America West FlightFund (Discontinued Program) - I didn't get upgraded today, but an employee did

As a newly minted HP Silver (I'll admit it straight up, via a trial elite challange) I was looking forward to my first trip on them in over a year. My first impression was great, the women working the phones at Flight Fund are wonderful as are the airport staff. Today I was on HP 711 from PHX to LAS and while at the airport I asked twice if there were any First Class seats to which I was told no. No matter, it was a 44 minute flight, so I headed onboard the oversold flight to 11F. All around me in rows 10 and 11 were uniformed crew members who were rather friendly. However, about five minutes prior to departure, a gate agent came up to the uniformed pilot in 10F and said "would you like to move to 1C? You'll be more comfortable there". Now I am quite miffed, I specifically asked TWICE about an upgrade and was either lied to or two independant people were wrong. I hope things turn out better for me on my return flight next week.

If I were you I would write a letter straight to the top. I know one member had success Fedexing a letter straight to Doug Parker. Perhaps Doug Parker should come out with a statement like Joe Leonard and state categorically that employees don't belong in first class seats. :D

I've seen employees refuse to sit in first because it's supposed to be against company policy except (so I was told) in the situtation where the pilot was being flown some place to immediately fly a plane (then I guess they want the pilot to be comfortable and rested) or if it's staff from another airline (and they're extending courtesy to people beyond the reach of their head office...)

I don't know if ANY of that is true, but that's what I've been told.

This happens all the time. I suspect first class was, in fact, booked full, maybe even checked in full. Someone who checked in on-line or was making a connection didn't make it for whatever reason, so 10 minutes before departure they realized they have an empty seat. Rather than look at their elite list and upgrade from it, they went for a pilot.

I don't know if the gate agents who do this don't know how much it frustrates their company's elite customers, or just don't care.

Either way, employees commuting to or from their base (which is what is happening most of the time) should not be put in first class over an elite member. A pilot who lives, by his choosing, in PHX and flies out of LAS is commuting to work. He doesn't need to sit in first class for his commute when he's filling a seat that an elite passenger has earned. HP needs a firm policy on this issue and the agents need to follow it.

This happens all the time. I suspect first class was, in fact, booked full, maybe even checked in full. Someone who checked in on-line or was making a connection didn't make it for whatever reason, so 10 minutes before departure they realized they have an empty seat. Rather than look at their elite list and upgrade from it, they went for a pilot.

I don't know if the gate agents who do this don't know how much it frustrates their company's elite customers, or just don't care.

Either way, employees commuting to or from their base (which is what is happening most of the time) should not be put in first class over an elite member. A pilot who lives, by his choosing, in PHX and flies out of LAS is commuting to work. He doesn't need to sit in first class for his commute when he's filling a seat that an elite passenger has earned. HP needs a firm policy on this issue and the agents need to follow it.

Exactly. I couldn't agree more. Honestly, what is the pilot going to do on the 40 minute filght in F? Enjoy the complimentary alcohol? I hope not. :D I honestly cannot believe that there was a good reason for this (such as the pilot not being able to fly after sitting in coach for 40 minutes, I mean, come on! How many 2+ hour CRJ flights have we all suffered through?) Therefore, the only reasonable connection is that for some reason the GAs are engaged in a you-scratch my back- I'll scratch yours type of situation, which is equally unacceptable.

I had a similar situation the other night, PHX-LAS. Employees in F, and I passed a PLATINUM who sat down in coach. Unless he was a last minute-stand-by or on an award ticket, why in the world was *I* in F and not him (not that I was complaining, but in the sake of fairness I did wonder), and why were there two employees up front?

I'd be happy to sign an FT based petition or letter to Doug or FlightFund if we ever choose to pursue this on a group basis.

We have to get management to go give us the official word on these situations. We cannot accept "we'll look into it" or a voucher, this kind of situation happens all too often. How many of us have seen first class seats go empty or with employees while we look on from the exit rows, another pet peeve of mine :mad: . Line employees will look upon us as whiners but we need to have our voices heard by upper management who realize exactly how important we are. We need to organize a petition to show Doug Parker and the rest that it is not just a few who are fed up. If they want to hold on to their beloved freddie they need to earn it. It worked for Delta flyers and even US members we can do it. If there is any petition I will proudly offer my support and more if needed.

This happens all the time. I suspect first class was, in fact, booked full, maybe even checked in full. Someone who checked in on-line or was making a connection didn't make it for whatever reason, so 10 minutes before departure they realized they have an empty seat. Rather than look at their elite list and upgrade from it, they went for a pilot.

I would normally assume that it was for this same (non-excusable) excuse.

It was also on a LAS to PHX flite so no big deal. Tho being that late nite 1 or 2 am arrival, it would've been nice.

I thot it was odd that I didn't get the upgrade in advance but figured they had actually sold out in First, or at least down to one or two seats that they still wanted to try and sell. So I checked with the Agent just before boarding and she politely says that First is sold out. Ok, no problem.

Well they start the boarding with crew members first (yea ... even before the chairs and babies :confused: My only possible excuse for this was maybe the Flight Attendants working the trip hadn't shown up yet so that can't legally allow "passengers" who aren't trained in HP's emergency procedures to board. I kid you not .... there were at least 50 pilots who boarded !!!

So they finally get down in the boarding order to us lowly Elites and First Class folks. And what do I see in First as I pass thru ?? 3 uniformed Pilots :mad:

Not to mention that they all had their kit bags in addition to personal luggage so the overheads were full before the plane was even half full. My "seatmate" in the middle seat was a pilot. Insisted on sitting with arms on both armrests and elbows protruding into the other seats the whole flight AND both legs spread with his feet under the window/aisle seats (no bag under the middle). He was a tall dude but come'on. I guess he was upset over not being one of the lucky 3.

Steve

It's also very likely that even if they did pull an elite, it wouldn't be you. Silvers are pretty low on the food chain.

It's also very likely that even if they did pull an elite, it wouldn't be you. Silvers are pretty low on the food chain.

Well, that is true, but I believe the principle of the matter is important here. ANY Elite, full paying Y/H/B pax, any paying-non-elite, should be put in F before they upgrade an employee.

So, they didn't upgrade him? Well, I bet the OP wouldn't be complaining if they found a gold and moved him to the front, etc. The problem is the fact that they appeared to go outside the policy (if there is a policy) and upgraded a non-rev.

My 2¢.

I would normally assume that it was for this same (non-excusable) excuse.

It was also on a LAS to PHX flite so no big deal. Tho being that late nite 1 or 2 am arrival, it would've been nice.

I thot it was odd that I didn't get the upgrade in advance but figured they had actually sold out in First, or at least down to one or two seats that they still wanted to try and sell. So I checked with the Agent just before boarding and she politely says that First is sold out. Ok, no problem.

Well they start the boarding with crew members first (yea ... even before the chairs and babies :confused: My only possible excuse for this was maybe the Flight Attendants working the trip hadn't shown up yet so that can't legally allow "passengers" who aren't trained in HP's emergency procedures to board. I kid you not .... there were at least 50 pilots who boarded !!!

So they finally get down in the boarding order to us lowly Elites and First Class folks. And what do I see in First as I pass thru ?? 3 uniformed Pilots :mad:

Not to mention that they all had their kit bags in addition to personal luggage so the overheads were full before the plane was even half full. My "seatmate" in the middle seat was a pilot. Insisted on sitting with arms on both armrests and elbows protruding into the other seats the whole flight AND both legs spread with his feet under the window/aisle seats (no bag under the middle). He was a tall dude but come'on. I guess he was upset over not being one of the lucky 3.

Steve

Absolutely unacceptable. You should definitely write HP with this story. Reading this thread reminds me of the same story that happened to me late last fall when I was in Y and a uniformed pilot sat in F--ridiculous. Just like agtmulder says at the bottom the point is not whether or not the OP was a silver, it's the way it's handled and carried out is the problem. This drives me nuts :mad:

This happens out of LAS to PHX quite a lot. The hoard of FA and Pilots board first, and fill up the overheads so you have to get on fast to find any space at all. That irks me the most, much more than them putting pilots up in First.

I rarely (if ever) see FA sitting in front, and only occasionally Pilots. There are some work rules with putting pilots up front, but I can't see that would apply on a deadhead run home at night. Even with all that said, if anyone should be happy, spoiled, and well taken care of at HP, it’s the pilots. I want them to love what they do and do it well, and if it pleases them to be in FC, than so be it. If this was happening on 5 hour flights I would be bummed and would change my tune, but on these 1 hour flights I can live with it.

I would like to see the FA’s gate check their bags, tho.

I would like to see the FA’s gate check their bags, tho.

I was shocked to see just this happen on the last mainline flight of the night from LAS to PHX a couple of nights ago. Several crew bags were gate checked.

