MilesBuzz! - Petty revenge on Airline Employees

As much as I hate to admit it, there are times when I'm just down-right furious at an airline employee working a gate or ticket counter. This is very different from times when I'm mad at the airline itself, or flight crews. When I've absolutely had it with a ticket or gate agent, I've discovered there is something I can do to get immediate satisfaction. And yes, as the title indicates, it's pretty darn petty.

I ask for a complete copy of their airline's contract of carriage. Legally, they have to give it to me.

It's very long, and at most airlines, it's stored in a lot of separate records -- upwards of 30. So, they have to print the index, and then individually pull up and print out all of the other sections by PNR. It usually takes the agent between 15 and 25 minutes to do it -- durring which time they can't do anything else.

Yes, it's petty, but sometimes it's the only way.

Also -- you'd be amazed at some of the stuff in there that the airlines promise to do. It's definitely a worthwhile read...

Have you ever been concerned that some unflattering information may end up in your record with the airline. Many have reported on this site of seeing information that the airline has placed on their permanent record.

I would be concerned that by venting on the one agent I am going to have trouble down the road. Just my two cents.

I understand your need to vent....but, I hope that there is no one in line behind you (I'd be pretty peeved if you did that while I was waiting behind you).

Also, wouldn't a more suitable approach simply be to get his/her name and position, and write a nasty letter? I know that takes time, but it could be done while en route on your laptop while the thoughts and details are still fresh. The employee will more than certainly at least have to answer for the problem, and a pattern of poor behavior will lead to either rehabilitation of the attitude, or to disciplinary action.

My two cents!

The employee will more than certainly at least have to answer for the problem,

I think the odds are greatly against this. I think most if not virtually all complaint letters get a response and the complaint does not go further than a Customer Service/Relations rep.

That said, I don't agree with tying up the gate agent!

In a humorous vein, for evidence that a complaint letter does not change a rep's behavior, not only has koko not been able to get the IAD 1K center folks to help him, they may start throwing darts at his picture now that Oz planted the idea. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

...As you can see from my UserName, I have had a bit of experience in this area.....I was also a ticket agent, and spent 6 1/2 years in passenger service with an airline which will remain unnamed....

Sure you are going to hack off the agent, but what possible good will this do but to get your blood pressure down a bit!...He will just laugh about it when he goes to the break room and tells his co-workers about it... You are doing no good going this route at all, and just hurting yourself in the short and long-run.

A very good-natured passenger of mine laughingly told me one day (obviously a VERY FF)...."There are 3 people in this world you don't want to P--- Off!....-Judges, Traffic Cops, and Airline Gate/Ticket Agents"....You don't know how right he was! Granted, this incident probably won't be written up by the airline employee, but I know for a fact, that the airline I worked for had a file of "Chronic Complainers" and other people that gave them trouble....I have been told that some FF'ers were told "Thank you for your business, but from now on please take your business elsewhere".....

Just keep in mind, especially in this day and time, when the customer is treated with contempt and arrogance by the agents (not all of course), your worse course would be to be to do something to make them make you 'Persona non-grata' with the airline.

It CAN happen and does....I am grateful that I have been on the other side of the fence, behind the counter, and can see pretty much exactly what the agent is dealing with....I have walked in those shoes, and although I get hacked off a LOT of times, too, now as a fare-paying passenger, that really makes me back off and have a bit of compassion and understanding!

I worked my way through University working as a ticket and gate agent in SFO.

I think you should follow the advice of rrz518. Every letter that was sent to customer service or the CEO made its way to SFO if the station was mentioned.

Every letter that mentioned an agent's name was sent to SFO after a response was sent to the PAX. The letters were placed in the agent's file, good or bad and the agents were rewarded or reprimanded. They were also posted in the break room under good or bad letters. The letters that mentioned agents names in a negative context had the agents name blacked out. The positive letters kept the agents name readable.

Don't forget you can send positive letters as well.

By the way, I never once received a negative letter and every other month or so I received a positive letter from a PAX.

