US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - Is PHL the WORST airport in America?

Without providing the lurid details of my experience yesterday in the subject facility (it almost took me as long to get from PHL-PIT as it did from FRA-PHL) I have to wonder if another airport in the USA is as poor at serving the flying public as PHL.

Much has been posted on this site about the situation, which hasn't improved and may actually be worse. Can anything be done? For US's sake, changes must be made.

HPTUNCO,

I have to agree with you. I wish they would have moved the international operations to PIT instead. PIT is an amazing airport to connect in. PHL is a complete headache. That airport needs an extra runway as well.

The only other airport I hate is ATL. I have never been on-time when flying there.

I think PHL and ATL are probably the worst two airports in the country as far as getting in and out. And when the ques back up. They really back up!

Been through JFK lately?

JFK is a mess as well. But I don't think it is as bas as ATL and PHL

ORD is as bad as PHL, especially you fly UA.

The shortest delay for me to/from ORD by UA is 2 hrs.

I only took afternoon flights. I believe morning flights should be OK everywhere.

PHL is my home airport - lucky me! :eek: I really hate it and have for a long time. Lines are often atrociously long. It takes a miles-long walk to retrieve baggage. Picking up someone on an arriving flight is a nightmare.

They do need another runway, But they have constantly run into opposition from Delaware County residents who would be uprooted if that occurs. The general population of that area is older and settled and their opposition is heated. That battle has been raging on for quite a few years.

I just grit my teeth and do the best I can. Foks who live in the area are constantly being told of “improvements” arriving at the airport, but that is a joke in my opinion. Adding some rocking chairs and expanding with some badly-needed retail stores and restaurants does not begin to address the larger issues. I want my waiting time to be the least amount it can possibly be. Being in an airport is not comforting, fun or entertaining in any way – not this one, for sure. Airport management does not sound like an easy position, but it’s not rocket science, either. PHL has had many directors in the last several years. Nothing much seems to get done. :(

Yeah, the security lines are frustrating. Monday mornings, especially. It took me 20 mintues to get through security in terminal F on Monday this week, though I think B and C would have been much worse.

Biggest annoyance of Monday morning: There is a preferred line at B, but you have to wait until you get to the mazed section. Meaning, you're waiting for the xx minutes standing next to the moving walkway to get into the preferred line. ????

There was supposedly a pothole in one of the runways that helped delay my flight on Tuesday or wednesday, in addition to the fog and rain that was already in the area.

Still, I like to go to Cibo's to relax before a flight. And if you can avoid the peak times it's not too bad. Or just get there by 5:45am or 6am and the lines haven't formed yet.

Flying into PHL was seamless on Thursday. Combination of good weather and good luck I suppose

Is it the worst? In 1 word YES!

From only 1 screening position open for terminals a-f when arriving from Munich, to the baggage coming in 47 minutes from Int'l to go thru customs, to the forever walk, to missing our flight and bags not arriving into Florida until the next day, I will never fly thru PHL again. No way, no how, and will never spend a dime in Philly.......

JudyJFLA

To answer your question: Yes, for what it should be.

Sure, there are single gate "huts" that are worse in terms of amenities, etc., but in terms of delivering what you would expect for the size/investment/etc., PHL has to be at the bottom, IMHO.

But I've heard bad things about MIA too - it seems to be the PHL equivalent on the AA board.

ORD is as bad as PHL, especially you fly UA.

The shortest delay for me to/from ORD by UA is 2 hrs.

I only took afternoon flights. I believe morning flights should be OK everywhere.


A lot of my flying has been between PHL and ORD lately, its not fun. They have been the first and second most delayed airports in the country for quite a while.


Jay, aka 1095

I don't know. As a fugitive AA flier (with some UA flights since they have the latter flight from ORD back to PIT) I've been relatively lucky with ORD recently -- even though I've done the mad dash from one terminal to the other, otherwise, all my flights have been on time, nearly a dozen of them in the past three months. As for PHL, I have never made it through that airport unscathed in many, many times. I've not flown through ATL a lot but when I have it's been OK too (lots of great exercise carrying 50 lb bags up and down LONG escalators!)

I have to agree that for a major airline's hub airport you can't screw things up worse than PHL. If it can wrong there, it does. Give me the airline hut (ie MGW) any day over PHL :)

So, based on what I'm reading, my 12 hour layover on the o/b of a March SEA-FCO MR/vacation and a 3.5 hour connection on the i/b in PHL is actually a good thing?

While not having visited every airport in lower 48, as a gateway SEA was always my least favorite because of the lack of hot (read good) food options and the sky high prices. Can't wait to experience PHL to compare...

I will have an early evening trip with connection in PHL in early Feb.

the first leg on US mainline, second leg on US express.

40 min layover time.

According to my research, the second leg always ontime and is the last flight out of PHL to STL. Really worried how to make it.

If I call them to reroute the trip through CLT, will get charged or not?

I fly thru ATL weekly, it's not as bad as some would think, or maybe I am just lucky. Sure it gets its share of weather delays, but so do other airports.

I used to live in PHL and am so glad I don't have to fly from that airport too often.

I flew to PIT and out about once a month for almost 2 years ending this summer. I thought PIT was a great airport. Since I haven't followed the news and the FT board on the "dehubbing" of PIT, etc, can someone summarize why PHL was picked over PIT?

Approx. 80% of my flying is in and out of PHL and it can be frustrating at times, but IMHO MIA is much, much worse. The absolute worst airport experiences I have had in the last 10 years were flying into and out of MIA including a 2 1/2 hr. wait in line to reach the AA ticket counter after a cruise. That's for domestic service. LHR is hands down the worst Int'l airport for connections. I have never "made" my connection on any airlines at Heathrow, ever.

.....

Yes. And I should need 10 characters to answer this simple question?

No. PHL is not the worst.

I fly to and through PHL a lot and I like it. Lots of places are worse. Of course there are horror stories, there are horror stories everywhere. But it is also true that some of the most talented and experienced people in US Airways are at PHL.

Regrettably every other month I have to go through PHL. I absolutely dread it. I can't stand that airport. Terminal A West is pretty to look at but that is about it. And the only reason I have to go through PHL is to go to Europe as I go to Spain every other month.

If I have to connect I only go to either PIT or CLT. I am so happy that DCA now has 6 new non stops to ORD, DFW, IAH, ATL, Detroit and Cleveland. I wish they would give US a beyond perimeter slot to the west coast. I would have been happy with either SFO or LAX.

T

Per the earlier question I do not think you can ask them to reroute on the 40 minute connection in PHL. It is a legal connection. Your only hope is that something changes in scheduling BEFORE your flight and then they have to reroute you through CLT.

I have a 35 minute connection in PHL in April (one of those flights which I booked not knowing if there would be a USAirways to fly). I like to gamble in Las Vegas, so now I'm going to gamble in PHL. :)

Approx. 80% of my flying is in and out of PHL and it can be frustrating at times, but IMHO MIA is much, much worse. The absolute worst airport experiences I have had in the last 10 years were flying into and out of MIA including a 2 1/2 hr. wait in line to reach the AA ticket counter after a cruise. That's for domestic service. LHR is hands down the worst Int'l airport for connections. I have never "made" my connection on any airlines at Heathrow, ever.

Never missed a connection at LHR and had quite a few. To compare LHR to the employee hostility and incompetence at PHL is pretty silly in my opinion. Given the size of LHR it is very well run. Only been to Miami a few times, but hours long lines dont seem out of the ordinary at PHL.

Per the earlier question I do not think you can ask them to reroute on the 40 minute connection in PHL. It is a legal connection. Your only hope is that something changes in scheduling BEFORE your flight and then they have to reroute you through CLT.

I have a 35 minute connection in PHL in April (one of those flights which I booked not knowing if there would be a USAirways to fly). I like to gamble in Las Vegas, so now I'm going to gamble in PHL. :)

It will take at least 20 min to take the shuttle from US mainline terminal to US express terminal. Plus regular arrival delay due to ATC, 40 min looks very questionable.

Last time I took this flight in Sept, I barely made the connection. At that time, layover is 1hr 10 min though.

I did successfully reroute one of my award tickets throught phone once. However, someone said award ticket is free to change (on AA board).

I will have an early evening trip with connection in PHL in early Feb.

the first leg on US mainline, second leg on US express.

40 min layover time.

According to my research, the second leg always ontime and is the last flight out of PHL to STL. Really worried how to make it.

If I call them to reroute the trip through CLT, will get charged or not?

One other thing you can hope for (and this is not a good thing) is bad weather in PHL for that day. If there are alot of delays you can ask to be re-routed. I have done this several times when weather was bad in PIT last year and asked that morning by calling reservations if they could do it. And they did. I did this on a few occasions.

T

What was USAir thinking w/ PHL over PIT?!


Population, number of flyers, revenue, etc. Having a great airport is all well and good, but at the end of the day business is driven by profit and revenue. I'm sure the x flyers in PIT have a better experience than the 5x flyers in PHL, but US gets 5x the revenue in PHL. At least before SW came in, their operations imploded, etc. That was the thinking.

"Why did you rob the bank? It's where the money is."

It will take at least 20 min to take the shuttle from US mainline terminal to US express terminal. Plus regular arrival delay due to ATC, 40 min looks very questionable.

Last time I took this flight in Sept, I barely made the connection. At that time, layover is 1hr 10 min though.

I did successfully reroute one of my award tickets throught phone once. However, someone said award ticket is free to change (on AA board).

That's true, award tickets are still free to change dates (and routing, as long as your origin and destination is the same) on USAirways. Don't know for how long now that Delta charges a fee for all changes and USAirways likes to follow other airlines around rather than innovate...

Population, number of flyers, revenue, etc. Having a great airport is all well and good, but at the end of the day business is driven by profit and revenue. I'm sure the x flyers in PIT have a better experience than the 5x flyers in PHL, but US gets 5x the revenue in PHL. At least before SW came in, their operations imploded, etc. That was the thinking.

"Why did you rob the bank? It's where the money is."


Sorry, I just dont agree with this thinking, even without knowing that Southwest would arrive. O&D is only part of the story. No city has enough O&D to trash the total operations of the carrier. And that is what PHL does. If only O&D mattered they should have made LGA the hub, not PHL.

Sorry, I just dont agree with this thinking, even without knowing that Southwest would arrive. O&D is only part of the story. No city has enough O&D to trash the total operations of the carrier. And that is what PHL does. If only O&D mattered they should have made LGA the hub, not PHL.

