America West FlightFund (Discontinued Program) - IAD-PHX....uggh...

I think the worst part about my perfect F trip over to DC Wednesday was knowing I would be in the back of the bus for a longer 5 hour flight Thursday. Oh boy was I right :(

Inflight service was great. Flight left on time and arrived 10 mins late. excellent. Full flight. I was in the 11 echo, exit rows, along with a bunch of other plats who didn't make it up front. The woman next to me (plat) told me that HP ranks what plat gets an f seat first on the standby list by check in time. I chimed in and thought HP ranked standby's by mileage/flown miles balances. Can anyone clarify?

Now the bad part. We are about to just close the door and a very large man boards and sits next to me in the window, seat 11 foxtrot. I guess the best analogy I can come up with is dropping a large rock into a bowl of water and watch the water spill over the sides. As he plopped down I was immediately displaced onto to the contents of the person next to me. Exit row, so the armrests are permanently fixed--doesn't matter. this man is so large that his elbow in sticking into my chest and his shoulder and left arm are at least 4-6" into my seat. No joke. I spent 90% of that flight in pain. This morning my entire left arm and shoulder are sore--and I'm the last person in the world that would make a stink about this and if I were to read some trip report made by any other poster I would probably be like "oh get over it", but this was ridiculous. Being reseated was not an option. Every and all seats were occupied (minus the jumpseat in the cockpit!). As far as I'm concerned this man would never have one seat if he was on WN. He would not be flying or opening up his wallet to get two seats. Should I even send a letter off to HP? What good what it do, as it's now a moot point?

I don't want to get into the Passenger of Size issue, but a thought did occur to me. If the passenger was as large as I am imagining from your description, how can they be exit-row qualified (i.e. willing and able.)

Yes, he could probably have opened the exit, but would he have impeded exit in an emergency?

Just thoughts, and no judgement being passed.

Bob

Should I even send a letter off to HP?

Definitely! A friend of mine had the exact same experience on a flight from PHX to SAN last week. The flight was packed and they seated an extremely large individual next to him at the last minute. After sitting twisted for the entire flight (luckily much shorter than yours) he complained to the flight attendant and gate agents. He got three different answers from three different HP employees when he asked what their policy was for large passengers.

He sent a letter in to the customer relations folks and is waiting for a response. In protest he booked an upcoming trip for himself and his family on Southwest.

Should I even send a letter off to HP?
Absolutely send Customer Service a letter... both for yourself (in case you ever fly 'em again) and for the rest of us (I fly DCA-PHX and back next week).

I had this problem (and for the record, I'll spout off on the passenger-of-size issue to anyone who asks me for my opinion) on USAirways a couple months ago, when it became apparent that most of the US employees didn't know the company policy -- or maybe some of them just didn't want to confront the guy. Customer Service needs to know whether there are FAs who are not aware of the company policy; it's just as important that they know that they have FAs who aren't enforcing it.

I had this exact problem last summer. I fired off a letter to AWA and got a nice " thanks for your input" and " we are constantly evaluating passenger feedback" letter. Thats it. Oh well

Ken in Phx

I had this exact problem last summer. I fired off a letter to AWA and got a nice " thanks for your input" and " we are constantly evaluating passenger feedback" letter. Thats it. Oh well

Ken in Phx

Here's what I sent. I'll keep you posted on what I hear back.

18 February 2005

Hello,

I'd like to comment on flight 247 I took last night from IAD to PHX. I was sitting in 11 echo and when the gentleman who was about to sit next to me in 11 delta sat down, he completely displaced my body into the contents of the person next to me. This man was very large, and for the 5 hour duration of the flight I had to lean against the arm rest to my left, in complete pain the entire time. Reseating was not an option as the flight was completely full.

Further, I'd like clarification on what you deem feasible for persons of size not only with individual seating but also in respect to emergency row seating. Let's just say I would not be too comfortable or confident if a situation arose where I had to rely on this gentleman to quickly remove said door.

As a Platinum Elite with your airline I have come to enjoy your professional service. I am not a customer who likes to complain but yesterday was simply unacceptable. My right shoulder and arm today are still sore from yesterday's experience.