Saying that an employee does not belong in first class is downright disrespectful. Airline employees work for the benefit to travel and by chance experience First Class. The front line employees, flight attendants, pilots have all taken huge pay cuts since 9-11 and air fares are still very low. The industry is on very shakey ground with fuel costs sky rocketing. Also airlines are doing things to make extra money and America West is no exception. They have same day travel first class upgrades. Maybe that ONE seat was being held for a purchase upgrade (seats are held for that) and the agent forget to release the seat in a timely manner and instead of delaying the flight to upgrade the silver member (which silver status is very easily obtained) the agent just moved the pilot. In the big picture of our society/world/economy, getting bent out of shape over a first class upgrade on a 40 minute flight is petty. Starting a petition will get you nowhere really. AWA will probably send you a form apology letter and a travel voucher. This would be a total different story if this was a long haul flight and the originator said this was an oversold flight, so maybe they moved the pilot in order to get another passenger on.

Griping about sitting in your exit seat...I know many frequent fliers who would rather have the exit seat than first class.

Crew getting their bags gate checked. Did you know as a passenger the airline carries insurance on your bag so if it lost or damaged they are responsible but if a CREW members bag is lost or damaged the airline will not replace the bag or the contents in the bag...that is why you rarely see crew/employees gate checking their luggage. Also if passengers adhered to the FAA carry on policy and the FAA sizer limitations, there would be plenty of space for carry ons. But everyone is only worried about themselves and no one else...the carry on bins are not designed to hold all those overstuffed rollerboards and laptop cases. This is a huge safety concern that you as a traveler should be concerned about.

Not only are employees' luggage and contents not insured, but suppose the employee was deadheading to work and their "checked or special-handled" luggage did not arrive with them. They are not obligated to travel without their luggage. This would result in either a flight delay or cancellation. In addition, they have a contract with the airline that allows them to preboard and carry their luggage with them. As I understand, they are presently negotiating a new contract. I seriously doubt they would allow this portion to be deleted.

Saying that an employee does not belong in first class is downright disrespectful.


Saying a paying customer who pumps in $5,000+ a year in revenue should be bumped from an upgrade and considered lower than a non-rev passenger is disrespectful.

(Note: I'm sure others on this board pay more in revenue for tickets a year. I'm simply ballparking what I would estimate the average mid-tier Silver person would spend).


Airline employees work for the benefit to travel and by chance experience First Class.

I thought they worked for money/salary. I know they may be entitled to space available vouchers as a benefit, but where in their contract does it state they are entitled to First Class when elite passengers or paying folks are on board?

The front line employees, flight attendants, pilots have all taken huge pay cuts since 9-11 and air fares are still very low. The industry is on very shakey ground with fuel costs sky rocketing. Also airlines are doing things to make extra money and America West is no exception.

Which is why they should encourage return buisness. Seeing random employees getting upgraded in a wink-wink system discourages this as it makes customers like myself think that our money and revenue we generate isn't valuable or important to them. Complimentary upgrades do this.

Airlines want money? Give the big spenders/elites complimentary upgrades, and we'll keep purchasing our tickets.

Maybe that ONE seat was being held for a purchase upgrade (seats are held for that) and the agent forget to release the seat in a timely manner and instead of delaying the flight to upgrade the silver member (which silver status is very easily obtained) the agent just moved the pilot.


I'm sure it is usually more than one seat. I've seen folks here mention 2-3 seats or 33%. I'm not sure what the exact number is, but it's probably a bit higher than one.

Delaying the flight to upgrade the silver member? How long does it take to walk onboard and find the elite member (they already know the seat assignment) and tell them to move up to 1B or whatever? It probably took them the same amount of time (or more) to find the traveling crew member.

If silver status is easily obtained, perhaps they should tighten up how frequently they award it? Are silvers looked down by employees as being almost non-elites?


In the big picture of our society/world/economy, getting bent out of shape over a first class upgrade on a 40 minute flight is petty. Starting a petition will get you nowhere really. AWA will probably send you a form apology letter and a travel voucher. This would be a total different story if this was a long haul flight and the originator said this was an oversold flight, so maybe they moved the pilot in order to get another passenger on.

Nobody here is getting bent out of shape (at least I hope not). Merely suggesting comments on how we think HP may improve things. We all have a vested interest in seeing our favorite airline succeed. I know the vast majority of us here enjoy flying on america west and know that it is the best alternative to other LCCs and some other airlines.

If letters/petitions get us nowhere then what is the best way to have this resolved in the future? How would you suggest we make our comments known?

Anyway, I hope you don't take my comments/reply back as an attack on HP or its employees but rather some suggestions as to why I believe the way I do about F upgrades, etc. I take it from your handle that you are a worker for HP or another airline. I appreciate the work you do, and I know it is very important. Perhaps we've met before inflight.

In conclusion, Welcome to Flyertalk! ^^^ We need more insiders like you to give us feedback and discuss our ideas and comments from other points of view.

Have a great day. :)

Saying a paying customer who pumps in $5,000+ a year in revenue should be bumped from an upgrade and considered lower than a non-rev passenger is disrespectful.

(Note: I'm sure others on this board pay more in revenue for tickets a year. I'm simply ballparking what I would estimate the average mid-tier Silver person would spend).



I thought they worked for money/salary. I know they may be entitled to space available vouchers as a benefit, but where in their contract does it state they are entitled to First Class when elite passengers or paying folks are on board?



Which is why they should encourage return buisness. Seeing random employees getting upgraded in a wink-wink system discourages this as it makes customers like myself think that our money and revenue we generate isn't valuable or important to them. Complimentary upgrades do this.

Airlines want money? Give the big spenders/elites complimentary upgrades, and we'll keep purchasing our tickets.



I'm sure it is usually more than one seat. I've seen folks here mention 2-3 seats or 33%. I'm not sure what the exact number is, but it's probably a bit higher than one.

Delaying the flight to upgrade the silver member? How long does it take to walk onboard and find the elite member (they already know the seat assignment) and tell them to move up to 1B or whatever? It probably took them the same amount of time (or more) to find the traveling crew member.

If silver status is easily obtained, perhaps they should tighten up how frequently they award it? Are silvers looked down by employees as being almost non-elites?




Nobody here is getting bent out of shape (at least I hope not). Merely suggesting comments on how we think HP may improve things. We all have a vested interest in seeing our favorite airline succeed. I know the vast majority of us here enjoy flying on america west and know that it is the best alternative to other LCCs and some other airlines.

If letters/petitions get us nowhere then what is the best way to have this resolved in the future? How would you suggest we make our comments known?

Anyway, I hope you don't take my comments/reply back as an attack on HP or its employees but rather some suggestions as to why I believe the way I do about F upgrades, etc. I take it from your handle that you are a worker for HP or another airline. I appreciate the work you do, and I know it is very important. Perhaps we've met before inflight.

In conclusion, Welcome to Flyertalk! ^^^ We need more insiders like you to give us feedback and discuss our ideas and comments from other points of view.

Have a great day. :)

Well said AgtMulder. I concur with your thoughts as I'm sure most of our fellow HP elite flyers do as well ^

Hi All! Newbie, here!
I felt compelled to register in order to respond to several items on this thread.

This is long, but informative...

First of all, to CMK10, nobody gets an upgrade at the gate unless they are on the Standby List. Do not ask "Is First Class full?" You need to specifically insist to be put on the Standby List. "Will you add me to the Stanby List for First Class?" The answer will prob be, "First Class is full." (It's usually "full".)
This is a lazy gate agent. They aren't paid enuf to care, they aren't trained to care. Turnover is high, and the goal is to have at least one agent to work the flight, altho it really should be two. I digress...
Insist to be added to the Standby List anyway.
Here is the crux of the problem; in order for comp gate upgrades to work, you need a gate agent who puts you on the list, a gate agent who actually looks at the list and clears it 10min prior, (providing its not an oversold or late flight), and time to move you from Y to F.
It helps also to have a Professional First FA who says, upon seeing an empty seat left in his/her cabin, "Is there anyone on the Standby List for First?"
If the gate agent is good, the First FA will have a copy of the S/B list on their paperwork. This shows confirmed Y pax waiting for F, full fare Y pax waiting for a seat, and non-revs in order of priority. Not all First FAs look at this info or understand it. These are not "Professional Firsts", which is how I refer to FAs who choose to work F, enjoy it, and try to do it "right".
I'm guessing you weren't actually on the S/B list. As far as taking the pilot up, this has to be an isolated incident, cuz that seems like opening quite a can of worms to me, what with all the other DH crew around. I'm surprised this happened and it could be there were unusual circumstances you don't know about.

Which brings us to...telling the FA when you board that you are an Elite and are in 6c, but would like to sit in FC. There is nothing the FA can do about upgrading you unless you are on the S/B list. There are always several Elites stuck in Y on each flight and we have no way to verify eligibility and priority. But at least this is a "heads up" to the Proffesional FA to question the gate agent before closing the door.

