America West FlightFund (Discontinued Program) - SFO-JFK non stop cancelled, rebooking quagmire

Months ago I booked 4 seats on american west non stop from sfo to jfk
am west just called and said that they cancelled that service and they no longer fly nonstop to new york
they booked me on a connecting flight
when I complained, they offered me a refund

If I book now on another airline, I'll pay at least 3 times what I did months ago
the original fare was $200 for 3\25 depart, 4\2 return
we really don't want to have to deplane and take a connecting flight

Plus, If I changed my plans I'd get nailed with a huge cancellation fee, yet they can cancel with impunity?
hardly seems fair.....

I'm on the phone with them now, have spoken with the regular CSR, then "quality management", then a supervisor, and am now hold for soemone else.....
what options do we have??

First off, its AMERICA West. Secondly, either take the refund or deal with a connection. Ya might be able to squeeze an extra $100 certificate out of them for the inconvienience but not much more. And hey, all the restrictions are clearly labeled when you book a fare. Good luck.

Unfortunately, I believe you are governed by the Contract of Carriage (http://www.americawest.com/aboutawa/customerfirst/DGR.pdf) that you "entered into" when you purchased the ticket. You may want to look through the document, but I believe that the only options are the ones that have been provided to you.

Bob

p.s. Changing planes in PHX is really not that bad. It usually breaks up the trip.

thanks guys for your replies
I've run all the way up the chain of command in reservations\sales.
Couldn't even wangle a comp to first class.
Will call customer service tomorrow.
1 option is to book UAL @ $306 (which I should've done to begin with), and file a complaint asking to be compensated for the difference.
Even if my complaint is successful, I'll probably only get a voucher, and considering how I'm being treated, I'm not sure I want to fly AMERICA west again...

What I'd really like to do is post that someone an AMERICA west stepped up and did the right thing for us.
I assume that I'm not the only one in this situation

thanks guys for your replies
I've run all the way up the chain of command in reservations\sales.
Couldn't even wangle a comp to first class.
Will call customer service tomorrow.
1 option is to book UAL @ $306 (which I should've done to begin with), and file a complaint asking to be compensated for the difference.
Even if my complaint is successful, I'll probably only get a voucher, and considering how I'm being treated, I'm not sure I want to fly AMERICA west again...

What I'd really like to do is post that someone an AMERICA west stepped up and did the right thing for us.
I assume that I'm not the only one in this situation

What can America West do to "step up" to the plate? You purchased a very inexpensive ticket from SFO to NYC. Since that time they made changes to their schedule. They call you and offer you transportation from SFO to JFK via their PHX/LAS hubs. If this option isn't convenient they offer to refund your money - no harm no foul.

You are not the only one in this situation. Should they offer every customer on these flights first class seats on the connecting service? Should they pay each customer to go buy a ticket on United?

I'm the first to complain when things are bad at America West, but you are being unreasonable here. They are in business to make money. The reason they stopped this route is because they were losing money selling all those $99 each way fares to JFK.

Now if you are an elite customer that flies AWA often, then they should look at the situation and offer some sort of voucher, club pass, drink coupons, etc...

There was a great editorial in the USA Today on Thursday about passenger expectations at a time when the industry is losing billions selling tickets below their costs. Granted we are only buying the tickets they are offering, but what makes you so special that you should be upgraded or sent a check to fly on another airline?

Granted we are only buying the tickets they are offering, but what makes you so special that you should be upgraded or sent a check to fly on another airline?

BECAUSE THEY AGREED TO FLY MY FAMILY NONSTOP 6 MONTHS AGO.

Why should they downgrade our tickets merely because they made a bad business decision in selling cheap tickets, and then cancelled their service because their plan didn't work out. They should have only scheduled flights for a few months if they weren't sure if their plan would work.
An airline with any commitment to customer service wouldn't dump us on a connecting flight, merely because they decided to cut their losses. Upgrading to 1st class costs them little, since they sell the upgrade at only $50.

