America West FlightFund (Discontinued Program) - What's happening with their fares?

I'm doing a little bit of travel planning for the next 6 months (all personal), and fly the SAN-YYC route quite a bit (no surprise there looking at my profile!). HP is priced at least $100 higher in ALL aspects than UA, Delta, Alaska, etc. They used to be quite competitive but what's going on? To save $100 ... or a lot more considering how much I travel, being FF Elite isn't worth it to pay so much over time. New strategy or are they just upping rates? because people will just go and fly cheaper carriers!!

I have noticed the same problem for about a month. I started flying NW because of the price changes.

I have noticed the same thing as well. I took a Delta flight this week despite Plat status.

What aircraft do the other airlines use? With HP using RJ's their CASM is higher.

What are the loads on these flights? If HP is filling up their planes, then you're probably seeing full fare seats.

If capacity in these particular routes were an issue, it'd be reasonable to expect that other airlines serving the exact route/date/time specifications would also raise their prices (unless a sudden surge of HP loyalists decided to book despite lower prices elsewhere, and of course, we've seen that no, economics takes over). And plus, the seat maps indicate full availability - no different from what Delta, AC, UA, etc. are charging a lower price for.

HP is gonna lose if they don't fix this quick - tools like expedia and travelocity are too quick in isolating those that are too expensive for the same product.

My experiance is on the RNO - DCA run. No change in airplane but big increase in fares. This seems to be true even two months out. Found same days/times about $100.00 cheaper.

My experiance is on the RNO - DCA run. No change in airplane but big increase in fares. This seems to be true even two months out. Found same days/times about $100.00 cheaper.
I agree. My SAN-YYC run is about $100 more expensive than all of the other carriers, regardless of date, time, etc. It's like we can't win. Maybe it's time to consider asking for elite comps on other airlines ... hmmm ....

It's called Yield Management (or Revenue Management, if you prefer). Apparently, HP believes that it can get a premium on these routes. Or, it may be taking a page out of CO's gamebook and not giving out the lowest fares early in the booking process. They can always lower fares later in the booking process, if needed.

It's called Yield Management (or Revenue Management, if you prefer). Apparently, HP believes that it can get a premium on these routes. Or, it may be taking a page out of CO's gamebook and not giving out the lowest fares early in the booking process. They can always lower fares later in the booking process, if needed.

HP's pricing out of DCA has been weird for some time now. There's no question they take advantage of the fact that on a number of routes (LAS for just one), they're the only game in town if you want a nonstop out of DCA. For those of us who have no intention of driving to friggin' Baltimore to take join in the daily SW stampede to grab a seat and don't want to trek out to Dulles, we're left to either get a cheaper ticket with a plane change or pay the extra $$ for a direct flight.

My last time out, I opted to save a little over $100 by taking US, which meant a trip from from DCA to Charlotte before heading out west...

I agree. My SAN-YYC run is about $100 more expensive than all of the other carriers, regardless of date, time, etc. It's like we can't win. Maybe it's time to consider asking for elite comps on other airlines ... hmmm ....


I submitted my NW request today.

I got comped to HP Gold in late 2003 because they opened up the PHX-SJO route. They had good pricing at the time, but now it just sucks. The SJO fare market has really gotten hot, and prices have come down greatly, but HP just doesn't want to compete, I guess.

If HP hadn't nuked their FF program in '04, I would have enough miles for a free intl trip, but I'm still a few thousand shy. Probably with a few PHX-LAX trips, I'll be there later this year.

It's just like their increased FC price. They have the PHX-LAX for $279 or something, and lately have upped it another 75 or 100 dollars. Whatever they can get the chumps to pay.

SAN-YYZ round trip has jumped from $263 to $500 or 600 for dates in June and beyond. That's the same rate as all the others... or even more. For that money I'll fly Air Canada, United or NW. They have better times and more frequent service. The only reason to fly HP (though not for more money) will be for the FC upgrades (which have been plentiful on the YYZ routes I've flown.)

Alright, with the ensuing fares, I figured it's almost time to go comp shopping because the summer fares can only go UP from where they are as we get closer to those long weekends. What does everyone think of UA (Star Alliance) and/or Delta's elite programs... and dare I ask, any opinions on the Alaska MVP? Compared with HP's FF, of course.

Alright, with the ensuing fares, I figured it's almost time to go comp shopping because the summer fares can only go UP from where they are as we get closer to those long weekends. What does everyone think of UA (Star Alliance) and/or Delta's elite programs... and dare I ask, any opinions on the Alaska MVP? Compared with HP's FF, of course.