Which brings us to...when departure time comes, you turn into a pumpkin. Gate agents are threatened with their jobs if they take even a minute delay, and they are pressured to close early. No way will anyone take even a minute to bump you up at departure time.

Which brings us to Steve64...Not sure what your idea of the appropriate way for a middle seat pax to sit is. Also, I am wondering if you have different guidelines for pax wearing uniforms, vs pax not wearing uniforms.

Now, about that "crew hauler"...this is the late flight from LAS to PHX and also a couple of evening flights from PHX to LAS.
Now that we have a pilot base in LAS, (opened in Feb, I believe,) you will see fewer pilots deadheading (this is not the same as commuting. Commuting pilots generally sit in the FD). However, the FAs still need to be shuttled back and forth to support the LAS operation. FAs have luggage. Its required by the company to perform the job. When they deadhead, it goes with them. Period. The policy for Deadheaders to board is to go on before boarding commences if they are present at the gate.

A few last notes; don't wait until after the fact to object and then complain, speak up while its happening and give the employees the opportunity to do the right thing. It dosen't sound like CMK10 said anything when the agent came for the pilot.
Many Professional FAs like to acknowledge Elite in Y, however, we have been told repeatedly by mgmnt not to give you comp drinks or headsets, etc.
And, finally, those A&B cards are like gold to us. They are pretty much the reason I work in FC and do things like introduce myself, call you by your name, offer a selection of tidbits on short hauls, and help the ladies with their bags. When you have a FA like this, PLEASE acknowledge them with the A&B!!

Lastly, thank you SOOOO much for your business and continued support. I love my job and want to keep it as long as possible. Repeat business travelers like you make it possible!

Thank you, Lifer, for an interesting and informative post. I look forward to reading more from your perspective.

Thank you very much Lifer, I don't know too much about flying America West, but as I now make my home in Tempe, I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot more of each other. I really appreciate you telling me what I did wrong, I'll be sure not to make the same mistake in the future.

Welcome to the Valley of the Sun! :cool:

I'm guessing in your scenario, you had a combination of a gate agent that was new/not trained well, and a FA who was new or does not usually work in F.

Happy Traveling! :D

Which brings us to...when departure time comes, you turn into a pumpkin. Gate agents are threatened with their jobs if they take even a minute delay, and they are pressured to close early. No way will anyone take even a minute to bump you up at departure time.



As a station manager, I'd like to extrapolate on this. I have my own staff who works our flights "above the wing" in (gates & tkt counter). However, we contract out ramp work to America West here. We have a close working relationship together and I have a good glimpse into their operation.

Regarding Lifer's quote here, you need to understand something with flight delays. There's the "FAA delay" which is tabluated after a flight is more than 15 minutes late. And there's your "company delay" which could be anything. Believe me, the company delay is no picnic.

For my airline, we report delays to the company after the delay exceeds 5 minutes. So, If our scheduled flight at 10:00am pushes back at 10:05am, I dont have to report anything. The times are put in that the flight departed at "10:05" but no one at the company really cares what the reason was. At 10:06, I have to file a report with an explanation of the delay. Its relatively minor, but its nice to know that a pax late through security can usually still make the flight without anyone getting chewed on.

Now, for America West, I know that they must report delays starting ONE MINUTE after scheduled departure time. Its a big deal, believe me. It gets sent to multiple parties, and they have to explain exactly what caused the delay, and how its going to be avoided in the future. Its a lot of hassle and time involved explaining why the flight pushed one minute late.

Furthermore, my friends at HP tell me that the times are calculated once the breaks are released. So the pilots cant "fudge" the times at all.

Adding insult to injury, they tell me that half the time, the plane gets to PHX and has to sit for 20 minutes waiting for a gate to open up anyways. So for a one minute delay, they go through this hassle, writing up reports, the passengers cant even tell its a minute late anyways. And they get to PHX and sit there. Not cool. :td:

So, that was rather lengthy, but I know you all love the insider information! :cool: The only point is that if you fly on lots of airlines over the years, you can probably figure out which ones are lenient on reporting short delays, and which ones act like the Gate Gestapo. If you gate agent is coming down the aisle to tell 19D that he can join the F class passengers because they had a no-show, your carrier probably isnt looking at minute-by-minute delays very closely. If you agent is making "final call" and shutting the door 10 minutes before departure, you bet they are intent on "on-time performance" more that almost anything.

Happy upgrading :)

Hello..

I recently was introduced to this forum...as a Flight attendant for the airlines. I wanted to give an "insiders" view to some of the comments made.

We do have what we call the "crew hauler" its to get the Phx based employees back home after working flights that end in Vegas. Mostly those flights that came in from a long east coast flight. TRUST me...after flying a 13hr duty day, if for some odd reason that a First class seat became available...I too would be honored to get that empty seat, but more than likely, it usually goes to a Elite member.

It is VERY rare that an employee even gets to sit in a F seat. In the days before we even had the walk up F upgrade purchases...we ocassionally would get a F seat while dead heading. If Non reving it would sometimes happen if we were dressed appropriately, this is a perk that we most never get to enjoy.

Imagine yourself as the airline employee...you work week after week serving our passengers... providing a service to get you from point A to point B. Picture yourself working the particular flight you are on day after day after day...dealing with the pressures for an "ON time" performance, having to deal with following FAR (Federal Aviation Regulations) carry on baggage issues..being snapped at by that someone who brings on more than the allotted 1plus 1 rule...or that Garment bag thats bulging at the seams.
The FC passengers acting like vultures for the overhead bins because each brought that huge computer bag and your rolllerboard (remember your NOT the only one on the AC be considerate to others) ..your FA offers you a pre departure bev and your too busy talking on your cell phone to even acknowledge their prescence even after they said hello to you at the boarding doorway as you walked by them ignoring as if they didnt even exist... consider having to prepare a beverage service for 150 passengers to be served in a fast 45min flight during summer turbulance, and they dont know what they want to drink when you reach their row...they ask for a "coke" and we say we have pepsi products...only to have the passenger next to them ask for a "coke" ...working under those extreme heat conditions..try wearing polyester and wool fabrics in an metal tube at sweltering temps over 110 degrees in the summer because the APU is inop and find you have sweat dripping in areas you wouldnt want anyone to know about . Dont forget having to deal with someone complaining because they didnt get a pillow (trust me you wouldnt want one if you knew how long they were on that aircraft that day or the prior passengers drool or hair attached, or knew they were on the floor) and paying a price of $99 rdtrp from coast to coast during the holidays.
Lets not forget the Buy on Board program that airlines may offer...we are only given so many meals to sell...its all based on prior sales...more than likely if your seated further back in the plane the odds that you may get the opportunity to buy something is slim...take responsiblity for yourself and BUY or BRING something with you..the FA doesnt want to get yelled at any more then we want to say we are out of meals...its NOT the FAs fault but the catering company that thought of this Meals for sale program.

As Flight attendants, we deal with numerous scenarios inflight on a daily basis...and the ONE time We get to sit in a F seat and feel a bit rewarded for our hard work...someone complains about it.

So next time you dont get your upgrade and you see an airline employee get an oppty for that First class seat..think about all those times they have paid their dues for it...They DESERVED it!

One last comment...if your an Elite member...if you have A&B cards give them to the FAs who provide you with a great service, if you are out of them...at least a simple THANKS to the FAs goes a long way...I dont know how many times I work First and have nothing but Elites sittng up there, and they walk off the AC without providing a simple thank you.

...


Thanks you very much for all that you do.

I for one don't know how FAs can put up with the "average" HP customer day in and day out and not be on a clock tower with a high power rifle at the end of the week.

It is VERY rare that an employee even gets to sit in a F seat. In the days before we even had the walk up F upgrade purchases...we ocassionally would get a F seat while dead heading. If Non reving it would sometimes happen if we were dressed appropriately, this is a perk that we most never get to enjoy.
One last comment...if your an Elite member...if you have A&B cards give them to the FAs who provide you with a great service, if you are out of them...at least a simple THANKS to the FAs goes a long way...I dont know how many times I work First and have nothing but Elites sittng up there, and they walk off the AC without providing a simple thank you.

As an HP employee, I never expect to be upgraded to first. I always travel dressed for first (company policy) and have my upgrade coupons available if the gate agent should ask. I do not loiter around the gate, disrupting the gate agents by asking if first is available. We all need to respect each other.

Regarding the A and B cards--by all means give them out to the inflights and airport employees that go "above and beyond". But don't forget about the Flight Fund or reservation agents on the telephones that provide you with the same level of service. They deserve it as well but don't get as much recognition as inflights/airport employees as they are not seen face to face.

Finally, you betcha the Elite members deserve those first class seats--they have earned them.