"NOHARM NO FOUL", that's not true.
The flight is 2 hours longer, we have to deplane and run down the terminal to the next gate, lugging our carryons, and kids, and run the risk that the connecting filght isn't delayed.
We bargained with AW for a Nonstop flight, not merely transport anyway they chose to get us there. BTW, the return flight dumps us off @SFO at midnight, instead of 8pm, which means we have to book a hotel as we'll be too tired to drive the 3+ hpours to our home fromthere
THIS IS WHAT WE GET FOR BOOKING ON AN ECONOMY AIRLINE. SECOND CLASS SERVICE.

I really don't believe other airlines will treat you better than American West. On these forums, other people have complained about the major airlines the same way. I sympathize with you and hope you get first class.

Its kind of ironic that now that America West is off the route the complaints about the price are back. $200 each for a connecting flight from SFO to JFK is a great deal. While unfortunately the alternatives they offered are not to your liking they cannot do more. Face the facts if any passenger want inexpensive fares you have to be flexible. If you want a flexible schedule try the majors but they will make sure you pay for it. Try another LCC like Frontier or even Southwest if you are really desperate. HP tried their best but they were barely breaking even and though they admitted it would take time to begin to see some return the huge raise in oil prices made their transcons a waste of time and effort.

P.S. the upgrade on a trip from SFO to JFK is 200 each way. So you are asking for $1600 in compensation. Good luck trying to get that if you do you know where to post the news :D

This is why I'd hate to work in customer service for an airline. :)

As many posters have noted, your complaint is not terribly compelling. Airlines change flights and schedules all the time. If HP has moved your nonstop from AM to PM, would you also demand that they buy you a ticket on another airline? I think most would agree that would be silly.

What would be a somewhat more compelling story is if HP had completely pulled out of the market at the last minute and left you high and dry and at the mercy of competitors now charging much higher fares. I've seen that happen, and it's a tough situation. But that's not YOUR situation. Take the one-stop or get your money back. That's more than adequate treatment by any airline under the circumstances.

THIS IS WHAT WE GET FOR BOOKING ON AN ECONOMY AIRLINE. SECOND CLASS SERVICE.

I guess United, Southwest, American, etc...never started routes and then stopped.

United must have upgraded all their customers to first class every time they pull out of a market and payed the difference in fare for each customer.

When Southwest pulled out of SFO and rerouted everyone to OAK, did they buy everyone tickets on United or pay the BART fare?

When jetblue pulled out of the LGB-ATL market, did they move all their customers to first class on Delta?

America West did start the service with a limited schedule and then expanded it. Should they have stayed on the route just to make sure you got your $99 non-stop?

Yes, it is annoying when your travel plans change. It's annoying when you have to connect and it becomes a pain in the rear end.

Your right, you should have purchased the tickets on UA in the first place. A truly first class airline that is doing so well they are in bankruptcy themselves for the last three years.

I guess you just stuck a chord with me today. I was on a plane today and the guy next to me was complaining that they called the first class snack mix a "snack" on a flight from PHX-LAX. He thought he should have been served a real snack.

BECAUSE THEY AGREED TO FLY MY FAMILY NONSTOP 6 MONTHS AGO.
NO...you purchased transportation from SFO to JFK. You happened to choose a nonstop flight. In this industry, things happen and in this market nonstop service was dropped. You now need to make a connection in PHX, HP is still getting you to JFK from SFO, which they are bound to do per their Contract of Carriage.

First, HP offered you comperable transportation from Point A to Point B. ^

Second, They also offered you a REFUND on a very cheap, nonrefundable ticket. ^

Third, why should HP reacommodate you on UA? You are still getting transportation from SFO-JFK on the same date! ^

Fourth, Your profile says you live in Oakdale. Why don't you ask HP if you could change to SMF? That would certainly be a bit closer and since you are making a connection in PHX anyway, this may work out better. ^

Oh, and 3 hours to SFO? Sorry, grew up in the East Bay and it is not 3 hours to SFO, maybe 2 hours. I could make it to SFO (depending on time) from Tracy in 1:20. Of course, if you're talking about 7:00am thats a much different story.

So, it sounds like HP has already "stepped up to the plate" and offered you many different options. Choose one and move on!