4th largest Metro area vs. 22nd largest metro area. Pretty simple.

http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/NumberPortability/msas.html

Djlawman

4th largest Metro area vs. 22nd largest metro area. Pretty simple.

http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/NumberPortability/msas.html

Djlawman


LGA is in the 22nd largest metro area????????? That isnt even true if you just count Queens.

But I'd much rather take a short, non-adelayed flight from wherever to PIT then have the rest of my journey run smoothly than to have just one leg out of PHL and have stress levels out the wazoo! :mad:
... and then drive to PHL??

If only O&D mattered they should have made LGA the hub, not PHL.
They most likely would have, if they could have, but they can't.... (for a number of reasons - LGA slots being the first).

... and then drive to PHL??

I would probably rather drive there from PIT than fly there but that isnt what they are talking about presumeably. I took it to read they would rather connect in PIT than PHL.

Here's my opinion on the bad airports of the country:

PHL - the worst and here's why: most overcrowded (only TWO main runways for full-size planes) - most congested terminals - poorly laid out - worst baggage system - terrible for int'l connections and most of all terrible people - I have had worse delays in other cities but in PHL and esp. with US you can sometimes just not find a Customer Service Rep. PHL IMHO is worst also because of it's unpredictableness. Sunny Tuesday in April and you'll still have problems.

ATL - Just obnoxious and terrible runway delays.

ORD - Bad weather, overcrowded and worst flow delays but at least UA has far better customer service than US in PHL.

DFW - Just ugly inside. Not a bad airport - just depressing - walked 8 gates in C without a window.

LAX - terrible for inter airline connections and horribly unpredictable security lines. O&D not bad.

Deleted duplicate.

The number of posts in this thread and the negative passion that PHL arouses is the clearest sign that US made a terrible mistake in commiting to PHL. I see a future where PHL is only used for O&D and all then it will just be a case of Philadelphians mistreating each other.

How many people are rooting against the Eagles because they hate PHL?

How many people are rooting against the Eagles because they hate PHL?

I'm rooting for them so the Steelers can kick the butts of the folks sucking all the money out of my state taxes... ;)

My latest beef with PHL (among many others), and the reason for beginning this thread, was that I walked out of US Customs at 4:15 yesterday in Terminal A after rechecking my bag from FRA. I had a connection departing at 5PM in Terminal B for my flight to PIT. Shouldn't have been a problem.

HOWEVER....two prison matrons would not allow me to walk through the corredor that would have kept me INSIDE security and on my way easily to the gate. Instead, I had to go outside of security and physically outside the building to walk over to Terminal B. When I arrived at Terminal B, you guessed it, I was confronted with a line as long as the skybridge. I tried both TC and TD lines with the same result. I stood in line for an hour waiting to be screened and cleared the TSA area at 5:15PM.......missing my flight which was surprisingly on time.

Of course I rebooked on the 6:00, which was delayed to 6:55 (on a beautiful clear day). We didn't leave the gate (baggage issues) until 7:30PM....then waited behind 10 planes ahead of us in line to take off.

We arrived in PIT after 9PM.....I waited for my bag, which never came up on the belt. When I checked with the baggage office, I found that my bag MADE the 5PM flight and was waiting for me! Anyway, wasting another hour had me depart PIT for my drive home at just before 10PM.

All because PHL cannot allow passengers, who already have been screened for security, to move to connecting flights without being rescreened. This is a great hub to build your airline and profitable transatlantic business around. :mad:

My latest beef with PHL (among many others), and the reason for beginning this thread, was that I walked out of US Customs at 4:15 yesterday in Terminal A after rechecking my bag from FRA. I had a connection departing at 5PM in Terminal B for my flight to PIT. Shouldn't have been a problem.

HOWEVER....two prison matrons would not allow me to walk through the corredor that would have kept me INSIDE security and on my way easily to the gate. Instead, I had to go outside of security and physically outside the building to walk over to Terminal B. When I arrived at Terminal B, you guessed it, I was confronted with a line as long as the skybridge. I tried both TC and TD lines with the same result. I stood in line for an hour waiting to be screened and cleared the TSA area at 5:15PM.......missing my flight which was surprisingly on time.

Of course I rebooked on the 6:00, which was delayed to 6:55 (on a beautiful clear day). We didn't leave the gate (baggage issues) until 7:30PM....then waited behind 10 planes ahead of us in line to take off.

We arrived in PIT after 9PM.....I waited for my bag, which never came up on the belt. When I checked with the baggage office, I found that my bag MADE the 5PM flight and was waiting for me! Anyway, wasting another hour had me depart PIT for my drive home at just before 10PM.

All because PHL cannot allow passengers, who already have been screened for security, to move to connecting flights without being rescreened. This is a great hub to build your airline and profitable transatlantic business around. :mad:

Wait so you went across the A skybridge from customs, through security there and then were prevented from walking to B?

That sounds horrible but I'm just trying to place where they told you this.

I'm a PHL native.

The number of posts in this thread and the negative passion that PHL arouses is the clearest sign that US made a terrible mistake in commiting to PHL. I see a future where PHL is only used for O&D and all then it will just be a case of Philadelphians mistreating each other.

How many people are rooting against the Eagles because they hate PHL?

I hate PHL (my home) and at least question (not necessarily disagree with) why US choose to focus there. O&D traffic shouldn't be underrated. As air travel increases, so will the demand and therefore supply for n/s flights - US can't loose out.

But the other thing is look at airlines which have also operated in lousy hubs for various reasons. AA&UA in ORD, NW in DTW (the most appaling airport for years: pre-new NW terminal) and to a degree DL in ATL - plagued with horrible runway congestion as well. They are again expanding in one of the worst airports in the country. Seems like the #'s just add up for these bad airports. Even though we always question US management, in actuality, there are some number crunchers back there who crank this stuff out.

PHL worst?

Naw...ATL, DTW, OKC, LHR, ORD, and especially CDG are worse.

I think MIA is one of the worst airports in the country. While we are on the subject of worse airports, here a quick anecdote.

Back in the 80's, I was coming back to JFK from an overseas trip to Germany.
I said to one of JFK staffers ( INS I think ) that they should demolish the terminal buillding and rebuild it. He agreed and started to laugh and called over the next guy and told him what I said. Even that employee agreed with me but he also started to laugh. I asked them, why they were laughing?

They told me that they just finished remodeling that section of the terminal yesterday!

PHL worst?

Naw...ATL, DTW, OKC, LHR, ORD, and especially CDG are worse.

Last time I checked LHR and CDG werent in America. For that matter OKC is a matter of opinion on that regard, but I digress. Some of those airports, especially LHR and ORD are a lot busier than PHL. And I fly into them a lot and have not seen the consistent late flights, abuse or lack of concern for passengers or lost luggage at LHR and ORD. Sorry, but it just doesnt happen. And again, they are a lot busier than PHL. Operations at LHR are much smoother than PHL. I was only really late on a connection once at LHR and the person telling passengers which line to get in to recheck saw that I was running late (my LH flight into LHR was delayed by weather in Germany) and rushed me to the front of the line. From there he called for a cart to meet me after I checked in and the cart radioed the gate to tell them I was coming. I was late on a connection on an international flight coming into PHL on a couple of occassions and the charming people all but gave me the finger and laughed in my face. LHR is a very, very busy, but very well run airport where the employees try to take care of the passengers as well as they can. PHL is out of control.

I've had great experiences at PHL. Lots of them. I'd much rather have the PHL staff available to deal with a tough situation. They may not be Disney wannabes but they can get amazing stuff done. I've had substantially less luck at the other PA hub (although the people there are certainly friendly enough).

Actually... haven't an awful lot of these people, at any hub, been bumped from other stations?

I've had great experiences at PHL. Lots of them. I'd much rather have the PHL staff available to deal with a tough situation. They may not be Disney wannabes but they can get amazing stuff done. I've had substantially less luck at the other PA hub (although the people there are certainly friendly enough).

Actually... haven't an awful lot of these people, at any hub, been bumped from other stations?

You are lucky. That is all I can say. I havne't had a nice PHL agent in over a year and it's my home.

I'm trying to delete this $%#$% message ok!

HOWEVER....two prison matrons would not allow me to walk through the corredor that would have kept me INSIDE security and on my way easily to the gate. Instead, I had to go outside of security and physically outside the building to walk over to Terminal B.


I agree with your sentiments about PHL. However, the issue of reclearing security is due to TSA and is at all airports in the USA. Some just do it better than others.

HOWEVER....two prison matrons would not allow me to walk through the corredor that would have kept me INSIDE security and on my way easily to the gate. Instead, I had to go outside of security and physically outside the building to walk over to Terminal B.

...
All because PHL cannot allow passengers, who already have been screened for security, to move to connecting flights without being rescreened. This is a great hub to build your airline and profitable transatlantic business around. :mad:
Actually rescreening once customs is cleared is mandatory, to my knowledge. On all my international flights, most recently through IAD and DTW, I have had to go back through TSA once entering the US. And neither were pleasant experiences. Now maybe PHL can have a dedicated TSA line for folks arriving on international flights, but sounds like the matrons did their job.

And let me be clear: you are angry because your bags actually made it to PIT?

Rescreening is fine. What gets people angry is the recheck line that backs up into the baggage area because they are only using one line.

Last time I checked LHR and CDG werent in America. For that matter OKC is a matter of opinion on that regard, but I digress. Some of those airports, especially LHR and ORD are a lot busier than PHL. And I fly into them a lot and have not seen the consistent late flights, abuse or lack of concern for passengers or lost luggage at LHR and ORD. Sorry, but it just doesnt happen. And again, they are a lot busier than PHL. Operations at LHR are much smoother than PHL. I was only really late on a connection once at LHR and the person telling passengers which line to get in to recheck saw that I was running late (my LH flight into LHR was delayed by weather in Germany) and rushed me to the front of the line. From there he called for a cart to meet me after I checked in and the cart radioed the gate to tell them I was coming. I was late on a connection on an international flight coming into PHL on a couple of occassions and the charming people all but gave me the finger and laughed in my face. LHR is a very, very busy, but very well run airport where the employees try to take care of the passengers as well as they can. PHL is out of control.




I fly out of PHL all the time. The people treat me nicely. I see them treat others nicely. I don't see the agent problems you do and I just about live there.

