US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - First CLass Downgrade DL Too!!l

This is from a tread on the Delta Fourm. Delta is following US in the down grade of First Class:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------DELTA

• First Class Service – Continuing to offer traditional meals on flights over 1,550 miles, as well as in specific strategic markets (ATL-LGA-ATL; ATL-JFK-ATL; ATL-BOS-ATL;CVG-BOS-CVG)
• Beverage and wine glasses – FC glassware will be replaced with cost effective heavy gauge plastic-ware, which will simplify catering and improve productivity and reliability
• Paper Coffee Cups– Are a practical, cost-effective replacement for china mugs
• Linens – Will be discontinued and replaced with newlydesigned, stylish, branded, non-slip paper liners minimizing handling and eliminating laundering charges

I don't like the downgrade but seems that everyone is doing it.

I posted this in another thread yesterday but it is better that you started a new thread all together as mine was kind of off topic.

I have been saying this a long time. All the airliners are going to have to do it eventually. US Airways was and is the first in line to do all of this because of them being shortest on cash.

It will happen to the rest of them as well. Give it time.

All the airlines are looking at US right now and like many of the doom and gloomers and the professional experts out there who have said US will be dead X amount of times. The other airlines are learning from US Airways on what to cut.

Well, for once US seems to be a leader, and not a follower. Unless HP did it first.

At least DL still offers real meals in F on longer domestic flights, which US does not. I imagine that the only reason they're still going to serve food on ATL-NYC is that AA is starting up this route soon, presumably with meals as AA serves food in F on anything over an hour and 30 minutes block time at "traditional meal windows."

Give them time Wahooflyer. As they burn cash (which is more than any other carrier right at the moment.) Eventually they will cut that service as well.

They already have taken away the pillows and blankets on DL (I read it some where) as well as AA pillows.

Give them time Wahooflyer. As they burn cash (which is more than any other carrier right at the moment.) Eventually they will cut that service as well.

They already have taken away the pillows and blankets on DL (I read it some where) as well as AA pillows.
Pillows will be gone on DL as well as AA, but blankets are staying.

At least DL still offers real meals in F on longer domestic flights, which US does not. I imagine that the only reason they're still going to serve food on ATL-NYC is that AA is starting up this route soon, presumably with meals as AA serves food in F on anything over an hour and 30 minutes block time at "traditional meal windows."


Not really... the only market (within the continental US) that Delta provides good meals in First Class is the JFK - ATL - JFK market. Last month I flew ATL - LAX, and for lunch, there was not even a choice of meals. The meal included a tiny, disgusting salad and a tiny piece of mystery sweet, I couldn't even tell you what the entree was. Awful.

It's sad that the US airlines are having to do this. Luckily, Continental still serves meals, even in Coach Class, but the problem with them is that its frequent flyer program is probably the worst.

Well, for once US seems to be a leader, and not a follower. Unless HP did it first.

Sorry. US isn't the leader. HP did it long before US.

Was HP ever a true legacy carrier? I am not even sure.

Sorry. US isn't the leader. HP did it long before US.


Hey now! Let's give HP some credit. They've brought back a lot of the things they had cut, and you can even find glassware on a random flight or two.

US F is the worst out there, hands down.


I don't think HP ever was a true "legacy carrier." Although founded as a low fare airline, by the time they hit major-airline status, they quickly became like the others, yet still called themselves a "low fare" airline. Then 2002 came and they woke up, and fixed the mess they had over there. 21 years really doesn't make them a legacy carrier.

Sorry. US isn't the leader. HP did it long before US.


Then US is the leader in this because no other legacy has done what US is doing and becoming a LCC.

Then US is the leader in this because no other legacy has done what US is doing and becoming a LCC.

Actually, Air Canada did and is now on track to making $1.6 billion in profit this year.

AC is now an LCC???

But that is some very good news to hear for a change! Glad to see they made it.

AC is now an LCC???

But that is some very good news to hear for a change! Glad to see they made it.

They are a hybrid legacy/LCC essentially what US is trying to do.

As a PLT on Delta I was really beginning to enjoying being treated with class on a DL flight. My biggest gripe is I can no longer use this as an argument with the folks in CCY. :D I just know that I'm going to be reminded of this in a future conversation.

