MilesBuzz! - 4 those holding Hilton Mexico $0 reservations

I didn't want this to get burried under 179 posts so I'm posting here. I went a little farther than confirming my reservation with the #800 number, but didn't waste my time calling the hotel directly. I've kept silent as there were some people working to insure my customer satisfaction behind the scenes. The hotel will quote a rate of $179 for those just showing up. If some of you check you will see that those who confirmed have had their rate "reduced" to $135. I have gone through specific channels that I won't post here (not because I am trying to be hold back) but because it just wouldn't be smart.

I only booked 3 nights with no additional stays so there was a lot of (and I'm quoting) "good faith room to move". And, I quietly began trying to work this out. I have been given 3 things 1) a DEEPLY discounted (not free)rate & a double upgrade if I keep the reservation. 2) A flexible voucher for a certain number of free hotel nights the next time I book with Hilton International 3) HHonors bonus points.

If you call the hotel directly & are told your reservation is "confirmed" AND there is "no problem" you have a BIG problem. The manager has only authorized them to reduce your rate to $99 per night & the staff will not budge. I suggest organizing your thoughts, having your Gold or Plat # ready & starting with Hilton here in the states. If you've booked a lot of nights, I doubt you'll have much success.

Just a heads up, not an admonishment people. So don't get mad.

Thanks! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif What do we get, if anything, for being nice enough to NOT book it at all? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Good warm feeling(s) inside! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Geez, I would hate to be Hilton and have to deal with a flood of calls from "guests" who had no intention of going to Mexico City but rather took advantage of a computer error and were hoping for some compensation for their "time on the Internet". I hope you all get what's coming to you.

fallinasleep

I second your post

How many people really thought the rate was $0?

Kiranice...will you please email me? thanks!

Why don't you share the wealth and let the people know how you did it?? C'mon..you got yours! I don't even have a res. there..just helping others out.

Those of us on the sidelines can only watch this one play out. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Our Trekkie has done well and need not share any further information or compromise her/his position with Hilton. You guys made your bed, now you'll find out what the real price of sleeping in it will be.

I didn't make any reservations, so I hope that's not directed at me.I thought this board was to help others anyway...not "you made your bed...now lay in it"...very unfriendly....maybe these people need some help here.

Kira

Could you email me and/or tell me if the people "working" for you were at Hilton or Travelocity. I have spoken with a supervisor at Travel (since I figured it was their error) who had NOT kept any of his promises to follow up - he had no explanation of what was going on - and I wanted to know what I would really be paying before paying for an air ticket! I will NEVER deal with Travelocity again but that is another thread

First, a few things I learned as a result of asking general questions. They were: Do I have a reservation? What is the rate? Can you please confirm that with the hotel? And, Is that the code for an award stay or a promotion in conjunction with some special coupon or travel package?

This information was obviously given by Hilton after an incident I witnessed, so consider the source. First, the property in Mexico uploaded the rate to Travelocity & Hilton for the web booking. Hilton.com did not generate the rate.

Apparenlty, what we think of as "Hilton" has a strict policy with franchises to insure that the information it provides on its rates & specials is accurate before transmitting it because of liability issues for valid rates. (Whatever that means) "Hilton" does not edit the information from the individual properties because they have agreed to insure it is correct prior to sending & must contact them (through some special/specific process) if it is in error. Apparently, the hotel has been aware of the rate & did not request Hilton remove it from its website or Travelocity's. It was only after calling the 800# that Hilton suspected there was a problem & then tried to contact the MEX property directly.

I was TOLD that the hotel manager in Mexico was "uncooperative" with Hilton when it tried to confirm the validity of the rate so that it could be changed on both Hilton.com & Travelocity or allow folks to continue making the bookings.