I qualified as Silver on HP in 2003. Last year before I started traveling internationally I used my HP status to get a comp to Premier on UA. My subsequent travels got me up to 1K on UA and I haven't looked back. I still flew HP enough last year to be Silver this year, but I don't see it happening again.

On most routes served by both UA and HP that I fly they are price competitive. UA miles are much more valuable than HP miles because of UA's network and the Star Alliance. UA's elite benefits are superior as well. UA actually does upgrades by status, even if seats are released after the elite upgrade windows. (I know, a simple concept, but HP doesn't seem to get it. Didn't really affect me as a Silver member, but certainly disincented me to attain higher status.) 1K's on United get 6 systemwide upgrades, allowing you to fly to Asia in business for less than $1000 roundtrip. In may sound snobbish, but I also found the clientele on UA to be weighted more towards bussiness travelers vs. more leisure travelers on HP.

UA has its annoyances, the most prominent for me being their web site. It's quite frustrating for a FT, both for its lack of functionality and the existing functionality working only intermittently. The good news is as an elite you can usually get an agent on the phone pretty quickly. But as with most phone support these days, often you have to call back multiple times to get someone competent enough to handle anything beyond the simplest request.

No airline's perfect, and the best for any given individual depends a lot on what your travel patterns are and what you value in a FFP. I'm pretty happy to have moved the bulk of my travel from HP to UA.

Unlike Bay Area Pilot, I moved from UA to HP after UA started all TED service to LAS. Even given the 6 systemwide upgrades as a 1K, they are worthless, since TED has NO first class. This is an issue with a lot of Nevada UA 1K's.

HP at least provides a First Class security line out of LAS for elites and a First Class cabin. That will keep me flying HP no matter what the fare. The security lines at UA can be horrendous, and I can't stand in them every week.

Having said all that, for foreign travel I stay with UA, upgrading with miles to F, since I lost 1K status last year.

I hope HP can realign their fares to earlier levels, the price increase is over 25% in most markets now.

This crazy oil spike has deep sixed the trancons and is killing their yields thus the fare hikes even staunchy NW is instituting some fare hikes. I wonder how long they will stick if the compeition does not go along.

It's called Yield Management (or Revenue Management, if you prefer). Apparently, HP believes that it can get a premium on these routes. Or, it may be taking a page out of CO's gamebook and not giving out the lowest fares early in the booking process. They can always lower fares later in the booking process, if needed.

This is correct, the flights are now priced to fill the plane. If you only have 2 flights a day to let's say Miami and you can fill them both at 'xyz' price, no need to load the lower fares into the system, weeks or months in advance. If the loads are under for a specific date, the lower bucket fares then get loaded into the system. This is exactly what you are seeing and has been taking place with HP since December or so.

Like it or not it's all about survival, with oil prices out of control and over capacity the way it is, it's all about who can put the most cash on the books and hang on for the bumpy road ahead. Some consolidation will have to take place over the next few years and you want to make sure you are the one acquiring and not being liquidated.

What you are likely experiencing is AWA's renewed effort to boost yields as demand increases. It is now the Holy Scripture at AWA to not offer junk fares on peak travel days -- and there are now probably like 100 of them a year -- because it can sell those seats for more. You will often find AWA uncompetitive on far advance reservations, as they are happy to let the competitors sell out of cheap seats first. This will be particularly true on connecting flights, since AWA can often get more revenue selling the 2 flights to separate passengers who will pay more for the nonstop convenience to AWA's busy hubs.

Now as a passenger searching for cheap seats, there are many reasons not to like this. But you have to remember that this is a business -- one that is not profitable at the moment, as is beset by crazy bankrupt competitors and soaring jet fuel prices. So I think you might understand their need to boost revenue, even if it unfortunately means some passengers will take their business elsewhere.

HP's pricing out of DCA has been weird for some time now.

i agree. i flew hp between was and pdx/sna/sfq quite a bit last year because i could almost always purchase $120 ow fares within a day or 2 of departure. sadly, this is no longer the case.

"The biggest part of the equation is getting airfares up, something America West has been trying to do vigorously by shunning ultracheap fares on peak travel days, regardless of what the competition is doing."

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0227airlinescramble27.html

See, I'm thinking of switching to other airlines, but thinking about it once again - I'm guessing other people that traditionally fly HP are also contemplating the same. However, I am willing to pay an extra 20% if it means more guaranteed elite upgrades; that is, if their higher fares lead people to go elsewhere, does that mean there may be more capacity for upgrades for us that remain loyal to HP??

What does everyone think of this new logic? :cool:

What does everyone think of this new logic? :cool:

iirc, price increases generally result in decreased demand, which, in turn, should trigger supply reductions, unless hp likes flying empty planes. i don't know, are loads lighter these days or not? (the fact that it's high season in az right now is another variable that should be accounted for.)

in any case, you don't have to worry about me competing with you for upgrades any more.