So now that I'm top level on two airlines I wonder which program I can join and ruin next. Sometimes I feel they really are out to get me.. ..... :p

As a PLT on Delta I was really beginning to enjoying being treated with class on a DL flight. My biggest gripe is I can no longer use this as an argument with the folks in CCY. :D I just know that I'm going to be reminded of this in a future conversation.

So now that I'm top level on two airlines I wonder which program I can join and ruin next. Sometimes I feel they really are out to get me.. ..... :p

Would you mind trying SWA? :D

Would you mind trying SWA? :D


Brava!!!

Would you mind trying SWA? :D
Gotta love it. Thanks for the laugh.

But no, there are no big brown buses (i'm being nice) in my future.

Would you mind trying SWA? :D
I am still laughing :D :D :D

Gotta love it. Thanks for the laugh.

But no, there are no big brown buses (i'm being nice) in my future.


Please do it for the rest of us! :D

As a PLT on Delta I was really beginning to enjoying being treated with class on a DL flight. My biggest gripe is I can no longer use this as an argument with the folks in CCY. :D


You can always argue Simplifares vs. BlowFares.

Ok,

I and I am sure other have suggested the same thing on here. Why can't we go back to the old way of having hot meals however this time the customer pay for it.

This is how it would work.

When a person orders their flight either via US Airways or 800 reservations they are given a choice if they want food. Let's say the choices are beef, chicken or pasta (this is in coach.) As the person is going through the process of purchasing their ticket they are asked if they would like to buy a meal using their CC. Boom, done it is attached to the reservation. Now anyone doing the phone reservation can either have it done right then and there or you could be able to call in at least 24 hours in advance to make sure your order is in.

Now I know the FA have a manifest of who is sitting where on flights (first and in coach). Why can't the vendors IE: Sky chef have a copy of this. They would have this in the cart and ready. The food would be placed in the cart so that as the FA is walking toward the back of the plane as she is hading out the food it is in ORDER with the seats. That way the FA's are not going all over the cabin trying to figure out who is sitting where. Yes there are a few people with last minute seat assignments and probably would have to ring their call buttons. All of the chicken, beef and pasta packs would have the persons name and seat assignment. If a person were to change their seat assignment XX amount of hours before their flight it would be attached to the reservation and sky chef or who ever would have the correct manifest.

I am not sure how long before a flight actually takes off before the load up those carts. I can't imagine it is too long.

And as for first class the same policy would hold except of course much better food.

How much would you pay for such a service? If they airline charged exactly how much it would cost to do this and pass to this to the customer then great. The airline may not make ANY money doing this but they won't lose any either. And they have a happy customer as well. If a flight cancels or a person has to go on another flight with a different carrier they would receive a credit in their DM account. HECK you could even use miles to pay for food!

The cost of ordering the food would be non-refundable after say within 24 hours of the flights actual take off.

As long as the food was attached some how to the persons reservation. It should not get lost.

I would say this would be good for flights 2 hours or more.

I would be all for a plan like that. However, I can well imagine that if I were an Airline Exec, I'd see things a little differently.

1.) If the industry as a whole is quickly morphing away from full service F anyway (see DL announcement, etc, etc, etc), then the expectation on the part of the consumer is significantly diminished. Why, with all the issues that US already has, would they be willing to stick their neck out on something like this?

2.) Given US's operational fiasco in PHL, I can tell you I, for one, have misconnected there as many times as not in the past 6 months -- due almost entirely to Mesa issues. If my F meal had been reserved and made for me and I misconnect, surely US would have to "eat" it. That means we both lose.

3.) In an environment of asking all employees to do more with less, a selective, pre-reserved meal option could only add frustration and complexity to an already overwhelmed network. I can see this becoming a royal mess within days of launch.

4.) What to do when a customer who has paid for a meal finds it to be unacceptable or not to his/her liking? Would there be an avenue for refunds? If so, on the spot, or would something need to be mailed in to Winston-Salem, etc, etc. What a nightmare that would be. Heretofore, if a passenger hated their meal in F, they just dealt with it since the cost was built into the fare. Under this proposal, it would be an incremental add on cost borne by the passenger who would reserve the right to demand a refund should the quality of the offering not pass muster.

