US Airways Dividend Miles (Pre-FlightFund Merger) - taking a genius pill would only upgrade to mere incompetence

Thankfully I wasn't flying this weekend to see the latest catastrophe first hand, but I've seen my share this year. After last weekend, I feel sure there must be a better way, and I'm sure some of you this weekend feel the same. Its funny the other airlines operating in the snow don't have the same problems?

last weekend - I had a trip from NYC to Zurich, and instead of doing something logical I decided to use US - PHL-FRA-ZRH, and paid extra so I could (try to) use my transatlantic upgrades. As I was on a B fare I already had a business class seat for the return flight.

My LH connecting flight from ZRH was due in 2:15 before the US flight departed, thus I thought I had plenty of time. However, due to high winds one of the runways in FRA was closed, and traffic was backed up. My flight didn't land until 40 minutes prior to US' scheduled departure, and even running I didn't make it to the US gate until 10 minutes prior to scheduled departure.

Even though they knew I was coming, they had shut the door already. I think they should have waited even if they were going to depart on time, but due to the runway closure they sat at the gate for another hour! (arrived in PHL about an hour late)

I was rebooked on the LH flight which left 1 1/2 later, but for some reason they made me go to the ticket counter to get reticketed (by the same people who "helped" me at the gate). To get downstairs and then back up was an ordeal, 2 passport controls, two security checks, one clearing of customs - ridiculous.

When I finally got to the LH flight (in coach of course, in the cramped middle seats - because "LH doesn't upgrade") they too were an hour late departing, but they left the plane at the gate and the doors open for the entire hour - giving an example of how to run a real airline.

I'm tired of the incompetence and stupidity. Anybody must be better than this!

Actually US and UAL have a policy that doors will close 10 minutes prior to depature for an on time push back. I think Delta has the same thing but I am not sure about the other US majors.

You are correct though. If the plane is sitting at the gate why not leave the door open if there are PAX that have not made it to the flight yet.

This 10 minute doors will close has been a rule that has been out for a long time now and it is just not with US Airways alone. However, I have seen some GA leave the doors open if a flight is sitting. If you were in FRA I am assuming the GA's closed the doors and had to go handle another flight.

This is not stupidity of US Airways. This is there procedure that has been known for quite sometime now. I know UAL has signs at their gates as far as the time frames and they have 10 minutes prior to departure time doors will close.

Actually US and UAL have a policy that doors will close 10 minutes prior to depature for an on time push back. I think Delta has the same thing but I am not sure about the other US majors.

You are correct though. If the plane is sitting at the gate why not leave the door open if there are PAX that have not made it to the flight yet.

This 10 minute doors will close has been a rule that has been out for a long time now and it is just not with US Airways alone. However, I have seen some GA leave the doors open if a flight is sitting. If you were in FRA I am assuming the GA's closed the doors and had to go handle another flight.

This is not stupidity of US Airways. This is there procedure that has been known for quite sometime now. I know UAL has signs at their gates as far as the time frames and they have 10 minutes prior to departure time doors will close.


yes, you are so right, the two airlines you referenced have such a fine history of excellent operations, this policy must not be stupid.

Closing the doors ten minutes before scheduled departure and then sitting there for an hour is assinine, period. Leaving behind an international connecting pax (CP at that) is always stupid as well.

And if you read my post, the gate agents went to the ticket counter, not another gate. There are not a lot of flights that leave from the ticket counter!

Then call or write CA with a complaint. If they were going back to the ticket counter they might be getting ready to do another flight. (I think US only has 2 flights a day from FRA).

Just be happy you made it home. You could be sitting at the airport at FRA like so many passengers are still not with their families.

Once the doors are closed they are closed. I have only had one incident where they reopned the door for me only because I found the GA.

Still policy is policy. Even though I do agree with you about the gate being closed. Just because you are CP (I am CP as well) does not mean they are going to hold the door for you. When a flight is closed it is closed.

Like I said...be happy you made it home. Things could be much worse for you.

