MilesBuzz! - How to get some sleep on the way to Europe

Hello,

Well, in about a week I will be heading to Europe to look for a job and see some friends.

I have given myself a couple of days to be in London prior to my first interview. However, I would like to try to be as functional as possible for the 10 days I am in Europe.

Any suggestions on what I could be doing to make sure I am well rested? I live on the West Coast (LA). I leave around 9AM from LA and connect through Dulles around 6PM and arrive at 8AM. Should I take sleeping pills? I hear you don't get a good night's sleep that way.

Should I be sleeping at different times prior to leaving?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Richard

You shoul try and sleep as much as possible on your flight from Dulles-London. Upon arriving in London, try to stay awake during the entire day, and call it an early night. That way, your body clock will adjust to the local time by the 2nd morning you are in London.

If you sleep immediately upon arriving in London, it will not allow your body clock to adjust to the local time.

Best Regards,
AK

Alternatively, if you can still change your ticket, you could do a LAX-JFK on your first day so that you arrive at JFK in the evening. Sleep at a hotel nearby, and the next day fly to LHR on the morning flight (UA has one that leaves at 9:00 am, I think). You'll get into Heathrow around 9pm, and if you have a room booked near the airport, you'll get to bed at a decent hour local time, thereby giving your body a chance to adjust the internal clock as quickly as possible. It's a bit more expensive (you have to add the hotel night at JFK), but it'll probably make a huge difference. Night-and-day, literally! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

BTW, since this is an international ticket, the "stopover" in NY shouldn't really count as such (farewise) because it lasts less than 24 hours. Good luck!

I'd suggest doing a day-flight, too. It can make a huge difference.

I would not change your plan, but try to sleep as much as possible in the transatlanctic.
If you are in coach, that is not really easy. Try to get a seat with other seats free around, if possible. Avoid the last seats, where there is more noise. An exit row would be nice, and your advantage is that you can probably get the boarding pass for your second segment 12 hours before other travellers.
Do not keep your shoes, if you are in business, they will give you a pair of socks. If in coach , take one from your home.
Do not drink alcohol, just a glass of RED wine (not white). Do not drink coffee or tee before departing, but DRINK A LOT of water in transatlantic, and in the other one too. You are like at 5 000 feet elevation in a plane, and you need to be careful.
Do not hesitate to move at least once every other hour.

You can miss the movie. Try to get a quick dinner if available. Otherwise, it will take AT LEAST two hours, two and an half after taking off for being ready to sleep, and, do not forget, the night is short.

And, as other said: When arriving, that is just a plain ORDINARY day. Take a shower, that's all.
But you will get some difficulties in the early afternoon.
AND .... you will have difficulty to go to bed in the night. But at 9 pm, try to go sleeping.

Melatonine is the only product that works. You can take one or two pills (buy them in US, you will not find any here in EP)one hour before the time you want to sleep.

Hello,

Thanks for the advice. Could anyone elaborate more on how to use melatonin? I have heard about this, but never tried it before.

Thanks,

Richard

I like the daytime flights - several from JFK: AA/BA/UA/VS, also BOS (AA/BA?) and ORD (AA).

Melatonin is a substance produced naturally and is used by the brain to deepen sleep. It will not make you particularly sleepy but will deepen the sleep you do get thereby making you feel more rested. It would be particularly effective taken the first night you sleep in Europe. 2-5 milligrams should do. I'm not a doctor but both my wife and I have some experience with melatonin.

Originally posted by Roger:
I like the daytime flights - several from JFK: AA/BA/UA/VS, also BOS (AA/BA?) and ORD (AA).

Also CO 10:00am EST from EWR to LGW

Buy eyeshades before you go. Some airlines give them for free (even to economy customers), but the ones you can buy in travel shops are far more comfortable and block out the light better.

If you're in economy, get a window seat. 2 advantages here: (1)No one will need to climb over you and thus wake you up. (2)You can lean against the window/wall for neck support while sleeping.

Have a light dinner at the airport before your trans-Atlantic flight, and then skip the dinner on the plane. This accomplishes several things: more time to sleep, and gets your body closer to European time. When you take a, say, 7pm flight from the east coast, you're lucky if dinner gets served by 8.30. That's 2.30 in the morning in Europe. You're way better off eating before you board. (If you travel business or first on some airlines like BA, you can have dinner in their lounge.)

Eyeshades, ear plugs, pillow from home, take off your shoes,... and I find if I stay up and don't get enough sleep the night before the flight I can sleep better on the flight.

Going back on melatonin (sorry, it's written melatonine in french http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif), it is produced by your body, but depends on the day light.
So, obviously, when you get a jet lag, the time difference need to be compensated, and as long as the compensation is not done, it just meean that the body do not create the melatonin you need, and that is the reason why the one you take help.
Obviously, this is not a pill nor a medicin.