I thought I would chime in here as all these posts have been great to read. Regarding the A&B cards. For those who have given them out, for what reasons have you done so? I've had exceptional cases where the PAX assistance center not only switched my flight but fought to get me a F upgrade since my delayed/cancelled flight had me in F. I've had flight attendents actually squat next to me and my seat mate and ask us what we thought about the meals and what we thought about just about everything having to do with HP. A few other times the FA was just very attentive if I needed something and I don't think took more than 2 seconds to herself in the galley the entire 3 hour flight. But I would like to hear what other employees have done to deserve them. Also those who work for HP what would you consider going "above and beyond" that would earn you a A&B card.

Lance

Hello All - I just had to register. I too am an HP employee. I have been reading this site for about a year now. I didn't post because I am a flight attendant and I felt this was a frequent flyer board. Plus, it gave me alot of insight as to how the frequent flyers see us, the HP front line employees.

The reason that I finally had to post was because I am embarrassed by my fellow employees and the manner in which they have posted on this board.

We, as employees, are guaranteed nothing but a paycheck. Yes, we have great flight benefits. But again, its not a guarantee. First Class is not a guarantee. Most times when I non-rev I am just happy to have a seat! Its usually a middle seat too, in coach! UGH! But, it gets me where I am going.

I work First Class quite frequently and I know and appreciate the fact that frequent flyers are our bread and butter.

I hope that my fellow employees can appreciate my opinion and if they have something to say to me, please take it up with me on our AFA forum and not here in front of our passengers.

Regarding the A&B cards. For those who have given them out, for what reasons have you done so?
But I would like to hear what other employees have done to deserve them. Also those who work for HP what would you consider going "above and beyond" that would earn you a A&B card.

Lance

Hi Lance!
Good questions!
I also would like to know what motivates an Elite to hand out an A&B, as they are my primary motivation for working F.
Sometimes I feel like I've been the World's Greatest "Stewardess", and yet I come up empty, lots of Thank You's and Great Flights, which of course are gratifying to hear, but I'm always hoping for the little reward.
I realize many do not carry them, ("I'd give ya one a those little cards, but they're at home on my dresser..."), or have given their quarterly allotment away already.
But I'm always happy to hear suggestions from the regulars!
What would make a positive impression on you?

I, too, registered today to reply to this thread. I think for the most part HP FA's do a great job. I have had my share of unattentive, self indulgent FA as well, but for the most part they are few and far between. I give out A&B cards for FA's that refer to me by name, keep coach passengers behind the wall until all FC use the Lav, actually make several rounds during the flight to see to my needs and most importantly don't sit on their fanny for the whole flight (I travel almost exclusively BOS-LAS). I personally believe upgrades should go to FF first, as we are the bread and butter of the airline. Employees should be last on the list. I have another suggestion, as well....Goes back to a thread a while ago but anyway.....FC should be given the option of the meal in first or one of the BOB offerings. I have had the same meal in first for 2 years now. I like salad, but geez................ Thanks to all that provide GREAT info here. I have learned much over the last couple of years!

I. I give out A&B cards for FA's ... keep coach passengers behind the wall until all FC use the Lav,...

Oh, Paula, if only...
This irritates me to NO END!!!
(But you would never know it to see me grin like an idiot at that Y pax... :D )
This is such a HOT issue for us! Aside from the obvious FC customer service aspect, its a security issue as well. BUT, the company claimed last year that it was the number one complaint from pax-Not being allowed to use the FC lav. So they beat it into our heads that NO ONE may be denied access.
It was easier to keep them out when we had the curtains. After the curtains went, it started with, when the aisle to the back was blocked by the cart they could come up front, now its a free for all. We only try to keep them out of the galley and wait at the bulk head.
As far as making them wait till all FC has gone, its hard to know who in F has to go, unless they get out of their seat.
Personally, I try to stay out of the fight over the lav, and hate it when a pax drags me in the middle of this, or any other, issue they are having with another pax.
I've had Y pax get ALL in a huff when I asked them to let a FC pax go. I've had FC pax come at me ALL in a huff cuz they can't get a turn, and I had no idea they needed to go!
I've had pax from either class get in a snit when we have to keep them away or in their seats cuz the pilots are going!
As far as the company is concerned, it is not a FC lav. Its just the lav located in the front of the plane.
Most of us FAs, however, don't like to be charged with "protecting" the FD, and then have everyone traipsing on up towrds the FD door.

Sometimes I feel like I've been the World's Greatest "Stewardess", and yet I come up empty, lots of Thank You's and Great Flights, which of course are gratifying to hear, but I'm always hoping for the little reward.


OK, so this brings up a question for me.... As a lowly gold I don't get A&B cards to hand out. I've had a number of really nice flights with HP, but to date don't have any kind of immediate gratification to offer other than a "thank you."

What's appropriate? I could make my own A&B cards to hand to the FAs to be forwarded to management, but I'm not sure if that will accomplish anything. I could send an email or a letter every time I come across someone special. I could hand out Starbucks gift cards (although that may violate the "no tipping" policy).

Hi Andrew!
This is news to me! We are under the impression that all Elites got the A&Bs!
Bummer! No wonder its so hard to get them sometimes! I was saving up for some WN passes and came up 2 short, but was able to mooch from another FA.
On rare occasions, we get little "gifts" like candy. Just got a little box of Frango mint chocs 2 weeks ago for the whole crew to share.Very thoughtful, but certainly not expected. Many FA are perpetually dieting, too. (Not me!)
The company reccomends we do not eat anything given to us by a pax.
I use my common sense, this box was wrapped/sealed.

Actually, a quick positive feedback note thru email would be wonderful!
"Good" letters are so rare, and you can keep them in your file to counteract the "Hatemail". Everyone gets "Hatemail" eventually, cuz if its a non-specific complaint, (no name, just The flight attendant was rude) EVERYONE on the crew gets it in their file. And there are also the bogus complaints from pax who know they will get a travel cert., so they make stuff up.
You have write a response, see your sup, and it goes in your file to be held over your head ata alater date. :(

I, too, registered today to reply to this thread. I think for the most part HP FA's do a great job. I have had my share of unattentive, self indulgent FA as well, but for the most part they are few and far between. I give out A&B cards for FA's that refer to me by name, keep coach passengers behind the wall until all FC use the Lav, actually make several rounds during the flight to see to my needs and most importantly don't sit on their fanny for the whole flight (I travel almost exclusively BOS-LAS). I personally believe upgrades should go to FF first, as we are the bread and butter of the airline. Employees should be last on the list. I have another suggestion, as well....Goes back to a thread a while ago but anyway.....FC should be given the option of the meal in first or one of the BOB offerings. I have had the same meal in first for 2 years now. I like salad, but geez................ Thanks to all that provide GREAT info here. I have learned much over the last couple of years!

Paula, the meals in the main cabin are suppied by the catering company. AWA does not "own" them and therefore we cannot offer them as replacements for the FC meal... I don't know how many times I have had a FC pax ask for one and I have to tell them they have to purchase it.. You can imagine the looks I get! We as FA's have to purchase the food if we wish to eat.. there are so many times when we are late inbound that we don't have time to get off the plane and grab anything, not our fault we're late, but the company thinks we can carry enough food for a four day trip and keep it cool. I too wish AWA would change the menu more often...too many of you fly with us week after week and are given the same choices.
They say the squeaky wheel gets the oil so perhaps more of you should write to the company with your suggestions .. I appreciate the suggestions from all of you regarding the A&B's. I see a few areas where I need improvement!

Wow, folks. I have to say, this is one of the most interesting and insightful threads we've had on the HP board in, well, ever. This is clearly attributable to all of you who have taken the step out of the "shadows" and elected to participate in the conversation.

To those of you who are newly registered members, a big welcome. I hope you will continue to participate in the ongoing dialogue on this board. While a fair amout of the miles-earning strategy threads may not be of much interest to you, we talk about a lot of HP operational issues here, and your input is sincerely desired. It is so much more robust when we have informed opinioins, as opposed to those of us who just think our opinions are informed. ;)

Seriously, welcome Lifer, Purdue Flyer, Jettsetter2ORD, Pepsi Slinger and AWAFA320 and thank you for participating. I truly hope we see more of you.

To those of you still lurking out there -- jump in. As discussion boards go, I'm happy to say that this is a pretty friendly one.

Thanks you very much for all that you do.

I for one don't know how FAs can put up with the "average" HP customer day in and day out and not be on a clock tower with a high power rifle at the end of the week.

The "average" HP customer is a tough crowd. You got the priceline crowd flying in the back, the vacation package crowd getting drunk, and your elites spread all over the place. Compared to other airlines, I would say AWA gets a very diverse crowd.

That being said, AWA has to figure out a way to make this crowd fly on their airline more than the competition. It is rare to see AWA rank high in anything. AWA probably has the most inconsistent service of any airline I've flown. One flight will be outstanding, and then the flight home will be a complete dissapointment. I did a round trip to ATL a few weeks back. The flight out was great. I was in Y but the FA's were very attentive, the flight was on-time, and I was able to get a Turkey Sandwich for $5.