Having once worked in reservations prior to customer service, I can assure you if someone is a real jerk we put notes in the PNR. Thinks like..
Mr/Ms so-and-so was advised such-and-such
(rules, changes, penalties, fees etc)
at least xxx times and was nasty and irate, was given to a supervisor for further clarification etc....The outcome is then noted by the supvr in the PNR.
I felt this was a courtesy to the next agent that had to deal with this thick-headed moron who was going to call back a hundred times until he/she got the answer THEY wanted.
The only drawback is if such a moron is rude enough to lean over and look onto the computer at the ticket counter or gate and see the remarks - this might (but not likely) get the reservationist in trouble for putting in the remarks.
In any case, he/she moron is extremely rude and out of line for stepping into space they don't belong in (on the other side of the counter/gate)

2Many. As much as I sympathise, I am just afraid that you may score an own goal. I rather agree that if you fall upon someone really poisonous, and really spiteful who knows what they might write about you in your record. You will probably never know for certain. Can I make a suggestion? What I do is to go to a free desk (a rareity), or to the Club whether I am entitled to it or not, and ask who the duty Manager is, and get him paged if there is time, or at least an email address if there is not. It deals with the situation while it is still hot. I have even had operational upgrades as a result. You admit that it is petty,which is honest. Let me tell you I had an insufferable check-in person who decided to make a big deal about my carry on, on a Club Class flight to Faro. She insisted that it was to be checked, I told her that it would not.The case had been perfectly fine on the flight the day before. I lost patience when she said "You are not going to throw a tantrum over this are you, Sir?" I replied that should I throw a tantrum, Gatwick would stop to watch. I declined to check in, and took my ticket away. I went and asked to see the Terminal Manager. He came and I related the story, he immediately instructed his staff to check me in, and gave me my Boarding Passes. He evidently had received complaints about her attitude before. I am not saying that it always worked, but I could see no point in continuing the discussion. I do not throw Tantrums (is that the correct plural, should it be Tantra?) as then you have totally lost the deal. I am not using this as a forum to show off, or to whinge about some poor treatment, I am merely offering an alternative to your strategy. Go to the top, after the others have had their chance to put matters right.

(YOu should have seen what else was taken on that plane as cabin baggage! Ah well, two wrongs never made a right!)

I'd have to agree w/ rrz518 here. If it is you and only you in line, great and good for you. The last time I tried this I was told I could get their 'terms' if I wanted to take the next flight b/c they didn't know where it was. Anyway, if I'm behind you I'll take it personally and not be snickering at your prank. Unless it's Vegas and there's a slot w/in arms reach that is.

Originally posted by PAUL PALMER:
<snip> she said "You are not going to throw a tantrum over this are you, Sir?" I replied that should I throw a tantrum, Gatwick would stop to watch.

<snip>

I do not throw Tantrums (is that the correct plural, should it be Tantra?)

<snip>

Tantra as in Kama Sutra? I should say that all of Gatwick would stop to watch http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

CHeers,

birdstrike

Even when my emotions rage inside, I achieve enormous dividends at the front counter and gate with a smile, cheerful demeanor, patience, and polite questions. This approach also helps me keep my own blood pressure in check.

I sort of like the idea mentioned, with the print out, just for the sake of having never read the print out, it would make good reading on the plane. However, I would probably wait for a quiet time to ask for such a print out, or maybe ask that it is printed out and I would pick it up a few days later on the return.

I seldome get mad at gate agents or counter staff (however at ASA, there is no other options many times if you want to get to where you are going.) Normally, I just silently take names and write letters to govt agencies that insure the people are dealt with.

I had a very bad experience in gatwick several years ago. The AA staff were very unfriendly and wrong in what they did. I even got the business card from the duty manager who even admitted that even though I was correct, she was unwilling to do anything about it. Becuase I made such a fuss to no avail, I have avoided flying AA into or out of Gatwick since then.

Just the thought that they might remeber me (not very likely) and single me out for more misdeeds becuase of my past encounters is enough to fly another airline if I have to fly into Gatwick. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

On a related note, I have often thought that many frequent flyers and some of the gate agents and ticket agents that deal with us should take conflict management courses. There are many methods to resolve conflicts effectively, and ways to defuse situations quickly. These disputes usually boil down to a fairly insignificant thing in the grand scheme of the world.

deleted

[This message has been edited by zrs70 (edited 03-15-2001).]

