Trip Reports - BUSTED ORD-SFO for Smoking Onboard...

...no, not me, I'm just the one who first reported smoke! Couple of hairy minutes trying to locate the source--FAs calmly walked up and down the aisles feeling the overheads and checking galleys, doors, etc. It smelled electrical, so pax started to mildly freak. Turns out that someone didn't listen/take seriously the warnings about tampering w/the smoke detector--he was marched up to the front of the plane and stripped of his jacket, shoes, etc.

Everyone hoped for a little more drama upon landing, but just saw two very pissed-off looking SFPD outside the aircraft door. I assume they arrested the guy, but I thought this was a federal offense, so was expecting someone other than the local guys. Anyone have similar experience?

Everyone hoped for a little more drama upon landing, but just saw two very pissed-off looking SFPD outside the aircraft door. I assume they arrested the guy, but I thought this was a federal offense, so was expecting someone other than the local guys. Anyone have similar experience?

SFPD can hang onto him until a federal summons can be issued.

A night in the SF pokie might be worse than in a federal detention center, too...

A friend of mine told me that a FA taught him how to smoke in the bathroom. The sink runs at a vaccuum so just keep the cigarette down near the drain. The smoke gets sucked out.

I'm glad I never took up that habit.

SFPD can hang onto him until a federal summons can be issued.

A night in the SF pokie might be worse than in a federal detention center, too...

Not really, as the feds use the Oakland city jail as their holding area. I have "visited" clients in that facility and did not enjoy that area, so can't imagine that the rest of that facility is much nicer. And no frequent stay program benefits.

...no, not me, I'm just the one who first reported smoke! Couple of hairy minutes trying to locate the source--FAs calmly walked up and down the aisles feeling the overheads and checking galleys, doors, etc. It smelled electrical, so pax started to mildly freak. Turns out that someone didn't listen/take seriously the warnings about tampering w/the smoke detector--he was marched up to the front of the plane and stripped of his jacket, shoes, etc.

I'm confused -- was the person smoking, tampering with the smoke detector, or both? (I know both are violations of federal laws, I just wasn't sure from the way you described the situation.)

I'm confused -- was the person smoking, tampering with the smoke detector, or both? (I know both are violations of federal laws, I just wasn't sure from the way you described the situation.)

Both--he was smoking enough in the aft bathroom that I smelled it in mid-cabin. The smoke detector didn't go off, so the FAs assumed that he did both. btw--DogDad and I were traveling on a Fly3/FlyFree ticket to FCO and had to ride in the back...I used this as yet another example of the horrors of coach! :)

last wed. on my jfk lax flight some one from y went up to smoke in the j lav. i went in to the bathroom right after this person, or shortly there after and smelled the smoke right away. i asked the fa to check out the bathroom so that they would not think ot was me smoking but she said they know who it was a lapd would be waiting for the plane in lax when we land. i did not see them when we landed but i was not looking for them either

I hope that guy gets the book thrown at him.

Forgive my ignorance -- I'm hoping someone can answer this question. Do the smoke detectors in the lavs have an audible alarm, or could they be silent but send a signal to the cockpit? Just curious, but I would also be curious why it didn't sound in this situation? I'm sure in addition to batteries they are hard-wired into the aircraft electrical system.

Forgive my ignorance -- I'm hoping someone can answer this question. Do the smoke detectors in the lavs have an audible alarm, or could they be silent but send a signal to the cockpit? Just curious, but I would also be curious why it didn't sound in this situation? I'm sure in addition to batteries they are hard-wired into the aircraft electrical system.

SSI? :eek:

Why did he have to take his jacket and shoes off?

I was on one flight (either LAX-LHR or LAX-NRT) where someone (I assume a FA) had taped a butt to the outside of a J lav. I think the FA had found the butt in there and taped it as some sort of warning. On another flight I smelled smoke but didn't locate the source or witness anything.

On one BA flight the announcement said that anyone who smoked in a lav would set off an alarm and result in much embarrassment.