Is it you perhaps?

A question to sts603:

You mentioned that you walked past 8 gates at DFW Terminal C without seeing a window. I'm curious which 8 gates those were? I've been flying out of that terminal for 25 years and, even with construction zones (like currently for the new Skylink stations), I can't think of a distance longer than three physical gates (remember each jetbridge may have two boarding gates) without windows. Two major terminal renovations have, in fact, added windows.

I'll agree that DFW is not the prettiest airport but few hub airports allow you to park so close and its multiple security entrances help minimize wait times to be screened.

When it comes to airports, I'll take function over form.

Not to pile on, but...I had somehow managed to avoid PHL for several years (by using CLT or PIT just flying direct) until cutbacks at PIT finally forced me through PHL in November. All I can say is HOLY *#@%.

I honestly did not think it could actually be THIS bad. I experienced a series of events that amounted to a "combo platter" of Philly airports worst traits. At any rate I have learned my lesson. Incidentally the US GAs in PHL were OK, but the rest of the facility employees were predictably awful and the rest of the experience had it all: Multiple delays, insanely far walks, bad food, baggage issues (not mine, but folks i had met during my delays) etc. etc.--all on a saturday BTW. I can't think of any other A.P. that i really loath, although IAD is annoying just for the "bumpy bus". I always try to connect in an AP that is not delay prone so avoid ORD and ATL.

I know the O&D in Philly is great, but just keep it a focus city and expand PIT and CLT for the rest of us.

I fly out of PHL all the time. The people treat me nicely. I see them treat others nicely. I don't see the agent problems you do and I just about live there.

Is it you perhaps?

No. Most of the time it isnt so much not being nice as not doing anything. I should add, it isnt like Im the only one that feels this way. It would seem to be a majority opinion among people on the thread. And the fact that most of us, and since you asked, me in particular, dont have the same view of other airports that would also indicate it is a PHL problem, not a GadgetFreak problem.

HOWEVER....two prison matrons would not allow me to walk through the corredor that would have kept me INSIDE security and on my way easily to the gate. Instead, I had to go outside of security and physically outside the building to walk over to Terminal B.

I have always had to re-clear security after leaving customs in the 6 international ports of entry I've been through. Are there any airports where you do not have to do that? After all, you have been in contact with all of the contraband in your checked luggage! :rolleyes:

That said, I think PHL as well as most other airports could do a better job providing an easier security check for connecting international pax. Dare I suggest an exclusive security check at peak times?

I've used it a lot.

International terminal is attractive, customs process was quick and easy.

Shopping is OK, nothing great (PIT is better, but not as good as it used to be).

Food is OK (cheesesteak....mmmmmm)

No attitude problems with anyone so far.

Connections were fine.

Guess I'm lucky?!

A question to sts603:

You mentioned that you walked past 8 gates at DFW Terminal C without seeing a window. I'm curious which 8 gates those were? I've been flying out of that terminal for 25 years and, even with construction zones (like currently for the new Skylink stations), I can't think of a distance longer than three physical gates (remember each jetbridge may have two boarding gates) without windows. Two major terminal renovations have, in fact, added windows.

I'll agree that DFW is not the prettiest airport but few hub airports allow you to park so close and its multiple security entrances help minimize wait times to be screened.

When it comes to airports, I'll take function over form.

I have one of those bizarre memories that I can actually tell you the connection was C38 - C31 back in March. And I ended up walking it several times looking for the best option to eat so at least at that time, there was not a window. I agree, function over form but it was just depressing. I hate PHL but at least they have windows and if you get down to E and F you can see the skyline.

On the contrary - going back many years to when a US Club membership got into AA Admiral's - the club in DFW C was quite attractive.

PHL was just named the 8th best-mannered city in the US in etiquette expert Marjabelle Young Stewart's 29th annual report - http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/14/polite.cities.ap/index.html


In other news, etiquette expert Marjabelle Young Stewart just started doing crack....

PHL was just named the 8th best-mannered city in the US in etiquette expert Marjabelle Young Stewart's 29th annual report
....

Yeah, but it was also named the 2nd fattest/least fit city in America by Men's Health magazine (Houston #1, Detroit #3) and the #1 best tippers by some restaurant magazine. What does all this mean? I conclude that when Philadelphians are sitting down & eating they are happy & leave big tips!

When they have to stand up and are hungry though....

PHL was just named the 8th best-mannered city in the US in etiquette expert Marjabelle Young Stewart's 29th annual report - http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/14/polite.cities.ap/index.html


In other news, etiquette expert Marjabelle Young Stewart just started doing crack....


In other words, they only visited 7!

I have one of those bizarre memories that I can actually tell you the connection was C38 - C31 back in March. And I ended up walking it several times looking for the best option to eat so at least at that time, there was not a window. I agree, function over form but it was just depressing. I hate PHL but at least they have windows and if you get down to E and F you can see the skyline.

On the contrary - going back many years to when a US Club membership got into AA Admiral's - the club in DFW C was quite attractive.

You have quite a memory. That section of Termianl C was built as an extension in the mid 1980s to complete the semicircle design and add another entrance and an addtional parking structure. Perhaps it was under construction when you passed through. There are windows from Gates 35-38. They are not the floor to ceiling variety found from 31 down but they do allow one to see out to ramp and watch gate arrival and departures.

Because of its narrower concourse, there are no eating spots above 31, just a newstand and small gift shop. It hasn't been updated to match the rest of the terminal so you are probably right that it is not too appealing. I often fly out of those gates when traveling to Salt Lake. They has one functional advantage. By being at the end of the ramp, it is normally an unobstructed taxi out to the runaways.

Perhaps on a future visit, you will get to check out the soon-to-open International Terminal D (it will also handle some Domestic flights). Very stunning and plenty of windows and translucent ticket counters so you can see through to the gates.

Safe travels.

I'm going to disagree and say that MCI is the worst airport in america, and anyone who flies WN semi-regularly and has the misfortune of layovers there would agree. The system of having to go through security every time you leave the gate (to go to the bathroom, get some food, smoke, etc etc) is absolutely the most ludicrous thing on earth.

It's laid out like an old bus station, it's depressing and ugly, and the security situation is just asinine. Having to go through security again when changing gates on connections is so stupid that I refuse to connect there anymore.

Actually rescreening once customs is cleared is mandatory, to my knowledge.

And this is not just some silly TSA rule, but it actually makes sense once you think about it. You've had access to your checked luggage (in order to take it through customs personally) and could have taken an item that is allowed in checked luggage out of your bags and put it in your carry-on.

But I do agree that some airports handle re-screening of arriving international passengers better than others.

PHL was just named the 8th best-mannered city in the US in etiquette expert Marjabelle Young Stewart's 29th annual report - http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/14/polite.cities.ap/index.html


In other news, etiquette expert Marjabelle Young Stewart just started doing crack....

Damn, you beat me to posting that gem of news. :mad:

However bad PHL may be, though, I have to agree with a previous poster that MIA is worse.

PHL is the worst airport to connect. I can't think of any other US airport that has a worse combination of runway and terminal layout to run hub operations. Planes coming in and this pushing out easily get in each other's way.

Add to that the fact that the hub airline chose to spread itself out from terminal A-west to terminal F, thus making it hard for pax to connect. Throw in their hiring practices of choosing the least friendly group of front-line people (for the most part), and the airport is a disaster.

The airport works for PHL O/D pax for the most part, just make sure you know which terminal you are headed for before setting out. The center city train is nice.

The trick is NOT to be a US Airways pax. Choose one of the other guys to give your business. Sure you'll connect somewhere else, but you will steer clear of the mess that is B-C-F.

All in all, the airport is bad for US Airways connecting pax and bad for US Airways O/D pax. No wonder the airline is in trouble.

I *DARE* any one of you in the states to fly AC through YYZ on your next European flight.

Step 1 (if arriving on CRJ): Bus from satellite terminal 2 to terminal 2.
Step 2: Clear Canadian customs
Step 3: Recheck bags
Step 4: Landside bus to terminal 1
Step 5: Go through security
Step 6: Bus to infield holding terminal
Step 7: Walk to gate

RETURN

Step 1: Bus from infield holding terminal
Step 2: Clear Canadian customs
Step 3: Keep bags with you
Step 4: Landside bus to terminal 2
Step 5: US customs/immigration
Step 6: Drop off bags
Step 7: Go through security
Step 8 (CRJ): Bus to satellite terminal
Step 9: Walk to gate

That's 14-16 steps for a Euro connection at YYZ. At PHL it's something like 7-9 steps (depending if going to/coming from Express).

For the most part, I don't mind connecting in PHL. Lots of moving walkways, there's almost ALWAYS at least one of the security lines that's managable, immigration is usually fairly quick, there's decent food (Cibo), and if something goes wrong, there are plenty of payphones to use to call US to be immediately reprotected when lineups are long.

I *DARE* any one of you in the states to fly AC through YYZ on your next European flight.

Step 1 (if arriving on CRJ): Bus from satellite terminal 2 to terminal 2.
Step 2: Clear Canadian customs
Step 3: Recheck bags
Step 4: Landside bus to terminal 1
Step 5: Go through security
Step 6: Bus to infield holding terminal
Step 7: Walk to gate

RETURN

Step 1: Bus from infield holding terminal
Step 2: Clear Canadian customs
Step 3: Keep bags with you
Step 4: Landside bus to terminal 2
Step 5: US customs/immigration
Step 6: Drop off bags
Step 7: Go through security
Step 8 (CRJ): Bus to satellite terminal
Step 9: Walk to gate

That's 14-16 steps for a Euro connection at YYZ. At PHL it's something like 7-9 steps (depending if going to/coming from Express).

For the most part, I don't mind connecting in PHL. Lots of moving walkways, there's almost ALWAYS at least one of the security lines that's managable, immigration is usually fairly quick, there's decent food (Cibo), and if something goes wrong, there are plenty of payphones to use to call US to be immediately reprotected when lineups are long.

I'm with you on this one. While I haven't been in YYZ recently since the new terminal opened - I have had awful connecting experiences there. Even US-Domestic Canada or reverse was a pain in the ... esp. b/c AC kept giving me 50 mins. for PHL-YYZ-YVR. I managed not to miss a single one but I think I took out half of Toronto running around with two ski bags.