I always bring a big fluffy pillow from home with me. I realize this takes up lots of room in my carry on but the postage stamp size pillows they pass out in coach are useless except for back support. In a window seat, the large pillow fills in all of the cracks between the seat and sides, making a very nice sleeping platform.

There is a maxim in medicine that says when there are many treatments for an illness, none work very well. That is what this sounds like to me. Being a bit of a rebel, I just do what feels right, I drink wine and other liquids, sleep when I can, but do not let it interfere with meals. When I get there I take a nap for 2 - 3 hours when I can, and go on to enjoy the rest of the day. I never even think of jet lag the next day. I think there is no way to avoid being tired when you get there, and a nap seems to recharge the batteries for me. Good luck.

The best way to adjust is to adjust your body clock several days before you leave. Gradually go to bed earlier and earlier on the West Coast till you're awakening at the same time as you would in London. That probably means taking a sleeping pill and going to be at 6pm or so and waking up at 2am. I do this for three or four days before the trip and you'll have "jet-lag" at home instead of on your trip. Start taking the melatonin at home at the same time as your desired bedtime in London. Theoretically it takes one day/hour to adjust the body so it can take up to eight days to adjust to LHR time. Good luck.

Concerning melatonin, what I do is to take two tablets about 30 minutes before I go to bed. I do this for five (5) days after I arrive at the new destination (whether away or back home) after a trans-oceanic flight.

I find it seems to let me sleep through the night rather than awakening at 0200 or something similar and being unable to get back to a sound sleep. That helps me get over the effects of jet lag.

CAVEATS: I am not a medical doctor. I don't know whether the result is influenced by the melatonin or by the placebo effect. I don't know how melatonin would affect anyone else. I am presenting this information as it pertains to me and my experience; this is not to be construed as a suggestion or recommendation to take melatonin or anything else. And your mileage may vary. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Many people also swear by such light sleeping agents at Tylenol PM or Excedrin PM. You may want to try one first though before your leave. And there are some great perscription drugs with no hangover effects if you are a light sleeper.

[This message has been edited by freakflyer (edited 03-17-2001).]

I find Melatonin is very helpful for me.

One of the supposed advantages of Melatonin over a sleeping pill/medication is that it doesn't leave a drowsy hangover. I find this to be generally, but not totally, the case.

The first time I used it was on a flight from LA to Sydney, and it worked like a dream.

It generally takes me 30-60 minutes to fall asleep after taking it.

I am not a doctor either, but I suspect a little red wine also helps in the drowsy dept., but you obviously don't want to get a hangover.

Over the years I have found what works best for me. Of course it may not work for you.
When I am tired I go to sleep.
When I am not tired I do not go to sleep.

I find that I can never sleep on a plane. Not in 1class and not in business. A few trips to Assie and NZ have proven that this will likely always be the case.

Several ideas have been presented to you. I suggest that one based on the overnight on the east coast may prove more dependable. You may be like me, unable to sleep on the plane.

You may also find sensory overload interferring in your sleep. Thinking about the job, visiting friends, a new country (your first trip to London), plane engine noise, etc.

Melatonin is a drug (natural is a red herring, after all lots of things that are bad for us are "natural", produced by our body etc. I suggest that a whole body of evidence suggests Melatonin to be dangerous when taken. I suggest that, while evidence also supports the use, a travel medicine doctor be consulted to measure its safe use by YOU.

I find that sleeping well before traveling safest (depriving sleep, tried once still did not result in sleeping on the plane). If I arrive in the AM, a nap of a few hours is useful. If I arrive in the PM, I try to convert to the local time immediately, but error on an early to bed program. Sleep or not. Fortunately, light and our bodies do react to one another.

Also try not to take all this too seriously, most everyone adjusts in a day or two.

The usual rule is that:
You need as many days to we OK thatn there are hours of time difference.
E;G: JFK-FRA is a 6 hours time difference,
you need approxiamtely 6 days (a short week).

I found this rule true for the 3 years that I spent travelling once the two other weeks between Europe and US.

BUT http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif it is true that if you do it just once, just for one trip, you probably ajust much shorter, I would probably not say 1 day, but 2 or 3. After, you still have a need to go early to bed, but that is OK.

If you do that regularly, you must keep th erule in mind.

