Starwood Preferred Guest - Care to Speculate/Wish on Cat Changes?

With 2005 approaching we prob have 3-7 days before the list of new cat changes are made avail. Someone said (their guess) due to currency fluc it will prob be alot intl properties going up..

Well here's a wish. Some US properties go down if that happens.. In particular Westin las Vegas and Aladdin. Caesars was level 3, so both should hopefully go down to level 3 from 4.

The Sheraton PVR going from 3 to 2 would be nice as well


With the decisions already made this thread prob wont have a say, but will be interesting to see what people think vs whats done

With the decisions already made this thread prob wont have a say, but will be interesting to see what people think vs whats doneSince categories are based on avg daily rates, I can't imagine the thread would have a say anyway. ;)

We already have pretty good guesses that existing Cat 4 NYC hotels will be Cat 5 (from Lurker) and that in general international properties esp in Europe will go higher (due to sliding dollar).

I wouldn't expect the category rating of the PVR Sheraton to fall, though I haven't been watching their room rates. A couple years ago the PVR Westin was Cat 2 and it then bumped to Cat 4. The recovering and rebuilding of the Sheraton, I would think, would lead to higher rather than lower rates?

Regardless, book any planned award stays over the next couple of days. You can always cancel and rebook if the award categories go down, and you're protected in case the category classification goes up.

Since categories are based on avg daily rates, I can't imagine the thread would have a say anyway. ;)

bingo. categories are based on average daily room rates, not how nice a property looks. so, anyone that would guess in this thread would be doing just that....guessing.

bingo. categories are based on average daily room rates, not how nice a property looks. so, anyone that would guess in this thread would be doing just that....guessing.

I agree that it will be guessing; however, I also think that a lot of us have an idea on what's happening with room rates in some markets (i.e. New York City).

One guess that I will venture is, if the Hawaiian SPG properties remain, that the categories might go up on the Royal Hawaiian and the Moana Surfrider.

William has already unofficially stated that all Cat 4 properties in New York would be bumping up to a Cat 5.

William has already unofficially stated that all Cat 4 properties in New York would be bumping up to a Cat 5.

really? i must have missed that one. and, he usually pleads ignorance on many/most spg issues (i.e., he usually "reads it here first"). :)

Well here's a few NYC changes and "stay the sames."


W New York - Times Square
New York , New York 0.35 mi 10,000
Category 4

W New York - Union Square
New York , New York 1.49 mi 12,000-16,000
Category 5

W New York - The Court
New York , New York 0.65 mi 12,000-16,000
Category 5

The Westin New York at Times Square
New York , New York 0.25 mi 10,000
Category 4

Sheraton Russell Hotel
New York , New York 0.74 mi 10,000
Category 4

W New York
New York , New York 0.89 mi 10,000
Category 4

W New York - The Tuscany
New York , New York 0.65 mi 12,000-16,000
Category 5

Westin Essex House on Central Park
New York , New York 0.76 mi 10,000
Category 4

And as far as Hawaii goes, it looks like I was wrong on my guess - although I'm not sure if the category 5s were already category 5s or not, but my guess was focused on Oahu anyway.

Has everything in fact been updated on the website? :confused:

Has everything in fact been updated on the website? :confused:

Good point - this was what had been updated so far early this morning.

I cant imagine the W New York being bumped to a Cat 5, they have the worlds smallest rooms and by far the smallest elevator I have ever been in. Sheraton Russell doesnt seem worthy of a Cat 5 either.

Here is my prediction/speculation;

All the hotels that people love to stay in will go up one level.

All the overpriced hotels that people love to hate will go up one level.

All the hotels that nobody cares about will go down one level.

The rest will remain the same.

Predictions good for any year. :)

I cant imagine the W New York being bumped to a Cat 5, they have the worlds smallest rooms and by far the smallest elevator I have ever been in. Sheraton Russell doesnt seem worthy of a Cat 5 either.

the rooms could be smaller than a janitor's closet....matters not. again, it's not the quality of the property but the average room rate that is used to determine a hotel's category.

