Europe - decisions, decisions- Can you help?

My daughter(dd) and I are planning a trip to Italy in Sept 2005. This will be our 1st visit. We will be staying in Rome. Due to dd's job restrictions on the number of days off allowed, this will be a short trip- 7 to 8 days. We handled a trip to Paris/London 3 years ago with the same time restriction.

For the expert travelers out there, I'm hoping you can give me suggestions for our trip:

1) We will be staying in Rome. Since some of our days will be used to travel outside Rome, what are your top must see places in Rome with a shortened schedule?

2) We would like to visit Florence, Siena, and Pisa. Will the same train stop at all three destinations? What are the must sees in Florence and Siena? We've figured out the primary must see in Pisa. lol

3) We also hope to take the train to Venice. Your must sees here? Sure the canals, but what else?

4) We took the train from Paris to London 2nd class. The return trip we upgraded to 1st class. How crowded can we expect the trains to be in September? From your personnel experience, do you think we would be happier with 1st class? I have a disability, wear a brace on one leg and need some leg room. I also will be transporting a walker with its own seat. Would storage be a problem in 2nd class? Does the train system have any fare discounts or special accomations for disabled passengers? Should we buy the tickets here or wait until we get to Rome?

Any additional tips that you can offer would be appreciated. The last 2 years, I have been in to cruising and found a similar forum at cruisecritic.com. Looks like I have a new addiction. I just discovered this forum last night and already I am having a hard time breaking away- there is just so much to read.

Kathy

Welcome to Flyertalk, Kathy.

I'll leave the experts to answer your specific questions, but here are a couple of general points:

1) The best place to look up European train connections is www.bahn.de (it comes up in German, the "English" link, somewhere on the left, takes you straight to the English version of the timetable look-up tool)

2) You may want to consider getting a "Trenitalia" railpass. As a UK resident I would buy it here (http://www.railchoice.co.uk/trenitalia/information.asp?aid=&prodid=7); I believe there is a similar site for the US market.

You would like to accomplish so much for your first trip in such a short time, so I would actually suggest that you take a 10 day tour, such as a Perillo Tour... http://www.perillotours.com/ They are probably the best because they include 2 meals a day and are strictly 1st Class! I think that they have a 3 city, 10 day Rome, Florence, and Venice tour.

The reason that I recommend them is because a few years ago I was in Rome on business accompanied by my wife and then 12 year old daughter. It was June and business developments necessitated that I return exactly 12 days later in order to meet with high government officials. Rather than return home to So. California, on the advice of my brother I phoned Perillo Tours in the US and asked if they had any 1 week tours we could join up with already in Italy for Land only, no air. We had never taken a tour before, but were well traveled and familiar with Italy, having been there many times previously. Perillo arranged for us to meet up with a group arriving in Rome the next day and we spent 10 days with the group, suprisingly enjoying it very much! They were 1st Class all the way... The hotels were excellent and meals included wines and often entertainment. The tour group was set at about 36 people and traveled between cities in air conditioned, luxury coaches with toilets. We have never taken another tour, but have stayed in some of the same hotels on subsequent visits.

That is a lot for a short trip. We did Rome-Venice in 10 days in August '03: 3 nights in Rome, 2 in Florence, 1 near Pisa, 2 in Bologna and 1 in Venice (arrived early for BLQ, left late 2nd day so two days for 1 nights accomodation which isn't a bad idea though Sept will be cheaper). We drove from Rome downtown to Bologna airport (no drop-fee from Hertz), then took the train to Venice.

Here's a good train map: http://downloads.raileurope.com/map_of_europe/italy.html

The places to stop Rome-Florence are easier to see by car hence we drove. For Bologna-Venice 1st class wasn't much more than 2nd so we thought it was worth it. I'd book when you get there (though perhaps take a trip to the staion the first day to be safe) - the station machines are easy to use and it seemed cheaper than raileurope, etc.. Never managed to work out how to book on www.trenitalia.it but it will give schedules/prices, and actually seems to be simpler now.

For seven days I'd have 2 in Rome (1 for Vatican side, 1 for Roman sites), 1 from Rome to Florence (via Siena, Tuscany), 1 in Florence (more if you like spending a lot of time in galleries/museums), 1 for Florence to Bologna (bulk of day in Bologna) and 2 in Venice (just wandering around!).

I've left off Pisa as I thought it was a total waste of time, worth 90 mins max with only 1 site: not somewhere where pictures can't do justice. That time, and travelling time is better spent basically anywhere else. I assume (trying not to cause offense) you would not be able to climb the tower. The same for Florence and Siena, sadly, but the belltower in Venice has a lift ^ .

Hope that helps!

That is a pretty ambitious schedule for a short period. I gather you're basing yourself in Rome and then play to do day trips to the other cities.

If you haven't already bought your plane tickets, I would suggest buying an open-jaw and flying into Rome and out of Venice. This will save you a lot of travel time. Instead of basing yourself in Rome, spend two to three nights there and then move on, spending a couple of nights in Florence and a few in Venice.

Venice is a place to wander, explore and get lost in. Don't set an itinerary.