For these reasons, and others, I am certain we'll see no such program coming from US. (Which is not to say I wouldn't like it!!!)

4.) What to do when a customer who has paid for a meal finds it to be unacceptable or not to his/her liking? Would there be an avenue for refunds? If so, on the spot, or would something need to be mailed in to Winston-Salem, etc, etc. What a nightmare that would be. Heretofore, if a passenger hated their meal in F, they just dealt with it since the cost was built into the fare. Under this proposal, it would be an incremental add on cost borne by the passenger who would reserve the right to demand a refund should the quality of the offering not pass muster.

If the customer did not like his/her meal it would still be non refundable. They would know all of this BEFORE they ordered it. Unless of course of the mis-connect.

It would be the standard chicken, beef or pasta meals like I have said. We have all had them and know what to expect.

I am sure they could do a trial test of this on certain flights and work out some kind of system so things would work smoothly so the FA's were not so crazy ect, ect.

Even at best I have found even with the best airlines in F class that the food was OK. You can't compare it to a 5 star restaurant. There are two things we American's love to do the most. EAT AND COMPLAIN. With out them we would not be happy.

I would rather bring my own food on board. Maybe the FA if you asked nicely will heat it up for you in the galley if it needed heating. I have actually done this when I bring pizza on board some times. Once I brought on a dozen KK's and said if you heat this up for about a minute you FA's can have some as well...they ran to the galley in no time :D

If the customer did not like his/her meal it would still be non refundable. :D

This, alone, renders the plan non-workable. Personal taste is one thing; unacceptable quality is another. There would be no definitive way to discern b/t the two from an oversight perspective.

Add to all of this:

I'm usually disappointed but understanding when someone takes an amenity away because of cost reasons. I don't like the absence of whatever it is, but I'm nice about it.

However, when something that used to be free is now a revenue item, I get incensed. It's one thing to take away, but another thing entirely to take away and then only give back in exchange for money.

This, alone, renders the plan non-workable. Personal taste is one thing; unacceptable quality is another. There would be no definitive way to discern b/t the two from an oversight perspective.


My point is that First class and coach first was never QUALITY food. It was simply OK. If anyone thinks that airline food is like a 3 or 4 Star restaurant then you really need to get the head examined.

Maybe all the airlines are better off taking away the food to save them money. You can't win. You want food but you want it for free and a cheap ticket. I can see how CEO's get so frustrated.

Airline tickets have gone down since the 90's and everything else is going up.

Guess the best thing to do is pack your own lunch.

UA, CO, NW and AA are not there yet. But they will be eventually.

My gut feeling is US will pull through all this. There are way too many investors coming in and looking at investing in US Airways. UA still does not have anyone and DL is not bleeding, they are gushing money.

It will be not too long from now when the LCC's really start coming after the trans Atlantic and Pacific markets. CO already has a 757 that goes to Europe. And I believe that some of the later 737 (either 800 or 900...some of you all know) can go across the Atlantic and back. It's only a matter of time before Easy Jet, South West and the others get ready to start looking at those markets. And when they do enter, Say bye bye to free food, ect.

I flew on Easy Jet in January from London to Barcelona for 14 POUNDS!!! One way. They had NEW Airbuses (I was on a A320) and they had food and drinks for sale.

Spain Air in it's coach class you have to pay for ALL drinks. (this is between MAD and BCN. I am not sure about the other cities.)

The sad part about this is yes the Legacies charged a bit more but you got more for flying. Free food, ect, ect. Soon the LCC's will take over or the legacies are going to have to adapt like an LCC. Once this shake out has occurred either A) Prices will go back and and we will still have nothing when we fly or B) New LCC's will invade the market.

It's not really going to matter much if 2 big carriers fail or not. Seems like there are new start up airlines popping up everyday now. Who ever thought HQQTERS Air would have taken off?????

It's really a shame how the airline industry is changing. Everyone (at least the majority) wants a cheap fare. Well cheap fare=Cheap Airline.

And what about the customer who paid full F for his ticket? If I were paying a full F BlowFare, I would not take kindly to being told I had to purchase a hot meal in addition to to the $2,000 I paid for the privelege of sitting in F. Then again, I wouldn't take kindly to being handed a boxed lunch, either. ;) Of course, since I never pay for F with anything other than US20's, I can't complain.

