Northwest WorldPerks (Discontinued Program) - KE to Seoul for NW Plat

I have to make a short trip to Seoul the first week of April and find that pricing is more expensive than years past from SBN. Although I'm pretty mileage consious, since I have to drive to Chicago to get a good price, it seems bordeline silly to go ord-dtw-nrt-icn when KE runs non-stop. They also have the same low price for economy (just under $1k) for any day of the week, and any length stay (not the 6 days that NW makes you stay for a good price).
If the M class were still upgradeable, I'd do that, but without that option, J would be out of reach financially. I'm ready to give up the extra miles, but do I get any preferred seating at all from KE? nwa.com lists only "Elite recognition" from other Skyteam carriers, so that's fairly vague. I'm thinking I don't get anything, but I'm asking if anyone knows. With NW, I've had pretty good luck getting a seat with extra legroom on the NRT flights, but even that might not be available now, only a few weeks out. What about general travel observations for KE economy class? Can anyone share their experiences on this?
Thanks,
Johnnymustfly

If you don't mind smelling garlic on the passengers then KE is for you. Many flights, non-stops, new airplanes, etc. I would also check out some of the korean or asian travel agencies in chicago and LA as they can frequently get a discounted fare below sticker. You can't get credit for KE Q on NW (I think) and most of the super discounted travel agency stock does not get you NW miles.

As a NW PE you get to access the KE rooms at ICN which are very nice; you also get to go in the Morning Calm line at check in so that saves you a lot of waiting time.

I don't think you get any better seat selection as a NW PE but I could be wrong.

I would also check out the DL code shares that use KE metal, might be more expensive (i.e. sticker price not discounted) but it should get you DL miles. Otherwise sign up for KE Mileage plan.

KE doesn't assign coach seating until check-in, if I recall correctly. This is good for non-elites, I guess, because they have access to any seat, but not so good for you as PE because you have no priority in coach seating. At least I dont think you have any premium choice. Last year, without any NW status, I checked in early in LAX, and was given a exit row seat upon request.

Hi,

I just flew two weeks ago KE on a NW issued award ticket, LAX-ICN in Y, ICN-LAX in J on the return. If you are a Skyteam elite+, you can get advance seat assignment in Y by calling KE reservations. My friend who speaks Korean called for me (he is convinced they treat Korean speakers more kindly). Initially they wanted him to send in a copy of my elite card as they kept saying they could not "see" my status. Finally he talked them into doing it. No problem getting into the morning calm lounge in LA on the Y leg, they seemed to be familiar with the process by now.

As far as Y, it was fine. Legroom was comparable to other asian carriers, we were served dinner & breakfast, I had the western choices as I knew I was in for eating alot of Korean food with my friend when I got to Seoul. Food was fine, but they don't offer you soda unless you ask for it, and had to go get it vesus having it on the cart which for me is something I had never seen before.

J class on the otherhand is in my opinion not worth it, at least until they upgrade the seats which are planned for rollout throughout 2005. The current seats seemed no better than NW domestic first but with a footrest added. The food in J wasn't much better than the food in Y, just a little more and slightly better presentation. Service was fine, but from my limited experience and what I have read here on Flyertalk, not up to par with other Asian carriers.

One compliment though for KE is that they do a great job managing the boarding process. Both in LAX and ICN, they were very strict about making people wait until their turn is called. Disabled and families, then 1st class, then J & Skyteam elite, then Y by rows. There was a great crush of people, but it didn't result in anyone boarding any earlier than they were supposed to.

Probably more info than needed, but thought I'd type it up while it's still fresh in my mind :) .