T

I'm not at all a fan of the t-10 minute door closing policy either unless they can see in their computer that all ckin pax are boarded and then in that case I don't have a problem with it. Departure time is departure time, and not 10 minutes before. I for one 99.9% of the time prefer to board the plane at the last second. Its even best if say I board and they are pushing it back even before I sit down. I don't get any thrill of sitting in the plane for 20-30 minutes before it departs. Other than baggage I never understood why people like to pre-board or board first. Even if you have a drink you can have it during the push back process and finish it before take off.

I would have been very upset to be stuck in the middle seat of a transatl flight because of your situation. I think they should have offered you the LH flight, or also offered you a hotel + US flight the next day probably in Envoy class. Or just put you in business on LH, or called a friend at LH to unofficially upgrade you. Did you say you are CP?

And if you don't think intl random upgrades are done, I just ran in to the most random of friends, and they told me if I ever fly one certain big intl airlines to call them and they will call friend of friend and upgrade it to biz class even over the pond! So so much for upgrades being so exclusive if like a friend of a friend can upgrade a friend with relative ease.

Even if you have a drink you can have it during the push back process and finish it before take off.

What is this pre-flight drink of which you speak? Does US still offer those?

On UA, they know if I'm going to make it, and they have always kept the door open - closing it behind me if I am the last one on.

What is this pre-flight drink of which you speak? Does US still offer those?


I get them on almost all of my flights on U.

Then call or write CA with a complaint. If they were going back to the ticket counter they might be getting ready to do another flight. (I think US only has 2 flights a day from FRA).

Just be happy you made it home. You could be sitting at the airport at FRA like so many passengers are still not with their families.

Once the doors are closed they are closed. I have only had one incident where they reopned the door for me only because I found the GA.

Still policy is policy. Even though I do agree with you about the gate being closed. Just because you are CP (I am CP as well) does not mean they are going to hold the door for you. When a flight is closed it is closed.

Like I said...be happy you made it home. Things could be much worse for you.

T

Of course I sent a complaint letter, I'm sending it to the DOT too. I am sure it has wound up in a huge pile though. I've found that the responses are canned now, an "I'm sorry if you feel you were inconvenienced" type of semi-apology.

And I did find the GA too, only they didn't open the doors, even though it wasn't departure time. (and the plane sat for another hour).

As for "policy being policy", calling it a policy doesn't mean it makes sense. You'd think they would revisit this old Gangwal policy, or maybe they are still using it to justify his 8 figure severance payment? A connecting airline shouldn't have arbitrary rules like this, it serves no purpose when it takes 15 seconds to close the door, and only hurts connecting pax.

And yes, I'm glad to have made it home, as should everybody who embraces folly and books US (contract of carriage notwithstanding)

Since you fly so many miles a year, that must make you an expert on airline operations, huh?

Frequently at European airports aircraft must "depart" to join the queue for their slot. Having the door shut and being ready to go is a qualification. Holding for you just a few minutes could have delayed them even further.

You missed your flight. You ended up getting to your destination ninety minutes later and in the class of service you were ticketed. What's the big deal? You're clearly still alive to tell the tale. Get over yourself.

You don't know what the agents knew. You don't know why the airplane sat there. Why reopen the door for just one passenger? Do you understand how much paperwork that causes?

Since you fly so many miles a year, that must make you an expert on airline operations, huh?

Frequently at European airports aircraft must "depart" to join the queue for their slot. Having the door shut and being ready to go is a qualification. Holding for you just a few minutes could have delayed them even further.

You missed your flight. You ended up getting to your destination ninety minutes later and in the class of service you were ticketed. What's the big deal? You're clearly still alive to tell the tale. Get over yourself.

You don't know what the agents knew. You don't know why the airplane sat there. Why reopen the door for just one passenger? Do you understand how much paperwork that causes?

AMEN ^

Why reopen the door for just one passenger? Do you understand how much paperwork that causes?

I think it causes bigger headaches than more people realize. Once the doors are closed I believe the cabin is then considered "sterile" - all counts have been completed and match up 100% with the manifests that they have printed. Re-opening the door I believe requires some type of intervention from the supervising agent at the gate as its their responsibility for the plane up until the door gets closed. Hence when they're waiting for people, they leave the door open.