The best trick I have found when dealing with horrible gate or ticket agents it to take out the mobile phone and call the airlines. Tell them the problem and see what they say. One time, the reservations agent on the phone got a supervisor who then got on the phone with the gate agent at the airport. It was quite a scene. The gate agent hung up the phone and within 5 minutes there were coat and tie people (the suites) from management at the gate. I was the hit of the day for the rest of the PAX.

Interesting discussion guys, but this thread is waaaaay off-topic for this forum.

Any of you wonder why the likes of PremEx and Jon Toner left these boards? Let's do our best to lower the noise-to-signal lest Flyertalk become just a satellite of Usenet.

Just a quick remark on airlines staff adding comments to their records about passengers.

In Europe, the airline (or any other organisation) has to disclose any information they hold on computer about you at your request (under recent European Directives). This would apply to AA, United etc operating in Europe.

So if you think someone has written something and you are in Europe,just ask for your record (politely and reasonably). They may of course remove the information before they print off your record but in a couple of years we should see the end of this practice.


"Just my two euros worth"

I got into an argument with a commuter airline gate agent once. One favorite method used by agents in an argument is "you are going to miss your flight." Usually if this line is used I just say "ok," which shocks them. So one gate agent was saying I would miss my flight, and then the gate agent next to him said I still had plenty of time to wait for a supervisor. I found it interesting that agent no. 2 did not go along with 1's ploy to try to make me think I would miss the flight. I even told 2 "I relly think I might miss this flight," and she just said no you have plenty of time. Then two supervisors came and met me, and the three of us took the bus out to the plane discussing what had happened. I got the name/tel#'s of the supervisors. It must have been quite a sight on the bus. Then I was on the return portion of the trip the next day. When I got to the station with the problem, I was met at the gate by the supervisor who I had talked to the day before, as well as her manager. They gave me a memo that they circulated to the agents about the issue in question, etc. I'm sure anytime if I needed a change fee waiver or upgrade, etc. I could call the supervisor/manager because they did not provide any comp. Note in general you should try to use these situations to meet somebody from the airline. The supervisors have enormously broad discretion, and they can waive nearly any rule or policy if you are a "friend," etc. I have a few people I know, who I have mainly met re complaints, and I can basically just call them if I need a change fee waiver, upgrade, etc. I have not though been able to get comp international upgrades.

Essxjay,

While I don't like the title of the thread... I find this thread to be a very relevant subject. Especially in light of the recent Dateline story. Seems like Buzz to me!

Just my two cents.

William

Originally posted by essxjay:
Interesting discussion guys, but this thread is waaaaay off-topic for this forum.

Any of you wonder why the likes of PremEx and Jon Toner left these boards? Let's do our best to lower the noise-to-signal lest Flyertalk become just a satellite of Usenet.

I agree that it should be in General TravelTalk, but I don't think it's "noise".

PremEx and Jon Toner left the boards because they wanted to make a big fuss about how important they are and how they cannot refrain from reading topics they don't like.

Originally posted by essxjay:
Interesting discussion guys, but this thread is waaaaay off-topic for this forum.

Any of you wonder why the likes of PremEx and Jon Toner left these boards? Let's do our best to lower the noise-to-signal lest Flyertalk become just a satellite of Usenet.

I agree that it should be in General TravelTalk, but I don't think it's "noise".

PremEx and Jon Toner left the boards because they wanted to make a big fuss about how important they are and how they cannot refrain from reading topics they don't like.

Knowing personally two of the posters to this discussion I have been sitting here and laughing myself silly. To my best UK buddy.......when you decide to throw your tantrum.....I beg of you do it when I'm there *please*. To my young and very gracious host in Boston..we've had this discussion already.