Hi,
Thanks for all the great info. I'm now leaning towards taking NW, as I can get AZO-PUS under $1k, and get the exit row for sure as a Plat (the seats are available as of now), and of course get the extra EQMs.
It's still good to have the other info; I go once or twice a year and it'll come up again where I have to make a choice between NW and KE.
For anybody else's reference, I did check out the fare basis, and the $950 R/T ord-icn is "L" class if booked with KE, so 100% EQMS on NW, but maybe that would be lost with a consolidator fare, like dab said. Also, if you book the ORD-PUS from KE for $1050, the ICN-PUS legs are booked in Y, so 150% on those, although they are only 500 mile minimum credit segments. As I said before, KE doesn't care what days of the week you travel or how long you stay, so that's kind of nice. I stretched my trip out one day to meet NW's min., but that was probably better than the quick turnaround anyway.
Thanks again for the info.
Johnny
p.s. back in day when there actually were check-in agents, a fun thing for the easily amused (such as myself) to do was, when asked the standard "final destination today, sir?", was to look them right in the eye, and say with conviction "I'm a Seoul man".

The current seats seemed no better than NW domestic first but with a footrest added.

Some domestic FC have footrests. (757's spring to mind). Also some airbuses, 319 or 320.

As a NW Plat on Korean I don't get much extra treatment at all.

If safety is an issue (I lost a relative on a major carrier) remember the KE must be close to the bottom. At one time DL (2002?) had to break their code share as the FAA was (or actually had-can't remember, sorry) threatening to ban their US landing rights. Problem solved after a manditory hiring of foreign senior pilots (lots of Auzzies) but I can't say that I have the same level of confidence on them as NW. Their large jets are often used on short cycle ICN-PUS contrary to Boeings reccomendation which tends to age them quickly.

As for comfort I think the pitch is actually smaller in Y on the KE equipment although I haven't actually measured it. Many Asian carriers (even CO Air Micronesia) decrease the pitch for planes serving in the Asian market.

To be honest the KE flights tend to have more "infrequent" flyers who do discourteous things like using your seat as a wedge to get them up, getting their luggage out of the overhead bins while on taxi, and ringing the "flight attendant call button". Sometimes this bothers me and I wish I was on the NW flight.

Some Probs with NW is that after the '97 crisis NW withdrew a Seoul - Narita flight so it can be difficult getting space on the ICN-NRT rout in ANY class. Sometime I hop down to Pusan to get the space open to get back to the US..
Also for any flight irregularity expect minor chaos at KE and more discipline from the NW people.

For a point of reference if NW is reading their management at ICN in the mid and Senior level is poor at best and often incompetent. I had to help explain the law to the NW Duty Manager about blind person was being refused to let their smallish seeing eye dog on the plane....anyway hope it helps

J class on the otherhand is in my opinion not worth it, at least until they upgrade the seats which are planned for rollout throughout 2005.


Thanks. appreciate the feedback.

I'm counting on the upgrade being complete by January 2006. I'll monitor this closely and continue to watch to see if NW A330 WBC seats open up in the meantime.

As a NW Plat on Korean I don't get much extra treatment at all.

If safety is an issue (I lost a relative on a major carrier) remember the KE must be close to the bottom. At one time DL (2002?) had to break their code share as the FAA was (or actually had-can't remember, sorry) threatening to ban their US landing rights. Problem solved after a manditory hiring of foreign senior pilots (lots of Auzzies)
You're definitely right that they were in trouble with the FAA, but from my recollection that was back in the late 90s, and DL started up their code-shares with them again about 3-4 years ago. DL was involved in their revamp of safety procedures, and now junior pilots are encouraged to actually contradict senior pilots, which apparently was the cause of the GUM crash in the late 90s.
They haven't crashed for several years, in which time some US carriers have..... But what their (deserved) bad reputation got them was this: Now, in 2005, with the same safety ratings as US carriers, if KE crashes, people will still say, "See, KE is so dangerous".... while after an AA or UA crash, that is probably not said, to the best of my knowledge. So at least for me, I'd say the safety issue with KE is less prevalent now. But YMMV. :)