The agent I initially asked about my reservation actually had me on the line while they called the property. (note to grammar freaks, I am purposely using "they" instead of the correct gender pronoun so I don't embarrass or call attention to any specific person by reference)

The person who answered would not even put the Hilton agent through to the hotel manager & was VERY nasty. (I didn't say a word, just sat there a listening) Bad move for the agent, because they knew I was listening to them being dismissed, yelled at & ignored by a property employee. THAT is when the agent got ticked & decided to flag my reservation to a supervisor for intervention. And, they did intervene!!!

As it turns out they have done this before with the $0 rate & other REALLY REALLY cheap rates. Guests would call the hotel directly & be told the room was confirmed at whatever was on the screen when they booked ($35/25/$0/whatever) only to find at check in or at CHECK OUT that their rate was "now" $200 a night or something like that. A good ole fashioned bait & switch.

So, guess who got the scathing letters & angry calls when they got back home? Hilton guest services. As a result, they've had to compensate guests as best they could & loose future revenue. Not good PR for Hilton. (right in line for DL though)):

But, I digress. There's been a lot of talk about people on this board taking advantage of some "poor clerk's" mistake. Based solely on what I was told from Hilton, I don't think that applies anymore. Now, as I have no personal first hand knowledge of what has happened in the past, I'm not swearing to it. Only sharing what I was told.

I also think that if the agent hadn't been treated so horribly by an affiliate in my presence, nothing would've come of it. Perhaps they just wanted to save face with me since I was listening to the entire exchange & didn't want me to think this is how Hilton handles its business normally. Who knows.

So, if folks really want to stay there & haven't had the "pleasure" of listening in on the 3 way from hell, your rate will be reduced from the $179 that was manually added to your reservation by the property sometime last week, to $99 before you check in. But, you must call for the adjustment. I believe they are willing to fax confirmation of that rate to you on property letter head if requested. I'm not sure.

So, that's my story. I didn't demand anything. I didn't threaten anyone. I didn't get indignant or rant about poor service or faulty online booking information. I just asked 4 questions & then got a front row seat at a VERY NASTY exchange between "Hilton" employees over a reservation & who had authority to check what. (It was pretty bad & I was very embarrassed for my agent)

And, I thank the Trekie from Toronto for the kind words! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Tahnk you very much for your information, really nice to see somebody help others!!!

(BTW I do not have a res but was intersted in the outcome)

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Viele Grüße

Oliver

Dear Kira,

Incredible story!! Good going for you! I was not aware that this "sale" was also listed on Hilton's own website. This certainly is not a case of you getting something for nothing, as one's inclination might have suggested, nor is it apparently an isolated mistake by the hotel property.

My original assumption of not going blithely down to the hotel in Mexico and trying to pull the stunt of getting the $0 rate appears to have been good advice from what you tell me of this hotel's shenanigans in the past.

It is a wonder to me, that Hilton has not pulled this franchisee's license, though. It would seem that this property is much more trouble than it is worth! Moreover, it is unclear which company, USA Hilton or Hilton Int'l actually signed the franchise agreement with this joker. It may be that it was Hilton Int'l but that USA Hilton has to pick up the pieces on this, as many of those whom were disgruntled in the past, may have been "Norte Americanos".

As I had indicated in my post in the United forum, if one acts reasonably, and is not a "pig" about the problem, one may actually get a good deal from it all.

In summation, all I can say is "YOU GO GIRL!!"

[This message has been edited by DOC 2 BE (edited 03-21-2001).]

Thanks KiraNarise! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Thanks for posting this. Why didn't you just do it this way in the first place? You haven't compromised anyone here at all.You made it seem as though you had "friends in high places" or you called the DA or FBI or something. Simply put ..you got lucky.
FYI...I didn't have a reservation, but was curious of the outcome. Good job.

Excellent analysis and eloquence. You're a real asset to the board.

Ditto. One of the best posts I've read on this board.

Thank you KiraNarise for a very informative and analytical post on this subject.

To date there have been a number of debates on these boards about the morality of taking advantage of cheap rates when and if they arise (and however they arise), however your post illustrates that there is another dimension to these types of consumer affairs and that is when firms use underhand tactics to milk clients of their funds unscrupulously.

