America West FlightFund (Discontinued Program) - HP to HNL Q4 2005?

While sitting in 1A on a 737 from OAK to PHX, I was able to chat with the flight attendants and they were mentioning that their "over water" training is complete and that HP will be adding HNL to their route map again; making use of their HNL gate by Q4'2005.

It will be interesting to see how they price this... HA and ATA (code) fly directly to Hawaii from Phoenix.

That seems pretty fast... does anyone else have any insight on this topic?

This rumour has been batted around here a lot lately and the frequency of chatter like this has definitely increased (especially from flight crews).

From my observations the codeshare agreement with HA isn't exactly beneficial to HP since the fares are almost always MUCH better directly through HA (and HA's fares aren't that great to begin with). Assuming that the rumors are true then my question is ... with which planes? I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of ETOPS, but I do remember talking to an FA in 1999 who mentioned that they had been previously working to get their existing 752s ETOPS certified, but scrapped the plan a couple of years prior. I have noticed that some of the 752s have overwater equipment such as rafts. I have also heard that the current engines in the 752s are not appropriate for ETOPS certification.

I really do wish that HP would expand into some "prime" markets so as to make the miles that I'm rapidly accumulating worth something. I much prefer to purchase and upgrade tickets rather than booking straight awards that don't earn miles.

I was able to chat with the flight attendants and they were mentioning that their "over water" training is complete...


I think there is some confusion between you and the FA involving the use of the word "their". Yes, those particular FA's may have gone through the training, but there is no way in hell that HP is done with the ETOP's certification already.

Even CEO Parker has stated that they won't be done until around October or November.

I have also heard that the current engines in the 752s are not appropriate for ETOPS certification.

Totally not true. Since when are RR engines inappropriate for ETOPS? CO flies their RR equiped 752's transatlantic. They're the best engines you can get for a 752.

Totally not true. Since when are RR engines inappropriate for ETOPS? CO flies their RR equiped 752's transatlantic. They're the best engines you can get for a 752.

Cheerfully withdrawn. Like I said, I don't know the ins and outs of ETOPS, but at one point someone had commented that the 752s weren't able to be certified due to engine config.

There's some discussion here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=407331

What routes would HP likely add?

LAX-HNL is pretty saturated.
PHX-HNL has an ATA non-stop and HA non-stop.
SFO/SEA/PDX/LAS/OAK-HNL all have at least two non-stops on it.

Would they attempt to start up a non-stop PHX-HNL flight in direct competition with Hawaiian?

What routes would HP likely add?

LAX-HNL is pretty saturated.
PHX-HNL has an ATA non-stop and HA non-stop.
SFO/SEA/PDX/LAS/OAK-HNL all have at least two non-stops on it.

Would they attempt to start up a non-stop PHX-HNL flight in direct competition with Hawaiian?

and ATA!! ATA will actually be offering daily (or almost daily) flights from PHX to HNL and PHX to OGG this summer -- codesharing with WN here in PHX.

With 757's, HP could probably start two non-stops from PHX to HNL in the peak seasons -- and a night flight from LAS (similar to HA's new 2:45am flight).

I think HP almost certainly would serve HNL from PHX and LAS. Those are HP's hubs, and they'd have a natural advantage over TZ and HA.

The other rumors out there are that HP wants to get more ETOPS-certified 752s (HP would begin with only three initially), and also serve OGG.

It's not out of the question for HP to potentially add LAX at some point should they get more gates there. Remember, America West Vacations is one of the biggest tour packagers in the country. But my guess is Hawaii service will be limited to PHX and LAS for a while.

This is all talk. I have no doubt that HP wants to serve Hawaii and had plans to serve Hawaii, but with the competition in their markets from ATA/SW, HA and some connections via other airports, the market is saturated.

My prediction is that HP will instead look to serving somewhere additional in Mexico and possibly the Carribean in lieu of Hawaii

I am an HP employee. I was at an employee Q + A meeting with a member of the executive senior management back in Jan. He told us that HP was indeed working on getting some aircraft water certified and they expect to have Hawaii service by next year. He also said they were looking at Carribean routes but did not elaborate any further on that. Since then, ATA announced plans to have daily HNL/OGG service from PHX. Plus HA already having their daily service from PHX. One thing with being employed with the airline industry is that everything is always subject to change. With fuel prices expecting to climb again and more competition from ATA, I would not be surprised HP will postpone Hawaii service until market conditions,fuels prices, or ATA goes under. ATA like USAir is bankruptcy and is going through restructuring. They have already elimated or reduced frequencies on some routes. I think its just matter of timing before ATA goes under all together (although somehow USair is still hanging on with life support).So maybe their increased service to HI from PHX is their last effort to try to be profitable. They have very little market share left at MDW and IND (like HP's former CMH Hub) is not big enough or profitable enough to be a hub.