As far as putting comments in records, there are not nearly as many comments in records as most people think. Fortunately or not we are not as important as we think we are. I've seen hundreds of thousands of records and generally you have to be a pretty bad actor to get comments. Even though there are comments screens on accounts there are very few that have anything negative in them. The ones that are bad enough to have comments in them are people that probably shouldn't ask for any special favors as they won't be forthcoming. As I have said before 99 and 9/10% of FF's are really great people. The other 1/10% we mainly shrug off.

Just two cents worth from a current res agent.

------------------
Anything posted by this user is in no way shape or form sponsored or sanctioned by American Airlines or AMRCORP

The worst thing isn't the nasty agents, of who there are incredibly few, but the incompetent ones.

When you ask an agent to do something, and they say they'll deal with it, and 2 hours later as the plane's boarding you find they haven't done a thing, it's too late to call in supervisors.

Of course, if you keep checking on them and hassling them instead of leaving them to it, they will think you're being a pest.

The other problem is agents who are simply too ignorant to realise that what they are saying/doing won't work out right. (And this may be the airline's fault as much as theirs.)

I know for a fact that comments had been put in my record by a NW phone agent (unjustifiably, IMO). I found this out when I checked in for the flight, and the agent told me "Wow, someone really doesn't like you." The gate agent then told me that I seemed much nicer than those comments and would put those comments in accordingly.

A friend of mine has a relative who is a CS supervisor at NWA, who looked them over and told me that that agent who put the negative comments in my record had a history of putting nasty comments in customers' records as a power trip.

I cannot imagine ever being gratuitously mean to one of the very few people in the world who can move me from Y to F without my giving up miles or coupons in return.

Are they perhaps legally bound to disclose these "records?"

Originally posted by doc:
Are they perhaps legally bound to disclose these "records?"

Why would they be? They are just a business trying to keep a record of its customers.

Originally posted by wharvey:
Essxjay,

While I don't like the title of the thread... I find this thread to be a very relevant subject. Especially in light of the recent Dateline story. Seems like Buzz to me!

I agree that it's a good discussion (and BTW, JS, I never suggested that this thread was noise), but it doesn't belong in a forum that's specifically for new ways to earn miles and points. The General TravelTalk forum was created for threads that don't have anything to do with accumulating miles. When Flyertalk becomes moderated in the not-too-distant future, threads like these will proabably be moved to the appropirate forum anyway. We all might as well get use to the posting guidelines now.

Jetsetter,
I'm sure you are just another squeaky wheel that get's oiled. You should just deal directly with the supervisors you have "contact" with and avoid the counter and gate agents all together. Most (not all) but most supervisors I have known who have had to enter any type of "fray" will just wave their magic wand and give the customer anything they want. Instead of working with their own employees they work against them. They are the same people, when behind the scenes, expect us to adhere to the letter of the (airline's)law. However, if they are called upon to step in they then break every law in the book to either
a) Get the obnoxious moron out of their face.
b) Look like a hero.
All they are doing is watering down their own airline's rules of travel making it more and more difficult for any other employees to really adhere to these rules. Total contradiction. So, just scream and yell and jump up and down and you will get what you want.

I'm surprised that the airlines would keep anything negative in a customer's records. For one thing, the statements are one-sided, with no opportunity for a passenger to enter anything.

Secondly, such records are of course discoverable. If an airline acted such that it was necessary to bring an action against it, such records could show a history and an intent of singling out a specific customer for lesser treatment. Why would they want to do this, when all the customer would have to do is deny that the bad incident depicted in the record happened?

> when dealing with horrible gate or ticket
> agents it to take out the mobile phone
> and call the airlines.

Great recommendation!

I first used this tactic last year at San
Antonio (SAT). Somehow; my assigned exit
row aisle had been reassigned to someone who
turned out to be a non-rev AA-SAT worker.
All this 3+ hours before departure.

The agent [played?] dumb. It took the ExPl
desk rep maybe 40 minutes, but she seemed
really steamed and finally corrected the
situation.

I was astonished at how frank she was re:
what had occurred ... and that I was even
permitted to participate in the c/call
involving AA-SAT, ExPl desk and something
called "Seats." She certainly earned the
SOS that I sent.

-Doug