In the old days, when people paid "reasonable" fares for air service, the airlines would gladly move you to another airline. I had this happen several times when I was in college in the 80's. However, you pay $200 to go from the W. Coast to the E. Coast and you're not willing to connect in PHX. They would have to pay UA or AA nearly $1000 to re-book you (trust me, I'm not kidding). C'mon, be reasonable!

I've found HP to be far more reasonable about accomodating schedule changes than any other airline I've ever dealt with.

Not long ago they cancelled one of their flights that I was supposed to connect to and "rebooked" me on another flight that required a 9 hour layover. When I called, they realized the absurdity of that timing, apologized and blamed the computer... but she spent the next half hour working out a new schedule for me, gave me time to think about it and made appropriate notes in my record. I could have had a refund - they gave me time to look for a cheaper ticket on another airline telling me that since they made the change they would waive all penalties or fees for changing or cancelling the ticket. I never asked for anything other than to be treated fairly - at the end of it, she said "you've been so nice about this, I'm going to send you out some vouchers" and I got 2 air care checks in the mail.

Now, when Delta did this to me, they told me I had to take their rebooking. If I didn't like it, I could fly standby on other flights on the day of flight. They wouldn't make any changes, waive any penalties or fees - it was their way or the highway.

When United did it to me, they rebooked my departure from a different airport! At least when I called them, they changed it back and were actually quite nice about it - but it was the same as HP - Refund or Rebook - your choice.

I guess my point in this overlong post is that you're being unreasonable to expect more and no other airline would give you more. Your attitude is so unrealistic that it's not even funny. Work with them and they'll find a way to give you the best experience possible - fight with them and why should they care???

BECAUSE THEY AGREED TO FLY MY FAMILY NONSTOP 6 MONTHS AGO.

Why should they downgrade our tickets merely because they made a bad business decision in selling cheap tickets, and then cancelled their service because their plan didn't work out. They should have only scheduled flights for a few months if they weren't sure if their plan would work.
An airline with any commitment to customer service wouldn't dump us on a connecting flight, merely because they decided to cut their losses. Upgrading to 1st class costs them little, since they sell the upgrade at only $50.



First: Calm down. It's not a downgrade. You didn't get dumped from F to Y or something like that.

Second: What are they supposed to do? Continue to operate a flight at a loss just because you want them to? You're getting re-routed. This happens all the time, and it's not that big of a deal.

Third: Upgrades on transcons generally go for $150 to $200 or so, if you pay cash.

Fourth: The idea that HP doesn't have a commitment to customer service is laughable.


THIS IS WHAT WE GET FOR BOOKING ON AN ECONOMY AIRLINE. SECOND CLASS SERVICE.

Stop shouting, see above, and enjoy your trip. :)

Stop shouting, see above, and enjoy your trip. :)

Thanks all for your commentary.
You were right, the airline didn't comp us to 1st, or even give us some extra miles.
Since nonstop means a lot to my family, especially on a transcon, we'll take the refund and go w/ UAL.

I'm still disappointed w/ AM West, and will think long & hard before rebooking with them again. But, UAL did something similar to us a few years back, and all's forgiven, so you never know

This is ridiculous. You have 2 choices, take the refund or take a connecting flight. Suck it up. Life goes on.

This is ridiculous. You have 2 choices, take the refund or take a connecting flight. Suck it up. Life goes on.

What WebTraveler said.

What WebTraveler said.

Thank you both for you positive, friendly, well thought out and constructive comments

Thank you both for you positive, friendly, well thought out and constructive comments

Lord knows I've had days when I've been just as pissed as you were. All it takes is some venting and reflection to realize that I am mad for such a trivial thing. Usually my wife will set me straight by telling me to quit complaining. :D

When I called, they realized the absurdity of that timing, apologized and blamed the computer...

I think their computer messes up a lot. I was once taking a flight MIA-PHX-SAN, and they cancelled the PHX-SAN flight, and rebooked me on a flight that left PHX 20 minutes before the MIA flight was to arrive!

Much like your experience though, they were very apologetic, and because there were no HP alternatives to get me into SAN that day, they put me on AA.

