Newsstand - The Times: Irish students spurn Fortress America

Yesterday's Times carried a story entitled "Irish students declare war on their US rite of passage". Here's an extract:

"FOR years it was the dream of every self-respecting Irish student: after a year denouncing British oppression in the college bar, the only way to spend the summer was sipping Guinness surrounded by plastic leprechauns in a Boston pub.

Five years ago, thousands of students camped out overnight to get a visa to spend four months in the Irish-loving paradise of Bill Clinton and the Kennedys. Now George W. Bush is begging them to visit...

Ireland’s youth is so out of love with America that the number of students applying for a summer visa scheme has halved within a year.

As he embarked on a tour of universities and colleges last week, James Kenny, the US Ambassador, said that recapturing Ireland’s youth was “hugely important for us” and admitted that a wave of anti-Americanism was stopping many students visiting the US.

Referring to a slump in applications for the J1 summer visa programme, from 6,500 in 2003 to 2,800 last year, Mr Kenny said: “We were pretty disappointed. What we hope to do is get the numbers back up to where they were previously to 2004. I hope that we can make it easier and more welcoming for people.”

Until recently, a summer in the US was a rite of passage for Irish students, with more than 150,000 taking advantage of the J1 scheme since it was established in 1966.

Under the scheme anybody at university in the Republic and Northern Ireland can spend up to four months living and working in the US... Even those most in favour of the scheme said yesterday that it appeared to be in danger of collapsing... All applicants have to sit an interview at the US Embassy in Dublin and to provide two “inkless” digital fingerprints.

John Collins, 21, from Dublin, who is studying business studies at Trinity College, said that there was no way that he would consider going to the US. “It’s ridiculous that you have to go for an interview at the US Embassy,” he said. “We are students going to have fun for the summer; we are no threat to US national security.”

He said that he and five friends had decided to go to Canada this summer, where work visas can be obtained over the internet.

Orlagh Clynch, 19, from Tallaght, outside Dublin, who is studying nursing at Trinity College, said: “I don’t even think I’d go on a holiday to America.”

We've talked in a number of threads and different fora before about how the US's anti-tourist/immigrant/student policies might eventually come back to bite it in the behind. I think they will.

The US desperately needs foreigners to come here and spend money. We (literally) can't afford to turn too many people off, or the economy will be headed south pretty quickly.

Five years ago, thousands of students camped out overnight to get a visa to spend four months in the Irish-loving paradise of Bill Clinton and the Kennedys

A lot of things have changed in 5 years.


All applicants have to sit an interview at the US Embassy in Dublin and to provide two “inkless” digital fingerprints. John Collins, 21, from Dublin, who is studying business studies at Trinity College, said that there was no way that he would consider going to the US. “It’s ridiculous that you have to go for an interview at the US Embassy,” he said. “We are students going to have fun for the summer; we are no threat to US national security.”

Well John you and your buddies may not be a threat to national security but who knows about the other 2,795 applicants. :eek: Whats the big deal? You have to give fingerprints and have an interview to visit another country which has a war going on, after that the program sounds generous.


He said that he and five friends had decided to go to Canada this summer, where work visas can be obtained over the internet.


See ya, John and all the money you and your college friends were going to spend, glad you got your visa on the internet :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Many things did change, such as the economy and the security issues.

I echo the common sentiments on security.

The #'s might actually be involved to the economy.

A short while ago, I read an article about how disenchanted some young Irish were when they actually got to the US on such type of visits in previous summers. They hoped to land jobs here, work hard to save money for when they get back home for college.

The article went on to say that they were struggling to find jobs, and most came away without one.

I have no doubt that they are aware how rough a job market is in certain areas of the U.S., and because of that, they might have chose to go elsewhere.

Well John you and your buddies may not be a threat to national security but who knows about the other 2,795 applicants. :eek: Whats the big deal? You have to give fingerprints and have an interview to visit another country which has a war going on, after that the program sounds generous.
A war!?! Get the blackout curtains! Aaaahhhh! :eek:

Why should they be bothered by silly US restrictions when perfectly good alternatives don't make them jump through the same silly hoops? It's a marketplace and they're going to the places that are offering the most competitive propositions. Eventually I suspect competitive forces will force the US to scale back our recently enacted anti-foreign tourism/business/student policies. Either that, or we'll run the economy aground.

A war!?! Get the blackout curtains! Aaaahhhh! :eek:
Might want to get a Kevlar Helmet, Vest and night vision goggles, too. ;)

Why should they be bothered by silly US restrictions when perfectly good alternatives don't make them jump through the same silly hoops?
Exactly my point. Go somewhere else, if you dont want to follow the rules.

Doppy, I want people to come and visit here. These students are not coming for a week of vacation, its for 3 months and getting a little background information and meeting them, I dont think is asking too much. If Ireland want to do the same thing I would either comply or not go. I like to say IMHO that I hope they have looked at every visa program since 9/11.

A short while ago, I read an article about how disenchanted some young Irish were when they actually got to the US on such type of visits in previous summers. They hoped to land jobs here, work hard to save money for when they get back home for college.The article went on to say that they were struggling to find jobs, and most came away without one.

This is probably a good reason that the students don't want to come here.

Doppy, I want people to come and visit here. These students are not coming for a week of vacation, its for 3 months and getting a little background information and meeting them, I dont think is asking too much. If Ireland want to do the same thing I would either comply or not go. I like to say IMHO that I hope they have looked at every visa program since 9/11.
Given the shoddy tracking of immigration violations in the US why should 3 months be any different than 1 week? Until we have exit screening how would they know the difference?

I believe in a need for heightened security - for too long US aviation security has been a joke. I've yet to see much progress towards real security - it's all window dressing feelgood measures. 600 screeners at PDX alone - and they are understaffed!

Given the shoddy tracking of immigration violations in the US why should 3 months be any different than 1 week? Until we have exit screening how would they know the difference?
Even if we know someone hasn't left, it's next to impossible to find a person -even with a photo and fingerprints. Unless they're going to dust every doorknob and pay phone across the country for prints, it doesn't do much good.