I can agree with the IFC cuisine working in a GoFares world where $500 can buy your way into the F cabin, but not when they're selling F tickets for 10X or 20X the roachiest of roach fares.

Order-in-advance food will not work, and the reason is that there are significant economies of scale involved in giving everyone a meal.

Buy-on-board doesn't have as much economy of scale as free meals for everyone, but it's still pretty efficient, because you stock each flight the same way but with a lower quantity (since more people will take a free meal but not pay for one). Either way, the key to its success is the fact that the meals are distributed in flight. In flight, they're plenty of time to ask people what they want and then go get it, one meal at a time. The downside is that you might not get your choice, but most people understand that.

With order-in-advance, each and every meal has to be put together individually, with each passenger's name on it, and then delivered to the plane. That is essentially moving the time spent distributing meals in flight down to the airport, where time is expensive.

Delivering meals to an airplane is more expensive than doing so in a restaurant. You can't just deliver food to a plane whenever the food is done, because the plane won't arrive early if you are, and (usually) it won't wait around until you're ready. Everything has to be prepared well in advance and delivered as quickly as possible, hence the economies of scale being practically necessary rather than desired.

If you were to charge the passenger for the cost of delivering a meal to a plane with an exact count of each type, fewer people would buy it, because it would cost $15 or so. Since most of the cost of providing in-flight meals is fixed (similar to the flight itself), when fewer people buy, the average cost per order goes up, and the whole thing will implode.

It might work if you only provide one choice, because then it's similar to baggage service (i.e., works most of the time :rolleyes: ). When you add meal choices, which is really the only reasonable thing to do, it would be like trying to transfer bags according to color or shape. It's just not workable when you need to have planes spend as little time on the ground as possible.


Order-in-advance food is really the same thing as special meals, except that you pay for it. I've never ordered a special meal, but from what I've read, the success rate with special meals is very bad, even on international flights where there's more time available before departure. If you had to pay for it, and fail to eat what you ordered too often, it would really turn people off, more so than providing no food at all.

I think order-in-advance food would work in coach as a variation of BOB but I think US would probably need to upgrade it's computer system to handle the data anaylsis that it would require.

If it was done in the following manner I think it would be very successful.

The caterer knows how many meals it plans on supplying each plane, in what mix of meals.

At the time of booking and checkin offer customers to purchase a BOB selections as a nonrefundable option.

Give the customer their meal choice and tie the choice to the record.

Since you know what the caterer was going to supply the plane, you deduct this purchase from the available inventory.

If the available inventory is sold out before the meals are prepared, the caterer or US (not sure who anymore decides how many meals to stock on the plane) can decide if they want to stock additional meals on the plane to be sold in flight. If their is a lot of meals that are unsold, they may decide to reduce the number of meals they are stocking on the flight.

If you preordered a meal, your selection would appear on the manifest. Any extras could be sold to anyone that did not preorder a meal or if you changed your mind and decided not to take the meal you paid for. In either case, it should be possible to collect enough data to minimize the waste that could result from stocking too much food on the plane and minimize the chance of someone not being able to purchase a meal if they really wanted one and got stuck in seat 20B. :)

This would require US's computer system to be able track inventory for meals in addition to seats, and then assign the meal to a PNR which would then have to print on the manifest. Additionally, all of this information would need to be able to be sent to the caterer so the proper mix can be loaded on the planes.

This eliminates the need to label every meal and since your working out of an inventory that was set before you started selling the meals you are still delivering the same mix of meals to the plane you were going to deliver before to just be sold on board.

Additionally since your selling out of an inventory, it is possible to always change the inventory if it becomes necessary depending on the loads. You would need to be able to look at the load of the plane, what percentage of the passengers purchased the meals, and what was already sold.

I think order-in-advance food would work in coach as a variation of BOB but I think US would probably need to upgrade it's computer system to handle the data anaylsis that it would require.

If it was done in the following manner I think it would be very successful.

The caterer knows how many meals it plans on supplying each plane, in what mix of meals.

At the time of booking and checkin offer customers to purchase a BOB selections as a nonrefundable option.

Give the customer their meal choice and tie the choice to the record.