I am sure that AW is shaking in their boots that this once a year passenger is going to take his valued business to United.

I'm surprised at how many find the OP's position unreasonable. It might be that America West can get out of liability by pointing to some provision in that humongous contract of carriage, but that would hardly seem fair to me.

HP agreed to take these folks from SFO to JFK nonstop. We all know that nonstop is superior to connecting (save for that rare creature who wants to "break up" a USA transcon into two parts).

HP later thought better of the idea. That's okay -- just give the OP what he paid for (an SFO-JFK nonstop) on another airline. I just don't see how demanding what you paid for and what the airline promised you is unreasonable when it's a purely economic decision on HP's part to cancel the flights.

I'm surprised at how many find the OP's position unreasonable. It might be that America West can get out of liability by pointing to some provision in that humongous contract of carriage, but that would hardly seem fair to me.

HP agreed to take these folks from SFO to JFK nonstop. We all know that nonstop is superior to connecting (save for that rare creature who wants to "break up" a USA transcon into two parts).



Incorrect. The OP contracted with HP to fly them from SFO-JFK...period. The OP elected to take a nonstop yet there were other options available (maybe not to his liking with a connection thru PHX). HP is still providing that service--SFO-JFK, they are NOT trying to "get out of liability".
As has been discussed here in depth, HP was under absolutely no obligation to issue a refund on a nonrefundable ticket. In the interest of good customer service, they offered the refund. What the OP was asking for (upgrade or HP to pay for them to travel on UA) is silly.
The service was still being offered...remember the service is to provide transportation from SFO-JFK.
This horse has been beaten to death but HP stepped up to the plate and did the right thing on this. Done.

I'm surprised at how many find the OP's position unreasonable. It might be that America West can get out of liability by pointing to some provision in that humongous contract of carriage, but that would hardly seem fair to me.

HP agreed to take these folks from SFO to JFK nonstop. We all know that nonstop is superior to connecting (save for that rare creature who wants to "break up" a USA transcon into two parts).

HP later thought better of the idea. That's okay -- just give the OP what he paid for (an SFO-JFK nonstop) on another airline. I just don't see how demanding what you paid for and what the airline promised you is unreasonable when it's a purely economic decision on HP's part to cancel the flights.

As I see it, the problem with your view (and the OP's view) is that it is devoid of reality -- the reality of today's airline industry and carriers that charge $200 for a transcon that they lose money on. To some degree, you have to expect that you get what you pay for in this world. He paid $200. That simply doesn't come with all the benefits that those $1000+ transcon tickets come with.

In a perfect business world (like back to the 1970s for the airline industry), we could expect HP to purchase another ticket for the OP on another non-stop flight by another airline. In today's environment, to have that expectation is to live in fantasy land.

HP has offered to re-route him on their next-best alternative, which is a bit inconvenient, but far from unreasonable for the vast majority of people. Or, they'll refund him his money so that he can go buy another non-stop on another airline. In today's reality, you just can't expect more than that (including upgrades or extra miles). Move On.

I amazed he didn't ask for a full refund AND a non-stop ticket on another airline. My company (non-airline related) deals with people like him all the time - people who think any change or customer service issue is an opportunity to ching the cash register. I think 98% of people here agree HP was being fair and reasonable - and that would have been the case in 1975 as well as 2005. There seems to be an unreasonable expectation for heightened customer service from airlines (probably due to their pathetic lack of any real customer service on their own.) Since they consistently seem to fail, we seem to consistently demand more than is reasonable - often in a harsh tone... but the way to get what you want is to be very understanding with their issues and at the end of the conversation ask for a voucher or an air care cheque and you'll usually get it.

I'm surprised at how many find the OP's position unreasonable.

HP agreed to take these folks from SFO to JFK nonstop. We all know that nonstop is superior to connecting (save for that rare creature who wants to "break up" a USA transcon into two parts).

HP later thought better of the idea. That's okay -- just give the OP what he paid for (an SFO-JFK nonstop) on another airline. I just don't see how demanding what you paid for and what the airline promised you is unreasonable when it's a purely economic decision on HP's part to cancel the flights.