Hi there! I can tell you with utmost certainty that our EOW (ETOPS Over Water) Training for flight attendants begins the first week of April and continues through the end of October. Or so it stands as of this moment in time.

Now, what HP actually DOES with all of this - well, none of the f/a's know for sure - and don't let them tell you any different! We were hearing, as Skyfly said, some very positive things on Hawaii, but now that WN/ATA barged in (in a big way), well, who knows. The anticipated upcoming record fuel prices only add more uncertainty.

We've been hearing Belize rumors for over a year, but nothing concrete to date. And now, the word "Caribbean" is being whispered here and there.

We, much to our frustration, are usually the last to know! :mad: Probably because we don't keep secrets very well. :D

I won't contribute much to this forum unless asked; or unless I know something definitive. But let me add this: THANKS for your loyalty. ^

HP FA,

Let me be the first to welcome you to FlyerTalk. Please continue to lurk and/or contribute to this forum. We could definitely use more employee input here.


Also, please tell other HP employees who might be interested about this forum.

Here's the direct link.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=444

skyfly,

I am hoping that any Hawaii service HP is planning is being done in close coordination with HA. The only metal HP should be flying to HNL should be for connecting to HA's SYD flight.


I don't believe the value of HNL service outweighs the value of HA's partnership at this point.

skyfly,

. . . The only metal HP should be flying to HNL should be for connecting to HA's SYD flight. . .


If this offered such great opportunity, why wouldn't HA align their own flights to feed the SYD flight? :confused:

I don't believe that the HA HNL-SYD flight would drive HP's strategy. Keep in mind that a major reason the HA PHX-HNL flight leaves as late as it does (~11:00) and misses the SYD connection by a couple of hours is that they're waiting for the feeding passengers that come into PHX on HP's various first flights from around the country. Obviously those numbers are substantially larger than what they feel they could pick up for SYD if they left PHX three hours earlier, which they could easily do by shifting their in-bound flight by 90 minutes or so. Think about it, almost all of HA's west coast flights are timed to miss the SYD connection. You think HP would schedule their own flights, from their hubs and miss all the connecting passengers from their own feeders, to get to HNL three hours earlier, just to align with one HA flight to SYD? I'm thinking not.

HP would fly to HNL, and potentially other cities in Hawaii, from PHX and LAS because they see how many passengers they are currently feeding to HA, and believe they could draw even more from their network onto their own HNL/OGG flights.

If this offered such great opportunity, why wouldn't HA align their own flights to feed the SYD flight? :confused:

I don't believe that the HA HNL-SYD flight would drive HP's strategy. Keep in mind that a major reason the HA PHX-HNL flight leaves as late as it does (~11:00) and misses the SYD connection by a couple of hours is that they're waiting for the feeding passengers that come into PHX on HP's various first flights from around the country. Obviously those numbers are substantially larger than what they feel they could pick up for SYD if they left PHX three hours earlier, which they could easily do by shifting their in-bound flight by 90 minutes or so. Think about it, almost all of HA's west coast flights are timed to miss the SYD connection. You think HP would schedule their own flights, from their hubs and miss all the connecting passengers from their own feeders, to get to HNL three hours earlier, just to align with one HA flight to SYD? I'm thinking not.

HP would fly to HNL, and potentially other cities in Hawaii, from PHX and LAS because they see how many passengers they are currently feeding to HA, and believe they could draw even more from their network onto their own HNL/OGG flights.

Re the SYD connection, HA actually touts a "free" stopover in HNL on your way to Australia. Given that HA is primarily transporting leisure passengers on their Trans-Pacific flights, this could be viewed as a plus by the leisure traveler.

Re the SYD connection, HA actually touts a "free" stopover in HNL on your way to Australia. Given that HA is primarily transporting leisure passengers on their Trans-Pacific flights, this could be viewed as a plus by the leisure traveler.

Yes, they do, probably because they have to, given the few flights that line up with it. Interestingly, on HA award tickets you are not allowed a stopover. :(

I think doing that route with a HNL stopover each way would be a nice way to do it, especially given the seating situation on HA's 767s. It would break the trip into much more tolerable chunks of time.