
May 11, 05, 9:34 am
In light of the article mentioning midwest operations should the airlines merge, take a look at the specials page on the AWA website. There certainly are a lot of specials out of St. Louis. Coincidence?

http://www.americawest.com/specials/sp_faresales.asp

legionnaire
May 15, 05, 7:25 pm
Post merger, what would the FF program be?

From having flown HP in 2002/3/4, i have about 100k miles in balance. I don't think those expire under current rules. But, given the advanced state of the merger talks,
1. what would happen to mileage balances post merger? would they remain 1:1 in the new program?
2. Could they be redeemed on *A carriers?
3. Would the redemption rates change? (likely)
4. Any guesses what would be the redemption rates in the new world?

If this has already been covered in another thread, refer me there, i would be happy to read that up.



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