Anyway, it is true that million of peaople did it... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

See also:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum94/HTML/002149.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum94/HTML/001272.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum94/HTML/000061.html

I think that Felis has it right--a glass of red wine on board, and then lots of water. I find that it helps to be tired before I depart, such that I'm naturally ready to go to bed regardless of travel. On arrival, I actually try to avoid caffeine until necessary (afternoon?), and instead to go for a long walk/other low-key activity & stimulation. I find that keeping to a regular meal schedule helps a great deal. As several have suggested, an early (but normal) bedtime coupled with a normal (local time) wake-up usually works for me.

This all said, I actually find NYC/BOS-LON to be one of the harder adjustments--the flight is actually too short for m. On slightly longer routes (i.e. for me BOS-CDG/ZRH) I find it somewhat easier to sleep, and generally an easier adjustment.

My general advice is to start eating and drinking on the schedule that you will have at the end of the trip.

As for sleeping on planes, count me among the walking dead - I never get much sleep on planes, either in the front or the back.

Note that Melatonin, as a hormone, is illegal in the UK--not that I have any personal experience of it, but I do know some people have found strange psychological effects.

in my opinion the constant drone of the engines is a major fatigue factor. i got a headphone device @ sharper image that cancels out the worst of the low frquency stuff (noise buster extreme). it was about $15-i've seen it advertised elsewhere for $50. it also has a plug to hook into the standard headphone jack in the seat handle. i luv it. by the way recent studies show melatonin to be a waste of money.

Get a perscription for Ambian (Ambien?).
I went to Paris last year, got onboard, had dinner, took my pill, I'M out. The next thing I know my wife is elbowing me to the sound of "Please bring you trays and seatbacks to an upright position", I felt rested and great, no groginess.
Ambian is designed to get in then out of your system fast, thats why no after effects.I asked some Dr. freinds and they all said it was the best travel medication they knew of today. Like any perscription drug it should be prescribed and not taking with alchol. Consult your physcian.

My friend just takes dramamine, it knocks him out for hours and then he adjusts well to the new day. Of course, I hate this when travelling with him because I never sleep, and thus it is like traveling alone with no one to talk to. I use melatonin, usually 2 tablets 30 or so minutes before I go to bed. Have a good trip

I would second the Ambien recommendation. I travel to SFO-Europe every six weeks, and swear by it. Get on the plane, take one with dinner, and sleep until just before landing. It does not leave you "slow", as I have found is the case with melatonin (at least for me). The only drawback is it does require a doctor's prescription.

Since you don't have to be at your peak the first day, you might try this non-chemical approach that works for me after an overnight flight: force yourself to stay up during the day (good for low-pressure sightseeing, such as a city tour by bus), eat an early dinner, and go to sleep for 10-12 hours. The next day I feel well rested and on local time.

I would try the following:

1) Get on a direct flight if possible from LAX.

2) For the transatlantic flight, eat before you board the plane.

3) Get a window seat.

4) Have eyeshades and ear plugs.

5) If you have trouble sleeping on planes, than I would recommend Melatonin as others have mentioned.

6) I personally prefer overnight flights, the longer the better (I know some people think I'm mad wanting a longer flight but I get more time to sleep!). Hence my preference for a direct from LAX to LHR.

Have a good trip!

I, too, swear by Ambien. Keep in mind that it's designed to be out of your system in about 7 hours, so you'll want to take it as soon as the flight leaves Dulles, or maybe even as soon as you board. Don't take it with alcohol.

Other than that, I can also heartily endorse the eyeshade and the use of my own pillow, as well as plenty of sunlight the morning you arrive in the U.K. (In general, try to get plenty of sunlight when your body would rather be sleeping -- which would be mornings there.)

I refuse to take any "natural" products, either OTC or Rx. Insomnia seems to be common in my family, and I think that the pills just make it worse. Be careful.

I avoid alcohol, no matter how impressive the wine list. I drink lots and lots of water, and occasionally have a diet coke but I try to stick with water and not carbonated beverages.

No specific suggestions for coach sleeping beyond what has been said, but definitely get some good eyeshades and if possible noise-canceling headsets.

I think you should try to get on the nonstop, as you'll have much more time to sleep. For example, 1st or biz you can do the whole meal service and still have plenty of time to sleep. On a northeast departure you don't have enough time to do the dinner and still sleep. Let alone have both dinner and breakfast.

In my experience I am getting more/better sleep on the flights departing later from the US, because it is closer to my natural sleep time from where I am starting out.
Hence, try to get the 1 p.m. flight out of LAX connecting to the evening departure in Washington or better yet ORD.

Another vote for Ambien. Works like a charm. I take the 10mg dose about 30 minutes before departure in the lounge. (But be careful if the flight will be delayed). Immediately upon takeoff, the seat goes back, the eyeshades go on, the earplugs go in. I sleep until wheels down every time.