The last time I did it - they cancelled my YYZ-PHL flight in T2. Phone bank for almost an hour trying to convince them to transfer me from AC to US. Got lost trying to find ticket re-issue wtih lines all over the place, people going on break and then they dared re-issue my ticket by handwriting all of it. Then land-side bus (again with skis) to T3 to US.

I *DARE* any one of you in the states to fly AC through YYZ on your next European flight.

Why would an American use AC to fly to Europe?

I stopped flying US (out of YYZ) to Europe two years ago because of the hassle of going through customs twice per leg (have you ever been in the NON-US-CITIZEN line at PHL when 4 international flights arrive at the same time? Ask me some time...)

The golden age of US for me was when I could show up at YXU 20 minutes before my flight to PIT.

I'm looking at $1500 (CDN) for 2 tix to the caribbean on AC (direct from YYZ) when I could have booked the seats on US DM points (30k each). That's how much I want to avoid PHL.

[just for the he33 of it, I went to have a look to see if I could still get a YYZ-BGI DM ticket in Jan or Feb. I got the following message after selecting the departure date by clicking on the on-screen calendar:

usairways.com is unable to display service between Barbados, BB and Toronto, CA. Please contact the customer service center at 800-428-4322 for assistance.

What's with that?]

"Why did you rob the bank? It's where the money is."

Well--the question is did US rob the correct bank...?

What would have been the difference if PIT was the hub and PHL was the focus city?

US should know which cities are the most popular destinations out of PHL--they could offer direct flights to those cities from PHL without subjecting the majority of their connection pax through a rathole airport like PHL.

US would not have to climb out of the hole it dug for itself over this past holiday season if PIT were the hub instead of PHL...

..

US would not have to climb out of the hole it dug for itself over this past holiday season if PIT were the hub instead of PHL...

I doubt it. PIT had troubles too. And you could make a good case that picking PIT and downsizing PHL would have killed the airline.

The operational issues at PHL are real enough but they are curable and progress is being made -- you have to step back and take a long view and get over the "PIT is the best airport since sliced bread" mentality to see it though. If today's traffic levels in PHL were to be attempted with the 1999 PHL you'd see a real mess.

PHL has problems but it isn't the worst in the country and those problems can be fixed. LUV's presence in PHL is probably a good thing from that perspective. All boats will rise insofar as infrastructure and operational issues need to be fixed as they grow -- the City, the State and the TSA won't be able to hide behind "USAir" as their excuse for everything. In fact, if I were US, I'd welcome LUV with open arms and work with them to get the real problems fixed. PHL is a hugely underserved market and growth will benefit everyone.

Tom's post made me wonder whether the Philadelphia metro area really is underserved. According to statistics from the 2000 Census and FAA CY 2003 statistics, the top 20 markets in the nation average approximately 3 annual enplanements per resident. The two laggards are Philly and NYC (including JFK, EWR, LGA, ISP and HPN) at roughly 2 boardings per person.

The question that I can't answer is whether this is due to underservice, (which would not be the case in the NY metro area), or geography. Opinions?

Tom's post made me wonder whether the Philadelphia metro area really is underserved. According to statistics from the 2000 Census and FAA CY 2003 statistics, the top 20 markets in the nation average approximately 3 annual enplanements per resident. The two laggards are Philly and NYC (including JFK, EWR, LGA, ISP and HPN) at roughly 2 boardings per person.

The question that I can't answer is whether this is due to underservice, (which would not be the case in the NY metro area), or geography. Opinions?

Geography. Most people don't fly from NYC to WAS or BOS (only business people) Everyone else takes Amtrak. Whereas most people fly from PHL to PVD, BOS and even BDL (because the train is longer and flights are cheaper). Same thing is true with ALB & SYR.

While there are some exceptions, more people would drive from PHL to RIC than from NYC to RIC; people just going through the northeast corridor and peripheral cities (out to SYR, Wocester, etc.) can avoid flying more from NYC than PHL.

Why would an American use AC to fly to Europe?

The same reason that a Canadian would fly to Europe via the US. Just because you don't do it anymore doesn't mean no one else does. Fares, schedules, destinations, loyalty, etc. The initial question was "Is PHL the WORST airport in America?" Last time I checked, YYZ is an airport in America, as is MEX, CCS, etc.

And yes, I have been in the non-US line when about 4 flights have arrived. It's a great way to kill time until the baggage arrives :D

Tom's post made me wonder whether the Philadelphia metro area really is underserved. According to statistics from the 2000 Census and FAA CY 2003 statistics, the top 20 markets in the nation average approximately 3 annual enplanements per resident. The two laggards are Philly and NYC (including JFK, EWR, LGA, ISP and HPN) at roughly 2 boardings per person.

The question that I can't answer is whether this is due to underservice, (which would not be the case in the NY metro area), or geography. Opinions?

As I understand it SWA choose PHL in large part precisely because there was such an opportunity for growth. There were other reasons of course but that was one of the biggies.

A big part of the reason that PHL is so poorly served is (or was) high fares.

I'd also dispute that NY Metro is well served. Even though there is a lot of service there are a ton of people in the region. There's quite a lot of growth opportunity there too.

The East, and especially the Northeast, is very compact but traffic is no picnic and there's plenty of opportunity there. The market is nowhere near saturated -- although the infrastructure might be (at least as it is operated today.)

you have to step back and take a long view

Unfortunately, US does not have the luxury of stepping back and taking more time to view the situation....

My point is that they have taken the long view and they been making progress on the problems. Many posters seem to feel that nothing has ever been done, that nothing can be done and that nothing ever will be done. PHL is troubled but it is not hopeless and it is being given a bum rap -- it is not the worst airport in the US.

There is an entirely different species of human culture that makes up a portion of the PHL workforce - though "work" is a very loose term.

Today in terminal F - 5 minutes before a USE departure - no agent at gate, passengers waiting......but look across one gate, and there they are: talking, laughing, and completely ignoring their jobs. When I dared approach and asked when the flight, now 5 mins from departure, would be boarding, one of them said, "well, I guess I gotta do SOME work today". Another replied, "mmm hmm". Never looked at me, never answered me, sauntered to the gate - do I need to continue? Has anyone else experienced this scenario? Surly ticket agents? The general non-customer-focus of it all?

I'll take ORD's delays and personnel over PHL any day. I'll take ATL. It is, IMO, indeed the worst airport in the country.

My point is that they have taken the long view and they been making progress on the problems. Many posters seem to feel that nothing has ever been done, that nothing can be done and that nothing ever will be done. PHL is troubled but it is not hopeless and it is being given a bum rap -- it is not the worst airport in the US.

Your opinion is not shared by over 90% of the posters to this thread. I don't think that there is a quantifiable way to determine that an airport is the Best or Worst.........however it is quite clear from FT opinions expressed here that PHL is among the worst (bottom five?) airports in the USA.

No, I don't believe that it can be fixed. The obstacles:

1. Air traffic problems- proximity to NYC, BWI and WDC make this a problem that cannot be addressed.

2. More runway space- impossible due to proximity to the river and I95. The facility is land locked with no possiblity to expand/improve runways.

2. Poor attitude by employees- only way to improve this would be to start over with new employees hired for customer service skill. This, of course, is impossible. US is stuck with employees who generally do not serve their customers in an appropriate manner. (certainly there are exeptions to this, but the RULE is that PHL is terrible in customer service).

The "Focus City' concept would have been fine for PHL. The O/D market would easily fill these planes. If US's future is still the hub/spoke concept, PIT would have been a better choice for a NE/MW hub.

I don't know if PHL is THE worst airport in the US, but definitely the US team there needs an attitude and managmenet adjustment. Took a quick trip to CZM this past week. Going down to connect through CLT arrived ten minutes early and ground crew and jetway operator waiting for plane. On trip back arrived in PHL 5 minutes early--gate occupied, so had to sit waiting for another gate in A-West to be assigned. Then when got a gate had to wait for ground crew. Five minutes after parked got a jetway operator. Going through immigrations they had to have 300 people waiting for bags at 8:30 at night.

Every time I fly through PHL lately the plane has had to sit 5-10 minutes to get a jetway operator. It's like management doesn't expect us to make it, so they don't schedule someone to meet the plane. Operations and the FAA are one thing probably beyond the control of management, but the rest isn't. Come on guys,get it right. It isn't PHL that is the worst airport, but rather how US runs it or better said doesn't run it is the worst. :td:

Every time I fly through PHL lately the plane has had too sit 5-10 minutes to get a jetway operator. It's like management expect us to make it, so they don't schedule someone to meet the plane. Operations and the FAA are one thing probably beyond the control of management, but the rest isn't. Come on guys,get it right. It isn't PHL that is the worst airport, but rather how US runs it or better said doesn't run it is the worst. :td:

I flew into PHL from CLT about 10 days ago on a delayed flight (sched dep 5:55, left about 7:50). When we got to the gate in PHL, we had to wait over 15 min to get someone to bring the jetway over. One would think that with a delayed flight, you would make sure someone was there to get the people off the plane. Then again, common sense seems to be something lacking when it comes to PHL.

Your opinion is not shared by over 90% of the posters to this thread.

The unpopularity of the position changes nothing.

This forum is packed with US Airways fliers. They are naturally going to have a US Airways centric POV. If you did a straight-up vote of all FT'ers I'll bet you that PHL wouldn't make the top 5 (or bottom 5 depending on how you want to view the list) of "worst airports".

But the question has been asked in this forum so it is being answered from that POV. If the question was "which of US Airway's Hubs is the worst" then I'd agree that PHL has the most problems within the US Airways system.

But I still wouldn't agree that those problems are unfixable nor would I agree that focusing on PHL was a mistake.

I don't think that there is a quantifiable way to determine that an airport is the Best or Worst.........however it is quite clear from FT opinions expressed here that PHL is among the worst (bottom five?) airports in the USA.

No, it isn't "quite clear". A number of posters (not just me) think otherwise. As I mentioned above a lot of them are less US-centric than some of us. IMHO the "PHL is the armpit of the universe" crowd consists largely of PIT afficiandos with a well known position on the topic.

No, I don't believe that it can be fixed. The obstacles:

1. Air traffic problems- proximity to NYC, BWI and WDC make this a problem that cannot be addressed.


It can be addressed, it has been worked on, it continues to be worked on. There are multiple approaches to that problem. ATC capacity issues in general not just in PHL, will improve over time as new technologies and procedures roll out. They have to, PHL isn't the only place that needs help.