I thought I read somewhere that while passengers are not allowed to smoke in the cabin or lavatories, there is no such restriction covering the pilots in the cockpit. Does anyone know if they are allowed to smoke up there?

I thought I read somewhere that while passengers are not allowed to smoke in the cabin or lavatories, there is no such restriction covering the pilots in the cockpit. Does anyone know if they are allowed to smoke up there?

This may have changed (I know there had been some attempt to get it banned), but as recently as a couple of years ago there was no law against smoking in the cockpit, although it was and still is against the rules of most, if not all, US carriers. My husband has been in the cockpit with a chain-smoking pilot who opened all the vents and stuck his head between his knees to aim the smoke at a vent in order to smoke in the cockpit. I believe JAL still allows smoking in the cockpit because they think it's better to allow them to smoke than to suffer withdrawal symptoms.

...no, not me, I'm just the one who first reported smoke! Couple of hairy minutes trying to locate the source--FAs calmly walked up and down the aisles feeling the overheads and checking galleys, doors, etc. It smelled electrical, so pax started to mildly freak. Turns out that someone didn't listen/take seriously the warnings about tampering w/the smoke detector--he was marched up to the front of the plane and stripped of his jacket, shoes, etc.

Everyone hoped for a little more drama upon landing, but just saw two very pissed-off looking SFPD outside the aircraft door. I assume they arrested the guy, but I thought this was a federal offense, so was expecting someone other than the local guys. Anyone have similar experience?

I bet his defense will be to blame the tobacco companies. Then after that he'll sue the tobacco companies. :p

I bet his defense will be to blame the tobacco companies. Then after that he'll sue the tobacco companies. :p

For $40,000,000 no less! :td:

Forgive my ignorance -- I'm hoping someone can answer this question. Do the smoke detectors in the lavs have an audible alarm, or could they be silent but send a signal to the cockpit?

Interesting question. A quick Google search shows that they provide an alarm signal by horn and/or relay outputs connected to indication lamps.

Just curious, but I would also be curious why it didn't sound in this situation? I'm sure in addition to batteries they are hard-wired into the aircraft electrical system.

From previous threads on the subject I'm given to understand that a condom placed over the sensor is the cannonical way to "tamper" with it.

Forgive my ignorance -- I'm hoping someone can answer this question. Do the smoke detectors in the lavs have an audible alarm, or could they be silent but send a signal to the cockpit? Just curious, but I would also be curious why it didn't sound in this situation? I'm sure in addition to batteries they are hard-wired into the aircraft electrical system.

I was in a lav when the smoke detector accidentally went off (and no, I wasn't smoking). It chirped for a few seconds then shut itself off. No crew members were waiting for me when I left, so I assume that there is no remote signal (this was on either a 767-300 or DC-10).

Why did he have to take his jacket and shoes off?
Perhaps they thought he was going to try to light his shoes and jacket next a la Richard Reid.

Either way, I hope anyone who gets caught smoking in the lavatory gets the maximum punishment/fine. Get a nicotine patch if you can't make it that long without inhaling carcinogens.

Perhaps they thought he was going to try to light his shoes and jacket next a la Richard Reid.

Either way, I hope anyone who gets caught smoking in the lavatory gets the maximum punishment/fine. Get a nicotine patch if you can't make it that long without inhaling carcinogens.

i really hate smoke etc. but , i can understand the smokers.
i hope for the pax that there will be smoking toilets or something like that. this would be a argument for many people to book a flight .
may be in A380 ?

but only if i smell no smoke in my seat :)

i really hate smoke etc. but , i can understand the smokers.
i hope for the pax that there will be smoking toilets or something like that. this would be a argument for many people to book a flight .
may be in A380 ?

but only if i smell no smoke in my seat :)

Im a smoker but manage to fly without a cigarette. If things are so bad that you cant manage, then get shorter duration connecting flights and smoke between flights. I accept that in such a contained environment smoking is not appropriate.

How about a revenue generating idea along the lines of:

Smokers get a certification by Federal Officials that they are NOT on a watch list for terroristic threats.