Trains in Italy can always be very crowded. You could be jammed together and standing for several hours. To avoid that, you need advance seat reservations. Given your disability, I also wonder if you wouldn't be more comfortable going in a coach. Also, realize that Venice is very much a walking city. There's really no other way to get around.

Thank you all for the information in helping me plan our trip.

Aviatrix, I have bookmarked the website for the train and have been looking at the schedules.

prspad, I wish we could do a 10-day trip, but we have to complete our trip in 8-days. We did Paris and London in 8- days. It was a fast trip, but amazingly, we saw everything that we had hoped to see.

pauldb, My daughter has her heart set on going to Pisa, even if we pop in-n-out just to see the tower. Actually, I will probably be able to climb the tower. When we were in Paris, I was able to climb to the top of Sacre Couer. I held on to the railing and went slow. My darling daughter carried my walker up and down the entire way so that I would not miss out on the experience. When we were in London, I did some climbing to the first level for viewing at St. Pauls. At least there, they had a place that my walker could be left and watched. I do like the scheduling that you provided,- gives me a lot to think about.

letiole, Yes, it is an ambitious schedule, but we will have a great time. I thought about an open-jaw ticket but I was concerned that it would cost more than a straight round-trip. I will check it out. I definitely plan on getting a reserved seat on the train and still considering 1st class.

I'm going to try to see the travel agent today.

Thanks!

I thought about an open-jaw ticket but I was concerned that it would cost more than a straight round-trip. I will check it out.

Yes, do look into it. It may be exactly the same price, and if it is a bit more, keep in mind if you stay in Rome you will be spending an awful lot of time on trains and figure in the additional cost of the trains (Rome-Florence-Rome, Rome-Venice-Rome versus Rome-Florence-Venice). I think it would be near impossible to go to from Rome to Venice and back in a day.It's about 5 hours each way via train.

If you dont have much time, I would suggest spending 2-3 days in Rome and then take the evening train from Rome to Florence; spend a couple of days in Florence, then another evening train from Florence to Venice. You can then fly out of Venice at the end of the trip.

By using the evenings to transfer between cities, you will be able to maximise your day-time in each city. Only downside is that you will loose out on the "night life" during your evening transfers.

You will be able to see most of the main sights (incl Pisa :) ) with 2-3 days in each city.

2) We would like to visit Florence, Siena, and Pisa. Will the same train stop at all three destinations? What are the must sees in Florence and Siena? We've figured out the primary must see in Pisa. lol
Kathy

Kathy, if you can do the open-jaw, it would save you a lot of time. Keep in mind that you can start in Rome or Venice, depending on the flights, and work your vacation in one direction. We've done it both ways, and even ended once in Florence, and flew out from there.

Do your side trips to Siena and Pisa (I would add Lucca to the Pisa trip..they are very close, with connecting bus service) from Florence. The bus service is fast, comfortable, extremely cheap, and on time. Both bus stations (Lazzi and Sita) are right by the Florence train station, and drop off right in the center of Lucca and Siena. If you do tours, keep San Gimignano in mind with Siena, since they can be combined. We drove once, and took the bus once, and would never drive again to these cities.

That is a nice easy way to see a variety of places without dragging luggage and catching trains and taxis. We loved it last summer and are going on a different route and cities this coming summer.

If you dont have much time, I would suggest spending 2-3 days in Rome and then take the evening train from Rome to Florence; spend a couple of days in Florence, then another evening train from Florence to Venice. You can then fly out of Venice at the end of the trip.

By using the evenings to transfer between cities, you will be able to maximise your day-time in each city. Only downside is that you will loose out on the "night life" during your evening transfers.

You will be able to see most of the main sights (incl Pisa :) ) with 2-3 days in each city.
Today, someone at work gave me the idea of also flying into Milan and heading straight to Venice, followed by Florence/Sienna and then on to Rome and fly out from there. Same basic concept but she thought flying into Milan might save a little train time.


Kathy, if you can do the open-jaw, it would save you a lot of time. Keep in mind that you can start in Rome or Venice, depending on the flights, and work your vacation in one direction. We've done it both ways, and even ended once in Florence, and flew out from there..
I have been checking on the open-jaw trips and there does not seem to be much of a cost difference.


How about a 7 day Med cruise?

That is a nice easy way to see a variety of places without dragging luggage and catching trains and taxis. We loved it last summer and are going on a different route and cities this coming summer.
Oh, how I would love to do this type of trip. Unfortunately, when you add on the flying time and factor in my budget, it isn’t in the cards this year.

Thanks for the helpful ideas offered. :)

I booked our trip this last week and used some of the suggestions offered. We are flying into Milan and taking the train to Venice for just one night. We will then be off to Florence for two nights followed by three nights in Rome. We return home from Rome.

I know it will be a rushed trip, but I'm sure we will be able to see most all we hoped to for our first trip.

Now, I'm working on learning some Italian.

Ciao!

Have a GREAT trip, and report back how it went. Here's a good starting place for the basics:

http://www.fodors.com/language/

Thanks for the link. I also bought Instant Immersion Italian so I can study up on Italian while I am driving.