Coming home was another story. The flight was late inbound from Phoenix. I was stuck at a pay phone during boarding so I was one of the last on the plane (I know my fault). When I passed through the door they told me they were out of space and I'd have to check my bag. They asked where I was sitting. I figured no problem. After the door closed the FA came up to me with the gate check tag and scolded me in front of everyone for being late on the plane and trying to bring such a large bag. Mind you, people boarded behind me and I let them take my bag without a word. She went on for over a minute that I should have known better and I was being inconsiderate of the other passengers. Finally the guy next to me in the middle seat said "enough." It was really quite a sight. Turns out he was an employee!
The FA's did one quick drink service, BOB, and we never saw them again.

When I was getting off the plane, the first apologized to me for the behavior of her co-worker saying they had a long day. She alone corrected a very unhappy customer! She shouldn't have to do this.

AWA needs to figure out how to be a better airline on a consistent basis. Southwest is consistent. You know what you're getting, even if it isn't a lot. They are almost never rude and really have a good attitude. The few times I've been on jetblue it was similar to Southwest. Even struggling Independence Air offers really good customer service. AWA offers good customer service about half the time. You guys need to fix this.

Which brings us to Steve64...Not sure what your idea of the appropriate way for a middle seat pax to sit is. Also, I am wondering if you have different guidelines for pax wearing uniforms, vs pax not wearing uniforms.


Hi Lifer,

Welcome to FlyerTalk !

No, I don't have different guidelines for pax with/without uniforms.
I myself worked for AA for 19 years, most as a Gate Agent.

I don't think a middle seat person should sit "spread eagle". This gentelman's feet should go under the seat in front of him, not under the seat in front of me and the window passenger (we have feet and legs too !!). He wasn't a "person of size" so there was also no excuse have his elbow 6 inches across my chest. I don't think I'm being unreasonable here.

While I don't have different guidelines for employees, when in uniform you represent your carrier wether or not if you're on duty. So in that respect, I'm guilty of walking off the airplane with a little grudge against HP and not just an inconsiderate seatmate.

Steve

These cards do have serial numbes on them. Assuming that employees turn them in in a timely fasion, there's no reason FlightFund computer can't realize an Elite is running low so send a new batch !

I only bring this up cuz of my own "A&B spending habits"
I hoard them in the beginning of the year. It really takes exceptional service to earn one of mine since I think that maybe next week I'll encounter someone who deserves one even more...but I'll be out. So I end up with cards nearing their expiration date and passing out to anyone who smiles at me. I even gave 2 to a Res Agent who was non-revving in the seat next to me just because they were expiring (and we did have a nice un-biased discussion on the perceptions that airline employees and pax have of each other). I'm not saying my logic is correct, just it's how I think ... and I wouldn't think that way if I knew I'd be getting another set of cards.

How to earn one of my cards ?
Taking the time to look at the manifest and calling me by name will put you in the stratoshere !! A simple smile works miracles (yea, I know you work long hard days, but make the effort). And then just a little extra effort beyond the ordinary to show some common courtesy, respect and understanding that I've probably been on the road for a few days, tired and just want to get home.

Oh...
For the Elites. All of the above comments are a "2 way street" and apply to you too. Except I ain't gonna give you one of my A&B cards :)

Steve

Hi Steve!

The A&Bs are usually turned in the month after the expiration date on the card. It takes FOREVER to collect 8 or 10. And thats only if you consistantly work F. The 2004s expire at the end of Feb, and we have until the end of March to get them processed, so right now there is a mad scramble to beg, borrow, or steal if you need one or two.
I had 7, lost one, and mooched 2. For 8 I can get 2 RT fee-waived S/B tickets on WN (value $120).
Most try for 10. That'll get you 2 RT positive space HP tkts that you can use for yourself or anyone else. They payroll deduct the tax.
Before we turn them in, we can make a copy of them to put in our file, so its nice if you write something on there about how wonderful we were (wink).

Trust me, we wish you could have more, too!

Wow, this has to be the best thread I've read on here, except maybe the silver challenge thread that got me to elite status quickly last year.

I really struggle as to when to give these A&B cards out. Although I think "Jim" the GA in MSP for our PHX flight is getting one next time I see him. The guy runs C9 like clockwork and he is very deliberate about who is boarding when. Really good guy.


Kinda off topic here but those of you that work as FA for HP or know this, is the meal selection still front to back on east/north bound flights and back to front on west/southbound flights? Seems like some FAs make it up as they go along. Even had one start at D then move to A. Just wondering if they changed this or not.

Lance

Hi Lance!

Taking orders for meals is supposed to be like you said. Some FAs then switch to starting in the front to actually serve. Me, I serve in the same direction I took the orders.
Maybe someone was asleep, and that made it look like the FA was jumping around? I will never wake someone up, sleeping is the best thing you can do on the airplane!

PS Beverage-only flights are always front to back.

OK, so this brings up a question for me.... As a lowly gold I don't get A&B cards to hand out. I've had a number of really nice flights with HP, but to date don't have any kind of immediate gratification to offer other than a "thank you."

.
Every year I have always received A&Bs to hand out as a Silver and as a Gold.

Is it better to leave them blank or fill them out?I know employees like to sell them, ( market value about $20 ?)so would they prefer blank ones or do they want the comment area filled in?

Wow, folks. I have to say, this is one of the most interesting and insightful threads we've had on the HP board in, well, ever. This is clearly attributable to all of you who have taken the step out of the "shadows" and elected to participate in the conversation.

To those of you who are newly registered members, a big welcome. I hope you will continue to participate in the ongoing dialogue on this board. While a fair amout of the miles-earning strategy threads may not be of much interest to you, we talk about a lot of HP operational issues here, and your input is sincerely desired. It is so much more robust when we have informed opinioins, as opposed to those of us who just think our opinions are informed. ;)

Seriously, welcome Lifer, Purdue Flyer, Jettsetter2ORD, Pepsi Slinger and AWAFA320 and thank you for participating. I truly hope we see more of you.

To those of you still lurking out there -- jump in. As discussion boards go, I'm happy to say that this is a pretty friendly one.

Thank you for making us welcome to post here... it's always nice to have both sides of the story in any situation! We are all human, some days you're the one having the bad/long day and sometimes it's us. Sometimes it's completely out of our control. My attitude (and sometimes it's really hard) is to leave my personal life at the AC door. I don't know what went on in your life before you stepped on board but I can try to give you the best flight you've had that day! Thanks again for making us welcome and giving us some inside tips on how to do a better job and earn those A&B's!

Lifer,

Well yeah she did mix it up and the D-A thing isn't really that big of a deal. I've not seen a FA server back to front ever, just meal selection.

The FA last night on MSP to PHX 7pm flight actually started at the front workd back to us. When I mentioned the order she thought I was kidding. It was find as a few skipped their meal and I got the salad and not the pasta but heck if the meals are consistent so should the order of selection LOL.

Overall I think you guys do a great job. Nothing makes me happier than to see the same FA on the flight week after week (as long as he/she is a good one that is) and they remember what I drink and my meal selection at times too. That really impresses me and earns an A&B card anytime it happens.

Thanks to those of you who are insiders for all your insight. Hopefully being able to see both sides of the road will help us all with our expectations before, during and after the flight.

Lance

Every year I have always received A&Bs to hand out as a Silver and as a Gold.

Is it better to leave them blank or fill them out?I know employees like to sell them, ( market value about $20 ?)so would they prefer blank ones or do they want the comment area filled in?

I like it when Elites write something nice, because we make copies of them to go in our file before we turn them in.
It dosen't matter if they are blank or not when it comes to passing them to other FAs. They still work, even with someone else's name on them!
I have heard of some FAs buying/selling them, but most just give them or "borrow" (till they earn more to pay-back). $20 sounds a little high, tho.
I don't believe we are allowed to "sell" them, but I may be wrong about that.

I have a bunch of leftover 2004 A&B's. Since they don't have to be turned-in until the end of March, can I hand them out on my flights next week?

I haven't been real liberal with them in the past because I didn't realize that they held some actual value for the employees. It would be nice if FF would explain the program better in the annual elite packet. Like other posters, I appreciate being called by name, a friend smile, and not having the FA hide-out in the galley for the majority of the flight. Also, if relegated to Y, it is nice if the FA checks the manifest and recognizes the elites sitting in the back. I know I've read that the FAs are discouraged from doing it, but a complimentary drink is very much appreciated on those days that I don't get upgraded. After reading here how much the A&B's are appreciated, I will certainly be more quick to recognize good service with a certificate instead of just a "thank you" at the end of the flight. All in all, I must say that I've been very happy with the service on HP after switching over from WN & AA two years ago.

Hello...THANKS for allowing us FAs to "GET on BOARD" your web postings.

We agree that there are things that HP could do to keep it consistent with meals, service and even the operations. Maybe Mr Parker should consider reviewing what is said on this board..it could help our operations.