Then the smokers get a certification by each airline they fly (The airline gets some money for a SMOKER stamp on the ticket).

Then the airline creates an asbestos room (bathroom), with special vents to keep airflow OUT out the plane.

Smokers pay per minute of time in the smoking room.

The result, the Feds get a bit of money. The airlines make money after the initial price of the room.

Smokers get yet another fee (which many will grumble about, yet pay)

--

By the way, in reality, it is a lavatory or toilet, not a bathroom. I'm just not that technical to care :-)

Too bad the TSA will no longer allow matches and lighters thru security after April 14th....

will make things a bit harder to light up in flight.

Speaking of smokers inflight, I was reading an airline's website and they offer "alternate tobacco sources" for smokers.... so airlines are now passin out the patches?!?!

I was flying HNL-LAX the other night, and the man behind me in 2A reeked of smoke.. I was feeling sick as it was (And still am) I almost had to vomit. Of course I was lucky to have boarded before all the non revs took up 70% of First, and got my seat moved. I ended up having to sit next to someone, a couple non revs got my seat 1A and 1B. And if I hadn't moved I would have got an empty seat next to me. I think people who smell of smoke should not be allowed to fly or at least need to be charged for four rows of seats

A friend of mine told me that a FA taught him how to smoke in the bathroom. The sink runs at a vaccuum so just keep the cigarette down near the drain. The smoke gets sucked out.

I'm glad I never took up that habit.

I've heard people say they use this technique, but I have my doubts as to its efficacy. I mean no offense whatsoever, but I'm always amazed that smokers don't seem to understand how widely smoke travels or how much smoke they emit after smoking.

I've been in meetings where a coworker who has obviously just been smoking enters, and the whole room smells smoky just from his breath. In restaurants and hotel lobbies, even one person smoking quickly fills the entire area. (Who was it who said "a smoking section in a restaurant is like a peeing section in a pool"?)

All pretty pathetic of course... 20 years ago people were free to smoke on board, and nowadays it is considered a federal offense, and the guy is treated like a frikkin terrorist.

Don't get me wrong, I as a non smoker am thrilled flights are all non-smoking nowadays, but the whole thing really does get taken out of proportion...

All pretty pathetic of course... 20 years ago people were free to smoke on board, and nowadays it is considered a federal offense, and the guy is treated like a frikkin terrorist.

Don't get me wrong, I as a non smoker am thrilled flights are all non-smoking nowadays, but the whole thing really does get taken out of proportion...

I also remember smoking flights. (The smoking section moved dynamically as people requested non-smoking seats. What a joke!)

Two points: (1) I also remember news stories about trash bins in lavs catching on fire from smokers (2) It's no business of mine what anyone else choses to do to his or her body. But their right to poison themselves should end at my body -- they should not have a right to poison me. If someone wants to shoot heroin into his or her veins next to me, let 'em. But smoking forces me to smoke. That's not right.

Too bad the TSA will no longer allow matches and lighters thru security after April 14th....

will make things a bit harder to light up in flight.

I don't know why they didn't introduce this sooner, seems the perfect way to stop smoking.


Speaking of smokers inflight, I was reading an airline's website and they offer "alternate tobacco sources" for smokers.... so airlines are now passin out the patches?!?!
Gum is what they get AFAIK.

Gum is what they get AFAIK.


I was once on airfrance flight from PVG-Rome (via paris) and they handed out water with nicotine in it. I was so bored I was tempted to try some....

You folks are all obviously smoking some serious $hit if you think the new ban on matches and lighters will have much impact. Since it is well known that knives, guns and other weapons can get through our current security snafu, do you really think they can stop matches? Or those little bic lighters?

Come on now. Get real.

That will be $5 please.

Thank You.

I've heard people say they use this technique, but I have my doubts as to its efficacy. I mean no offense whatsoever, but I'm always amazed that smokers don't seem to understand how widely smoke travels or how much smoke they emit after smoking.
For at least some of the smokers I know, I don't think they have any idea. They can't smell it so they don't know how a whole room smells like smoke when they come in after recently smoking.