Originally posted by flyer2001:
You shoul try and sleep as much as possible on your flight from Dulles-London. Upon arriving in London, try to stay awake during the entire day, and call it an early night. That way, your body clock will adjust to the local time by the 2nd morning you are in London.

If you sleep immediately upon arriving in London, it will not allow your body clock to adjust to the local time.

Best Regards,
AK

All great advice, especially the part about staying up when you get to London--very important. I usually have a few gin and tonics to aid the sleep process...

One thing that I would like to add regarding sleep medication-its effect is very dependent upon your alcohol and food consumption. A full stomach will dilute and prolong the effect of the medication. Alcohol will increase the effect of the medication.

My routine is this: I start out on a fairly empty stomach. I order 1 cocktail, and let it sit until I see the food coming. Then I take the medication and drink the cocktail. When I first feel the medication take effect, I eat.

Years ago, I ate a wonderful big meal before a flight. The medication only made me feel tired, and I was really tired after a transatlantic flight with no sleep.

If you have not taken the medication before, that you plan to take on the flight, you would be well advised to try it out a week or two before you leave. Flying on a transatlantic flight is not a good place to find out how your body responds to your first dose of any medication.

Good luck!! Have a great trip.

I find that I'm jetlagged far worse coming back from Europe than I am going over. I usually sleep about two hours going east, grab a short (1 hour max) nap on my hotel, and then have a normal day in Europe - getting to bed a bit early (10PM or so). By the morning of Day 2, I'm completely 'normal'.

Coming back it brutal for me - mainly because I can't jump on a plane at noon and fall asleep for 2-3 hours, in any class. I spend the first 3 or 4 days back in the states waking up (unprovoked) at 5:30AM and going to sleep at 9PM.

I've never experimented with drugs for these trips. I usually don't party hard on the plane - just 1 or 2 drinks, then a lot of water. I always eat the meals.

I generally don't watch the movie because it's always some piece of trash that I avoided when it was at the theaters.

Pillows and masks help, but I find it hard to sleep more than an hour or two in coach, regardless of the situation.

ANOTHER VOTE FOR AMBIEN 10MG!

I don't believe in complicated schemes for medication, sleep deprivation, etc. What I do is:
1) sleep early and get up early for a few days before travel (to mimic UK time).
2) use noise cancelling headphones, ear plugs, and eyeshades.
3) sleep as soon as you get on the transatlantic flight, skipping the meal, even if you don't want to skip a free meal. Use the anoxic drowsiness that is common during takeoff to try to fall asleep.
4) If you are tired in London on arrival, sleep, don't toruture yourself. However, a set amount of naptime (some say 30-60 minutes) will make you more rested, yet not affect the sleep cycle much.
5) careful when crossing the street as the car come from the opposite direction than you expect.

Personally, I learned not to force my body to do anything because is futile. I have tried meditation, melanolin, sleeping pills and nothing works for me. If you are going on a business trip, you might want to get there 1-2 earlier to allow some "extra cushion" to get adjusted (same on the way back..by the way, I tend to agree that coming back westbound from Europe to USA is worse).

When you arrive at your destination, take a nice hot bath or shower and go to sleep. Go to bed and wake up when your body tells you to. Eventually you will get accustomed to your new time zone.

Isn't sleeping on aircraft associated with blood clots/DVT ?.

The advice I've received is not sleep unless in a flat bed seat.

Sleep for twenty or so minutes at a time may be ok but knocking yourself out with any medication for a long time sounds dangerous. The clots form in your immobile legs and work their way to your heart etc.

Any medical people on this board who can advise ?

I believe that one of the best ways to prevent DVT is to stay well-hydrated. Limit intake of booze and coffee, etc. I don't know if the CNS depressants like Ambien would be an issue. I've used it on transcons for years, and I don't think I move around much when I am fastened under my blanket asleep. Good question.

Drinking lots of fluid is great but doesn't that make you go to the lavs often? How can one get sleep when feeling the urge to relieve constantly?

I'm not a doctor. But I am well versed in sleep aids. If you take Ambien (the name comes from AM=morning and bien=good) tray it at home first. For most of us taking it in the lounge prior to boarding is not recommended. Also, do not mix with booze. I have one friend that fell asleep while on the phone talking to his wife, and another that remained asleep as the aircraft was deplaned.

Originally posted by aw:
Drinking lots of fluid is great but doesn't that make you go to the lavs often? How can one get sleep when feeling the urge to relieve constantly?

Obviously it does.
So my other advice was to get an aisle, not a window. No desription needed.
Anyway, you NEED absolutely to walk from time to time.
Anyway, except for some of us, you do not really sleep very well.

Drinking (water, and a glass of RED wine, not white) PLUS walking are the two points.