In regards to giving out A&Bs, its always nice to see a small remark written on them, for me its kind of like giving myself a pat on the back or gettting a high five! I suggest that if you get good service, the FA is attentive to your needs, I dont usually call F passengers by name, sometimes we do not even receive our final paperwork that prints out your name, and there are times when people are in F that have moved around you dont know who is actually who.

I have been given A&Bs for something as little as holding your coffee cup as your trying to get settled into your seat..to giving outstanding service, or finding your cell phone tucked into the seat and relocating it to you, or taking the time to visit with you and share a wonderful conversation.

First class meals...sometimes even to the FA we are embarrased in what we have to serve you...gone are the days where we had our signature service with the paper menu, hot towels, appetizer, salad, entree and those delicious ice cream pies or sundaes. All I can suggest is to write into the company and make suggestions to replace or rotate meals in a more timely manner. We have given the company our suggestions..sometimes they implement them, other times its usually a budget restriction.

I always enjoyin seeing familiar faces on my flight...and if I work the same flights, I usually will remember their beverage choice and if working first a meal service too.

For those who dont have A&Bs, and you would like to give us something in appreciation, a starbucks giftcard is a great idea. Its rare that we get little suprises, I usually give the working crew a box of Sees candy when I non-rev for the holidays...a nice little gesture to let them know you appreciate their hard work. If you know you have A&Bs at home, you can ask for the FAs name and C# and mail them to them, or your always welcome to write a letter to the company in appreciation. Its nice to open our mailbox at work and see a good letter from a pax, those letters go in our personal work file.

Lets keep the line of communication open...always good to hear positive feedback. I will keep in touch.

Jet :cool:

As the starter of this thread I'd like to say a few things. Firstly, thank you for everyone for your positive posts, I appreciate the fact that no one was nasty towards me or any of the other posters. Secondly, thank you to everyone who joined, I'm very proud to say it was my post who inspiried all these people to join this website. Lastly, thank you for all the wonderful additions to this board in that posts that were made, I have learned a lot about America West and I'm sure many others have too. My trip tommorow should be interesting, all PHX-LAS flights for the rest of the weekend are oversold.

These cards do have serial numbes on them. Assuming that employees turn them in in a timely fasion, there's no reason FlightFund computer can't realize an Elite is running low so send a new batch !

I only bring this up cuz of my own "A&B spending habits"
I hoard them in the beginning of the year. It really takes exceptional service to earn one of mine since I think that maybe next week I'll encounter someone who deserves one even more...but I'll be out. So I end up with cards nearing their expiration date and passing out to anyone who smiles at me. I even gave 2 to a Res Agent who was non-revving in the seat next to me just because they were expiring (and we did have a nice un-biased discussion on the perceptions that airline employees and pax have of each other). I'm not saying my logic is correct, just it's how I think ... and I wouldn't think that way if I knew I'd be getting another set of cards.

How to earn one of my cards ?
Taking the time to look at the manifest and calling me by name will put you in the stratoshere !! A simple smile works miracles (yea, I know you work long hard days, but make the effort). And then just a little extra effort beyond the ordinary to show some common courtesy, respect and understanding that I've probably been on the road for a few days, tired and just want to get home.

Oh...
For the Elites. All of the above comments are a "2 way street" and apply to you too. Except I ain't gonna give you one of my A&B cards :)

Steve

Steve:

I just want to explain why I don't use names on flights. I only work first class for two reasons, specifically because I like the customers and like to give them the best flight and attention I can, and two, that I take the security of the flight deck door very seriously. Because I have seen others not be so vigilent, I choose to do it myself.

I no longer refer to passengers by name. I am well-educated and read a lot, but I don't know everybody in the world, so If I say Hi, Mr. So-and-so, I may possibly be on your on a flight where you wanted to do some work, watch a movie, read a book, or just generally enjoy doing not much of anything. If I identify you I may take that ability away from you and now you may be having conversations you would not have chosen to have while onboard. It happened to me and I was very uncomfortable with what I had caused this certain passenger by identifying him. If you see my name tag on my apron or hear me introduce my self at the beginning of the flight, feel free to identify yourself in return and I will respond appropriately, since you have now made it clear I amy address you by name.

One funny aside of what happened a day I did not identify people. I saw working a fllight from STL to PHX and a man in 2C got into a quite conversation with me and I ascrtained he was one of the sons of Bill Bidwell, owner of the Arizona Cardinals football team. I kept his name to myself and as he exited the plane he gave me a very nice logo Cards Golf Shirt. The person sitting next to him, as he got off, asked who that man was and I told him. He said it was very wise to not identify either of them since the man next to him was a writer for Phoenix New Times, and they don't think too much of the Bidwell's. So, I appsolutely did the right thing where two adversaries both unknown to one another, were able to sit next to one another and enjoy the flight.

Finally, I am enjoying the civilized give-and-take here and may particiapte again. I love my work and I really do want to make my customers happy with the service and the ontime arrival to their destination.

Hi, first time reading and posting here. Thank you so much for welcoming fa's to your forum! I have learned a lot already.

A couple things I wanted to mention...the company has told us we are not allowed to comp elites in coach (headsets or liquor). I don't agree with this and have in the past went out of my way to recongnize our faithful travelers in coach, until I was written up. The letter is now in my file and will be used against me in the future if and when another disgruntled pax decides to write a letter about not having a pillow or blanket or being discouraged from using the f/c lav. Most f/a's would rather smear honey on themselves and walk into a hornets nest than be called in for a letter from a pax. The pax could be lying and just trying to get a free certificate but our supervisors act like the letter was handed to them on stone from Moses himself.

I used to like working first class and I pretty much kept coach from parading up to the lav, until I was written up for that too. So after 12 years of providing excellent service I now have 2 letters in my file to haunt me. Thankfully I have several great letters that help to offset this but it still hurts because I was not rude and was trying my best to provide great customer service. Anyway, enough of my sob story...but just wanted to make you aware that some things are out of our hands...(no comps in coach and f/c lav is for everybody)

As far as the upgrades go...I personally feel the elites should get them. I have been offered on the late flt from Vegas to Phx and decline. That flight has so many employees in uniform on it and I am really tired of the snide remarks and comments I have to endure while minding my own business in my seat. I do understand the bins get full and seeing all those employees makes people irate for some reason...but we can't help it we are there.

And last but not least...I want to say thank you for flying our airline...I love my job and because of pax like you were are still around! Thank you for your confidence in us and we appreciate you.

OK . . . I could be COMPLETELY wrong in my posting this.

But . . .

A few months ago, I believe there was another thread that discussed this issue. I have always been under the impression that it is in HP's pilots' contract that they are entitled to FC. When they must be transferred to another city to fly a route from there, the pilot is entitled to transportation to the city in First Class. I seem to remembered it being mentioned that it was in the pilots' contracts.

The thread was a while ago though, so I may be very, very wrong. Can anyone verify this?


(If I am wrong . . . then just ignore my post!)

I'm curious how many NRSA's have turned into revenue generating elites. I'm one of them. I'll be honest and say that I don't fly HP very often, but I snuck over here to hear how often silvers get upgraded... because if it was all of the time, I'd strongly consider switching my business.

However, following this thread, there are various issues that are common to all airlines. Being a reformed airline employee, I am sensitive to the workers' issues, and yet appreciate my elite benefits even more.

First off, upgrades. I worked for a United Express carrier. United's upgrade policy allows only a one cabin upgrade. They still fly three-cabin aircraft domestically on their bigger routes, so the upgrade rule is more than just "technicalities." United's NRSA policy is (or was at the time) "best cabin available when your name is called." Yeah, this meant I could sit in International F (on a domestic route) ahead of a 1K in coach. United also doesn't have unlimited domestic upgrades for all elites like CO/NW/HP do. They have a system similar to AA, where you have coupons earned based on miles flown and redeemed based on miles flown. Over on the UA board, it was not uncommon to hear elites screaming that employees are upgraded over paying pax who "wanted" to upgrade. Well, the issue was, did the paying pax have the ability to "support" their upgrade? United's upgrade policy was great for employees... I loved it, and enjoyed it. When you make $!0/hr, you cannot afford to purchase your company's premium product, ever. And by being able to have "the experience" you come to realize as an employee what makes good employees in F and what makes bad employees in F. Nonetheless, it's one way to reward employees who work very hard for very little compensation. I choose to fly NW for their domestic upgrade policy. It is much better for elites and much worse for their employees :)

Now, with regards to pilots, FA's, and whatnot getting upgrades over elites at the last minute, well, the other employee posters hit the nail on the head. There is SO MUCH pressure in this days and age to get flights out ON TIME. Our metric at United was ontime :00 or ON TIME, not one minute late. One minute meant a delay code and a carpet dance. In my work group, we could easily avoid the carpet dance and still take the delay, but the gate agents could not. Delaying a flight for pax issues, well, you may as well go out and shoot the gate agent.