Why did he have to take his jacket and shoes off?

Perhaps it was a smoking jacket.

Answers to questions.

Smoke detectors do not go off in the cockpit. They chirp in the Lav. and can be heard in the cabin.

Depending on the airline some pilots are allowed to smoke. Most carriers they are not. Some still do.

Perhaps it was a smoking jacket.
LOL!! :D

All pretty pathetic of course... 20 years ago people were free to smoke on board, and nowadays it is considered a federal offense, and the guy is treated like a frikkin terrorist.

Don't get me wrong, I as a non smoker am thrilled flights are all non-smoking nowadays, but the whole thing really does get taken out of proportion...

This has nothing to do with lung cancer killing you in four decades, this is about dying from asphyxiation in four minutes. Smoking in lavatories has been banned since 1973 when some idiot left a burning cigarette in a toilet bin on a Varig flight, killing 124 people on board. In my view, people who smoke in aircraft lavs should be locked up for a very long time indeed (so long as they were allowed to smoke in the cabin, at least we could see to it that they didn't start a fire).

i really hate smoke etc. but , i can understand the smokers.
i hope for the pax that there will be smoking toilets or something like that. this would be a argument for many people to book a flight .
may be in A380 ?

but only if i smell no smoke in my seat :)

On long-haul flights, Air France used to have 2 bars, one smoking, one non-smoking, for business and F pax. They were on either side of the plane next to the galleys. Y pax had a small area next to the aft lavatories, where they were allowed to remain only until they had finished their cigarette (up front J and F pax were allowed to linger and chat and drink Courvoisier). AF got quite a lot of my business this way when I used to smoke but they stopped this policy about 5 years ago, maybe more. Both smoking areas had separate ventilation and were screened off from the rest of the cabin. I never heard of non-smoking pax complaining. Of course, I'm pretty sure I bothered my neighbours when I went back into the cabin and breathed my stinking breath all over the place... :o
Nowadays of course I'm the most tyrannical antismoker...

I guess smoking is outlawed because:
1. It involves matches/lighters (which are now banned on US flights) and fire- possible bomb starters?
2. If smoking were allowed it'd be hard to tell early on if there really was fire/electrical problem with the aircraft
3. It's bad for one's health...but it's better for the airlines to appeal to the general public who feel that non-smoking should be the way in public places (see Florida)

Smoking in lavatories has been banned since 1973 when some idiot left a burning cigarette in a toilet bin on a Varig flight, killing 124 people on board.

And possibly, although no exact cause for the start of the fire in the lavatory was ever determined, the 23 people who died aboard Air Canada #797 in June, 1983.

http://pw2.netcom.com/~asapilot/797.html

Smoking in lavatories has been banned since 1973 when some idiot left a burning cigarette in a toilet bin on a Varig flight, killing 124 people on board.
This is interesting. I looked it up and apparently they lost 124 out of 135 pax, despite landing 8 minutes after the fire broke out. Wow.

Then in 1983, 23 peopled died on an Air Canada flight in a similar situation.

(edited to add) Looks like greggwiggins posted while I was typing.

Just a correction to above posts that while all lighters will be banned, the new ban in April allows up to four books of matches. Issue has been heavily discussed in the Security Forum.

Speaking of smokers inflight, I was reading an airline's website and they offer "alternate tobacco sources" for smokers.... so airlines are now passin out the patches?!?!

I figured it would be a pouch of Redman and a spittoon. :p

Slightly OT:
On UA last Sunday (coincidentally on ORD-SFO, like the OP), the landing announcements suggested we "refrain from smoking until leaving the state of California." Gots lots of laughs.

I hope we are all aware that smoking is still legal,not on planes or specific public places but all the same it is legal.It is also legal for the fellow sitting next to me on a plane to choose a very bad smelling cologne that I as a migraine suffer happens to be a trigger for a migraine.Migraines can be just as deadly as any other health issue.I guess my point is one persons freedom of choice can rack havac on anothers.

Have A Good Day!