2. More runway space- impossible due to proximity to the river and I95. The facility is land locked with no possiblity to expand/improve runways.
[quote]

You're only seeing what you want to see. There is a proposal active to add or realign runways and terminals.

I95 could always be moved and the river filled ;)

[quote]
2. Poor attitude by employees- only way to improve this would be to start over with new employees hired for customer service skill. This, of course, is impossible. US is stuck with employees who generally do not serve their customers in an appropriate manner. (certainly there are exeptions to this, but the RULE is that PHL is terrible in customer service).


My personal experience with PHL employees has been very positive. Of course that might be because I haven't already decided that they all suck.


The "Focus City' concept would have been fine for PHL. The O/D market would easily fill these planes. If US's future is still the hub/spoke concept, PIT would have been a better choice for a NE/MW hub.

They decided otherwise. It isn't going to change. Get over it. LUV thought PHL was a better choice than PIT too.

Your opinion is not shared by over 90% of the posters to this thread. I don't think that there is a quantifiable way to determine that an airport is the Best or Worst.........however it is quite clear from FT opinions expressed here that PHL is among the worst (bottom five?) airports in the USA.

No, I don't believe that it can be fixed. The obstacles:
...
2. More runway space- impossible due to proximity to the river and I95. The facility is land locked with no possiblity to expand/improve runways.

Among the many "impossibles" found in this post, this one is clearly inaccurate. A quick look at www.phl.org indicates there is an active proposal to extend Runway 17-35.

I don't disagree that PHL is a poorly performing airport, and could use very new thinking and aggressive, responsive leadership. I vehemently disagree the situation is hopeless. I can never recommend to anyone to check bags either to or from this airport; that is unacceptable and must change.

The unpopularity of the position changes nothing.

This forum is packed with US Airways fliers. They are naturally going to have a US Airways centric POV. If you did a straight-up vote of all FT'ers I'll bet you that PHL wouldn't make the top 5 (or bottom 5 depending on how you want to view the list) of "worst airports".


I think this is a really good point. I searched the Travel Buzz forum for threads containing the words "worst airport". TomBascom is correct - outside the US forum, PHL doesn't get much mention. It's hardly a scientific study, but it's definitely food for thought. Here are the threads I read:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295990
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=326983
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=326983
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296378

I think this is a really good point. I searched the Travel Buzz forum for threads containing the words "worst airport". TomBascom is correct - outside the US forum, PHL doesn't get much mention. It's hardly a scientific study, but it's definitely food for thought. Here are the threads I read:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295990
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=326983
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=326983
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296378

Of course PHL is mainly utilized by US FFers. It is a MAJOR hub and occupies a significant amount of gates at this airport. A person flying with another airline is much less likely to experience the connecting issues and ground staff (jetway and baggage) nightmares.

It is comical how a few of you (seems like the same few) try to paint PHL as an "OK Place" when dozens upon dozens of experienced travelers see it for the disaster that it is. This isn't a PIT vs PHL issue as it is quite clear to anyone with an objective viewpoint which is the better operating facility.

PHL will continue to lose US passengers as more travelers are forced through it. The large local population will keep the facility in business, but maybe not it's largest tenant.

Among the many "impossibles" found in this post, this one is clearly inaccurate. A quick look at www.phl.org indicates there is an active proposal to extend Runway 17-35.

I don't disagree that PHL is a poorly performing airport, and could use very new thinking and aggressive, responsive leadership. I vehemently disagree the situation is hopeless. I can never recommend to anyone to check bags either to or from this airport; that is unacceptable and must change.

Extending the runway will not improve traffic issues. This facility needs more runways, which are impossible.

I think that Tom's suggestions about filling in the river or landing on I-95 are much more feasible! :D

Extending the runway will not improve traffic issues. This facility needs more runways, which are impossible.

I think that Tom's suggestions about filling in the river or landing on I-95 are much more feasible! :D

Wrong - extending the runway even to the point that a 737 can take off on it (not sure if the proposal would allow this) would be a major improvement. I rarely have take-off delays in an RJ. Mainline can be disasterous. Waited 65 mins. in line on an SFO bound 8am US flight on a brilliant sunny day. Strictly traffic.

Arrival delays I do have ATC delays across the board. Not sure what a longer runway could do but probably something.

With all due respect, I have flown and connected through just about every major airport in the US over the last six years, and a few international one as well. My trips through PHL have easily the worst airport experiences I've had. Even during slow periods and with decent weather. I've experienced ORD many times as well as ATL, DFW, SFO, LAX, MIA, FLL, CVG, CLE, DTW, IAD, IAH, MSY, MCO, CLT, SAN, Midway, EWR, LGA, JFK, PHX,LAS,TPA,YYZ etc. etc. and IMHO, yes, PHL is unequivically, without a doubt, conclusively and consensually the worst AP in the US. I hope it will change as USs success now depends partially on the sucess of the PHL hub, but I agree with others that the decision to make PHL the primary expanding hub was a mistake of gargantuan porportions.

Yesterday, Mrs PB and myself saw the PHL factor in full bloom. I had read about supposed baggage sabotage by some US employees there. Yesterday, I saw it for myself.

We were connecting in PHL (during the middle of the Eagles game) and had just boarded our connecting flight. Sitting in 3D&F on a 737, we had a good view of the right side of the aircraft.

On the ground next to the aircraft was a largish stack of luggage that obviously had just been off-loaded (the flight was late coming in). There was one ramper with a tug and a baggage cart. The ramper starting kicking several pieces of luggage (sometimes violently) around the tarmac. He did this for several minutes. It was apparent from the expression on his face that he was angry about something.

Eventually, he started loading the cart. He would check the baggage tag for the destination and then throw it on the cart. On at least two occasions, the ramper, after looking at the tag, deliberately removed the tag and threw it into the back of cart and the now tag-less bag into another section of the cart. What a jerk! At least two bags didn't make it to their destination because this clown was taking out his anger on the customers. This is the kind of stuff US doesn't need. The PHL factor strikes once again.

Finally, after loading most of the bags on his cart, he drove off leaving several others on the ramp. These were still there we left about 15 minutes later.

Last night, we sent an email to customer service with a description of the guy. I don't know if it will do any good. I just wish I had my camera with me.

Wrong - extending the runway even to the point that a 737 can take off on it (not sure if the proposal would allow this) would be a major improvement. I rarely have take-off delays in an RJ. Mainline can be disasterous. Waited 65 mins. in line on an SFO bound 8am US flight on a brilliant sunny day. Strictly traffic.

Arrival delays I do have ATC delays across the board. Not sure what a longer runway could do but probably something.

With or without an extended runway PHL will continue to be a disaster. All this will do will be to make your RJ departures 65 minutes like the mainline aircraft have to wait.

The last two posters are representative of the opinions expressed by the vast majority of flyers who have utilized the PHL facility. There are no further excuses, the verdict is in:

PHL IS THE WORST AIRPORT IN AMERICA!

If the Eagles lose to the Falcons......expect it to get worse! :D

With or without an extended runway PHL will continue to be a disaster. All this will do will be to make your RJ departures 65 minutes like the mainline aircraft have to wait.

The last two posters are representative of the opinions expressed by the vast majority of flyers who have utilized the PHL facility. There are no further excuses, the verdict is in:

PHL IS THE WORST AIRPORT IN AMERICA!

If the Eagles lose to the Falcons......expect it to get worse! :D

Maintain my point that extending the runway would be an improvement.

An improvement to get it off the status of worst airport in America? Probably not. An improvement none the less.

About three years ago, someone sitting next to me on a plane trying to go through PHL told me that - I have always rememebred it and find it more and more true.

I've been CP for the last three years, fly domestically and live up in Rhode Island so I am almost always forced to make a connection. Before they downsized PIT, I always connected through PIT to avoid PHL. Now I try to go through DCA or CLT even though it might seem scheduled to be longer, I avoid the Eastern Seaboard mess in PHL.

When I have to go through PHL, I try to make it a point never to get the last flight so there will be a backup flight to catch, if necessary.

I make the JAX-PHL-JAX round trip 3 or 4 times every month and would say that the vast majority of my PHL experiences have been positive (I'm headed there this afternoon, in fact). I do run into the occassional baggage delay, including the dreaded muliptle carrousel reassignment game. The worst part of flying US out of PHL in my opinion is security. Pace and attitude are almost always problematic. I do like the US Airways Club at PHL and have found the woman who tends bar weekdays to be an unfailingly friendly person. PHL is not "top drawer", but neither is it at the bottom, in my experience. I've had more consistent problems at ATL.

Of course PHL is mainly utilized by US FFers. It is a MAJOR hub and occupies a significant amount of gates at this airport. A person flying with another airline is much less likely to experience the connecting issues and ground staff (jetway and baggage) nightmares.

It is comical how a few of you (seems like the same few) try to paint PHL as an "OK Place" when dozens upon dozens of experienced travelers see it for the disaster that it is. This isn't a PIT vs PHL issue as it is quite clear to anyone with an objective viewpoint which is the better operating facility.

PHL will continue to lose US passengers as more travelers are forced through it. The large local population will keep the facility in business, but maybe not it's largest tenant.

As an additional data point, JD Power's 2004 airport satisfaction survey, which rates based on pax perception, not quanitfiable data, had PHL below average, but not in the worst five, for medium-sized US airports.

You can read the abstract (with scores) here. (http://www.calgaryairport.com/fts/getfile.cfm?FID=5486) You'll be pleased to know that PIT is #1.

As an additional data point, JD Power's 2004 airport satisfaction survey, which rates based on pax perception, not quanitfiable data, had PHL below average, but not in the worst five, for medium-sized US airports.

You can read the abstract (with scores) here. (http://www.calgaryairport.com/fts/getfile.cfm?FID=5486) You'll be pleased to know that PIT is #1.

Why would PHL be considered "medium sized"? Isn't this one of the largest markets in the USA? PHL has to be in the top ten airports with regard to passengers boarded. I'd say this makes them a "large sized" airport.

Why would PHL be considered "medium sized"? Isn't this one of the largest markets in the USA? PHL has to be in the top ten airports with regard to passengers boarded. I'd say this makes them a "large sized" airport.

You're starting to see why PHL is considered to be underserved...

Why would PHL be considered "medium sized"? Isn't this one of the largest markets in the USA? PHL has to be in the top ten airports with regard to passengers boarded. I'd say this makes them a "large sized" airport.