In this case there appears to be the basic elements of a 'bait and switch' tactic. There is certainly no morality in such actions. I think your approach of confirming the reservation in a polite and non-confrontational way is a wise approach and readers of these boards would do well to study it carefully. I would only add that it is important that any such confirmation is in writing as you then have some hard evidence should a dispute arise.

I hope that when the airlines passenegers bill is examined by Congress some consideration is given to providing a greater degree of certainty to consumers and merchants alike with respect to the issue of online advertised specials of this type. All that is required is a simple set of ground rules that is presented to consumers and governs the conduct of consumers and merchants in online transactions. I do not think any reasonable consumer of merchant would object to such a framework.

To some extent existing consumer legislation may cover this already, however such legislation may vary from state to state. Given the cross-jurisdictional nature of internet commerce, a Federal legislative framework providing certainty for consumers and merchants alike is required.

cheers Peter

Of course this has turned out to be a classic case of "bait and switch", but it appears to be equally a case of "if it is too good to be true, be careful". In a way, I say a pox on both your houses. Hilton MEX Airport should be severely dealt with by the folks in London at Ladbrooke, the parent company of Hilton International. As this appears to be a regular occurance, and likely results in a shakedown upon check-out, in a country notorious for such things, there can be no excuse for not disciplining the franchisee. But anyone who really believed they would be getting a free room is equally culpable. Caveat Emptor.

And I do not believe that Hilton International operates franchises. While properties may be own by other companies and investor groups, the actual hotels are managed by Hilton International employees. Is this not the case? Which would make that company somewhat suspect, or very lax in overseeing their Mexico City staff.

They (guest relations) told me that they'll give a $50 rate to all who had reservation for the first THREE days of such reservations only, and that after that it will be at prevailing rates, and there will be no other concessions. They also told me that they had spoken to a Wall Street Journal Reporter and informed her of this decision. Hmmm...

Narise, nice job.

This sounds like similar problems I have had on Travelocity and Expedia. On several times, I have searched and rental car rates of $0.00/day, and I have also obtained rates of $5000.00/day, yikes!

Even though I obtained rates of $0.00, I would be a fool to try and book it. I know the rate is an error and because I travel and book reservations a lot, I also SHOULD KNOW that it is in error. If you KNOW a rate is incorrect, you cannot expect the reservation to be honored. I also don't think you would have any grounds to complain.

On the other hand....

A person who does not travel often and DOES NOT KNOW the rate is incorrect, might be able to get the rate honored because they believed it would be honored. I base my statement on what my brother-in-law, who is a California product liability attorney, told me. He said that in court, a person that is ignorant of product misuse stands a much better chance of winning than a person who knew or should have known that they were misusing a product.

So, if you know the rate is wrong, I conclude their is no consideration for the other party and therefore no contract.

Dear Aubie,

Your B- in - Law is probably correct re product liabillity issues, but such is not the case herein. There is no instrumentality that caused any harm.


In this situation, contract principles would be operative, and unilateral mistake as to contracting would problably obtain.

However, that being said, there are certain suspicious facts as to the frequencly of this happening many times at this hotel. they would not have such a defense if this was the case.

If you are interested, you should read the great panoply of views on this issue under the similar thread initiated by GUAVA, here in the BUZZ!
Enjoy!

I was of the understanding that ignorance plays no role in court decisions, as ignorance is not an acceptable excuse. I think in this case, it is switch and bait as it happens often enough and the hotel is making money out of error often. Secondly, the parent company, Hilton Intl. seems to take no action from allowing the error to repeat itself over and over.

Correct re Bait and Switch,partly correct re ignorance of the law. It is not a defense in CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS/CASES, not civil cases, as a contract dispute, undeiably is.

Hope this helps to clarify. As noted, this hotel seems to be owned by those who business practices are none to kosher.

I am a bit hesitant of coming back to this thread but I guess there is one very important piece of information that I need to add to this thread.