Since you know what the caterer was going to supply the plane, you deduct this purchase from the available inventory.

If the available inventory is sold out before the meals are prepared, the caterer or US (not sure who anymore decides how many meals to stock on the plane) can decide if they want to stock additional meals on the plane to be sold in flight. If their is a lot of meals that are unsold, they may decide to reduce the number of meals they are stocking on the flight.

How is this any different from the current BOB? If you choose a meal at booking and it's not there on the plane because the available inventory sold out, now you've screwed someone out of a meal purchase since you made it non-refundable. :confused:

Loading additional meals 20 minutes beforehand is not possible unless you put the kitchen in the airport (very expensive), or you load extra meals that can be used for any flight in the airport (somewhat expensive but wasteful).

If you preordered a meal, your selection would appear on the manifest. Any extras could be sold to anyone that did not preorder a meal or if you changed your mind and decided not to take the meal you paid for. In either case, it should be possible to collect enough data to minimize the waste that could result from stocking too much food on the plane and minimize the chance of someone not being able to purchase a meal if they really wanted one and got stuck in seat 20B. :)

This would require US's computer system to be able track inventory for meals in addition to seats, and then assign the meal to a PNR which would then have to print on the manifest. Additionally, all of this information would need to be able to be sent to the caterer so the proper mix can be loaded on the planes.

This eliminates the need to label every meal and since your working out of an inventory that was set before you started selling the meals you are still delivering the same mix of meals to the plane you were going to deliver before to just be sold on board.

Additionally since your selling out of an inventory, it is possible to always change the inventory if it becomes necessary depending on the loads. You would need to be able to look at the load of the plane, what percentage of the passengers purchased the meals, and what was already sold.

Again, that's the same as BOB, except that you take people's money before the flight and won't give them a refund.

BOB and pre-pay BOB are no different in terms of the product that passengers will get. True order-in-advance is essentially restaurant service, and it won't work with scheduled airlines, only charter with some advance notice.

Even in international First Class, they don't ask you what you want to eat at check in. They load meals of a certain variety based on past surveys and then ask you what you want in flight.

How is this any different from the current BOB? If you choose a meal at booking and it's not there on the plane because the available inventory sold out, now you've screwed someone out of a meal purchase since you made it non-refundable. :confused:



You treat the current mix of meals like seats on an airplane. If you know your going to stock the plane with 10 of meal A and 10 of meal B. Every time someone purchases meal A at either check in or when making reservations you deduct that meal from the available inventory. So if have 10 of meal A available and purchase 1, I now have only 9 of meal A available to sell. All that has to happen to make sure I get the meal on the plane is that something has to appear on the manifest saying I already purchased meal A and the FA has to give me meal A. This would require inventory control of the meals, just like they do with seats now. This item however is one of those things that you don't want to oversell :)

Since you have to do inventory control of the meals if you run out of available inventory at a point in time before the meals have to assembled it is possible to increase or decrease the available inventory to better match the demand.

Depending on the computer system setup, you could do other things with the prepay BOB. Such as in the event of a reroute add and subtract the meal from each plane's inventory...put a condition in that if you are rerouted and it is not available you can get a refund. The only limits to implementing this are the amount of time and money that would need to be invested to make sure all of the systems talked together to do it.


True order-in-advance is essentially restaurant service, and it won't work with scheduled airlines, only charter with some advance notice.

However even in a restaurant, you have a limited selection of what is on a menu. In this case our menu consists of two items, well three if you count the snack box.


Even in international First Class, they don't ask you what you want to eat at check in. They load meals of a certain variety based on past surveys and then ask you what you want in flight.

They may not ask you at check in but some airlines do let you in Int. 1st preselect a meal, again it is a limited selection. SQ's Book the Cook (http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/app/saa?hidHeaderAction=onHeaderMenuClick&hidTopicArea=BooktheCook&currentSite=global) program comes to mind.

Wouldn't a much easier way be to sell a boxed (hot or cold) meal in the boarding area?

Wouldn't a much easier way be to sell a boxed (hot or cold) meal in the boarding area?

Probably, but the amateurs have a hard enough time boarding with their carry-ons. That would be one more thing for them to juggle while boarding and invariably 1/2 would wind up in the overhead....