I'll chime in again here, and add my voice of support to what everybody else said. They promised to bring the OP from SFO to JFK. Routings change. Things happen. It's all listed in the contract of carriage.

They gave the OP the choice of his $ back (Which he could use to go buy another ticket) or reaccomodation on another flight. I honestly don't understand why/how somebody could purchase a discounted V/M/L/K, etc fare and then demand transfer to a full Y or F fare on another airline at the slightest change. If it mattered that much he could have purchased a fully non-transferrable fully refundable Y or H fare on HP if security mattered that much.

You get what you pay for.

I amazed he didn't ask for a full refund AND a non-stop ticket on another airline. My company (non-airline related) deals with people like him all the time - people who think any change or customer service issue is an opportunity to ching the cash register. I think 98% of people here agree HP was being fair and reasonable - and that would have been the case in 1975 as well as 2005. There seems to be an unreasonable expectation for heightened customer service from airlines (probably due to their pathetic lack of any real customer service on their own.)

What SanDiegoMark said. Very well put. ^

BECAUSE THEY AGREED TO FLY MY FAMILY NONSTOP 6 MONTHS AGO.

Why should they downgrade our tickets merely because they made a bad business decision in selling cheap tickets, and then cancelled their service because their plan didn't work out. They should have only scheduled flights for a few months if they weren't sure if their plan would work.
An airline with any commitment to customer service wouldn't dump us on a connecting flight, merely because they decided to cut their losses. Upgrading to 1st class costs them little, since they sell the upgrade at only $50.

"NOHARM NO FOUL", that's not true.
The flight is 2 hours longer, we have to deplane and run down the terminal to the next gate, lugging our carryons, and kids, and run the risk that the connecting filght isn't delayed.
We bargained with AW for a Nonstop flight, not merely transport anyway they chose to get us there. BTW, the return flight dumps us off @SFO at midnight, instead of 8pm, which means we have to book a hotel as we'll be too tired to drive the 3+ hpours to our home fromthere
THIS IS WHAT WE GET FOR BOOKING ON AN ECONOMY AIRLINE. SECOND CLASS SERVICE.

I feel your pain, but you really have not been in the dark, this happens every day of the week, and the losses airlines are dealing with cannot continue... you indicate that it is personal, but it is not... here in DFW, think how all the DELTA flyers feel, betrayed, angry, etc... but the bottom line became at $200 a seat = no profit, so for the good of the business they made a decision... sorry you were affected, but if you do this for a living (160K miles last year) you get used to it...

You mention that you are 3+ hours from SFO, what if you ask for them to re-route you from San Jose, San Luis Obispo, Sacramento? Given their change they should allow you a re-route at no charge... just a thought, remember, it's just transportation, don't let it ruin your vacation, best of luck...

Regards

Well, it appears America West has successfully lowered its customers' expectations. Maybe its stock is a "buy".

Well there is always the other alternative for cheap transportation...its called Greyhound! GET ON BOARD! :p

Its obvious he was upset that his $99 roundtrip fare flight was cancelled!! (was told by a pax thats what he paid on that flight back in December)
You get what you pay for!

hahahaha, this is comical, you booked these tickets 6 months ago, if i had a ticket like this booked within a month or two, i would agree, but give me a break. i am sure, any of us on this page can look back to america west topics here, and within the past 6 months, we could find that america west planned months and months ago to axe the sfo service, it was subpar, and performed no where near as well as the lax flights. rumors, talk, or simple blah blah blah, it was mentioned on every airline talk page that hp was simply unhappy with the sfo flights, they would be dumped, and then if so, why would have booked them then. somebody's cryin wolf here!!!

Well considering Quagmire on Family Guy is a pilot for an unknown domestic carrier, I don't see him having any trouble getting a seat--- unless it's next to an attractive woman:

http://www.planet-familyguy.com/characters/pics/quagmire_tn.jpg

:p

"Allllriiiiiiiiiiiiight!!!"

Doug,

If you booked on UA SFO-JFK are you on a p.s. flight?

That is a really nice way to travel, even in coach, as it is Economy Plus and likely worth the $50/per passenger. I would pay the extra every time.

M