Although the rate quoted was $0 per room. But, on the contract, it does state that an extra person would cost $25USD per person. Therefore, there is indeed a monetary value associated if one wishes to do so. That means, if 3 people occupy the room, the room rate is actually $25 per night + taxes. Therefore, one can book for 10 nights at this rate and had that 3rd person paying for his/her own charge so the room would still be free 'technically' for the two people originally booked in the room. I have a copy of the contract on my hands right now and I am not making this piece of information up. I have been contacted by the Wall Street Journalist and I guess I will inform her of this piece of information. I am not familiar with U.S. Laws, so how does this piece of info can possibly affect the outcome of lawsuit?

I am not a lawyer and this sounds like a case for a lawyers advice. Doc2Be, I think Switch and Bait may be a criminal act, therefore reinforcing my prior post. If you made your reservation in the US and the Hiltion server is located in the US, then I would think (but do not know) that you may be able to avail of US law. For those of you effected, maybe call your state attorney general and ask for advice.

JRF --

Very good point, I had not thought about that! Unfortunately, as you can no doubt appreciate, my connections with the law are not as strong as they once were, nor were they involved in this sort of thing.

Moreover, the law concerning jurisdiction, be it for civil or criminal matters, I think is quite unsettled at this moment, and that directly impacts the issue of the "place" where this act had been carried out.

Indeed, it is likely that multiple jurisdictions are involved, and that entails a conflict of laws analysis -- a hellish issue, if there ever was one!!

In addition, we are not talking about a massive fraud, nor is it clear that that term is even appropriate herein, and I very much doubt that any State Attorney General would become involved in this matter.

My own viewpoint:

The offer of $50/night is quite generous and one should accept it if they are interested, as I doubt very much you will get anything better. As I have said in numerous posts earlier, I think that anyone expecting a $0 room rate, when other reservations clearly were apparent and showed rooms for $X, will be a nonstarter.

I doubt very many people will take up this offer for $50, as a sojourn at the Mex City airport in the summer (?) does not sound all too enticing!!!

I agree, that they should be disciplined and have their franchise terminated, but one must remember the term "Caveat Emptor."

Finally, I feel sorry for US Hilton, as it would appear that it is Hilton International that has dropped the ball on this one (they are separate companies), but it would seem that many if not most of those so affected (North Americans) probably have complained and have sought some form of relief from the US company, which it would appear, to have no influence over this franchisee. They are simply left holding the bag of bad recriminations.

I doubt very much that a WSJ "expose," if there even is one, will amount to much, because this situation is very much different IMHO, than the United matter, wherein a number of posters have incisively noted, that United had dug its own grave by charging the credit cards of those so affected, for a full fare without any prior authorization!!!!

In the instant matter, Hilton has made a reasonable offer to end this problem.

But, hey, I was wrong on the United matter, so who knows???????????? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

According to the director of guest relations for Hilton USA, the mexico city Hilton is under the control and management of Hilton USA, and NOT Hilton International.

If the rate is misquoted intentionally, then shame on them. But, like I said happens to me on Travelocity and Expedia, you get a $0.00/rate, I think that is a true computer glitch(like with the $20-$50 airfares a few weeks ago that some on hear booked). The airfares were less than the taxes which would mean that the airline would have to pay more in taxes than they collected in fares. I think that even if the airline intentionally posted such a fare, the airline would be subject to anti-trust violations for selling a ticket at a loss.

Although not directly on point, RyanAir's sale fares often are less than all the associated taxes!

I don't see how it would be an anti trust violation if the airline were to sell something for a loss. Supermarkets and other businesses have "loss leaders." Admittedly, I never took Eco, but would it not be such a violation if others took such action to drive competitors out of a market? Here, you have only an isolated instance, of it.

Inasmuch this appears to be a Hilton USA propety franchisee, then the blame falls squarely with them to discipline this franchisee, as well as the mess they have made.

Yet, I still feel that a $50 room rate offer is quite generous, as I really can't see anyone who really were misled by a $0 room rate.

A better case would be something that appeared to be a fire sale price, and was not, as it turned out! This however, really does not fir that fact pattern, in my opinion.