From the business perspective, I believe that HP is absolutely the right thing. I have always said that you can offer higher fares early on in the booking process (say 90-120 days before departure). If you don't have enough bookings on the flight, you can always offer lower fares later on in the booking process (say 21-45 days before departure).

From the passenger perspective, it s**ks!

My experience has been that last minute fares have been great and lifesaving. When the wave of hurricanes hit florida in september I was able to get a $100 fare for a one way from MCO to LAX ^ . This was around 1 or 2 in the afternoon for a 9pm departure :D . It was literally one of the last flights out since the next day the airport began to close due to weather problems.

My experience has been that last minute fares have been great and lifesaving. When the wave of hurricanes hit florida in september I was able to get a $100 fare for a one way from MCO to LAX ^ . This was around 1 or 2 in the afternoon for a 9pm departure :D . It was literally one of the last flights out since the next day the airport began to close due to weather problems.

That is pretty amazing. $100 for a walkup transcon. Not bad at all.

What was it booked in? I'm guessing not Y?

Actually it was a last minute internet only fare on americawest.com. My itenerary had me transferring at LAS to make my LAX flight, I forget which ticket class but it was not Y. When I got to the airport the flight left phoenix nearly 2 hours late :rolleyes: thankfully the agent transferred me to a delta/song flight which allowed to make my connection. When I was transferred I had to settle for skymiles, but hey they rebooked it in Y class ^ which for $100 is quite a deal considering the MQM debacle at the time, and furthermore I was a west coast boy trying to get the hell out of dodge. :D

I'm doing a little bit of travel planning for the next 6 months (all personal), and fly the SAN-YYC route quite a bit (no surprise there looking at my profile!). HP is priced at least $100 higher in ALL aspects than UA, Delta, Alaska, etc. They used to be quite competitive but what's going on? To save $100 ... or a lot more considering how much I travel, being FF Elite isn't worth it to pay so much over time. New strategy or are they just upping rates? because people will just go and fly cheaper carriers!!


Agreed, Americawest is moving away from "low fare carrier" status. :td: I've started flying NWA & UA and, ugh, Southwest (personal travel) a lot more in 2005 because their rates are tremendously better and it gets me where I want to go. For business travel (so far in 2005), we've moved travel for our thirty-eight sales reps away from Americawest and have adopted UA and Southwest.

Great perspectives in this thread.

My experience has been that last minute fares have been great and lifesaving. When the wave of hurricanes hit florida in september I was able to get a $100 fare for a one way from MCO to LAX ^ . This was around 1 or 2 in the afternoon for a 9pm departure :D . It was literally one of the last flights out since the next day the airport began to close due to weather problems.

that's how it used to be for flights between was and the west coast, but as i mentioned previously, i think the game is pretty much over. i still check hp first whenever i need to go x-country, however they haven't come through for me since october.

yes, recently I experienced the increase of AWA advance fare.

Trying to price out a flight from SAN - YYZ in end of May's long weekend. It's close to $500. I usually got this about $260 US.

Looking at the seat map, 3/4 of the planes are empty on all the segments.

Well, I think I will wait. Today airlines are raising fares.... sooner or later one of the airlines will trigger the sale cycle. Remember US airways was selling a transcon (SAN-BOS) for $140 in early Jan? Yes, this is roundtrip fare with tax included.

I think I would rather seeing airline pricing at a reasonable fare for 60+ days advance, then artifically jack up the price which doesn't reflect the actual demand.

From the business perspective, I believe that HP is absolutely the right thing. I have always said that you can offer higher fares early on in the booking process (say 90-120 days before departure). If you don't have enough bookings on the flight, you can always offer lower fares later on in the booking process (say 21-45 days before departure).!

Well, this thread made me want to check my itin, and that's definitely the case for me...MSP-LAX for mid-May was $282 in December (when I bought it) and $178 now.

Well, this thread made me want to check my itin, and that's definitely the case for me...MSP-LAX for mid-May was $282 in December (when I bought it) and $178 now.

If the fare has gone down, you are entitled to a GAF (Guaranteed Air Fare) voucher for the difference. The itinerary must be exactly the same as you booked it in December and it will be repriced. If the fare is lower, HP sends out a voucher for the difference. It sounds like the $178.00 doesnt include all taxes ($89 each way?), does the $282?
My advice is to call and have the agent reprice your itinerary and see if it is lower. Good luck.

Yea, I looked a bit closer and the actual difference between the two fares is more like $50 after taxes. However, the ticket was purchased for me at priceline/lowestfare, so I doubt I'm eligible for a GAF voucher. I'll check it out, though..thanks!