I have used KE for the domestic trips (to Pusan, Daegu) for years and have noticed they have at slowed down on using the big jets. I was amazed and very happy the first time I took a SEL-PUS and found it was on a 747. Didn't know it was bad for the jets, and I liked the great ride. Lately, they've been using 757s on the flights, so maybe they've made that change for safety. Anyway, I booked the NW flight to PUS (I had to go there anyway), and got good seats on all the flights. PUS-SEL is now $141 R/T, unrestricted, so it's pretty easy to come in and out of Pusan if you get better availability there. Pre-97, NW also used to have a DTW-SEL, but that left and never came back.

see:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412021

I have used KE for the domestic trips (to Pusan, Daegu) for years and have noticed they have at slowed down on using the big jets. I was amazed and very happy the first time I took a SEL-PUS and found it was on a 747. Didn't know it was bad for the jets, and I liked the great ride. Lately, they've been using 757s on the flights, so maybe they've made that change for safety

FWIW, they are mostly using 739's on these routes now. I think there may be a couple of larger Airbus planes on a few high-density routes, but it can't be any worse on the planes than Delta's ATL-Florida runs.

Any update of plane equipment upgrades, Chicago to ICN... adding the new at seat video systems?

Any update of plane equipment upgrades, Chicago to ICN... adding the new at seat video systems?

That question seems to pop up in the Asian forum quite often from what I can gather. This is the latest thread on it:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=403783

I think the general consensus is that Y will get PTV's when hell freezes over :D

I knew I had it somewhere on the computer...


Thanks for the details! It's nice we "agree" that KE, in the last 4 years, hasn't had any pax fatalities, and seems to be getting better. :p

Actually, I didn't realize the extent of the KE crashes in the late 90s. Yikes! But something good must have happened for there to be no crashes since 2001, when DL came in. And they have flown hundreds of flights a day, for more than 1300 days, with no accidents involving pax. Does that mean there won't be another one? No, but I don't think it's a dire danger to get on one of their planes or anything.
No, KE is by no means perfect (based on the DL safety guy's quotes--thanks again Attila), but since DL was put in charge of maintenance, things HAVE improved markedly.
So it's not the disaster it used to be, but if there is a crash (as opposed to at US carriers, which are avidly cutting staff while increasing ASMs), it'll probably be seen as happening because KE is "dangerous", (mostly based on past crashes), while if it's a US carrier, any crash will be seen as a fluke.
Living in Japan in the 90s, I was well aware of how scary it was to fly KE and CI, reminded dozens of times by Japanese friends not to fly them, as well as GA, which had a major fiery crash in NGO.
I'm not trying to get anyone excited, but how many years of crash-free flying does an airline need to have before they can outlive their reputation as "dangerous"? I don't think KE Is out of the woods yet in that regard, and CI has even longer to go, based on what some of my Taiwanese friends say, even though they have poured a ton of money into A/C upgrades, etc. A picture of a crash site is seared into my mind for a quite a while.

On a recent trip I had a DCA-ATL-LAX routing on DL followed by a LAX-ICN-SIN routing on KE. Landing at ATL was delayed, causing me to miss the ATL-LAX flight. They were unable to get me to LAX before noon the next day, so I cancelled the meeting and flew ATL-ICN in the morning.

I must admit I was disappointed in the service. I had a business-class ticket, and when I changed my routing I had to buy in the front of the plane -- it was also called "business class," but had slightly wider seats with a bigger pitch. I dunno what codes they use for it. They don't call it "first class."

I sit down, FA asks what I'd like to drink. I request champagne. She scurries away for a few moments, then returns to say they aren't allowed to serve alcohol before takeoff -- some US law. What!

I order the Korean meal. FA is surprised that an American would do this, and doubly surprised when I know how to eat the food and use chopsticks.

The better-business-class chair was pretty awful. Hard, not too many positions, and not flat -- which for a 15.5 hour flight becomes unfun.

Not sure if this is all representative of KE or just this particular flight, but I think I'll stick with NW...