A friend of mine told me that a FA taught him how to smoke in the bathroom. The sink runs at a vaccuum so just keep the cigarette down near the drain. The smoke gets sucked out.

I'm glad I never took up that habit.

That reminds me of an old routine George Carlin used to do about
smoking a joint in the lav. He said TWA always had the best
sink suction.

Deleted

Interesting question. A quick Google search shows that they provide an alarm signal by horn and/or relay outputs connected to indication lamps.



From previous threads on the subject I'm given to understand that a condom placed over the sensor is the cannonical way to "tamper" with it.



Most of the smoke detectors on newer acft (90's & up) are hard wired to the acft electrical system and have both an audible alarm & post a "lav smoke" warning on the EICAS display in the cockpit.

Too bad the TSA will no longer allow matches and lighters thru security after April 14th....





How in the world are they going to enforce that?

Matches in pants pockets aren't going to set off the metal detector.

Can matches in carry-ons even be seen on x-ray?

And possibly, although no exact cause for the start of the fire in the lavatory was ever determined, the 23 people who died aboard Air Canada #797 in June, 1983.

http://pw2.netcom.com/~asapilot/797.html


Isn't that the one that killed Curtis Mathes (Owner of an old US-based TV manufacturer) and Stan Rogers (wonderful Canadian folk singer)?

How in the world are they going to enforce that?

Matches in pants pockets aren't going to set off the metal detector.

Can matches in carry-ons even be seen on x-ray?
It looks like they're not going to ban matches for the time being.

They are still banning all lighters. Same problem though - plastic lighters are tough to see on an x-ray, and they won't set off the metal detector. So bad guys will still be able to bring them through without a problem and good guys will be hassled enormously.

Much, much more discussion in the Travel Saftey & Security thread.

I think people who smell of smoke should not be allowed to fly or at least need to be charged for four rows of seats

Dreamer... your nothing but a Dreamer..

Hi,
Can you comment as to the incident with a few more details such as:
*What sort of announcements if any were made as the issue was investigated, and as the investigation pointed to the one gentlemen? E.g. did they say "we caught the smoker?"
**You say the gentlemen was brought to the front of the plane, and that his jacket and shoes were taken off. After this, where was the gentlemen kept while the flight continued? E.g. in his original seat, in first somewhere, or in some other part of the plane?
**You mentioned that there were 2 SFPD upon landing. Were there any announcements that all pax should remain seated, etc? Did you see any discussions between SFO PD, the crew, and the pax?

Just trying to get you to "take us with you," if you will :). I realize you may not have been able to witness more than you posted, but will ask in case you did.
Thank you.

Hi,
**You say the gentlemen was brought to the front of the plane, and that his jacket and shoes were taken off. After this, where was the gentlemen kept while the flight continued? E.g. in his original seat, in first somewhere, or in some other part of the plane?



In other words, did he get an in-flight op-up due to his behavior?

:)

i really hate smoke etc. but , i can understand the smokers.
i hope for the pax that there will be smoking toilets or something like that. this would be a argument for many people to book a flight .
may be in A380 ?

but only if i smell no smoke in my seat :)
I am a smoker and even I can make a 13 hr. DTW-KIX run without a cigarrette. I can remember when I used to make these kinds of flights before the smoking ban and even as a smoker found the air quality, smell and overall enjoyability of the flight to be disgusting.

I thought I read somewhere that while passengers are not allowed to smoke in the cabin or lavatories, there is no such restriction covering the pilots in the cockpit. Does anyone know if they are allowed to smoke up there?


While on Alitalia Copenhagen-Milan last spring- the cockpit door was open for a bit and I could see pilot smoking while we were cruising! I was kind of shocked, especially since the stewardess had come after me for using my laptop computer with a (gasp!) CD drive, which is not allowed in Italy for some reason.

DL actually has verbiage in their contract of carriage that prohibits smokleless tobacco also. :p Not sure if others do. I remember a sketch on Saturday Night Live where the captain turns off the "no chewing" sign and everyone puts in a dip and spits all over. :eek:

Skywest used to make that announcement ... that smoking or the use of smokeless tobacco were prohibited aboard ... but I haven't heard it in a while.