Also for accountability I believe that the door closing is also a measured statistic just like pushback from the gate and takeoff/arrival. The takeoff/arrival is the biggie but I believe the gate agents get measured upon door closures.

-JC

I think it causes bigger headaches than more people realize.

So when the doors are closed, and the plane is still sitting at the gate - FOR A FRIGGIN HOUR - I guess the FA's have better things to do with their time - like scratching their butts, rather than fill out the paperwork or what-ever is entailed with opening the door for a CP who's standing at the gate looking at his plane through the window...

Or maybe the FA's are gabbing about how they're gonna call in sick during Christmas...

I don't think it's the FAs call, nor do I think it's fair to blame the FAs. Rather, it's up to the pilots and Gate Agents to decide (and possibly other ground staff, especially on a transatlantic flight) whether or not to open the aircraft back up and go through the paperwork again. Also, I've been on transatlantic flights where they have closed the door, and advised that they were waiting for their slot, which might be as long as an hour wait, but that they were trying to get an earlier slot - and they got it. So, perhaps the pilots were trying to get an earlier slot, and there was no guarantee that they'd be stuck there for an hour.

So when the doors are closed, and the plane is still sitting at the gate - FOR A FRIGGIN HOUR - I guess the FA's have better things to do with their time - like scratching their butts, rather than fill out the paperwork or what-ever is entailed with opening the door for a CP who's standing at the gate looking at his plane through the window...

Or maybe the FA's are gabbing about how they're gonna call in sick during Christmas...

Flight attendant paperwork has nothing to do with it.
It's pilot paperwork that has already been reentered, gate paperwork, flight has already been closed in the computer and it's in the hands of whoever is at dispatch in the U.S. (I believe it is in Pittsburgh for US Airways). There's also security and customs sign offs among others.

Much less headache for everybody (including all the passengers who got there on time) to just get one person to their destination 90 minutes late and in the class of service they purchased.

Since you fly so many miles a year, that must make you an expert on airline operations, huh?

Frequently at European airports aircraft must "depart" to join the queue for their slot. Having the door shut and being ready to go is a qualification. Holding for you just a few minutes could have delayed them even further.

You missed your flight. You ended up getting to your destination ninety minutes later and in the class of service you were ticketed. What's the big deal? You're clearly still alive to tell the tale. Get over yourself.

You don't know what the agents knew. You don't know why the airplane sat there. Why reopen the door for just one passenger? Do you understand how much paperwork that causes?


But I do know significantly more about it than you, regardless of your self-professed importance. I have worked at two airlines that are vastly more successful than US, so in fact I do know airline operations.

The point is not that they didn't open the door (although they should have), but that they closed it in the first place - when they knew I was coming, would be there before the flight was scheduled to depart (and long before it actually departed), and yes, that I was a CP.

I gave the LH example of leaving the doors open because they knew they wouldn't get an earlier slot out (and somehow I might imagine that LH has more pull in FRA than US, but I don't know), and thus left the doors open.

And I do know why they sat there, because I had already experienced the runway closure on my way in, that's why I was late originally.

If adding people to the paperwork is such a problem, maybe they should just fly empty or cancel the flights - oh wait, isn't that what they are doing now? I guess you're in charge of the airline now, huh? And if another metric they measure is closing the door early (which it isn't, but who's arguing?), why not close it 2 hours early and get a gold star instead of the check mark for closing it 10 minutes early when you still have pax on the way? After all, we are in business to get check marks, not carry pax, right?

But I do know significantly more about it than you, regardless of your self-professed importance. I have worked at two airlines that are vastly more successful than US, so in fact I do know airline operations.



Are they mind readers? Do they really know you're going to be there? Somebody call ahead and tell them as such?

Obviously your time at the airlines didn't teach you much. Messing up a flight's departure on account of just one person, CP or not, when they can easily be otherwise accommodated is bad operations, plain and simple.

Who I feel the sorriest for is the poor folks who had to sit next to you in your middle seat on Lufthansa.