So, there is tremendous pressure to get a flight out on time. If, at the time of boarding (this is common to most carriers I'm familiar with) F has checked in full, then that means F there are no more available seats to assign. HOWEVER, you are required to be present at the gate and onboard the aircraft 15 minutes prior to departure. At this time, those that are connecting, have checked in from home, or whatever, are required to be onboard or have their seats subject to cancellation. It is MUCH, MUCH easier for a gate agent to assign an open F seat to pax waiting in the gate area, be it elites, employees, or whatever than it is to wait until everybody on the aircraft has stowed their bags and then try to pull them up. I do not blame the GA's for this situation, it lies squarely with the company.

I really enjoy my elite status BECAUSE of my former NRSA travels. You see employees sit in front every once in awhile, but here's the more common scenario. First off, NRSA"s don't check bags. Period. The company doesn't prohibit it, but you're taking much bigger risks than revenue pax. Also, because of the dynamic travel situation, you really don't want to have bags to worry about. That means, they've got a little more to carry on board. Now, employees most often board last unless the gate agent kows they can hand out a bunch of seats. They get 23E in the back of the aircraft, they get full over head bins, and probably have to gate check a bag. A bag that they won't see again until it sits on the baggage claim belt. BTW, that was if they were lucky enough to get a seat on the airplane. Sometimes they don't. That's only if there weren't any significant delays or cancellations earlier in the day throwing off all of the good planning that was done.

With my elite status, what do I really appreciate? Besides the obvious (but chancy) F upgrades, I first and foremost like the ability to prereserve my choice seats. There *are* some good ones to be found in coach, and I know where they are. I take them. A close second is preboarding. It is *so* nice to know that you will have enough room in the overhead bins for your stuff. On board, in coach (or wherever), I don't need my ego stroked. I DON'T want to be called by name.

How much revenue elites generate depends on the hub. On the east coast, hubs probably generate more revenue per elite than on the west coast. How do I figure? On the west coast, significant portions of flights are high mileage flights to points east. LAX-DTW/ATL/CLE/CVG are all 2000 mile flights give or take. It doesn't take much to earn elite status if you fly from any major west coast city. I'm gathering the same is with HP. I read on this thread that silvers are a dime a dozen. Not surprised... PHX-East coast will rack up the miles very very quickly.

And yeah, those BS complaint letters do suck. One of the things I absolutely HATED about working for the airlines is that the employees' hands are tied. They can't do anything for the pax per company policy. Yet, when a pax complains about a company policy (perhaps just for the compensation they will get), the employee gets the blame. It probably takes 10 good letters to outway a negative letter. I'm not kidding. Some airlines act like they are always looking to fire people and will use any excuse they can get.

Anyway, like I said, having been on both sides of the fence makes me see the big picture. I know what's worth complaining about and when to complain about it. One difference for me, however, is I'm NOT a high yield pax and if they ever went to a yield system I'd be dead in the water. So, I take my perks on my cheap fares and get what I can for them.

This is for GotCalcio 4 - You are correct it is in the pilot's contract that they are entitled to a f/c seat when deadheading to another city BUT ONLY if there is one available. They are the last priority to be boarded for f/c and can only bump out non-revenue (employees/spouses/family).

As a UA and US flyer and poster, I have to admit that I am impressed with the number of HP employees that are posting here.

As US just announced closure of three of their US Clubs (LAX, SFO and PBI), I was looking around other FF programs to see what is going on. I have an inkling that there may be a acquisition in the works, but that is not based on ANYTHING factual.

FWIW, we have had the same lenghty discussions on other forums about the NON REV upgrade issue.

M

As US just announced closure of three of their US Clubs (LAX, SFO and PBI). . .

I wonder if this will bring back to life discussions of HP taking over the US LAX club. Somehow, in the current environment, I seriously doubt it. :(

As a UA and US flyer and poster, I have to admit that I am impressed with the number of HP employees that are posting here.



I am too! I am constantly amazed by some of the HP staff, and I wish I had enough A&Bs to give out to all of them. Unfortunately, I've found a kind word or a letter/call to FlightFund is all I could manage as I'd used them all up or left them at home.

One question for the HP FA's that came to join in this thread (^, btw): Do compliments called into FlightFund have any weight with management? I've done this a couple times when I wasn't near a computer, and didn't get it acknowleged even though I left my PNR, etc.

One question for the HP FA's that came to join in this thread (^, btw): Do compliments called into FlightFund have any weight with management? I've done this a couple times when I wasn't near a computer, and didn't get it acknowleged even though I left my PNR, etc.
I don't know for sure, but I would guess, no.
I have gotten A&Bs in my company mailbox that pax sent in at a later date.
I'm sure there must have been a note attached, but I never see it, only the A&B.
Inter-department communication is not so good.

I am too! I am constantly amazed by some of the HP staff, and I wish I had enough A&Bs to give out to all of them. Unfortunately, I've found a kind word or a letter/call to FlightFund is all I could manage as I'd used them all up or left them at home.

One question for the HP FA's that came to join in this thread (^, btw): Do compliments called into FlightFund have any weight with management? I've done this a couple times when I wasn't near a computer, and didn't get it acknowledged even though I left my PNR, etc.

Thanks for the kind words.

In a perfect world the answer would be yes. But, as Lifer said, sometimes communications go awry.

As has been alluded, no matter how good a FA you are you will get an occasional bad letter. Maybe you didn't quite click with that passenger, maybe you had an off day, etc. Anyway, I have found that an e-mail to Customer Relations does make it through the system to Inflight and they do get passed on to us with a small note of thanks from a supervisor. These can help you immensely when the occasional unhappy letter comes in and needs a response. The A&B's may not help you in this situation because I am not sure how well the comments are tracked once they are turned in for the positive space tickets.

I honestly like my work. Whether a passenger gives me an A&B, writes a quick note, or tells me "good flight" as they leave the plane, I am happy that I made their trip just a little bit better.

I wonder if this will bring back to life discussions of HP taking over the US LAX club. Somehow, in the current environment, I seriously doubt it. :(


That's the running theory over in the US forum. I don't know, for the life of me, why US refused to do any club sharing with HP in LAX or CO in PBI.

I am too! I am constantly amazed by some of the HP staff, and I wish I had enough A&Bs to give out to all of them. Unfortunately, I've found a kind word or a letter/call to FlightFund is all I could manage as I'd used them all up or left them at home.

One question for the HP FA's that came to join in this thread (^, btw): Do compliments called into FlightFund have any weight with management? I've done this a couple times when I wasn't near a computer, and didn't get it acknowleged even though I left my PNR, etc.


I appreciate your thoughtfulness. A very easy and simple way to acknowledge an employee is to go on the AWA website under Customer Relations and send an e-mail. If you are not near a computer I would definitely wait until you are, as these letters are tracked and forwarded. The letter is placed in the flight attendant's file. Usually, the majority of flight attendants who receive A&B's are the ones who work first class - because that is where those of you who get the A&B allotment usually sit. For those of us working in coach - we appreciate the time and trouble a passenger makes to forward a letter to our company. We may not be working first - but we are also trying to make our passenger's flight in coach a pleasant experience!

I am too! I am constantly amazed by some of the HP staff, and I wish I had enough A&Bs to give out to all of them. Unfortunately, I've found a kind word or a letter/call to FlightFund is all I could manage as I'd used them all up or left them at home.

One question for the HP FA's that came to join in this thread (^, btw): Do compliments called into FlightFund have any weight with management? I've done this a couple times when I wasn't near a computer, and didn't get it acknowleged even though I left my PNR, etc.

I have read with interest all the responses from awa employees. I am a 16yr employee that has worked in the flightfund service center almost all of my career.....I answer the phone at 6:00 am when our elite members call to "see if their upgrade" went through. I have received many letters of appreciation from elite members but rarely do they include a and b cards. I am shocked at the solicitation I am reading from flight attendants for these cards. They are great to get but there are many, many, deserving employees. Next time you feel a need to part with an a and b card...think about that gate agent that did go out of her way to get you your upgrade or those of us that rebook your last minute travel, find award seats for your vacation or personally watch your reservation for a last minute upgrade.

Exactly my point - the personnel that seem to benefit the most from A&B's are the one's that work first class..... for the rest of us......... we are still (hopefully) providing excellent customer service but are not acknowleged under the present system. I do not want to come across as a "whiner" but service in this industry goes beyond row 3 or 4. (First class cabin!) There are other customer service personnel that deal with passengers, whether it be the gate, ticket counter, flight fund or the coach flight attendent. That is why I am stressing - WRITE a letter if you have had a good experience - it will become a part of that person's file.