I also remember smoking flights. (The smoking section moved dynamically as people requested non-smoking seats. What a joke!)

I remember when Pan Am tried out a new smoking section plan in economy (I think they called it "Cabin Class" at the time) on their 747s. All of the seats in the three seat section on the right side were smoking, the rest of the seats were not. That didn't last long. And the smoking section for economy on TWA 747s was at the front of coach, just behind the smoking section for business (Ambassador) class. Not sure how long that one lasted. Doesn't AeroCalifornia still allow smoking?

Skywest used to make that announcement ... that smoking or the use of smokeless tobacco were prohibited aboard ... but I haven't heard it in a while.

i just noticed tih sannouncement on a SSNA-LAX flight last night. I do skywest a lot and this is the first time i heard it. I've also seen peel "dip" on mainline flights. The FA said nothing about it. though I think it is disguisting what is the reasoning behind banning it?

I bet his defense will be to blame the tobacco companies. Then after that he'll sue the tobacco companies. :p


Huh? What's your agenda? :rolleyes:

For $40,000,000 no less! :td:



Why are you "suspended"? Was it for your wild imagination? :)

I also remember smoking flights. (The smoking section moved dynamically as people requested non-smoking seats. What a joke!)


Yeah, I remember being seated in the first row of the smoking section after asking for a seat in the non-smoking section and being told with a straight face "You're in a non-smoking seat."

Some people forget Smoking on a plane is not illegal, but it is Illegal to tamper with the smoke detector.

to refresh your memory...

"Smoking on an Airplane is Prohibited. Federal Law prohibits tampering with disabling or destroying smoke detectors."

Prohibited is not illegal... just against the rules ;)

Some people forget Smoking on a plane is not illegal, but it is Illegal to tamper with the smoke detector.

to refresh your memory...

"Smoking on an Airplane is Prohibited. Federal Law prohibits tampering with disabling or destroying smoke detectors."

Prohibited is not illegal... just against the rules ;)
It is illegal to disobey instructions from the crew or an airline's posted signs. Therefore it is illegal to smoke on a plane.

This has nothing to do with lung cancer killing you in four decades, this is about dying from asphyxiation in four minutes. Smoking in lavatories has been banned since 1973 when some idiot left a burning cigarette in a toilet bin on a Varig flight, killing 124 people on board. In my view, people who smoke in aircraft lavs should be locked up for a very long time indeed (so long as they were allowed to smoke in the cabin, at least we could see to it that they didn't start a fire).

Good point. I ask to all of you... do YOU trust some random smoking stranger to properly dispose of a cig on a plane?

I had a roommate once who smoked, put the butt in a trashcan, and almost sent a highrise in downtown LA up in smoke.

Some people forget Smoking on a plane is not illegal, but it is Illegal to tamper with the smoke detector.

to refresh your memory...

"Smoking on an Airplane is Prohibited. Federal Law prohibits tampering with disabling or destroying smoke detectors."

Prohibited is not illegal... just against the rules ;)

Isn't it a US federal law that prohibits smoking on all US carriers when arriving or departing the United States? AFAIK, it is. Which I think makes it illegal, right? When the first ban went into effect, smoking was still allowed on domestic flights over 6(?) hours, and I think TWA was the last of the holdouts on STL-HNL. Then the law was tightened to include all flights operated by US carriers to, from or within the United States. Note that it applies only to US carriers. Foreign carriers are not under the same restriction, although the only foreign carrier I can think of that still allows smoking is Aero California between the United States and Mexico.

I remember long time ago (maybe 10+ years) on SEA-ICN flight on KE, people used congragate in back of the plane and smoked. I would guess it was right after the smoking ban and flight attandants didn't say anything at first but the congregation continued to remain for more than 3 hours random people coming in and out. After a while, the FA did remind people its a non smoking flight.

"bla blah requires compliance with lighted signs, placards, and crew member instructions"
the smoking sign is always on, so smoking would be in violation of this, correct?