I look forward to your feedback.

Regards,

If a Passenger of Size gets crammed in next to you, and you are in the exit row, demand to talk to the Captain and tell the Captain that the pax is too obese to sit in the exit row, and if he is not moved you will call the FAA Flight Standards District Office;.

Good job enviroian, HP and other airlines need to start enforcing a WN-style policy for obese passengers.

Being a tall person, physical comfort is important to me. I start fuming when I hear stories of obese people taking up the space of other passengers, and causing discomfort.

You certainly must be a very tolerant person to put up with that on such a long flight. I can honestly say that I would have raised hell.

Here's what it said:

Dear Mr K,

Thank you for contacting HP.

I regred your discomfort in sitting next to a person whose size exceeded the width of the airline seat. Our large travelers sometimes offer to purchase two seats, for they realize their size may disturb those sitting next to them. As a matter of information, carriers are not required to provide two seats to a large individual if only one seat is purchased. A second seat may be purchased by our customers for their--and your--comfort. As you can imagine, this is a difficult issue which our employees are expected to handle in a sensitive manner. Our agents are expected to use good judgement when seating customers under these circumstances.

As far as the requirements for exit row seating, we ask passengers if they feel they can perform the exit row emergency duties. AS long as they answer in the affirmative, we do not question them.

As a business courtesy, I have enclosed an Air Check Plus certificate for future savings. Thank you again for sharing your concerns. I appreciate your understanding as well as the opportunity to retain you as a loyal customer.

Sincerely,

Roger S
Executive Liaison
Office of the Chairman


Comments? HP has obviously no intention of following WN's guidelines anytime soon (nor does any other airline probably).

I am bothered by the fact that he emphasized AS long as they reply in the affirmative b/c it was quite obvious in an emergency situation, I would have zero confidence in getting out of the plane in any quick manner. His girth alone would have made any potential exitway null and void, let alone having him manipulate the exit door off. Maybe I'm being a little to insensitive, but that's all I could think about on that flight the way home.

Although a nice gesture, the Air Check Plus cert is completely and utterly useless. I can't redeem it online, so for me to save $75 off a $299-$398 ticket and have to lose valuable time and money by driving down to Tempe ticket office or deal with it at an airport for a ticket that probably costs more than the equivelent would be online is a waste.

If it's transferrable, I'll be glad to save you the time of redeeming it. :)

This is an excellent point. I have been in the same situation and was told that HP does not require passengers of size to purchase two seats, but may "suggest" this to a passenger. In addition, I was on a flight recently where a gentleman did purchase two seats. Unfortunately, their computer system did not allow him to check in twice so the "extra" seat was given to another passenger. He brought this to the attention of the FA and the gate agent. Since the flight was oversold, all parties agreed to proceed, and the man was refunded his money for the second ticket. This needs to be addressed.

As far as the emergency exit row, I was informed that the flight attendants are prohibited from relocating the passenger of size even though they may be larger than the door opening because it is a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act. They have the same concerns about a passenger of size not being able to move expeditiously during an evacuation or even becoming a human "plug". Another problem is frail, elderly people who could not possibly open the door. Perhaps letters to FAA addressing these issues are in order. After all, this is not luxury seating, but those passengers seated in these rows have a responsibility to be able to carry out any and all duties that hopefully will never be required!

Hello

As a flight attndt, it is a fine line we have to deal with when it comes to a passenger of size..I agree and wish our airline would make those POS purchase two seats, and if the flight isnt oversold they refund the price of the second seat.

I do try to be proactive and seek any empty seats for the POS or those who are placed into an uncomfortable situation. We may not always be able to reaccommodate you, but we feel for you.

In regards to the exit seating verification, yes we cannot discriminate because they are POS. As long as they verbally agree to performing the duties, we cannot remove them even if they become a "plug" type passenger stuck in the window frame(imagine winnie the pooh syndrome stuck in the tree trunk).

On a humorous note, next time you take a flight, ask a flight attendant to show you a seat belt extention and notice the FAA code sewn on the label. It says...FAA-TSO

In closing, if more passengers would contact the FAA maybe they will require the POS to purchase 2 seats one day.