The study in this case used a total number of enplanements and deplanements for airport size. "Medium" sized airports are between 10 and 30 million passengers annually. PHL is at 23.7 million and PIT is 14.2 million.

Philly is the 4th largest market in the US. The airport is 17th in enplanements.

But isn't there going to be considerable bleed between the PHL area and the New York area? I mean, there are people in the PHL metro area who fly out of Newark, and people in the New York metro area that fly out of PHL.

It's hard to sort out that mass of humanity :)

So what's more amusing, the regular PHL bashers vs PHL apologists threads, or the even more regular "What will happen to my miles" threads? I vote for this one. But I just love to badmouth PHL (the area, not the poster LOL)

The study in this case used a total number of enplanements and deplanements for airport size. "Medium" sized airports are between 10 and 30 million passengers annually. PHL is at 23.7 million and PIT is 14.2 million.

Philly is the 4th largest market in the US. The airport is 17th in enplanements.


Correct me if i am wrong, but enplanemets and deplanements is not the same as O&D. Philadelphia is ranked 17th because even though it is a hub airport, it is not a hub to the extent that Atlanta (smaller market than Philly) or Dallas (slightly smaller market than Philly) are etc. Also when you live in Dallas and need to travel pretty much anywhere, you fly out of DFW (or Love Field). When you live in Phily you can

a. Take Amtrak if you are going to DC, Baltimore, NYC or points in CT and NJ.

b. Drive. A huge portion of the nations population lives within a four hour drive of Philly.

c. Choose to fly out of EWR, JFK, LGA, BWI depending on where in the "Philly market" one lives.

This same analogy can be made to other cities including DEN and PHX. Those cities have vitually no train service (and destinations are too far to make them feasible for most travel), no alternative airports within reasonable driving distance, and no major population centers within a four hour drive. Is Philadelphia underserved? It would depend., but actual population is not a good indicator of being underserved.

While PHL is bad, I would have to say DL's JFK terminal is the worst. What a horrible first impression of the USA/NYC is given with the custom and terminal facilities of DL/JFK

Getting between A and E Terminals is bad, but as an "alien", ive suffered much worse immigration than PHL, ATL and LAX are slower and PHL is at least quite modern.

After reading all your posts I'm looking forward for my first ever connection at PHL in 3 weeks. (MUC-PHL-YUL) :(

What's the issue about security at PHL? Why are those guys the worst?

Needless to say that int'l <=> domestic/canadian connecting at ANY US airport is a nightmare, specially for non us-citizens.... :mad:

The e-terminal in JAX imploded while I was in the middle of check-in, but the counter agent was right there, and quickly processed my e-ticket and checked my bag. The flight was fine and on-time. Upon arrival in PHL I hiked down to baggage claim, checked the monitors, and headed to carrousel A as indicated. 20 minutes later they announced on the PA system that the bags from JAX we being off-loaded on carrousel B. 10 more minutes and the JAX flight was indicated as being off-loaded on the monitor at A. Ten minutes later, barely audible, they announced that JAX bags were arriving on carrousel C. And so they were. Dancing the caroussel shuffle at PHL...I'll add this trip to my "not so good" list. :p

The e-terminal in JAX imploded while I was in the middle of check-in, but the counter agent was right there, and quickly processed my e-ticket and checked my bag. The flight was fine and on-time. Upon arrival in PHL I hiked down to baggage claim, checked the monitors, and headed to carrousel A as indicated. 20 minutes later they announced on the PA system that the bags from JAX we being off-loaded on carrousel B. 10 more minutes and the JAX flight was indicated as being off-loaded on the monitor at A. Ten minutes later, barely audible, they announced that JAX bags were arriving on carrousel C. And so they were. Dancing the caroussel shuffle at PHL...I'll add this trip to my "not so good" list. :p

I heard on here that US is getting better--they are just "stepping back and taking the long view".

Apparently a long view deciding which carousel among A, B or C to use.

LOL--it sounds like the old game show "Let's make a Deal"--substituting carousels for doors.

Was the lovely Carol Merrill around to smile and point the carousels out while you waited for the baggage handlers to do their best imitation of the contestant unable to decide between A, B or C...?

.. :p

The e-terminal in JAX imploded while I was in the middle of check-in, but the counter agent was right there, and quickly processed my e-ticket and checked my bag. The flight was fine and on-time. Upon arrival in PHL I hiked down to baggage claim, checked the monitors, and headed to carrousel A as indicated. 20 minutes later they announced on the PA system that the bags from JAX we being off-loaded on carrousel B. 10 more minutes and the JAX flight was indicated as being off-loaded on the monitor at A. Ten minutes later, barely audible, they announced that JAX bags were arriving on carrousel C. And so they were. Dancing the caroussel shuffle at PHL...I'll add this trip to my "not so good" list. :p

Just think of it as getting a good cardio workout for the day :)

In the past 12 months, I have been through PHL 5 times (not a huge sample set). My observations:

1) Domestic roundtrip PIT -> PHL:

Inbound leg no issues. Carry on baggage only.

Outbound leg, very long lines for security at PHL. TSA poorly managing the lines not clearly indicating where the preferred and non-preferred lines were located. Lines were so long (back into the bridge walkway to the hotels and trains) that you couldn't see any signs near the front of the line. Many non-preferred people accidentally in the wrong line. TSA didn't tell them until they were near the front of the line and made them wait again. I was non-preferred at the time. Fortunately I took the initiative to check up front before getting online so I was in the correct line. I have no issue with preferred and non-preferred lines being enforced (I encourage it); however, people need to be accurately directed to the correct line. Took me over 60 minutes to get through security. My own experiences with the security line, feedback from FT, and ticket prices convinced me to drive from PIT to PHL for the remainder of this project. My door to door travel time was generally less when driving than when flying.

2) International Connection PIT -> PHL -> MAD:

On the outbound leg I had the choice of a <1 HR connection or a 3.5 HR connection. Since I was making the last flight to MAD (??? I think only flight to MAD) for the day, I went conservative and chose the long connection time. PIT to PHL leg was on time and I could have made the shorter connection. Got dinner in PHL and had plenty of time to make the long walk from the domestic gates to A west international gates. I don't regret my choice.

On the inbound leg, plane I also had about a 3.5 HR connection time. Plane was ontime from Mad. About a 15 minute line to get through immigration. For customs, one of the luggage converyor belts broke down as we arrived (of course it was the one where they had just started to load our luggage). Luggage delivery delayed approx. 1 Hour. Once I received my luggage took about 15 minutes to clear agriculture and customs. Next, re-clearing security for the domestic leg was a nightmare. The line stretched from the checkpoing almost all the way back to the luggage re-check area in International. Took 45 minutes to re-clear security. After a long walk, scurried to our domestic gate and got their about when boarding should have begun. Mechanical problem. Fortunately another 757 arrived at a nearby gate and they decided to reallocate that plane to our flight. Gave us a chance to buy a quick sandwich for dinner before departing. So what should have been an easy connection with lots of time to spare was very harried and never racking. There were a bunch later flights to PIT so it would have been annoying but not a catastrophe if we missed our connection.


3) Domestic Trip PIT -> PHL (US) PGL -> ORD (UA, mini MR) on 12/29

Needed one more segment to make PremEx for the year. With my other constraints PHL was the only connection that would give me enough miles and work with my schedule. US flight arrived on time after a short ground hold in PIT and UA flight departed on time. Checked baggage made the connection with no issues. Very smooth.


General observations on PHL:

1) US Hubs: Security at PHL is a nightmare. Being preferred now would help some what. Don't have enough data points to judge baggage yet; however, I am leery to find out based on my direct experience and FT input. Walking between gates (even just domestic) is fairly long. 2 out of 5 experiences were good. Overall, PHL remains on my avoid if possible list. My connection experiences in CLT have been good and that is my preferred US hub when I must connect.

2) Food options and shopping options are fairly good. Alcohol prices are high. Overall different but on par with my home airport PIT. Each excels at different items.

Observations on other non-US Hubs:

1)ORD: Also despite it's reputation, I have reasonablely good experiences with ORD both for O&D and connections. I have family in Chicagoland, so do O&D 2-3 times a year plus a bunch of connections for business travel. If I have a choice of connecting in ORD on UA/TED or PHL in US, ORD will win everytime. UX at ORD is pretty bad based on my wifes experiences.

2) IAD: Only been through IAD once, but that was enough. The crazy terminal design is enough for me to put it on my avoid if possible list.

3) DEN: Very long security line for non-preferreds though it moved quickly. Would be a piece of cake now that I am preferred. O&D trip with carry on baggage. Flights ontime for both legs. First time through DEN. Need more experience to draw a general conclusion, but seems fine so far.

3) ATL: On another note, recently had a EWR -> ATL trip which wound up on Delta for a variety of reasons. ATL doesn't appear to be any great shakes from my limited sample set. Flights delayed both inbound and outbound due to weather. To be fair there was quite a bit of rain on the east coast the days I flew and other hubs (CLT, PHL, IAD) may have been backed up as well. Don't know. Been through ATL a number of times years ago but don't remember anything especially postivie or negative in my previous experience. Jury is still out on ATL for me. Probabely a non issue since I try to book Star Alliance whenever I can reasonablely do so.


--Jon

Yesterday, I got back from a short trip to London, and like most of the people, had to travel through PHL.

(Some may be off-topic - if excessive, please let me know):

PIT -> PHL -> LGW. Had to get two bags changed from carry-on to checked because of too little space (PIT -> PHL, Airbus 320). Bags made it to LGW in reasonable time (within 10 minutes of my passing customs). Long walk from B terminal to A-West caused a bit of concern, but we made the flight with time to spare. One hour, 15 minute delay on runway (17 planes)

LGW -> PHL -> PIT. 30 minute delay on runway (LGW), led to 50 minute overall delay going back (arrived at 4 PM). Amazingly, made it through immigration and customs in 15 minutes, fast recheck, and was at the gate for the PHL -> PIT flight (5:00 PM, Gate B-9) at 4:45.