I cant imagine the W New York being bumped to a Cat 5, they have the worlds smallest rooms and by far the smallest elevator I have ever been in.

the rooms could be smaller than a janitor's closet....matters not. again, it's not the quality of the property but the average room rate that is used to determine a hotel's category.

There are 2 hotels in particular Im hoping dont change their cat rating and haven't yet... Anyone know if the changes were made on the web yet for only a few or all the hotels that are going to change?

it's not the quality of the property but the average room rate that is used to determine a hotel's category.


While I accept this is probably the rule many exceptions clearly exist.

Does anyone realistically think the average rate of the Aladdin in LV merits a Cat 4? I'm sure they negotiated a higher classification when joining Starwood.

It always seems that "New" and or "Tourist popular" hotels start with a higher rating than one would anticipate.

And I thought the thread was about cats getting equal rights with dogs at all Sheratons.

Do we have a sense of what average daily room rates equate with which categories?

Something like
Sub $80 = Cat 1
$80 - $130 = Cat 2
$130 - $180 = Cat 3
$180 - $250 = Cat 4
$250 - $400 = Cat 5
$400+ = Cat 6

Now, the above is not correct. Please don't take it as accurate. I'm only trying to illustrate what I'm talking about... any insights?

And a slightly related question: why do some hotels participate in Cash & Points and not others? My sense is that SPG pays about a penny a point to the hotel.. so a cat 4 property gets $100 for a room night, at least based on the points that have posted for me in error when on award bookings.

If that's true, then cash & points would seem to yield more or less the same reimbusement to the hotel (cat 4 = $60 + 4000 in points or $40 = $100 / cat 3 = $45 + 2800 points or $28 = $73 compared to 7k points or ~ $70). Am I reading this wrong?

I assumed that only some properties participated in cash & points because the reimbursement rate was lower than a standard award, but it seems to me that it likely is not. Perhaps properties participating in cash & points reveals a property's general enthusiasm for accepting award bookings? Some properties want to make it easier (and thus take that incremental revenue) and some do not (for fear of displacing paid bookings)?

We are staying in London in February and I had not yet made my award stay reservations. I made them last night. The categories were the same as of last night for all London hotels.
I would be bummed if it went up a category before I had made them.

I thought that category ratings were also based on the demand for award rooms. For instance, rooms in NYC are categorically higher than similarly priced hotels, in part, because of the demand for award rooms. I guess an even better example might be some of the Disney properties, perhaps?

Stevekoe

I thought that category ratings were also based on the demand for award rooms. For instance, rooms in NYC are categorically higher than similarly priced hotels, in part, because of the demand for award rooms. I guess an even better example might be some of the Disney properties, perhaps?

Stevekoe

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=171125

I thought that category ratings were also based on the demand for award rooms. For instance, rooms in NYC are categorically higher than similarly priced hotels, in part, because of the demand for award rooms. I guess an even better example might be some of the Disney properties, perhaps?

Stevekoe

I'm pretty certain that William has been emphatic about the average revenue thing, and it makes sense. The hotel gets reimbursed based on the number of points that we are being charged.

Thanks for the correction. It must have been on the Hilton or Marriott forums where I read about category ratings based, at least in part, on the number of award nights claimed.

My bad.

Stevekoe

I do recall reading that the Starwood reimbursement rate goes up when a hotel is close to capacity.

It may well be that a hotel which is consistently full would get a higher category rating than its avg daily rate might otherwise warrant?

And of course a new hotel can't possibly have this historical data to go off of, so presumably category ratings are based on something else.

Finally, I wonder if there might be some tinkering at the margins? That it wouldn't like right for certain properties to receive too low a rating, or that Starwood is trying to keep a property in the fold and there might be some room for negotiations?

While I'm sure that the general answer that category ratings are based on ADR is correct, I'll probably never know what other factors might be included as well.