Exactly my point - the personnel that seem to benefit the most from A&B's are the one's that work first class..... for the rest of us......... we are still (hopefully) providing excellent customer service but are not acknowleged under the present system. I do not want to come across as a "whiner" but service in this industry goes beyond row 3 or 4. (First class cabin!) There are other customer service personnel that deal with passengers, whether it be the gate, ticket counter, flight fund or the coach flight attendent. That is why I am stressing - WRITE a letter if you have had a good experience - it will become a part of that person's file.

I agree with Sisbethe and Airbus Girl. About half or more of my A&B cards go to non-F FAs for this reason. You should have seen the face of a FA on a Mesa CRJ flight light up once when I gave one to her for dealing with a bunch of belligerant passengers. Many of mine go to gate agents who get me on flights that I am standing by for, or who deal with rude jerks who I don't think I could have handled without swearing or losing my cool.

You should have seen the faces of 2 coach FAs who my companion and I gifted with 2 A&Bs each even though we were in F. I ended up chatting with them for half an hour in the galley of an A320 on the way to PHX after being denied lav access up front due to the F FA not holding up the coach folks from going up front, so I went in back. We chatted about everything: about HP, jerk passengers, the future of the company, life, etc.

Anyway, it was patently obvious that the F FA was one of the rare folks who was a bit snobby and didn't pay much attention to the younger looking Golds in 2C & 2D, but was all over the suits in F in the attempt to get an A&B or something, and who seemed to have a bit of an attitude toward the more junior coach attendants. She was a bit... shocked after the two coach FAs came up and pointed us out and mentioned that they got 2 A&Bs each from her. Every 10 minutes she was hovering over us asking if we wanted more drinks, etc etc.

In conclusion, I hope my rambling commentary was meaningful, and helped convince folks to remember non-F FAs & other HP reps with those letters and whatnot.

To the employee lurkers on the board: I hope to see you all in the sky soon, I'll be the nerd tommorow in 1D "signing" his flyertalk handle in the HP Magazine, and reading biology journal articles the whole flight. ;)

Agtmuldr - You crack me up!! I would love to be on your flights! Note to self - usually (90%) of the time - the "junior coach" flight attendant is SENIOR on the crew! It does not mean that we don't like you all........ it's just that sometimes (always) it is easier to work in the back. That is what always gets me.......... the coach pax always appreciate what we do, say something great about the flight and how it was the best service ever and we never hear another word....... yet you kiss *** in first and you are awarded the A&B. I'l stick to coach - it is much more rewarding!!

I have read with interest all the responses from awa employees. I am a 16yr employee that has worked in the flightfund service center almost all of my career.....I answer the phone at 6:00 am when our elite members call to "see if their upgrade" went through. I have received many letters of appreciation from elite members but rarely do they include a and b cards. I am shocked at the solicitation I am reading from flight attendants for these cards. They are great to get but there are many, many, deserving employees. Next time you feel a need to part with an a and b card...think about that gate agent that did go out of her way to get you your upgrade or those of us that rebook your last minute travel, find award seats for your vacation or personally watch your reservation for a last minute upgrade.
As a fellow HP employee (5 years in res) I was happy to see a new Flight Fund agent that I know beaming from ear to ear because he got two A and B cards for his work on an elite member's reservation. These cards made his day and it showed.
So, Sisbethe is absolutely correct...As I said earlier, don't forget about the "behind the scenes" employee that you don't have face to face contact with when you hand out those valuable cards!

I figured I'd post this in a follow up. First things for every one who posted, especially those who joined just to post. After I got back to Phoenix, I wrote America West a letter outlining what had happened. I figured I'd get a form letter back in the mail, so I was quite suprised when I recieved a call from Flightfund Customer Service on Friday. The woman said that the gate agent had erred and that they'd looked into my flight and said three elites were left without upgrades and "that pilot should NOT have been upgraded". The woman asked if I had any future America West flights and when I said that I did, she told me to pick one, give her the confirmation number and she'd upgrade me right now for my troubles. Therefore I am not seated in 2A on my PHX-LAX flight next month. Kudos to HP for being so appologetic.

Wow! HP continues to impress me for being very customer focused.

This happens out of LAS to PHX quite a lot. The hoard of FA and Pilots board first, and fill up the overheads so you have to get on fast to find any space at all. That irks me the most, much more than them putting pilots up in First.

I rarely (if ever) see FA sitting in front, and only occasionally Pilots. There are some work rules with putting pilots up front, but I can't see that would apply on a deadhead run home at night. Even with all that said, if anyone should be happy, spoiled, and well taken care of at HP, it’s the pilots. I want them to love what they do and do it well, and if it pleases them to be in FC, than so be it. If this was happening on 5 hour flights I would be bummed and would change my tune, but on these 1 hour flights I can live with it.

I would like to see the FA’s gate check their bags, tho.

You're kidding, right? You want the Pilots to be happy as a bunch of clams but screw everyone else? Even to the point of the F/A's should be checking their bags? You're crazy.

Hopefully they'll fix this type of situation in the future.

The other day I sat across from a FA in first. The airbus was checked in full, so I'm curious if other elites got sent to the back.

Hopefully they'll fix this type of situation in the future.

The other day I sat across from a FA in first. The airbus was checked in full, so I'm curious if other elites got sent to the back.

Well I sat in the back of the bus (pun intended) today on a phx-cmh flight. I didn't any HP personnel in F, but F was apparently sold out by last Friday. Perhaps if HP had a decent elite program and had more than a 3 day window for plats, I would have (and other plats who also didn't make it up front) had a seat up front. Kudos to HP and their crappy "elite" program :rolleyes:

Well I sat in the back of the bus (pun intended) today on a phx-cmh flight. I didn't any HP personnel in F, but F was apparently sold out by last Friday. Perhaps if HP had a decent elite program and had more than a 3 day window for plats, I would have (and other plats who also didn't make it up front) had a seat up front. Kudos to HP and their crappy "elite" program :rolleyes:

I agree. I think it makes a lot more sense to GIVE the F seats away rather than sell them. It just makes better business sense.

I agree. I think it makes a lot more sense to GIVE the F seats away rather than sell them. It just makes better business sense.

I see your sarcasm but I am only saying HP continues to alienate their top tiered flyers--the most loyal group of customers HP has at the expense of squeezing "x" amount of revenue out of a few F seats. IMO I still think it sucks, and I'm at least entitled to said opinion.

It's like I almost wish HP would nix F all together so my decision to go elsewhere would be that easy.

I see your sarcasm but I am only saying HP continues to alienate their top tiered flyers--the most loyal group of customers HP has at the expense of squeezing "x" amount of revenue out of a few F seats. IMO I still think it sucks, and I'm at least entitled to said opinion.

It's like I almost wish HP would nix F all together so my decision to go elsewhere would be that easy.

Eliminating F all together wouldn't make me jump. I took a Southwest flight this morning from PHX-BUR. It makes you wish you were on AWA even on their worst day.

-no elite security line
-I had boarding group B from home and still ended up in a bad (middle) seat because it was already full with thru passengers.
-They only served orange juice. I thought this was strange but they told me it was standard for short morning flights.
-The other passengers (and trust me I'm not really a snob) were a step-down from AWA.

The only reason I took them is because I had to go to Burbank and the only choices on AWA were an early morning 7am flight or a 1020 am flight. I needed something in the middle and Southwest had a 830.

I think I'll get up earlier for the 7am RJ flight if I have to do this again next week.

Every so often, AWA flyers should fly Southwest, just to see how good we really have it. :)

Eliminating F all together wouldn't make me jump. I took a Southwest flight this morning from PHX-BUR. It makes you wish you were on AWA even on their worst day.

-no elite security line
-I had boarding group B from home and still ended up in a bad (middle) seat because it was already full with thru passengers.
-They only served orange juice. I thought this was strange but they told me it was standard for short morning flights.
-The other passengers (and trust me I'm not really a snob) were a step-down from AWA.

The only reason I took them is because I had to go to Burbank and the only choices on AWA were an early morning 7am flight or a 1020 am flight. I needed something in the middle and Southwest had a 830.

I think I'll get up earlier for the 7am RJ flight if I have to do this again next week.

Every so often, AWA flyers should fly Southwest, just to see how good we really have it. :)

I AGREE! Having to fly a WN flight SAN-PHX lately, boarding in group C ... etc etc., I can't imagine a more literal interpretation of the term "cattle herd". Though the FAs in WN are nice, but HP is starting to surpass them by a large margin. Let's just hope that the potential US merger (or lack of communication regarding) doesn't destroy some of the morale.

We have to get management to go give us the official word on these situations.

I don't think that will ever happen.

As evidence I offer the fact that no HP employee will let you audit their upgrade process. When they tell you there are others "ahead of you", you simply have to take their word for it. They won't let you verify that, for example, all the F passengers on your flight are paid, or Platinums (to your Gold). Anytime a decision process occurs "in secret" like this, you can bet the farm procedures aren't being followed.

The truth is, management wants the flexibility to do whatever is easiest to get the plane pushed. Getting the flight off is always going to take priority over giving an upgrade to the right person.