Quick comments:

1. Yes, PHL needs an extra runway for international flights. A 75 minute delay is annoying, especially when there isn't much info given on the delay.
2. Experience coming back was not bad. Lines were very short (8 people for immigration, 1-2 for customs and security).
3. PHL seems much improved in immigration compared to last time I traveled (to Mumbai on Lufthansa, 1999).
4. I really don't like the airport design, and it becomes a major liability for tight connections, especially on US. (No surprise there)

My parents flew AVP-PHL-LAX yesterday. They took off from PHL 2 hours late. Upon landing, only 1 of their 3 bags arrived. There were at least 10 people from their flight who lost bags. Of those, at least 4 of them were F passengers (the other 2 were CP's, also with priority tags on their luggage). There may have even been a 5th F passenger, but they weren't sure. (They deduced this because my mother was talking to him, and he mentioned he flew over 200K miles/year, but he may split his travel among other airlines. They don't remember seeing him in F.) So US lost the bags of AT LEAST 1/6 of the F cabin. How unconscionable is that? And that is not taking into account the F customers who don't check bags. I called the 800# & spoke to Allen's cousin (I forget his name), and it was only after 3 or 4 times repeating the claim # that I got an "update" on the bags.

P.S. The lost baggage office at LAX was just useless. My parents ended up going back to LAX last night, and they found their bags just sitting there in a sea of bags, completely unattended.

For ORD, I have to say that AA operates much much better than UA.

Last round trip with connection in ORD booked on UA were both rerouted on AA (also through ORD) due to delay and cancellation of UA flights. However, AA managed well for same route.

I don't know how many votes that I get...but here's another against:

Yesterday, with the couple of inches of snow we had, I was delayed for FIVE HOURS on a PIT-PHL flight! We left the gate at PIT on time....but sat in the plane for five hours before receiving clearance from PHL to take off. During this time we had wild updates, from leaving momentarily to another two hours. It was obvious that nobody in PHL had a clue as to what was going on.

Before you post your "PHL can't help it if the weather is bad" comments, I fully understand this. However the facility never closed, flights were landing all day. For some reason, they couldn't find a 20 second slot for my flight to land.

Evidently PHL had to shut down one runway supposedly to clear snow away. I can't believe that it takes that long to clear two lousy runways. When we got to PHL, there was almost nothing on the ground.

Last time I checked, it does snow in PHL...sometimes alot. This was by no means a major snow storm, in fact it was quite normal for the region. How can a major hub facility be crippled by a standard snow storm? I watched other flights departing PIT for cities in the NorthEast.......no problem.

My saga was that instead of arriving in PHL at 2:30 for my 6PM departure to FCO, I arrived at 7:30! They put me on the last TransAtlantic flight still around to MUC. Instead of arriving in FCO at 8:30AM, I arrived tonight at 5:00PM. All because a simple 40 minute flight from PIT-PHL was not possible due to THE WORST AIRPORT IN AMERICA!

Okay -- I was stuck by the snow PHL last night as well...for awhile...and it was my point of origination as per my usual turn-around back to JAX. They were clearing runways with plows -- not much snow, but it was blowing. All outbound craft were herded to de-icing creating additional delays. That said, I have to send kudos to US. While we waited for our aircraft to come in from West Palm (4 hours late --would have arrived at 8:15) they found another plane and crew who were literlly minutes from their max, put us on board and sent us on our way. We were about 90 minutes late. The crew was absolutely exceptional. Good humor from the flight deck, all smiles from the FAs, and superior service -- best I've had in a long while on US. Great attitudes that impressed the heck out of me after a long day and generally crummy trip (screwed up hotel reservation and 2 hours to drive 21 miles on I-95 in the snow). They should have this crew (flt 783, PHL-JAX) train the rest of the company on exceptional customer service. Nice job.

Well, as bad as PHL is (and, since I am a captive here, I fly out of PHL almost exclusively), MIA is still worse in my book.

Djlawman

Yes, I would say that PHL is the worst airport in the U.S.

I thought the terminals and facilites are nice when I first visited PHL.

However, upon taxing to a runway for taking off, it became hell.

The major problem is the runways.

They have four runways which are considred as plentiful for most airports.

But one of them can't be used since the end of the runway towards right to the building.

Another runway can be used by only regional aircrafts as it's fairly short.

Basically, only two runways are usable for mainline aircrafts.

Considering PHL is the biggest hub of US and the 30th busiest airport in the world in terms of passengeres, two runways can't accomodate them.

The only solution to make PHL better is constructing more runways.

Do they have plan to make more runways?

They have been wanting to build more runways hoever, Delaware (so I hear) is putting up a major fight stating that the planes will fly right over housing developments.

I am sure someone who is from that area on here can tell you more than I can.

T

There is information on http://www.phl.org/index.html about the expansion. Go to the bottom right on the page - Runway 17-35 EIS Information and Runway 17-35 Letter of Support.

I don't know how many votes that I get...but here's another against:

Yesterday, with the couple of inches of snow we had, I was delayed for FIVE HOURS on a PIT-PHL flight! We left the gate at PIT on time....but sat in the plane for five hours before receiving clearance from PHL to take off. During this time we had wild updates, from leaving momentarily to another two hours. It was obvious that nobody in PHL had a clue as to what was going on.

Before you post your "PHL can't help it if the weather is bad" comments, I fully understand this. However the facility never closed, flights were landing all day. For some reason, they couldn't find a 20 second slot for my flight to land.

Evidently PHL had to shut down one runway supposedly to clear snow away. I can't believe that it takes that long to clear two lousy runways. When we got to PHL, there was almost nothing on the ground.

Last time I checked, it does snow in PHL...sometimes alot. This was by no means a major snow storm, in fact it was quite normal for the region. How can a major hub facility be crippled by a standard snow storm? I watched other flights departing PIT for cities in the NorthEast.......no problem.

My saga was that instead of arriving in PHL at 2:30 for my 6PM departure to FCO, I arrived at 7:30! They put me on the last TransAtlantic flight still around to MUC. Instead of arriving in FCO at 8:30AM, I arrived tonight at 5:00PM. All because a simple 40 minute flight from PIT-PHL was not possible due to THE WORST AIRPORT IN AMERICA!

I'm sorry to hear about your travel woes. It sounds very frustrating. I have no idea what it is about this area (I live outside PHL), but we just cannot deal with snow. Whenever snow is predicted, it is the major news story on the news. When it does snow, the news consists of 10 mins. of this kind of coverage: "We are here in Center city. It's snowing. Now lets go to Ms. X who is in Delaware county. Ms. X: It is snowing here. Look at the cars on the road. There goes a plow truck! Now let's go to NJ, where, guess what?! It's SNOWING!" With 6-12" predicted tomorrow and with the Eagles in the play-offs, nothing newsworthy will be on the news b/c it will be dominated by snow coverage and shots of people in sports bars. Yes, we have real insightful news coverage here in PHL.

The grocery stores will be packed today with people buying milk and bread in preparation for the snow storm. The lines at the groceries stores and at Home Depot will also be shown on the news. Sigh.

The grocery stores will be packed today with people buying milk and bread in preparation for the snow storm. The lines at the groceries stores and at Home Depot will also be shown on the news. Sigh.

This has always bothered me. Does everyone make French Toast when it snows??:D Or do people suddenly start using more bread, milk and eggs?
It's really unbelievable how threat of snow changes behavior here.

karens -- you summed it up very nicely about how the media in PHL overplays weather coverage, you would think that the rest of the world comes grinding to a halt when we get bad weather.

I have eggs, but am out of milk, and cream cheese. Ooh! And I think I'll bake some apple bread on Saturday during the snow, so maybe I'll buy apples and flour. Think I have everything else I need...

First, I want to congratulate everyone for staying on topic for more than 7 pages. Could be an FT record.

Second, it has been a long time since I had to hunker down in a snowstorm. It sounds like getting ready for a hurricane but we stock up on water, ice, batteries, beer and rum. ^

To bring this back on topic, I am supposed to do an MR tomorrow, going JAX - PHL - BDL - PHL - BDL - PHL - JAX. I wonder if US will allow me to resched for one week later without fees? Last thing I want is to get stuck in a deicing line. Well, no; the last thing I want is to be stuck at PHL on Saturday night.

To bring this back on topic, I am supposed to do an MR tomorrow, going JAX - PHL - BDL - PHL - BDL - PHL - JAX. I wonder if US will allow me to resched for one week later without fees? Last thing I want is to get stuck in a deicing line. Well, no; the last thing I want is to be stuck at PHL on Saturday night.

Let me know what US tells you -- I have a MR scheduled for Sunday with EnvoyBoy and Wahooflyer -- I would gladly reschedule given the forecast.

To bring this back on topic, I am supposed to do an MR tomorrow, going JAX - PHL - BDL - PHL - BDL - PHL - JAX. I wonder if US will allow me to resched for one week later without fees? Last thing I want is to get stuck in a deicing line. Well, no; the last thing I want is to be stuck at PHL on Saturday night.

US has already relaxed its change policies in anticipation of the weather:

http://usairways.com/travel/airport/index.htm

To bring this back on topic, I am supposed to do an MR tomorrow, going JAX - PHL - BDL - PHL - BDL - PHL - JAX. I wonder if US will allow me to resched for one week later without fees? Last thing I want is to get stuck in a deicing line. Well, no; the last thing I want is to be stuck at PHL on Saturday night.

Look at the bright side: If you do get stuck in PHL, you'll have that much more to post in this thread. :rolleyes:

P.S. What's snow?? :D (It's supposed to be 75 degrees in LA today.)

Let me know what US tells you -- I have a MR scheduled for Sunday with EnvoyBoy and Wahooflyer -- I would gladly reschedule given the forecast.


The reservations were moved 7 days later, same flights, without any problems or charges. Of course, I already have 20 bags of chocolate covered popcorn ready to go.

As for SS255, it is 70 degrees here now. Today is my first day off since January 2. After lunch, I'm taking a kayak out in the ocean and one of my water bottles will be filled with gin and tonic. Paddle a while, check out the scenery, replenish fluids and repeat. Check in with y'all later.

Let me know what US tells you -- I have a MR scheduled for Sunday with EnvoyBoy and Wahooflyer -- I would gladly reschedule given the forecast.

PHL: light snow in the AM Sunday

RDU: expecting snow and ice Saturday but clear skies on Sunday, with highs in the low 30s. Ice storms are always bad in NC because there are fewer plows, salt and sand but presumably everything will be de-iced at the airport there on Sunday.

PVD: snow showers all day Sunday

I say we keep our MR as is for now, as it looks like most of the major storm activity will occur on Saturday.