[This message has been edited by DOC 2 BE (edited 03-24-2001).]

Doc2Be, I would like to send you an e-mail regarding your post. As your e-mail address is not listed; if you would, please drop me an e-mail with your address. My address if flyertalk@bellfriedel.com

Cheers
Jonathan

Isn't DJ lawman an anti-trust attorney? I believe that selling seats at a loss is call "dumping". Dumping is illegal in our Capitolism system but I do not know where the line is between dumping and promotion. Certainly new businesses have to take a loss in order to promote, but an established airline like United would be different I think.

Back in the early 90's, Delta had $29 rt airfares from ATL to either Ft. Laud or MIA. They were maching Valuejet's $29 promotion. To me, this was an anti-trust violation because Delta dumped their seats in order to run Valuejet out of business.

Our Wash reps must be getting paid-off rather well by the established airlines. But then again, it is only "soft" money, so it must be ok.

I too am not a lawyer, but I believe that dumping is illegal ONLY when the goods come from outside the US into the US. For years steel from Japan was allegedly being sold for less than its cost to manufacture. (For you number folks, I forget if that is full or variable cost...but I assume variable cost.)
Things are sold in the US, and I am sure nearly every country, below cost every day. It may be a close out, or a loss leader at a grocery store. That is not illegal. But in a capitalist market, if you sell everything below cost forever, you will go out of business. Check out many of the dot coms for proof.

As comicwoman correctly notes, "dumping" is a term used in international trade circles to identify products that are being sold into another country at less than their cost of production in the country of manufacture. This is becoming harder to prove, however, since so many products are now sold at prices that bear little or no relation to their actual cost of production. The term has been used in domestic market situations, but I don't believe this discussion relates to "dumping". It is clearly a matter of incorrect pricing, advertant or inadvertant, or even worse, conscious "bate and switch".

But remember, dumping occurs every day in industries that deal with perishable commodities, and after a fact, hotel rooms and airline seats are perishable, since if they are not occupied on a given day, they are no longer saleable [on that day]. This has given birth to capacity control, variable pricing, and such things as internet specials where inventory is sold off in a variety of ways up to a week or more in advance when it is clear only a small portion will be sold at higher "step up to the counter" rates.

A quite well known FlyerTalker told me in NYC on the weekend Hilton had offered him 50,000 points NOT TO GO to Mexico to use his Travelocity booking. Any other similar approaches to those here?

Another FT'er at Idlewild Friday night told me UA had given him $2,000 for NOT taking his 4 x booked $27 cheap fares to Paris he was able to book. I think he made a great choice to accept the $2,000.

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~ Glen ~

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~ Glen ~

According to Tom Parson's Bestfares.com (http://www.bestfares.com/travel/desks/story.asp?id=12353), "technically, Hilton will not honor the zero rates but the chain says it will offer each person one free night and the lowest available rate for the other nights, if multiple nights were booked."

Eugene .. 50K free points sounds like a far better deal to me. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Originally posted by ozstamps:
Eugene .. 50K free points sounds like a far better deal to me. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
No kidding! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif 50K HHonors points would buy 2 free nights at the same hotel, if someone really wants to go there.

Or 2 ++ nights at many decent Hiltons NOT at polluted Mexico City Airport. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Or put you half-way to the 6-nights free vacation in Hawaii http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Hawaii, Schmawaii. Half way to 6 nights at 100s top notch Hiltons all around the GLOBE!!

http://www.hilton.com/hhonors/rewards/vip.html

Or better still, 51,000 points gets five FREE nights at any Executive" property on point stretchers, and they include some fairly decent places if looked at carefully. And even the Sydney Hilton downtown I notice does 4 nights for 54,000 all during April. That sure beats a free night at Mexico City Airport Hilton. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

http://www.hilton.com/hhonors/rewards/hotel.html

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~ Glen ~

This looks as if it is still playing out. Possibly the fourth quarter. Hope all comes out well for those who made reservations.