OK, what are the elements of proof if you go to trial for smoking on a plane? If I flush the butt down the toilet and no one actually sees me smoking (maybe they only hear the alarm), how are they going to convict me? Do FA's have to show up in court and testify? Even tampering with the alrm would seem hard to prove in most cases. Yes, the alarm was tampered with, but I defy you to prove that I did it! Seriously, does anybody know how they go about proving these offenses in court?

OK, what are the elements of proof if you go to trial for smoking on a plane? If I flush the butt down the toilet and no one actually sees me smoking (maybe they only hear the alarm), how are they going to convict me? Do FA's have to show up in court and testify? Even tampering with the alrm would seem hard to prove in most cases. Yes, the alarm was tampered with, but I defy you to prove that I did it! Seriously, does anybody know how they go about proving these offenses in court?

It's beyond a REASONABLE doubt... or, if there's no other reasonable explanation, then that pax should be guilty of it.

Get FAs who testify as to the functionality of the smoke detector. Get pax who say they smelled smoke at the time the accused was there. Get witnesses who entered the lav before the accused they saw nothing amiss. Get witnesses who entered the lav afterwards and say they saw it broken. Substantiate everyones creditibility. A persuasive closing statement, and there you go :D

Basically, the DA/USAtty doesn't have you prove you DID it... they could just show that nobody ELSE could have done it.

...no, not me, I'm just the one who first reported smoke! Couple of hairy minutes trying to locate the source--FAs calmly walked up and down the aisles feeling the overheads and checking galleys, doors, etc. It smelled electrical, so pax started to mildly freak. Turns out that someone didn't listen/take seriously the warnings about tampering w/the smoke detector--he was marched up to the front of the plane and stripped of his jacket, shoes, etc.

Everyone hoped for a little more drama upon landing, but just saw two very pissed-off looking SFPD outside the aircraft door. I assume they arrested the guy, but I thought this was a federal offense, so was expecting someone other than the local guys. Anyone have similar experience?


Eeeek. Forced to walk in a plane with no shoes. Talk about punishment!

It's beyond a REASONABLE doubt... or, if there's no other reasonable explanation, then that pax should be guilty of it.

Get FAs who testify as to the functionality of the smoke detector. Get pax who say they smelled smoke at the time the accused was there. Get witnesses who entered the lav before the accused they saw nothing amiss. Get witnesses who entered the lav afterwards and say they saw it broken. Substantiate everyones creditibility. A persuasive closing statement, and there you go :D

Basically, the DA/USAtty doesn't have you prove you DID it... they could just show that nobody ELSE could have done it.


Wow, that's a lot of witnesses to bring in for a trial considering more than half of them are probably from out of town. Doesn't sound very feasible. Anyone else have a more practical answer?

OK, what are the elements of proof if you go to trial for smoking on a plane? If I flush the butt down the toilet and no one actually sees me smoking (maybe they only hear the alarm), how are they going to convict me? Do FA's have to show up in court and testify? Even tampering with the alrm would seem hard to prove in most cases. Yes, the alarm was tampered with, but I defy you to prove that I did it! Seriously, does anybody know how they go about proving these offenses in court?
Even if this is hard to prove, do you want to go through the ordeal of getting arrested, having your trip (vacation or work or returning home) interrupted? Even if the charges are dropped in the end because of the difficulty in making a case, you're still the loser because of the time, hassle, expense, notoriety, arrest record, etc.

Why did he have to take his jacket and shoes off?
Ritual humiliation, it sounds like.

Ritual humiliation, it sounds like.
Is it just me or does everyone ..... about everything anymore?
I have many friends that are non smokers, I smoke.

They complain about it but their the first ones to light up a doobie
when we're partying.

Here's something to ..... about, 300lb person, can't squueze into seat,
crushes all around them. Hold your tounge though, we have to be sensitive to their girth.

Another one carry on baggage, the airline always looses my luggage that's why I am holding up the aisle. Can't lift my 50lb carry on bag into the overhead.

I say all carry on luggage people to the back, all obese people pay for two seats and all the smokers and pot heads up front.