This has always bothered me. Does everyone make French Toast when it snows??:D Or do people suddenly start using more bread, milk and eggs?


You forgot about the beer, Dukeman. There's also a run on beer in WV. ;)

Karens,

Your post had me ROTF!!! :D They do the same thing in the Washington DC area. You were to think a CAT 5 hurricane was about to come or something.

As much as I love US Airways. PHL is a complete disaster. Now US' plans are to de-peak PHL. When is that suppose to happen???

Question: Are the Express runways that short that a 737 could not take off from?

I know (and I could not believe that we did this) that an Airbus 321 took off out of DCA on one of the cross run ways. I had never seen that before and did not know it could be done. I almost lost my cookies on that one.

I am hoping that the de-peaking that they are talking about doing (which has been talk forever) helps the congestion out.

T

Karens,

Your post had me ROTF!!! :D They do the same thing in the Washington DC area. You were to think a CAT 5 hurricane was about to come or something.

As much as I love US Airways. PHL is a complete disaster. Now US' plans are to de-peak PHL. When is that suppose to happen???

Question: Are the Express runways that short that a 737 could not take off from?

I know (and I could not believe that we did this) that an Airbus 321 took off out of DCA on one of the cross run ways. I had never seen that before and did not know it could be done. I almost lost my cookies on that one.

I am hoping that the de-peaking that they are talking about doing (which has been talk forever) helps the congestion out.

T

De-peaking begins Feb. 6. I'm actually flying out of PHL that day. Will be interesting. However, not as de-peaked as one would like. INTL departures are still as lumped as they used to be. Looks the same for carribean outbounds and retursn.

Express runways. Never have I seen a 737 on them but I did see a post that an A319 did it. Living in PHL though, I swear they built that runway strictly for commuter pilots. But as I think I posted before, it's such a dangerous runway not even all commuter pilots will accept a slot on it.

Why is this runway so dangerous. I really don't know. I do see a poster mentioned that one of the runways goes towards the terminal. Is this the one?

T

Why is this runway so dangerous. I really don't know. I do see a poster mentioned that one of the runways goes towards the terminal. Is this the one?

T

The runway that goes into the terminal I have never used. That is the one that is considered most dangerous. The one that runs almost parallel to Terminal E though (you come in usually over the river and clear the oil tanker that sits there by about 5 feet) is barely any longer at 5460 feet. Don't think you can land a 737 on that. Don't know how they could enlongate it. I went out on the FAA to look at a map. If you want to, just go to the website, airport diagrams and type in PHL. It's a PDF file.

The runway that goes into the terminal I have never used. That is the one that is considered most dangerous. The one that runs almost parallel to Terminal E though (you come in usually over the river and clear the oil tanker that sits there by about 5 feet) is barely any longer at 5460 feet. Don't think you can land a 737 on that. Don't know how they could enlongate it. I went out on the FAA to look at a map. If you want to, just go to the website, airport diagrams and type in PHL. It's a PDF file.

There is a plan to extend that runway (17/35) to 6500 feet, which would be long enough to land 737s.

There is a long term expansion project to add capacity as well. The most informative site I could find is
here. (http://www.phl-caw.org/philadelphia-airport-phl-17-35-runway-expansion.html) Be aware, though, that this group is against all expansion in Philly, as far as I can tell.

I know my complaint is not specifically about the airport itself but I think it is relevant because it is part of the PHL airport experience. My issue involves the rental car pick-up and return problems. I drove to the rental car location from my airport hotel yesterday morning and the drive took about 3-4 minutes. The drive from there to the airport had to take 10-15 minutes. People were starting to ask if they were on the correct shuttle and was it really going to the airport. I know that doesn't sound like a long time but I do believe it is the longest time travel to the airport I've experienced. What makes it worse is the fact that you can see the airport from the rental car locations and you'd swear you were only about 1000 feet away at any given time. If it wasn't freezing cold outside I'd suggest walking to anyone who has the choice.
Maybe I'm the only one this ticks off, maybe not. Anyone else out there bothered by the travel time involved with renting a car at PHL?

De-peaking begins Feb. 6. I'm actually flying out of PHL that day. Will be interesting. However, not as de-peaked as one would like. INTL departures are still as lumped as they used to be. Looks the same for carribean outbounds and retursn.

Express runways. Never have I seen a 737 on them but I did see a post that an A319 did it. Living in PHL though, I swear they built that runway strictly for commuter pilots. But as I think I posted before, it's such a dangerous runway not even all commuter pilots will accept a slot on it.

So what specifically is "DePeaking"? I can guess that US plans to put fewer flights through PHL at peak morning/evening times.......but where do these flights go?

I have a good suggestion where peak flights can be moved.....but don't want to sound like I'm waving the PIT flag again, so will keep it to myself! :D

So what specifically is "DePeaking"? I can guess that US plans to put fewer flights through PHL at peak morning/evening times.......but where do these flights go?

I have a good suggestion where peak flights can be moved.....but don't want to sound like I'm waving the PIT flag again, so will keep it to myself! :D

As it was explained to me viv a vis DL in ATL--the idea is that instead of having banks of closely spaced flights arriving and departing in a short span of time with relatively low levels of activity in between the banks of fights, the idea is to spread the flights out so that there is a more even level of activity throughout the day--minimizing delays and allowing the airlines to more efficiently utilize employees.

Now--my assumption is that such a strategy must lead to longer connection times, on average.

So--the question may be for US--at which airport do you think that your pax would prefer to wile away an extra hour of connection time..?

..

So--the question may be for US--at which airport do you think that your pax would prefer to wile away an extra hour of connection time..?

..

I don't think there is anything wrong with waiting for a connection at PHL. They have several great Clubs that help pass the time. They have a great view of the runways. Bring a airband radio, plug in your headphones and sit in the club and listen to all the activity.

PHL Tower = 118.5

Now if you are referring to waiting in the terminal -- no thanks. There are also a few decent restaurants and bars that you could wait in, but I prefer the peace and quiet of the Club.

In the midst of this crazy winter storm, all NE airports are open and operating with no or normal delays of less than fifteen minutes.

PHL is CLOSED :eek: :td: :mad:

http://www.fly.faa.gov/flyfaa/usmap.jsp

Anyone else out there bothered by the travel time involved with renting a car at PHL?

I'm an Avis Preferred guy, in and out of there 2 or 3 times per month. The problem seems to be that the shuttles have to actually leave the airport property, jump onto the local surface streets, then re-enter the airport to get to the drop-offs. You're right that it is a major run around, but it really only takes about 6 minutes from the Avis lot to terminal B/C. WOrse than some, but not intolerable, in my opinion...

As it was explained to me viv a vis DL in ATL--the idea is that instead of having banks of closely spaced flights arriving and departing in a short span of time with relatively low levels of activity in between the banks of fights, the idea is to spread the flights out so that there is a more even level of activity throughout the day--minimizing delays and allowing the airlines to more efficiently utilize employees.

Now--my assumption is that such a strategy must lead to longer connection times, on average.

So--the question may be for US--at which airport do you think that your pax would prefer to wile away an extra hour of connection time..?

..

Yes longer connection times on averaage. Depeaking only works with airports with a good amount of O&D traffic and also a critical mass of frequencies. Like MEM for NW or SLC for DL would be impossible to depeak. US is signifigantly adding frequencies along with the depaking to 495 flights per day. I think it's a great idea.

I have a good suggestion where peak flights can be moved.....but don't want to sound like I'm waving the PIT flag again, so will keep it to myself! :D

If you wave it, I will salute it. ;)

My parents flew LAX-PHL-AVP yesterday. Their LAX-PHL flight (US 12) departed relatively on time. Their connecting flight was delayed by an hour, due to a delay in the incoming aircraft (from Harrisburg). Then by 2 hours. I checked the arrivals/departures on www.phl.org, and saw that US delays in & out of PHL were running between 2-5 hours for the flights that weren't cancelled. Delays on other carriers were running between on time & 2.5 hours. Hmmmm...

They finally boarded 3 hours late, and ended up sitting on the plane for another hour because "...folks, we're just waiting to load luggage coming in from 'all over.'" They landed in AVP four hours behind schedule. 3 bags came off the belt - none of which belonged to anybody on the flight. The passengers were livid, and my parents heard more than a few comments to rival some of the bile I've seen posted on this board.

They and several other passengers waited for the next flight to arrive at 1:15AM, since they suspected their bags were on it. They were. They also said they saw some of the other passengers from their flight get their bags, but they didn't stick around once they had their bags.

Direct quote from my mother: "I have never in my life experienced an airport so CONSISTENTLY awful as Philadelphia."

I understand that operations get out of whack during a snowstorm. But there is just NO EXCUSE for the baggage fiasco on US 3754 last night. These pax were delayed 4 hours, not including layover time. How in the world could US not get even one customer's bags from Point A to Point B in a four-hour timespan? I just don't get it. Consumer Affairs will be getting a letter about this.

I'm starting to agree with your mother about PHL, SS255. After we all boarded, my flight back to RDU yesterday was delayed 45 minutes because no one could find a ground crew to push the plane back!

I never check bags so lost/delayed luggage isn't a concern for me personally, but ground delays in PHL make me want to avoid that airport as much as possible. Security lines are often very long as well.

I do agree with dukeman that the Club is one of the best in the system, however. Nice atmosphere to relax in before having to head out to the gate.

I do agree with dukeman that the Club is one of the best in the system, however. Nice atmosphere to relax in before having to head out to the gate.

Very true about the Club, but it's like dousing yourself with perfume after working out, instead of showering: You can try to cover it up, but you still stink.

The Jfk Delta Termanal Is A Dump! :(

The Jfk Delta Termanal Is A Dump! :(

It may be, but:

1. They meet the plane promptly and pull the jetway up immediately (versus a 10-30 minute wait in PHL).
2. They finish loading bags on the plane prior to completion of boarding (versus a lag of 10-90 minutes in PHL).

A dump that may be efficient can be tolerated. I wouldn't say that PHL is a dump......it's just a terribly inefficient operation.

Apparently the Philadelphia airport (or flying Southwest) can drive you crazy: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/26/airplane.struggle/index.html (LOL)

I thought I was so sm-rt by routing my last flight through Charlotte, but of course there was a delay since the staff didn't yet do the pre-flight check for a plane that was sitting at the gate overnight. Ugh. After nearly 2 million miles earned on USAirways I hope I don't have to fly them again, ever.